That time, when 100% is really a 95%? A vent.

[Alice]

I had a college class that was graded on a curve so there were only so many A's , B's, C's etc.  It made everyone in the class behave in an extremely ugly manner because to help your neighbor meant that they might snag one of the higher grades.  As far as I know, I was the only one who did not participate in that jockeying for position.  I had people cry in relief that I would let them copy my notes after they had missed a class due to illness.  I did get an A in the class. 

 

Edited because I really shouldn't try to post when I'm drugged.  ;)  (By a doctor!)

 

 

Medical school was like this. It was terrible, very cutthroat. 

[frugalmamatx]

Is this a college class? If so I'd take printouts / screen shots of tests, recorded grades, etc and see the dean on the department. 

 

I had a professor try to do this to me in college - my final grade as she reported it was a 84 {B}. I double checked all my papers and it should have averaged out to a 96 {A+}. I talked to the dean, the dean talked to the professor and she corrected it. I was on a academic scholarship where I had to keep a 3.5 average, and I needed that A!

[LisaKinVA]

Yet the teacher can curve at the end, and that is not unethical.

 

And who knows what is happening to the data? Could be a software problem with the host server.

B

Has the student attended office hours and inquired?

Usually, software programs would affect more than one teacher. She and my son have 6 teachers at the school between them, but this is the only course affected.

 

Curving is usually done to bring low grades up. The bar for the high grade is usually set by actual performance in the class. Even with a curve, it is usually possible to work harder, study, etc.to improve one's grade. A mathematical curve will not bring one person's 100% down to a 95%, while keeping another's at 100%

 

In an incredibly easy class, where the lowest score was still very high, where an 85 would be considered failing on a curve, I do believe there would be a huge outcry.(Not a reference to exams which actually require passing scores of 80, 85, 90%, which are usually licensing exams in specialized fields).

 

In my lifetime, I have had mostly good teachers. A few were incredible teachers, and a few were horrible. The fact that some were horrible didn't taint my opinion of the rest.

 

My daughter having this experience has been a teachable moment. We've discussed what she could or should do in response, discussed the actual impact. The grade will not make any difference long term. It won't impact her GPA or affect her ability to get into college. If it did, instead of venting, I would have been tracking things, marching down to the office with screenshots in hand.

 

My daughter is not perfect. She has a lot to learn. She enjoys learning. The teacher in question does not dislike my daughter on a personal level. He is not bullying her, or causing ant type of psychological damage. This is how he chooses to grade. He doesn't believe in 100% as a final grade.

 

My vent is not about any of that. Nor is it a broad condemnation of the teaching profession.

 

It is about one teacher. It's about an arbitrary grading policy of this one teacher. It's about the manner of implementation the teacher is using to achieve his desired outcome. I'm allowed to agree with my kid, find it annoying and irrational. I'm even allowed to agree with her that it's just plain wrong, and sends the exact opposite message than what he envisions. I'm not leading a school wide protest, or launching a petition drive to get the guy fired.

 

There are numerous ways a teacher can encourage hard work, and create an objective grading system that would still make it essentially impossible for a student to earn 100% as a final grade. There have been numerous examples from many people.

 

This is not one of them.

[LisaKinVA]

Is this a college class? If so I'd take printouts / screen shots of tests, recorded grades, etc and see the dean on the department.

 

I had a professor try to do this to me in college - my final grade as she reported it was a 84 {B}. I double checked all my papers and it should have averaged out to a 96 {A+}. I talked to the dean, the dean talked to the professor and she corrected it. I was on a academic scholarship where I had to keep a 3.5 average, and I needed that A!

Thank the good Lord, no. Not even close. This is just a middle school class. This is her first year with outside teachers. She is learning a lot, and we've had lots of good laughs and a couple of very thoughtful discussions. Like you and I, there may come a time when she has to do more than roll her eyes and grumble. Everything doesn't merit going to the mat

[Jean in Newcastle]

Wait.  This is just for middle school?  Those grades don't even count on a transcript. 

[LisaKinVA]

Wait.  This is just for middle school?  Those grades don't even count on a transcript. 

 

yes, just middle school I've said this repeatedly ;)  

 

Annoying, frustrating, irritating -- but totally not counting for anything permanent.

 

Hence the vent, but nothing more than grumbling, sardonic laughter, rolling eyes, teachable moment, not anything to get into a knock-down, drag out, demand a meeting with the principal and the teacher kind of thing.  

 

Now, when her PE teacher was doing things which seemed to encourage eating disorders, and made them part of the grading process (BMI, encouraging ever-lower fat percentages as being a goal -- we're talking below 18% for a teen age girl), that's different. That's a health issue.  I did bring that up, expressed my concern -- especially when applied to a girl who had stopped eating altogether in the past.  I did get THAT out of the grade calculation.

 

Just a vent.

 

I get passionate about some things, I know, and that can make me sound more intense and over the top than I really am over a situation.  

[kiwik]

It is very strange.  Like Laura Corin I am not used to the concept of getting 100% (except for something like a lab quiz - identifying parts of plants etc).  But if you get 100% and it there on your paper it seems unfair to reduce it especially in retrospect.  I also find the idea of extra credit or extra answers unethical.  Do people who get all the non-optional questions get 100% or is that reserved for those who do the extra questions?  In which case they aren't really optional.  And if you get 100% for doing the compulsory questions do you get more than 100% if you get the optional right? In which case are they truly any more optional than any other questions?  What if you get the optional questions right and others wrong?  My head is spinning but it sounds like the "pick up litter for NZCEA credit' scandal we had a few years back.

 

And no it is the principle not whether it will have long tern effect.  Playing games with students is a power trip not teaching.

[MaeFlowers]

I was under the impression that some teachers do this especially at the the beginning so by the end of the year they can prove their inputs contributed to the improvement of the student.

DS had a teacher who did this in first grade. It had nothing to do with the students, it was about her trying to make herself look good.

 

He came home one day frustrated and mad. He got everything right, even the extra credit, on his spelling test. After this happened week after week, he gave up. His response was, "why bother?". It completely demotivated him.

 

He went into first grade loving school and learning. At the end of the year, he hated it. I blame her. I'm still fighting the effects.

[LisaKinVA]

If you want a JAWM, kindly state so in the title.

 

Ftr, I am not taking the teacher's side. I am in an area that runs as described in Jay Matthews book Class Struggle. My kids have experienced far worse grading ... every bit of it designed to award predetermined winners and deny the existance of those who arent on the list. My advice to you, as a result of our experience, is to take any important exams such as the SAT, at a tamper proof location. Find out who the friends of this teacher are, and dont take any classes from them unless a P/F option exists.

 

I'm a former debater/debate coach...don't mind discussions, and I do tend to look at "even if" scenarios.  I'm not taking disagreement personally (I hope it doesn't come across that way), but I am seeking to explain why there doesn't seem to be a justification for it.  Had the grading situation been of greater importance (impacted a scholarship, for example), I'd probably be a bit more thin-skinned.

 

I'm very sorry for what your kids have experienced..  It is something both I (and my children) need to be more aware of moving forward.  I did ask about teachers/classes/experiences for next year, because of some things we experienced this year.  I certainly don't want my son to take AP English with an instructor who doesn't like homeschoolers, or doesn't believe kids should receive an A, or who is known to monkey around with grades any more than I want my kids to take a class with the handsy-instructor who gives all of the kids the creeps, because he's always touching them (not in inappropriate areas, but just seems off). Thankfully, we have a choice in what classes we take.  This teacher particular also is transferring out this year as well.

 

It's been a good exercise to go through various reasons and scenarios where this can happen.  Both as a point of seeking understanding, and as a means to open up dialogue with my daughter about ways to approach situations which may be similar in the future -- and think about how/when she should deal with them (either on her own, or seeking extra help).

[LisaKinVA]

It is very strange.  Like Laura Corin I am not used to the concept of getting 100% (except for something like a lab quiz - identifying parts of plants etc).  But if you get 100% and it there on your paper it seems unfair to reduce it especially in retrospect.  I also find the idea of extra credit or extra answers unethical.  Do people who get all the non-optional questions get 100% or is that reserved for those who do the extra questions?  In which case they aren't really optional.  And if you get 100% for doing the compulsory questions do you get more than 100% if you get the optional right? In which case are they truly any more optional than any other questions?  What if you get the optional questions right and others wrong?  My head is spinning but it sounds like the "pick up litter for NZCEA credit' scandal we had a few years back.

 

And no it is the principle not whether it will have long tern effect.  Playing games with students is a power trip not teaching.

 

Extra credit is usually given for going above and beyond, it can be questions (challenge questions, which weren't necessarily taught, but were part of the material covered, projects, or extra components to projects).  Extra credit is usually seen as a way to raise a grade (for example, say you didn't read required material and had a pop quiz, and got a zero on the quiz -- extra credit could be used as a way to offset that bad grade).  

 

The testing portion is based upon a certain number of questions.  The extra credit are separate.  They count for you if you get them right, but don't count against you if you get them wrong.  Similarly, extra credit projects/assignments are optional.  Yes, it is possible to accrue more points than necessary to earn a 100% in the extra credit world.  

 

IME, the two people who usually take extra credit assignments are already "A" and "B" students.  They may do the assignments for fun (I did), or because they had one poor grade for whatever reason and were trying to improve their grade.  Extra Credit is also usually sought out from parents with kids who have not turned in homework or done well on tests who are on the verge of a D or even an F as a way of avoiding summer school or repeating a course.  Kids who are C, D, or F students who do not have parents who are involved do not usually seek extra credit on their own (there are some -- who are otherwise high achieving/hard working students, but are struggling with one subject area -- however those usually don't wait until the last minute and are usually seeking extra help/tutoring/additional projects to improve right away)

 

In the situations you and Laura are discussing, what would normally be a 100% here, with optional extra credit would probably be considered a "C" or a "B" there, with the extra credit portion really being what is necessary to earn an "A" -- but that extra credit wouldn't be detailed on a sheet, it would be incumbent upon the student to seek out additional learning opportunities by meeting with their instructor, and/or doing their own independent work.  I can see why the differences would make your head spin!

[InParadisum]

My English professor for a dual-credit course did this to us. I absolutely wanted to go bezerk. Our class president eventually wrote her a 10 page letter about how unethical it was and we all signed it. During second semester she loosened up on her policy.