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Posted (edited)

From everything I've read about IFY, it seems like it's geared toward kids who can think more logically about interactions. "If I do this, my peer will feel this way about me...This is the proper way to act/talk in this particular situation..." So it seems more geared toward kids on the spectrum than toward kids with ADHD and social difficulties, whose brains are more all over the place. My daughter is so in the moment, she just reacts and doesn't ever think about how she comes across (often seeming very bossy), and has no idea why kids feel the way they do about her.

 

Could IFY help this kind of personality? They do say the curriculum is helpful for ADHD kids as well, but I have to wonder if that's only because they know many kids with ADHD have the same sort of social difficulties (although not all of the areas they cover, the Thinking With Your Eyes isn't a problem for us, for example) and so try to teach the skills in the same way. I think everything they teach is incredibly valuable, these are all things I want DD to learn, I just don't know if she's actually going to be able to learn any of it just by reading books and playing games with me...And I want to get more of a sense of that before I plunk down $100+. Any thoughts?

Edited by Anna's Mom
  • Like 1
Posted (edited)

I have it.

 

It does not assume that much logical thinking.

 

A thing you might like: It uses thought bubbles to show what kids are thinking. So it will show thought bubbles over kids' heads to show "one kid is thinking about this, one kid is thinking about that."

 

It is more that it is concrete than it is logical.

 

If you are looking for a concrete way to even bring up, explain, discuss, etc. that is what I think it could be good for.

 

If you have the way to discuss it with her, already, and you are looking more for putting it into practice, then I don't know if it would be helpful.

 

I like it, but I think it would depend on what your goals are.

 

If you do reviews afterward of "what happened" and she has no idea that another child didn't want to do what she wanted to do, maybe it would help.

 

If she knows in general but is not applying it, I think it is different. But still might be a way to bring it up. But maybe not better than other ways to bring it up.

 

If you read general children's books where there are friendship dilemmas, can she follow along with those and explain the character's motivations and points of view? Bc my son where I like IFY really can't. Or, if is very basic.

 

Where with my daughter, we can read those Helen Lester/Lynn Munsinger books, Berenstein Bears, Franklin the turtle, etc., and she is following all of it, and it is clicking with her. If you could use those kinds of books, I don't think there would be a need to get IFY.

Edited by Lecka
  • Like 3
Posted (edited)

One, you still have the meds option to help with the impulsivity.

 

Two, the materials are meant for ANYONE with a "social learning disability," irrespective of their DSM label.  So ADHD, NVLD, ASD, doesn't matter.

 

Three, it's not developmentally appropriate to make the dc *accountable* for those concepts till they're more like 3rd grade.  So right now you have, what, a K5/1st grader?  The IFY materials will *introduce* the concepts and you will help them apply them.

 

Four, nothing happens if you're not consistent and carrying it over throughout the day (while you play, etc.).

 

Five, someone who has done this with other kids will be kick butt better at helping you apply it.  Like, on the one hand YES you can read the books and do it yourself.  On the other hand, I find SO helpful the phrasing and the way the behaviorist applies things when she does it with him.  So for us it works better for HER to teach the lessons and ME to copy how she does things.   :D

 

So YES you want IFY!!!!  It's GREAT, GREAT, GREAT!!!  But for us, doing it with some professional help has been better.  

 

Ok, I'll explain a scenario.  Book 1 of IFY explores "people have feelings."  So then during the week, the tutor, the behaviorist, everyone is reinforcing noticing the concept.  Not badgering, not saying you're bad, just mentioning their OWN feelings and likes.  IFY gives tiers for levels of proficiency with each concept, so for us I see him working through those thanks to this carryover.  So to get to that real epiphany with the concept, where it has gone from that initial noticing of some people somewhere have feelings or likes to right in front of me and I'm going to choose to change my behavior, that's WEEKS of mulling and maturing and gelling, kwim?  Weeks of them applying it in scenarios (play, school work, etc.) Not instantaneous, not one lesson.  But it HAPPENS.  It just happens over time.

 

You won't know how much she COULD control with improved social thinking until you improve the social thinking.  I know my ds is ADHD enough to give almost anyone a run for their money, and he is calming down.  He's NOTICEABLY calmer now than he was a month or two ago.  Because he COULD have been making better choices.  It wasn't ALL his body.

 

And, fwiw, the FIRST THING the behaviorist said to Robbie when he was having challenging behaviors when she first came to visit was "are you making a good choice?"  I remember thinking hello, he can't make a choice he has all these labels!  But she DIDN'T SEE HIM THAT WAY.  She saw him as someone who could make better choices if he understood better.  It's really phenomenal and so RIGHT.  We don't want them to be VICTIMS of their bodies and their neurologies.  We're not forcing them to understand things they're not ready for or punishing.  We're just giving them tools to make better choices and mature.  

Edited by OhElizabeth
  • Like 2
Posted (edited)

I really would not overthink whether you need IFY or not.  It's DECEPTIVELY SIMPLE.  Odds are she'd benefit from it.  But you could find a therapist who can do it with her and let them provide.  I just think if she didn't need it we wouldn't be having this discussion, kwim?

 

The goal is to make things explicit that are maybe obvious to other people.  Yes there is a range of challenges with social thinking and theory of mind.  It's not like it's just yes/no, have issues or don't.  We're just going to make it more EXPLICIT.  

 

What happens with my ds is the behavior improves on its own.  All we do is teach and review the books.  We don't nag at all.  We apply during the day saying what we're feeling (again, to make things more obvious, more explicit), but we're not nagging or threatening.  He sort of naturally begins making better choices as it clicks in his brain.

Edited by OhElizabeth
  • Like 1
Posted

Eh, I do really like IFY.

 

But there is no problem with my other kids having those kinds of discussions pretty easily around other little kid books where there is a small conflict of some kind and then some kind of resolution.

 

If there is no particular issue with "how do you think so-and-so feels" or "do you think that was a good way to handle it" or "what if another way to respond" then I don't think IFY is a better way to do that. I think it is also a good way, but not better if you can read Arthur or something.

 

That is just my take on it.

 

I do really like IFY, but I can see not getting so much out of it. Or, I can see being able to do the same things with library books, if the child can do it with library books.

  • Like 1
Posted

Thank you, this is helpful. Lecka, yes she does understand what characters in books are thinking and why, we've been working on and talking about that from an early age when we read, and she's pretty good at putting herself in the heads of various characters. It's just actually applying that knowledge in real life that's a problem. When I see her with peers, I'll sometimes talk with her after (or during, if there's an issue) and she just blocks me out, she doesn't even want to hear it. I think she must take it as a criticism, even though I never phrase it that way, and she's overly sensitive to any suggestion that she's not doing something in the best way. So this has been our struggle, I know the best way to help her would be to work with her on analyzing real-life situations, but she's just not willing to work like that. She SO desperately wants to be liked, but isn't willing to accept that there are better ways to go about it.

 

OhE, I love the "Are you making a good choice" cue, I'm going to use that! I could probably say it 50 times a day...We've been doing a social thinking group (which costs more for one 45 minute session than the entire IFY bundle. Bah!) Parents aren't allowed in on the groups, unfortunately, so I don't really know more than the SLP tells me at the end of each session. So far it hasn't seemed to address any of the things that are really issues for DD, but they do use Winner, and I hope for all that money it will do at least some good. But because I've started feeling discouraged by the little the SLP writes about what they've done, and how little of what they work on seems to apply to her vs. others in the group, I'm looking for ways to supplement that.

Posted

Eh, I do really like IFY.

 

But there is no problem with my other kids having those kinds of discussions pretty easily around other little kid books where there is a small conflict of some kind and then some kind of resolution.

 

If there is no particular issue with "how do you think so-and-so feels" or "do you think that was a good way to handle it" or "what if another way to respond" then I don't think IFY is a better way to do that. I think it is also a good way, but not better if you can read Arthur or something.

 

That is just my take on it.

 

I do really like IFY, but I can see not getting so much out of it. Or, I can see being able to do the same things with library books, if the child can do it with library books.

 

I guess I was hoping the activities that tie in with the books would reinforce the topics, no? And have them become more innate within kids because they've had some sort of practice. (I don't have much of an idea what those activities are, that was just my guess.) So I was hoping it was broader than just talking about the concepts, as we do when reading.

Posted

The red Social Thinking book goes through ALL the skills, and yes it has games to let them practice concepts.

 

When I read the way you describe how you talk with her, to me it sounds very stressful, confrontational, corrective.  The behaviorist never works like that.  It's more like saying something and letting him see if he can figure it out.  

 

I would not expect any social thinking instruction to go quickly.  I think the group you've found is over-priced.  Around here I could hire a BCBA in the big city for that price per hour, and I'd get private.  Our behaviorist (small town) is HALF that.  So I'd put your ear to the ground.  I mean, think about the irony.  You're saying you think a behaviorist is overkill because they're for autism, but then you get an SLP (who maybe has less experience) doing it for a lot more money!  At least how that would be here.  And yes, we have SLPs doing behavior and social skills groups like that.

 

I think if she's going to group and they aren't giving you the parent pages to read and carry over at home, that it's going to be VERY SLOW going.  Some of the Winner materials have parent pages they're supposed to print.  The behaviorist discusses what they worked on, even if I was observing for part of it.  And I find that if the tutor reviews the material another 2-3 times, he's going to make more progress than if it's just the once from the behaviorist.  I really think you need that team effort.

 

Maybe check what your options would be?  My ds is so bright, he can fake out a pragmatics test.  That's why I put no stock in oh he can take perspectives in x book.  My ds can do that.  But when rubber meets the road, it's not there.  But the concepts hadn't been made explicit to him.

Posted

$118 for 45 minutes. Individual is $145. :closedeyes:

 

This is the cost of desperation, I guess.

 

So then what if you look for a different provider like a BCBA or behaviorist who isn't quite BCBA?  Or your insurance is paying this?  At that close a price, I would go for individual and I would demand that you be in there.  Our behaviorist has never said I can't be there, mercy.  If this chick is actually doing a GOOD JOB, then there would be a ton you could LEARN by observing!  I observe all my ds' sessions with ANY provider.  I'm constantly trying to imitate them and stretch and improve.  I don't sit in on the whole tutoring, but I peek in even there and am around when they're working on transitions, etc.  

 

Therapy is so frustrating.  You could just be in an expensive area.  Or you could be taken for a ride.  She could be great or she could be less than stellar.  So I guess look for options, try to observe, etc.  But at the VERY LEAST I would ask what book she's using and figure out if she's supposed to be doing parent pages.  IFY has parent pages.  I don't know about the red book (Social Thinking).  The red book might be a really good step for her, btw.  It might be that IFY would not be what she needs.  In our case it's a simple concept applied artfully by the therapists to the situations as they work with him.  So they'll play together and highlight the concepts.  Never correctively, just more bringing it up to reinforce and help him notice.  But you could look at Social Detective or Social Thinking, sure.  In general though, Winner warned that people's tendency is to move TOO FAST through the concepts, without letting them gel to the deepest level of applications in the charts.  It's all in there in IFY, each level for each skill.  I see my ds work through those levels as the material is reviewed and extended, so it's pretty fascinating. 

Posted

Believe me, I've looked around. This is the only place within driving distance, and even this is over 45 minutes each way. I think that's why they can price themselves so high, it makes it unreachable for many, but they don't care. Many (like us) are so desperate for help that we'll make the sacrifices just in the hopes it might work.

Posted

Sorry, I XPosted. You're making me realize I really do need to expect more from the SLP, and I'd love to sit in on the groups to see what she's doing (but don't know if the other parents would allow it.) What I get from her is an image that shows Body and Mind in the Group, and she'll say, "There were several times I needed to remind Anna to keep her body and mind in the group, because she was distracted by the toys. By the end of our session she was more consistently able to." But have you actually taught her anything??? If I tell her to sit still enough times, or if she's already checked out everything in the room, then she's going to sit still...

 

I don't know, I think the BEST way to learn social skills is through feedback while actually with peers, which is what I'm hoping to get from this group. I just don't have a good enough feel to know if that's happening.

 

 

The red Social Thinking book goes through ALL the skills, and yes it has games to let them practice concepts.

 

When I read the way you describe how you talk with her, to me it sounds very stressful, confrontational, corrective.  The behaviorist never works like that.  It's more like saying something and letting him see if he can figure it out.  

 

 

I think that's a good point. I never talk to her in a wagging finger way, but I do talk about what she could have done better. I need to find better ways to discuss it.

Posted

Coincidentally, as I was typing the last comment out I got an email about last Friday's session. It sounds like the SLP's reasonably in tune to what she needs, I'm actually pretty satisfied with the things they did:

"On Friday, Anna engaged in "Share Time," listened and discussed the Can You Tell How Someone Feels? book, and played a hide & seek/scavenger hunt game. During these activities, Anna demonstrated use of the following concepts: Whole Body Listening, Body and Brain in the Group, Following the Group Plan, and Thinking with Your Eyes with minimal visual reminders (body and brain visual pictures) and moderate verbal reinforcers (e.g., I like the way that you are  ____.). With few verbal prompts (e.g., choices, question starters), Anna asked appropriate and relevant follow-up questions and engaged in conversation with her new peer. Additionally, she identified basic emotions displayed in the book and inferred why the character was feeling that emotion in the pictured situation. She required moderate guidance to identify visual clues (e.g., facial expression, body language) for these emotions. Given moderate prompting, Anna generated what she could say or do to help the character feel happier. During the hide and seek game, Anna did a great job sharing ideas with her peers using questions such as, "How about we look ____?" or "Maybe we can look ____?," given few verbal reminders. While she initially responded to these prompts and actively engaged in share time and story time, Anna became silly during less structured activities (e.g., hiding under the table, making silly sounds). When her new peer put her hands over her ears and exclaimed, "It's too loud," Anna continued to be silly; however, when instructed to freeze and look at her new peer, she responded well to this redirection, labeled her peer's emotion, and expressed how her voice needed to change. While she responded well to these prompts, she required repeated instruction during real-time situations. We will continue to work on identifying and responding appropriately to visual clues in the environment/situation. 

 
Although she became silly at the end of group, Anna did a wonderful job welcoming her new peer to the group. She appeared to make attempts to make her peers laugh with silliness, so while her intentions were appropriate to the situation, she failed to recognize the rules of group and my feelings about her silliness. As a result, we will review the rules of group and discuss ways to make others happy and comfortable in our next group to reinforce her situational awareness."
Posted (edited)

It sounds like the SLP has a very long-term view of what needs to happen. Just being able to engage with the teacher and work with the therapist and not be running off is an important goal, yes! Right now your dd is struggling to function in the group because there are toys.  So you're paying a very high amount, and she's still in a high distraction environment, in a situation where they can't make demands, eliminate distractions, and get connected with her.  

Edited by OhElizabeth
  • Like 1
Posted (edited)

 

Coincidentally, as I was typing the last comment out I got an email about last Friday's session. It sounds like the SLP's reasonably in tune to what she needs, I'm actually pretty satisfied with the things they did:

 

"On Friday, Anna engaged in "Share Time," listened and discussed the Can You Tell How Someone Feels? book, and played a hide & seek/scavenger hunt game. During these activities, Anna demonstrated use of the following concepts: Whole Body Listening, Body and Brain in the Group, Following the Group Plan, and Thinking with Your Eyes with minimal visual reminders (body and brain visual pictures) and moderate verbal reinforcers (e.g., I like the way that you are  ____.). With few verbal prompts (e.g., choices, question starters), Anna asked appropriate and relevant follow-up questions and engaged in conversation with her new peer. Additionally, she identified basic emotions displayed in the book and inferred why the character was feeling that emotion in the pictured situation. She required moderate guidance to identify visual clues (e.g., facial expression, body language) for these emotions. Given moderate prompting, Anna generated what she could say or do to help the character feel happier. During the hide and seek game, Anna did a great job sharing ideas with her peers using questions such as, "How about we look ____?" or "Maybe we can look ____?," given few verbal reminders. While she initially responded to these prompts and actively engaged in share time and story time, Anna became silly during less structured activities (e.g., hiding under the table, making silly sounds). When her new peer put her hands over her ears and exclaimed, "It's too loud," Anna continued to be silly; however, when instructed to freeze and look at her new peer, she responded well to this redirection, labeled her peer's emotion, and expressed how her voice needed to change. While she responded well to these prompts, she required repeated instruction during real-time situations. We will continue to work on identifying and responding appropriately to visual clues in the environment/situation. 

 
Although she became silly at the end of group, Anna did a wonderful job welcoming her new peer to the group. She appeared to make attempts to make her peers laugh with silliness, so while her intentions were appropriate to the situation, she failed to recognize the rules of group and my feelings about her silliness. As a result, we will review the rules of group and discuss ways to make others happy and comfortable in our next group to reinforce her situational awareness."

 

 

Now see that sounds really good!  Early Social Behavior Books Can You Tell How Someone Feels? By Nita Everly  She's using this book sold by Linguisystems.  I haven't seen it, but it seems to be roughly equivalent to what IFY is trying to do.  It seems like the SLP gets the *concepts* she's trying to teach and how they show up.

 

I think you might ask her how you can review material or carry it over at home better.  IFY comes with books, music, making it easy to review.  If you don't have these books, can you reinforce other ways?  With kiddie literature?  I think it's easier to get carryover when you're reviewing.  She's giving you a LOT of information there that you could use to practice the skills.  I would literally do just what she did.  Like they played freeze to notice, so do that periodically throughout the day.  That would be easy!  She's working on facial expressions, so find some games to work on that.  She's noticing that dd gets over silly after a point and needs to modulate it down, so notice when that is happening and put words to it and talk about strategies.  She's using a rules dynamic, so you could talk about your rules at home, the rules of various places you go.  (not punitively but in more sort of a noticing kind of way)  She wants dd to practice sharing ideas using questions, so make situations where you can collaborate and prompt her to do that.  

 

Basically take whatever they're working on and do it MORE at home!  That will be rocket fuel.  Remember, you don't have to do this PERFECTLY for it to be worthwhile.  If you literally just worked on each of the things they worked on just a couple minutes each day, 3-4 days a week, she'd probably make noticeable progress.  The list of what that SLP is doing is good enough, I wouldn't fret it.  She's aware of the skills, keeping her engaged, challenging her.  If it's what you have access to and have coverage for, then I would work to reinforce it at home.  Now that you've seen the rubric and how the skills move from unaware to emergent to un-prompted, so can understand what that terminology means.  The SLP is using the right terminology and working on the right stuff.  It's just you were looking at it and not realizing how much you could carry it over at home!  I would totally do that.  Like make 30 minutes a day in your schedule where you just really intentionally do some of those things.  Or write out in list form what you're trying to do (practice noticing facial expressions, notice when silly and comment how you can see it and suggest a better choice, etc. etc. etc)  so that you can work on it in little bits.

 

This is a long-term process.

Edited by OhElizabeth
  • Like 1
Posted

Well what a nice change!  Now that we have more complete info, I'm really excited for you!  Honest, seeing that report, what the SLP is doing is really GOOD!!!  

 

So, no, I would not buy IFY in your situation.  I would use the written reports from the SLP to make a list of the things you can do at home to reinforce what they were working on in class.  

 

I think the reason she's not letting you in is because of the behavioral issues.  Probably if you were in there it would be harder to get control.  You could talk with her about going to individual, if you wanted.  It might be that she's wearing out and that's why she's getting silly.  It might be she's going to need some time.  How long has she been going to this?

 

So I would not buy IFY, no.  I would put your energy into reinforcing what they're working on in the sessions.  And I would do it naturalistically (while you play, etc.) not so much with books.  Use the rubric to see where each skill is (unaware to emergent to independent).

  • Like 1
Posted (edited)

Thanks, OhE, that makes a lot of sense. I'll ask the SLP as well whether she has more ideas for how I can reinforce all this at home. You would think for this money she'd be willing to lend us a book or two, to help me carry it through during the week, you know? I may ask for that as well, or at least for her suggestions on what I should be reading.

 

Anna's been doing this for 4 weeks, and this was the first week I felt like they really addressed and responded to her issues and behaviors, and like they're doing a little bit of tailoring. (I wish I could get some sort of feel for how long it might be before we see her internalizing this...I do realize it's a long process, but we're looking at $6,000 a year. The woman who recommended this group has a teenage ADHD son, who has been with them for 4 years so far! The idea of spending that much is giving me angina! But of course if I knew it would help her to have friends and be one of the keys to her happiness as she gets older, I'd do it without ever looking back.)

Edited by Anna's Mom
Posted

From the slp's e-mail, we personally are on more basic skills right now, so I do not know of IFY could be used that way, bc we don't use it that way. But that doesn't mean much, i just don't know.

 

The thing that jumps out at me from the e-mail is the prompt the slp gave.

 

She gave the prompt "freeze and look at your friend" or something along those lines, and it was effective.

 

So that prompt worked when the slp did it.

 

You are looking for "what can I do when I see things go poorly in peer interactions" so maybe you are looking for prompts you can give. Maybe this prompt would work if you did it. Maybe not, bc kids can be like that (taking things differently or more personally from parents).

 

I think it is something you can ask the slp about.

 

You could also ask more about visual cues and if there are any materials the slp uses for that that you might buy.

 

There is another social thinking product we are looking at for that, it is new and we have only seen samples, though. But we personally would start using them for basic emotions which it looks like your daughter maybe has mastered. But some materials can be used at multiple levels, too.

  • Like 1
Posted

You are being charged $100 an hour for a GROUP session???  

 

The semi-private dyad sessions for kids who aren't ready for the larger groups in my area run $98/child/session. So if my DD and your DS were at a similar level (for the sake of argument since IRL he'd be too verbal for her) and neither were ready for the regular 6? kid social skills group, then we'd each pay $98 per session. Ugh, but there's enough demand for it.

Posted (edited)

I really think if someone needs 4 years of that and is having slow progress it's because the parents aren't in the sessions or seeing enough to hear the wording and carry it over at home.  It really has to be done over and over, lots of carry over.  So if she's prompting a certain thing a certain way, then YOU want to make situations where that skill can happen and prompt it that way too!  

 

If she doesn't want you in there, then how about an ipad set up to video?  Or how about she has someone trained to come work at a lower pricepoint during the week?  Our ABA tutor is "only" $15 an hour.  It's a total bargain.  The behaviorist trains her and gives her the wording to deal with the challenging behaviors.  

 

You mainly need to see/hear/understand what is being done in those sessions so you can carry it over at home.  

 

That is why I gave up on another group, btw, because I realized it was leaving me too disconnected.  Maybe just talk with the SLP and say hey when you prompted that, how did you do that, what did you say...  If she's good, it's probably a pretty consistent thing she can whip out, a way she phrases things.  

 

So maybe just talk with her and ask her to explain how to do those things at home so you can carry them over.  I know there's such a god complex in therapy, mercy.  A lot of this stuff is idiotically simple if they'll just tell you what to say.  If that lady has 2 kids in that group, she's raking in like $250 an hour for this.  It's INSANE.  She can spend 10 minutes with you and explain stuff and explain how she worded it.  When you go, are you tired or do you have someone else in tow or are you distracted by your dd pulling to leave?  I'm just asking, because I know how that is.  I'm just thinking it could be she's trying to tell you these things and you're missing it because there's so much going on, kwim?

Edited by OhElizabeth
  • Like 1
Posted

The semi-private dyad sessions for kids who aren't ready for the larger groups in my area run $98/child/session. So if my DD and your DS were at a similar level (for the sake of argument since IRL he'd be too verbal for her) and neither were ready for the regular 6? kid social skills group, then we'd each pay $98 per session. Ugh, but there's enough demand for it.

 

Oy.  It must just be where I live.  

Posted

I think a lot of people get insurance reimbursement. I'm not sure my insurance would for my DD because they're already paying for 1:1 ABA and speech, but if they did, it would bring the per-cost session down to $29.40.

  • Like 1
Posted

Anna's actually in a triad, her and 2 other girls her age, so yes, the amount of money they're making is crazy. And they're a center, so they have several groups going at once...Because they're out of network (and don't take insurance) we'd need to meet our $6,500 OON deductible before they covered anything. We'll probably meet that next year if we're still doing this, because I think we'll see a p-doc (who also won't be covered) and get another neuropsych eval. But even then they only pay 50% of the amount over $6,500...Seriously, it makes me want to cry.

 

I wrote to the SLP yesterday, asking her to recommend things I could do at home to tie in, the wording I should use, and books I can read that explain what she's doing so I can carry it through. I'm finding myself a little upset that they're not doing this automatically, but I guess that's not their responsibility. (She really doesn't talk to parents at all at the end of the session, just writes up and emails the summary.)

 

At least I've saved $100 by bringing it up here first, I'm not shelling out money for IFY. :) At least not yet...The one thing I like about IFY is that if we had it, I'd actually have direct guidance and a push to do specific activities, somebody holding my hand. I may end up getting You are a Social Detective (much cheaper), just so I have the prompts go through the concepts at home in book form. I was looking awhile back at the "Should I or Shouldn't I" game awhile back as well...

Posted (edited)

The Should I/Shouldn't I game is more advanced.  She's not ready for it.

 

It's not going to *hurt* to do IFY.  It's good stuff.  I'm just saying she's actually doing a lot in those sessions if she would demonstrate to you how to carry it over at home.  I guess see how helpful she is.  And, you know, I would be pricing out a BCBA.  Like just call and see, kwim?  If a BCBA is the same price, maybe bring them over and chat and see.  They come to your home.  They're naturalistic, doing things in the environment.  You'd be able to watch them and see how they work with her.  Even just that initial free visit might be informative.  A behaviorist is all about teaching you to carry it over at home.  In our area, it would be the same price or less than what you're paying.

 

I think you're paying a lot for those sessions because she's doing those reports.  Is she giving you those every time?  Seriously, there's a LOT of info there, I look at that and I see 7+ things you could work on.  I would just list them out and do them.  And the things you don't understand, you would go hey, I see you played a freeze game, can you teach it to me?   :)  Remember, therapy is play and play is learning and we like to play.  It's not like this was some TORTURE session that your dd is like let me out, don't want to do that again!  She actually had FUN!  So when you figure out what they did and do it at home, you're just extending the fun.

 

I think the other reason she's not helping you apply at home more is because, for the most part, just being straight, parents DON'T want to do it at home.  They're busy or they don't want to learn or they're overwhelmed with other things or...  She just does NOT HAVE 50 parents walking up to her chewing her out for doing therapy but not sending home homework, kwim?  If she did, she'd be doing it!  She's not, and you're unusual.  But that doesn't mean you're UNWELCOME!  If you demonstrate you WANT to learn and WANT to carry it over, she might take the time to help you.  We found that with our speech therapy, that people's comfort REALLY VARIES with carrying this stuff over at home.  They CANNOT have this one size fits all expectation.  So the norm for many therapies is drop off, minimal or no homework, therapist does all the work, therapist hauls you in for more work if it needs to be done more frequently.  Vision therapy even sometimes will have models like that.  I've seen it in ritzy areas, where they literally expect the dc EVERY DAY!  But it's because they KNOW compliance at home will be minimal.

 

So if you're wanting to do more at home, just talk with her.  It sounds like you're going about it well.  You're not the norm and she might actually like it.  What she's DOING is GOOD, so if you can get a working relationship going that will be good!  If you were to change away from her, you would want to have lined up an equally good or better situation and not just drop.  What she's doing is good!  You're just now realizing that if you keep going just once a week and don't carry over at home it's going to be a LONG, expensive process.  It's long anyway, but just really trickle slow.  You can be jet fuel on this by working together, sure.  

 

Well keep us posted!   :)

 

Adding: instead of asking for her to give you separate, additional homework, you might try saying hey I saw in the report you did X, could you demonstrate to me how that works so I can do it at home...

Edited by OhElizabeth

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