Are standardized test scores in 4-9th grade a predictor of SAT success at all?

[...................]

Just curious.  :o)

[Sebastian (a lady)]

Two of my kids have had consistent test scores from early elementary.  If you look at the percentiles, from test to test they are similar.  Their percentile for the Stanford tests and the CAT were similar to their SAT and ACT scores.

 

On the other hand, one of my kids has moved around quite a bit, even within one test brand.  He has developed on a more individual timeline that hasn't always matched his grade level.  I don't know what his SAT scores will look like.

[...................]

Interesting, thanks for sharing. My son scores very well on math and language every year- dare I dream

That he could do as well on his SAT's. That'll be interesting to see.

 

My dd consistently scores very well in language and solidly above average In math. For her career and personality and college goals we'd even be thrilled with similar SAT results for her too.

[Arcadia]

My DS11's standardised test scores from 2nd-4th for California's state testing and for Stanford 10 were consistent with his ACT score profile. He is going to take the new SAT next month so we shall see how his score profile tally.

We didn't do any standardised test in 5th.

[Lori D.]

Very roughly, and for some students, yes. However, I do think the standardized test we used in the late elementary/middle school grades (Iowa Basic Skills Test) definitely was a different enough of a test that I would not put huge weight on the results from the IBST to predict the SAT or ACT. The PSAT was a much closer match in type of test (and in our DSs test results), due to the higher stress on reasoning and critical thinking required by the PSAT, SAT, and ACT, compared to the emphasis on general body of knowledge of the IBST. The SAT and ACT are designed to show level of college-readiness; the IBST is designed to to test grade-level subject content.

 

So a student who scores high on the IBST (content knowledge), can score lower than you expect on the PSAT, SAT or ACT because those tests have a different set of "test-taking tricks" and strategies to them. And the kinds of questions are different, with a focus on reasoning skills rather than content knowledge.

 

And quite honestly… If a student needs a minimum score on the SAT/ACT for college admissions and/or merit aid, I'd be sure to schedule lots of time to do regular prep and practice -- and pay a good tutor -- to help that student learn how to "game the test" as much as possible, regardless of how well the student did on elementary/middle school standardized tests. Paying a few hundred dollars to raise an ACT score 2 points (or SAT score by 100 points) can be the difference between no merit aid and several thousand dollars a year in renewal aid -- or the difference from partial aid to a full tuition scholarship (depending on the college)!

 

So, the PSAT results, and a student's scores on the prep/practice tests for the SAT/ACT, will probably be your best predictors of actual test scores. :)

Edited May 29, 2016 by Lori D.

[SparklyUnicorn]

It was not for me.

 

I didn't prepare for the SAT at all though.

 

 

[...................]

How do we go about finding a good SAT Tutor?  And what year should we hire one?  If they take the final SAT's in 11th, would it be reasonable to hire a tutor during the 10th grade year?

 

 

[Arcadia]

How do we go about finding a good SAT Tutor? And what year should we hire one? If they take the final SAT's in 11th, would it be reasonable to hire a tutor during the 10th grade year?

I would let my kids go for summer test prep class and aim for the new August test date for SAT if they need great scores.

[8filltheheart]

No, they were not for my kids.  Not at all.  They would score in the 99th % with tons of time to spare and with zero prep and zero real thinking (at least from my perspective.)  They treated them like a joke and yet rarely missed any.  

 

The SAT is a much more time pressured test.  Pacing and testing strategies play a far bigger role in scoring high than simply knowing the content and working your way through the test.

 

 

How do we go about finding a good SAT Tutor?  And what year should we hire one?  If they take the final SAT's in 11th, would it be reasonable to hire a tutor during the 10th grade year?

 

We have never hired a tutor.  My kids start prepping in late 10th grade.  The focus is on maintaining pace over 3+ hrs. They just work through test prep books and take those sample tests.  If your child knows the material, that is all they really need to focus on.

[OlgaLA]

I just looked my DD ITBS test for fall of 7th grade, and the predicted scores were spot on for English, and a bit higher for math, compared to the test she took in 8th. The percentiles were about 15% down from her ITBS grade-level percentiles, but the SAT was 4 grades off, so I guess it was a good predictor. The best indicator though was the practice test. We used Barron's book. The score from College board practice test was a little higher than actual.

 

Before you spend money on tutors, have your DC take a practice test, maybe do some practice on Khan Academy or with a test prep book. Then, closer to the actual test, if they are not happy with their scores, look into tutors.

[8filltheheart]

I just looked my DD ITBS test for fall of 7th grade, and the predicted scores were spot on for English, and a bit higher for math, compared to the test she took in 8th. The percentiles were about 15% down from her ITBS grade-level percentiles, but the SAT was 4 grades off, so I guess it was a good predictor. The best indicator though was the practice test. We used Barron's book. The score from College board practice test was a little higher than actual.

 

Before you spend money on tutors, have your DC take a practice test, maybe do some practice on Khan Academy or with a test prep book. Then, closer to the actual test, if they are not happy with their scores, look into tutors.

 

Curious about how you use the SAT as grade level assessment.  Is there a chart for that? I have had middle schoolers take the tests for CTY, but never thought to use their scores as a grade level assessment.  They scored equivalent to  high school scores, so I just took it as "they are doing fine." :)

[OlgaLA]

I guess I didn't make myself clear. ITBS tests are compared to whatever grade it is for, so in her case the last one was compared to 7th graders. SAT is either compared to 11-12 graders or to selected few 7-8 graders, none of which is a fair representation.  Curiously, she was much closer to the top in CR compared to CTY/NUMATS middle-schoolers than to high-schoolers, but her math score percentile was lower with CTY than with high-schoolers. Anyway, I figured she still had 4 years to get to the same percentile in SAT as she was with her grade level peers for ITBS. But you are right,  grand take out from this testing is "she is doing fine" :)

[Tsuga]

Just curious. :o)

They are A predictor. There are many other factors and there are always outliers.

 

Many kids go to school in the same relative conditions, same relative social status, their whole lives. Hence, predictive relevance of many standardized tests. I personally believe that if you can adjust cours (or, if the scores are high, if the child encounters trauma of some kind), scores can change.

[Tsuga]

Interesting, thanks for sharing. My son scores very well on math and language every year- dare I dream

That he could do as well on his SAT's. That'll be interesting to see.

 

My dd consistently scores very well in language and solidly above average In math. For her career and personality and college goals we'd even be thrilled with similar SAT results for her too.

I answered w/o reading answers. With this additional information I would say in your case they are likely a good predictor but test familiarity doesn't hurt either.

[Lori D.]

How do we go about finding a good SAT Tutor?  And what year should we hire one?  If they take the final SAT's in 11th, would it be reasonable to hire a tutor during the 10th grade year?

 

Quick preface -- I totally agree with other posters that good test prep materials and doing practice tests is the way to go to start with. I some how left out half of my thought  :tongue_smilie: in my post above… What I *meant* was: a tutor (or a good test prep class) is good if you have already tested and need to raise test scores by 2 points (ACT) or 100 points (SAT) to hit a certain score for scholarships. I would guess getting tutoring about 3 months prior to testing would give you enough time to learn the test-taking tricks and do the practice testing needed to increase the score.

 

Start with the College Board's blue SAT practice book, the SAT question of the day emailed to you, and the Khan Academy videos on SAT prep, and see how you do. If you still need a tutor after that, I would be careful to set a limit on how much you will spend and what specific goals need to be worked on, to help keep tutor costs from spiraling out of control. I thought these articles were helpful:

Is SAT Tutoring Worth the Cost? A Long Time Tutor Speaks Out

How Do You Find the Best SAT/ACT Tutor for You?

 

BEST of luck in your SAT prep/practice and testing, Calming Tea! Warmest regards, Lori D.

[...................]

Quick preface -- I totally agree with other posters that good test prep materials and doing practice tests is the way to go to start with. I some how left out half of my thought  :tongue_smilie: in my post above… What I *meant* was: a tutor (or a good test prep class) is good if you have already tested and need to raise test scores by 2 points (ACT) or 100 points (SAT) to hit a certain score for scholarships. I would guess getting tutoring about 3 months prior to testing would give you enough time to learn the test-taking tricks and do the practice testing needed to increase the score.

 

Start with the College Board's blue SAT practice book, the SAT question of the day emailed to you, and the Khan Academy videos on SAT prep, and see how you do. If you still need a tutor after that, I would be careful to set a limit on how much you will spend and what specific goals need to be worked on, to help keep tutor costs from spiraling out of control. I thought these articles were helpful:

Is SAT Tutoring Worth the Cost? A Long Time Tutor Speaks Out

How Do You Find the Best SAT/ACT Tutor for You?

 

BEST of luck in your SAT prep/practice and testing, Calming Tea! Warmest regards, Lori D.

 

In our situation, in our state, for my son ANY amount would be good.  We are in probably the most competitive AND expensive state and my son has somewhat limited choices due to major and health issues.  BUT you have some GREAT suggestions where to get started, over the long haul. He is going to sign up for SAT question of the day right now.  For 9th grade, that'll do.  After 9th, I'll have him take the Khan test prep videos and practice test.  :o)

[Arcadia]

PM me after my guinea pig does the June SAT and get his scores back. I am still waiting for his SAT admission ticket by mail because he is under 13 :P

 

For the time being, I did find the AP Literature recommended reading list and the Common Core high school reading list useful for making sure my oldest read a wider range than what he is reading now. Won't be on time to improve his reading score for this saturday's SAT but I am keeping in mind for later.

 

Check for which college superscore the SAT as well. Also take the ACT as well. No harm having a good ACT score to fall back on as a morale booster.

[...................]

PM me after my guinea pig does the June SAT and get his scores back. I am still waiting for his SAT admission ticket by mail because he is under 13 :p

 

For the time being, I did find the AP Literature recommended reading list and the Common Core high school reading list useful for making sure my oldest read a wider range than what he is reading now. Won't be on time to improve his reading score for this saturday's SAT but I am keeping in mind for later.

 

Check for which college superscore the SAT as well. Also take the ACT as well. No harm having a good ACT score to fall back on as a morale booster.

Cool! I'll be looking forward to hearing about it.  Is he applying for Stanford EPGY?

[Arcadia]

Cool! I'll be looking forward to hearing about it. Is he applying for Stanford EPGY?

Do you mean Stanford OHS? My kids tried EPGY twice and didn't like it. My kids aren't interested in the OHS so far and the price tag is high too.

 

ETA:

He did the ACT last year to renew for the CTY talent search. The SAT being new, we just want to see how he does so we can help our younger boy who is a slower reader and slower at bubble coloring prep.

Edited June 1, 2016 by Arcadia

[leeannpal]

My 7th grade daughter's standardized test scores are always in the 90-99 percent range across all subjects. She took the ACT this year for the Duke TIP program and scored a respectable 18 on it as a seventh grader. She did no prep work/study for the ACT before she took it. I am hoping that means, with time and preparation, that her SAT scores will be good by the time she takes them in 4 more  years.

[BlsdMama]

Very roughly, and for some students, yes. However, I do think the standardized test we used in the late elementary/middle school grades (Iowa Basic Skills Test) definitely was a different enough of a test that I would not put huge weight on the results from the IBST to predict the SAT or ACT. The PSAT was a much closer match in type of test (and in our DSs test results), due to the higher stress on reasoning and critical thinking required by the PSAT, SAT, and ACT, compared to the emphasis on general body of knowledge of the IBST. The SAT and ACT are designed to show level of college-readiness; the IBST is designed to to test grade-level subject content.

 

So a student who scores high on the IBST (content knowledge), can score lower than you expect on the PSAT, SAT or ACT because those tests have a different set of "test-taking tricks" and strategies to them. And the kinds of questions are different, with a focus on reasoning skills rather than content knowledge.

 

And quite honestly… If a student needs a minimum score on the SAT/ACT for college admissions and/or merit aid, I'd be sure to schedule lots of time to do regular prep and practice -- and pay a good tutor -- to help that student learn how to "game the test" as much as possible, regardless of how well the student did on elementary/middle school standardized tests. Paying a few hundred dollars to raise an ACT score 2 points (or SAT score by 100 points) can be the difference between no merit aid and several thousand dollars a year in renewal aid -- or the difference from partial aid to a full tuition scholarship (depending on the college)!

 

So, the PSAT results, and a student's scores on the prep/practice tests for the SAT/ACT, will probably be your best predictors of actual test scores. :)

 

 

So true.

 

It also depends on strengths I think.

 

I think a 4th grade test can tell you if your child has good reading skills, good comprehension, and is a good test taker.

 

But, it doesn't tell you how your child is going to handle upper level math or not and that's an important factor in SAT/ACT that can change dramatically from 4th to 12th grade.

If a child is a very strong reader in 4th grade, assuming they continue to read appropriately, those numbers generally stay similar.

 

I will say that the above is what we saw in DD #1.

However, DS #2 is dyslexic and his tests in his early elementary grades gave little indication that he would go on to be a very strong tester.  He learned to read incredibly well and he's mathy.  

 

But, LoriD gives very good advice when she says it's important to learn to game the test.  That cannot be undervalued.

[J-rap]

It was for us.  But interestingly, they were not ("they" meaning all of them -- standardized and SAT/ACT) necessarily an indicator of how my children would actually do in college.  That is, the ones who scored high did very well in college.  But the ones who didn't score high also did very well in college.