GothicGyrl Posted February 12, 2008 Author Share Posted February 12, 2008 With regards to your first part (what if they are).... I don't this woman had "numerous outbursts" based on the article, but since we all agree that the article is either clear or not clear enough, I'll just go in general. If the church is practicing what they preach--that is, love, kindness, showing AND doing what Christians are supposed/called/commanded to do, then and only then if someone is being a holy terror, a church can decide if someone doesn't "fit". However, IMHO (again only my opinion) I've yet to find a church that 1) actually does practice what they preach (eg: WWJD), 2) actually do behave as Christians are commanded to behave, and 3) focus more on inconsequential things (like clothing, hair color, etc) than on the bible. With this in mind, I feel (again just my opinion) that what this church (in the article) and any church who "casts out" someone who just doesn't "fit" with their misplaced ideology of what Christians are supposed to be, then the church is wholely wrong and is not deserving of my sympathy, faith or money. Now, to your next question--criminal. Everything I've said goes out the door if something truly Criminal occured. The law may change often enough, but God does call you to follow man's law as though it were His. So if that is the case, then the law changing all the time should not matter--if the law calls it criminal, so should you. If it is illegal, then God (as does the law) has every right to "punish"--if it were truly criminal. If it were not criminal and just a matter of opinion--an opinion that is based more on legalistics than God, then No, I don't believe God would ever support the "casting out" of someone. Sure, there are a plethora of scenerios one could work on. But my sole point was, unless it is criminal, that is it can get you locked up and away for a while, the church has no business passing any kind of judgement or making the decision to "cast out" anyone--especially if it is based on opinion rather than on God. EG: If I walk in to a church and I hear the Pastor telling people that those who cut their hair are sinners because the verse about a female not looking like a male would apply and that the congregation should "shun" those who don't believe like they do, I'm walking out and never coming back. It is not the Pastor's place for him to decide on something so personal as the decision to cut one's hair (as it wouldn't be for him to decide on head covering, dress wearing, etc..those are personal --between you and God--decisions). kwim? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peek a Boo Posted February 12, 2008 Share Posted February 12, 2008 see, now the only part I disagree with is the changing of laws --I simply do NOT believe that an action being *legal* is necessarily Godly. Biblically, that is upheld [hebrew midwives. Daniel.]. So we are to follow the law of man wherever it does NOT conflict w/ Biblical commands. Unless you want to discount parts of the Bible :-) And of course God doesn't merely exist in America, so one must deal with conflicting laws in other countries as well. Since personal convictions are a huge part of a relationship w/ God, then it looks *to me* like opinion matters a great deal --especially w/ conflicting, ever-changing laws. Thanks for the discussion :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peek a Boo Posted February 12, 2008 Share Posted February 12, 2008 oh, and toni-- this should make you grin, lol: remember way back in the thread where I said "Negative rep can be left for ANYone --it's not limited to you. So if you are getting a lot of negative rep, then I guarantee it's not because everyone else isn't allowed to receive it :-)" well, here ya go-- I got a negative rep for that post, lol. Anonymous, of course :-) I'm guessing it's s'posed to be negative even though the rep'er doesn't have much rep power yet [gray dot], but the comment "hateful" kinda gives away the intention. Anyway, just wanted to let ya know it makes the rounds. Maybe it was LancyBoy-- all p'd off that i reported his post {{snicker}}. Hope he's feeling better :D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
j.griff Posted February 13, 2008 Share Posted February 13, 2008 Maybe it was LancyBoy-- all p'd off that i reported his post {{snicker}}. Hope he's feeling better :D ROFLOL! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GothicGyrl Posted February 13, 2008 Author Share Posted February 13, 2008 see, now the only part I disagree with is the changing of laws --I simply do NOT believe that an action being *legal* is necessarily Godly. Biblically, that is upheld [hebrew midwives. Daniel.]. So we are to follow the law of man wherever it does NOT conflict w/ Biblical commands. Unless you want to discount parts of the Bible :-) Well, since we are allowed to disagree, I disagree with this. And since I don't follow the bible, I do feel that if you are called to follow man's laws as His own, you should. Let's look at this way--biblically, it says women aren't to dress as men. What if the law said "all women must cut their hair" and if you didn't you'd be thrown in prison for good (this is just a discussion, it won't ever happen and I realize that)? Would you break that law because your bible says you shouldn't "dress as a man" or would you say, maybe "get down on your knees" and "talk" to God telling him that it isn't YOUR intent to break HIS law, but with a family to care for, you've got to because you cannot go to prison over something like this and that you hope he understands? Because see to me, God WOULD understand something like this. And I don't believe that God would "punish" you for doing what he commanded you to do in the first place (follow man's law as his own). NOW, totally realizing that that scenerio is likely to NEVER happen, let's look at it like this: Since I don't believe in the bible, then MY guiding "force" if you will, IS the law. If the law says it is legal, I will do it without guilt. And of course God doesn't merely exist in America, so one must deal with conflicting laws in other countries as well. Since personal convictions are a huge part of a relationship w/ God, then it looks *to me* like opinion matters a great deal --especially w/ conflicting, ever-changing laws. Which brings me back to Legalism within the Church. There is too much "telling other people how to live/dress/eat" within the church. Something like wearing a dress/head covering/cutting your hair IS a personal conviction between YOU AND GOD, no one else. And no one else has any right to say otherwise. If you read your bible and YOU feel you should/should not do something, they do/do not. But don't expect everyone else to follow you just because YOU feel it is wrong, kwim? (again, the you is general) That's my whole point of contention with this article and church. IMHO, that Pastor was the one wrong, not the lady. To call 911 during church and ask for police to cuff her and carry her out just because she was trying to get him to follow a church written law that was in place before he existed, is wrong, flat out wrong. I'm not saying there aren't gossipy old bitties who can't mind their own business. My former Methodist church had many who felt the church wasn't doing it "old fashioned enough" for their tastes and tried to change everything---thusly driving away a core group of possible attendees. This to me, is more damaging than an old bitty who wants the Pastor to follow church sanctioned rules. It's all a numbers game and I refuse to take one. :) And who is this "lancyboy"? And they thought you were "hateful" for telling me that everyone gets negatives? That's like the moron who told me I had no right to post my opinion because I wasn't respecting anyone else's by telling them I disagreed with them and why. Whateva... :p Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
j.griff Posted February 13, 2008 Share Posted February 13, 2008 And who is this "lancyboy"? Let's just say he was a bit of a "nutter", LOL. :D ;) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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