Fish oil -- anyone has same experience?

[beishan]

Recently my son told me that taking fish oil seems make him cranky. I asked how? He said when other kids are joking, he will be more emotional if he takes fish oil that day. If he does not take it, he will just join them and laugh. So I stopped his fish oil last week. The first thing I notice is that his hand writing becomes neat. Everything stays on the line. Second thing I notice this week is that he can take correction much better and does not argue too much now. While showing improvement on some areas, he was more forgetful after we stopped fish oil. He forgot to bring back some homework twice since last week and forgot to turn in his reading log last Friday.

Has anyone experience this? He is taking Nordic Natural Pro EPA fish oil.

 

Background:

DS is 10 and in public school. ADHD PI, Mild Specific learning disability in reading and writing

 

[Heathermomster]

No experience with fish oil.  I wonder if the emotional responses have to do with the fact that his awareness is raised, and he hasn't developed the emotional coping mechanisms yet to manage this new awareness.  Maybe, he is taking note of people in a new way?  IDK, maybe talk your son's pediatrician about this.

[wapiti]

My take is that the immune system is much more complicated than we sometimes realize.  Fish oil has a long reputation for affecting the immune system (and by extension the nervous system) and not always in a positive way.  For example, there are some people with tics whose tics get worse with fish oil.

 

I'd go by your trial-and-error observations.  Unless there is a theory involving getting over a hump to see longer-term benefits, I would not resume.  Alternatives might include evening primrose oil, which helps my ds, while fish oil has been either negative or no benefit for him (my ds's issues include OCD and immune system issues, among others; attention tends to be impacted by the OCD).

[MistyMountain]

I did notice something similar with ds when I was trying fish oil but he did not articulate it was fish oil that was making him more moody.

[kbutton]

The only thing I've ever heard is that people with pyrrole disorders don't tolerate fish oil well. I can't find information about it and know even less about it firsthand. 

http://www.thenourishedpsychologist.com/pyroluria/ 

[beishan]

The only thing I've ever heard is that people with pyrrole disorders don't tolerate fish oil well. I can't find information about it and know even less about it firsthand. 

http://www.thenourishedpsychologist.com/pyroluria/ 

 

DS has slightly smaller than regular red blood cell (68/72) and slightly lower hemoglobin level (10.6/12). It's not due to lacking iron intake. Let me research more on this.. Thanks.

[Black-eyed Suzan]

My take is that the immune system is much more complicated than we sometimes realize. Fish oil has a long reputation for affecting the immune system (and by extension the nervous system) and not always in a positive way. For example, there are some people with tics whose tics get worse with fish oil.

 

I'd go by your trial-and-error observations. Unless there is a theory involving getting over a hump to see longer-term benefits, I would not resume. Alternatives might include evening primrose oil, which helps my ds, while fish oil has been either negative or no benefit for him (my ds's issues include OCD and immune system issues, among others; attention tends to be impacted by the OCD).

I agree with wapiti. Another alternative is flax seed oil.

[chocolate-chip chooky]

This is all very interesting.

My 10 year old has anxiety + OCD-ish issues and I've been giving her fish oil supplements.

I'm going to do a one-person experiment and stop it for a while and see what happens.

[wapiti]

This is all very interesting.

My 10 year old has anxiety + OCD-ish issues and I've been giving her fish oil supplements.

I'm going to do a one-person experiment and stop it for a while and see what happens.

 

Please report your results :).

 

In my ds's case, generally, the theory would go something like this:  the immune system is not functioning correctly and now there are antibodies that are causing or contributing to neuropsychiatric problems.  Furthur provocation of the immune system results in even more of that.  On the one hand, fish oil is thought to be an immune modulator.  On the other hand, it is thought to increase immune system response.  Unfortunately that is an incredibly simplistic way to look at this as there are many, many types of immune cells and immune molecules; a problem can be that there are too much of some and not enough of others.  So much is unknown about the functioning of the immune system, the intersection of the immune system and the nervous system, and the differences between individuals who suffer from incorrectly-functioning systems (not even opening the cans of worms of methylation, genetic polymorphisms etc), that trial-and-error is often the way to go with nutritional supplements.

Edited May 21, 2016 by wapiti

[ElizaG]

It sounds as if this might be a food chemical sensitivity.  Fish oil is often very high in amines (products of protein decomposition), which make some people irritable.  These types of amines are also found in processed meats, canned fish, and some fermented foods, but people don't always notice the connection without doing an elimination diet.  There's some information about this at the "Fed Up" web site.   Their nickname for amines is "meanies."

 

We have several family members who are sensitive to amines, and some who react to other food chemicals as well.  We don't try to avoid all foods that contain them -- for instance, we have used fish oil at times -- but awareness can be very helpful.  With amines, in particular, the effect tends to be cumulative. 

[Tiramisu]

For a couple of years I switched to krill oil for better absorption. Until I went back to fish oil, I did not realize the krill oil was triggering allergies and all over body pain. I started having to take allergy meds year round and wondered if I should get an epi pen, but since stopping the krill oil, I have only needed allergy meds on the rare day even at the peak of hay fever season. I don't think I am less irritable but I have no pain and more energy now.

 

Our reactions are so individual.

[chocolate-chip chooky]

Experiment results! :hurray: :hurray: :hurray: (Yes, I'm giving myself a cheer. It's been that kind of day...)

 

Disclaimers:

1. This is very shonky scientific method. Very shonky indeed. One child, no control data, very judgmental observational technique, very tired mama...

2. No children were harmed in the execution of this experiment. Not intentionally anyway.

3. Serious risk of TMI.

 

Quick shout-out to my sponsors:

1. Moccona Latte coffee sachets - I wouldn't be here without you.

2. Cadbury DairyMilk chocolate - you know I love you.

 

Background info:

1. 10yr old daughter, homeschooled

2. Accelerated learner in an unschool-ish sort of way

3. Anxiety + OCD-ish stuff that keeps our days *interesting*

 

 

DAY ONE SANS FISH OIL:

 

OMG, what a shocker.

Well, it wasn't all shocking, but enough that my first thought was 'OMG, what a shocker'.

 

I'll start with the good:

Academics were fine, great in fact. Algebra - all good. Reading Great Expectations - all good. LoF chemistry - all good. Khan Academy programming - super, in fact.

In summary, academics were self-directed, good range, productive - nothing out of the ordinary. Not better, not worse, just normal.

 

The not-so-good:

Who knew choosing a colour of wool for your crochet could be so traumatic?? Meltdown.

Ditto for choosing what to have for lunch. Tears.

Ditto for deciding if you really need to go to the toilet or not. Meltdown.

Ditto for whether to have that herbal tea or not - this links to the will-I-need-the-toilet theme.

Lost count of how many times she asked 'will I vomit?' (Background info: She's not sick and hasn't vomited in about 3 years)

Her shirt is too itchy, it's too glary through the blinds, her neck is sore, she can't get comfortable, that sound is annoying etc ....

Needed an audio book to settle. No sleep until after midnight.

 

In summary, the anxiety-OCDish stuff was on the worse end of normal. Some of this stuff I put down to OEs. Some, I'm not so sure.

 

Conclusion:

Who knows?

I do know that I'm ever so weary.

 

Stay tuned for day 2....

 

Edited May 23, 2016 by chocolate-chip chooky

[wapiti]

Interesting - thanks for the update!  Any increase in anxiety stuff would be a concern for me.

 

Alternatives include flaxseed oil or EPO.  FWIW, some kids have a similar reaction to flaxseed oil as others do to fish oil; it's all so individual.  And I've been intrigued about krill in the past but it's been so long I can't remember why  :tongue_smilie:

[beishan]

Alternatives include flaxseed oil or EPO.  FWIW, some kids have a similar reaction to flaxseed oil as others do to fish oil; it's all so individual.  And I've been intrigued about krill in the past but it's been so long I can't remember why  :tongue_smilie:

 

How about borage oil? I just ordered a bottle of GLA from Nordic Naturals and my Dad gave me a small bottle of cold press flaxseed oil. I think I will start to give him GLA over the long weekend and see if it makes any difference. So far DS has been reacted nicely after we stopped fish oil. Two emotion incidents reported after we stopped fish oil but school psychologist told me that he handled fairly well. Calm down faster with adult and was able to come up with solution for problem solving.

[J-rap]

That's interesting!  I haven't heard of that.  I think I would, first, (if you're comfortable doing so!), sneak fish oil into his food (open a capsule and empty it).  Do that for several days and see if he still feels the mental effects of NOT being on fish oil.

 

I use a fish oil that tastes like orange, and has high ratings and isn't too expensive compared with others:

 

http://www.amazon.com/Barleans-Organic-Oils-Softgels-Orange/dp/B000OQ6568?ie=UTF8&psc=1&redirect=true&ref_=oh_aui_search_detailpage

 

I'd be interested in the results!

[chocolate-chip chooky]

More experiment results!

 

DAY TWO SANS FISH OIL

 

Disclaimers, shout-outs and background info up-thread in a previous post.

 

Hey, today was pretty good. It actually was.

After an ever-so-late night the night before, my daughter was up at 5.30am, so I had concerns for the day ahead. But her mood was really upbeat all day.

 

Academics were strong and normal. Self-directed, productive, positive.

 

We made it out the door to piano without any anxiety-related drama, which is a big deal.

Things came crashing down at about 8.30pm, but I'm willing to put that down to hitting the sleep wall. At that point the anxiety-OCD-ish stuff flared up, was a bit intense, but was short-lived. In that moment she expressed her frustration that she thinks too much about everything. Metacognition in action? Intellectual OE? Self-awareness?

 

Conclusion - all in all, a good day, on the better end of normal. :hurray: :hurray:

 

Stay tuned for day three......

[beishan]

I also got email from school psychologist as I mentioned that we want to know if DS has any change after we stopped fish oil two weeks ago. She checked with classroom teacher and reports no significant change after he stopped taking fish oil. At home, I continue noticing handwriting improvement, better attitude and better tolerance of frustration. His tutor and ice skating coach both  reported better attitude and cooperation during session. Now all he takes in the morning is multivitamin (with 37.5mg b6, 15mg zinc), opc3 (Pycnogenol), and 200mg magnesium.

[Terabith]

My oldest was speech delayed and had tons of sensory issues. Her SLP strongly recommend fish oil. Specific formulation that she said was delicious.

 

Child hated it. Screamed. Writhed. I forced it and dealt with vomit.

 

Found out two years later she was allergic to fish. Oops.

 

Could use it as a bribe with my younger one. "If you're really good, you can have another spoonful of cod liver oil."

[Tiramisu]

Terabith, I have a DD who is allergic to fish, too. Unfortunately, she also got long-lasting hives after I gave her flax seed oil. :(

[chocolate-chip chooky]

More experiment results!

 

DAY THREE SANS FISH OIL

 

Disclaimers, shout-outs and background info up-thread in a previous post.

 

This was our calmest day in recent times. No meltdowns and minimal anxiety-OCD stuff. Really minimal. No issues with decisions, no dramas with her usual triggers.

 

Wow, there could be something to this.

Could fish oil have been causing her brain to over-fire or mis-fire?

Could this just be an odd coincidence?

 

Stay tuned for day four ...

[summerreading]

It's great that your son can give you this feedback. I'm interested to see what you try next.

 

I have meltdowns picking out yarn too :)

[chocolate-chip chooky]

DAY FOUR SANS FISH OIL

 

Disclaimers, shout-outs and background info up-thread in a previous post.

 

Another really great day ... I'm not willing to toss the fish oil out just yet, but I'm going to persist with no fish oil for a couple of weeks and see what happens.

 

The thing is, we regularly have ups and downs, so I'm not quite ready to start cartwheeling down the halls in joy. :) I'm cautiously optimistic though....is that an oxymoron??

[mellifera33]

I am watching this thread with interest. My 5 y/o has some challenging behaviors, and I was starting to wonder if the fish oil was exacerbating some of his issues. I kept thinking, no, fish oil is good for the brain....but it seemed that every time I got consistent with the fish oil, he got a little more exciting. lol Fish oil does seem to help my 8 y/o with focus, so he will continue on it, but I'm not dosing the youngers anymore. 

[geodob]

The use of the term 'fish oil', really confuses this issue?

Where we really need to understand it as, '2 types of long-chain fatty-acids'.

(EPA and DHA)

Our brain is made up of Grey Matter and White Matter,

Where their is more more White Matter, than Grey Matter.

 

But what this 'White Matter' is?  Is basically 'Fat'.

So that most of our brain, is just a few pounds of Fat.

 

The Gray Matter,  makes up the Brain Cells.

But what learning does, is to create new 'Networks of Connections' between brain cells.

Which is actually an 'electric connection', and why brain activity can be detected with an EEG.

 

But these grey matter electrical connections, need 'insulating'.  Just like any electrical cable that you have, which will have a 'plastic coating',  to isolate it.

Though the brain doesn't use 'Plastic'?

Rather it uses 2 types of 'long-chain fatty-acids', to coat our Gray Matter neural wiring.

 

While the digestive system can convert 'shorter-chain fatty acids' (ALA) into longer chains?

It is a complex and difficult process, that can result in a shortage?

 

So that taking Fish Oil or any Omega3 supplement?

Simply provides easy access to white matter building materials, for the brain.