would dyslexia testing be beneficial?

[caedmyn]

I'm wondering if there would be a point to getting my 7 YO screened for dyslexia (ie, would it give me information I don't already have).  This would be the type of screening a general Barton screener does, that's not accepted by schools.  I don't really have any doubt that he is dylsexic.  We started using Abecedarian about 6 weeks ago and he's made SO much progress in reading since then.  He went from having maybe 15 words he could reliably recognize and having to sound everything else out (after nearly 2 years of phonics instruction), to being able to read most CVC words without sounding them out.  He still has a long ways to go, but he's moving in the right direction now.  I'm just not sure what information a screening would give besides confirming that he's dyslexic?

 

A side question: he can read text upside down just as well as right-side up.  He moves so much that sometimes he ends up with the page upside down (or sideways) relative to his body position, and it makes no different to how he reads.  Is this typical for dyslexic kids?  It seems very odd.

[summerreading]

Have you ruled out ADD and/or vision issues? Would you be able to get a full eval or a dyslexia screening with a psychologist? I think testing is a good idea. There may be things you don't know you are dealing with. I couldn't imagine trying to remediate my son without him getting his convergence issues (vision) treated.

[PeterPan]

The ps will do the evals for free.  I think the Barton tutor eval *will* be enough documentation to get you access to some services like Learning Ally, yes?  

 

If it's going to cost you much, I would be putting that money into a psych eval.  Even a 2 hour clinical psych eval would give you more information than the Barton tutor eval.  But you can get that same eval and more from the ps for free.  As the others said, he could have ADHD (comorbid 60% of the time), language issues, or other things going on that would show up with full evals.  

[caedmyn]

How do you find someone to do a clinical psych eval? I don't want to go through the public schools. I have no doubt at all that he has ADHD also. I am not interested in medicating for it though so idk what the point of formal confirmation would be.

[PeterPan]

Well I can tell you that if you decide *later* to medicate (which you might, things change) or get ACT/SAT accommodations, it will be helpful to have that paper trail.  Usually people with ADHD have EF issues, low processing speed, etc.  That will show up in the testing the psych does.  You may get some things flagged that you aren't anticipating, and you'll definitely get information that can change how you work with him.  

 

Some psychs are better than others about giving helpful feedback.  Talk with them for a bit when you call and just see how helpful they are, how easy they are to talk with.  I've had psychs spend hours helping me apply results, and I've had psychs who were absolute jerks, telling me I shouldn't try to teach my own kid, blah blah.  As homeschoolers we're wanting help applying the info, so it helps to call and talk with the psychs and just see if they're a good match, see if they have had favorable experiences with homeschoolers, etc.

 

If you have insurance, you can look for psychs in your network.  You can google or ask around.  For dyslexia, you REALLY want to make sure the psych is going to run the CTOPP.  If he's not, move on.  Learning Ally has a self-listing and there are psychs on there.  I googled for ped referral lists in our area and just to see who was active in the dyslexia support orgs and dyslexia community here.  When I found a name appearing multiple places, I knew I was on the right track.  :)

[FairProspects]

How do you find someone to do a clinical psych eval? I don't want to go through the public schools. I have no doubt at all that he has ADHD also. I am not interested in medicating for it though so idk what the point of formal confirmation would be.

 

Because a trained neuropsych can tease apart how much of his issue is related to ADHD and how much, if any, is dyslexia related. We've had more than one boardie go into an eval expecting to get a dyslexia diagnosis, only to be told that the child had no language LD at all, but rather ADHD. The educational approach and recommended accommodations differ depending on the diagnosis.

 

I agree that you want full evals. I'm not sure what the point of the Barton screening would be. It won't get you the correct paperwork you need if he is dyslexic and you will just need to do the full eval anyway to get the paper trail going. I know the Barton screeners are significantly less expensive, but it doesn't really gain you anything.

[PeterPan]

Just to follow up on FP, I'll agree a neuropsych does much more thorough testing and would, in general, be a great option.  However if the op wants the same pricepoint or is weighing a tutor eval vs. a psych eval, my point is the clinical psych eval could be so close in price to the tutor eval that it doens't make sense to go tutor eval.  But check your insurance, etc. etc.  obviously.  Any psych eval will take you farther.  

[FairProspects]

Just to follow up on FP, I'll agree a neuropsych does much more thorough testing and would, in general, be a great option.  However if the op wants the same pricepoint or is weighing a tutor eval vs. a psych eval, my point is the clinical psych eval could be so close in price to the tutor eval that it doens't make sense to go tutor eval.  But check your insurance, etc. etc.  obviously.  Any psych eval will take you farther.  

 

The Barton tutor evals I've seen quoted run around $100. There is no psych or neuropsych in my area that will do an eval for under $2000, so it would be a significant difference in price point here.

[PeterPan]

Around here $800 for a clinical psych and I *thought* I saw quote in the $350 range for a tutor eval.  So then it's pretty close.

[ElizabethB]

Typically, dyslexia is phonological, not visual. That sounds more visual. Have you ruled out vision with a COVD eye doctor?

[PeterPan]

Typically, dyslexia is phonological, not visual. That sounds more visual. Have you ruled out vision with a COVD eye doctor?

 

Agreed.  Just in passing I tried to get my ds to read something upside down yesterday (we were doing Hidden Pictures and rotated the book) and he could not do it.  I don't know how widespread that is, but I think for him it's just that it's so challenging ANYWAY to read that to ask him to read upside down is like saying do it while climbing Mt. Everest. 

 

That movement could be ADHD.  If he has a retained STNR, it would cause midline and vision issues.  I haven't seen ABCDarian, but if it uses large print that might be part of the explanation about why it's working.  

 

A Barton tutor isn't qualified to sort out ANY of that.  

Edited May 18, 2016 by OhElizabeth

[Heathermomster]

DS was screened dyslexic late 1st grade at a Scottish Rite Learning Center, and np tested 5 months later with the 2e handwriting and maths disability piled on.  We didn't see that coming, but it allowed us to intervene sooner which is better for DS long term.  With an official diagnosis, we gained access to BookShare and LearningAlly so that DS could download his textbooks.  I appreciate not having to purchase all of his audio books.

 

Edited May 18, 2016 by Heathermomster

[geodob]

The main use of Screeners, is to help with deciding whether to proceed to a full evaluation. 

Where schools will often use them for this purpose.

Though various Programs have created their own Screeners.  Which can help to define whether their Program will be helpful or not?
But they are no more than an indication of a possible LD, and are in no way a diagnosis.

 

One of the main Screeners used by schools, is the DIBELS screener.  Which is used for Response to intervention (RTI). Where a student might not have an LD, but just need some intensive support for a while. To catch up.

 

But I was interested that you noticed that your son can 'read text upside down'?

As I've been researching this with an international team, for about 6 years.

Where we have found that about 1 in 20 children, can fluently read text upside down, but have considerable difficulty with reading text the correct way.

Which is often mis-diagnosed as Dyslexia.

 

So perhaps you could do a simple test with your son?

Which just involves doing a comparison of his reading text upside down, and the normal way?

Have him do it a few times.

Where you might find that he can read the upside down text, far more fluently?

 

Maybe you could also him to try a write a sentence, upside down and right to left?
Comparing this with him writing a sentence in the normal way.

[caedmyn]

I don't see any indicators at all of vision problems. He has phonological issues--he just figured out rhyming last week at 7.5 yo, and was late learning sounds and letters, among other things. Changes in text size don't affect his reading ability. The Gift of Dylsexia said that dyslexic kids (at least the ones that fit their profile) can rotate letters all around in their heads, so it seems like that would explain being able to read upside down.

 

The Barton screener I called charges $450. There's only 2 in the state, so they don't exactly have a lot of competition to keep their prices down.

[caedmyn]

Certainly the movement is ADHD. I do not see any indicators of midline issues either. I think it would be impossible for a kid to climb the way he's done since 6 months old with midline issues.

[FairProspects]

Fwiw, my older ds can read text upside down, sideways, mirror, whatever. He is off the charts spatial and thinks mirror writing and text is easier and more fun than regular positioning, so yes, that can be a dyslexic strength for a kid with what the Eides would label M strengths.

 

I agree with Geodob. You already suspect a learning disability. That is the only info you will get from a screener. To find out more information, strengths and weaknesses, and get an official diagnosis you will need to do a full eval. Especially for the cost quoted I would save your money and look towards the full neuropsychological evaluation. IMHO, using a screener in this case would just be wasted money. They are far more appropriate in school settings for RTI or IEP purposes or if you plan to do the equivalent remediation through private tutoring. It makes sense for a Barton tutor to offer screenings as it helps them provide the best educational services for their students, but it doesn't give you the information you want or need for your situation.

[OneStepAtATime]

Fwiw, my older ds can read text upside down, sideways, mirror, whatever. He is off the charts spatial and thinks mirror writing and text is easier and more fun than regular positioning, so yes, that can be a dyslexic strength for a kid with what the Eides would label M strengths.

 

I agree with Geodob. You already suspect a learning disability. That is the only info you will get from a screener. To find out more information, strengths and weaknesses, and get an official diagnosis you will need to do a full eval. Especially for the cost quoted I would save your money and look towards the full neuropsychological evaluation. IMHO, using a screener in this case would just be wasted money. They are far more appropriate in school settings for RTI or IEP purposes or if you plan to do the equivalent remediation through private tutoring. It makes sense for a Barton tutor to offer screenings as it helps them provide the best educational services for their students, but it doesn't give you the information you want or need for your situation.

Agreed.

[PeterPan]

My ds is a competitive gymnast, and he had midline issues because of a retained reflex.  You don't know till you eval.  You can find the tests for the reflexes online or in books like Stopping ADHD.

 

Yes, for that price, I would be looking for a clinical psych.  You'll get more information and you'll get paper trail that helps you over the long haul.  If you can go up to a neuropsych, do it.  The difference is the #hours spend testing and the additional tests they do.  

 

And yes, I agree with Heather that getting the possible extra issues diagnosed like SLD math and SLD reading can save you grief over the long run.

 

Edited May 18, 2016 by OhElizabeth

[caedmyn]

What is SLD?

 

It's $300 just for an initial evaluation with the neuropsychologist here. DH is never going to agree to it anyway. I am just too tired to deal with any of this.

[Tanaqui]

I don't want to go through the public schools.

 

Why not? It'd at least be free, which would solve your cost issue.

 

I have no doubt at all that he has ADHD also. I am not interested in medicating for it though so idk what the point of formal confirmation would be.

 

Your son will one day go to work, and probably will go to college. He may need accommodations at that point. If he does, it's important to already have a diagnosis.

 

Also, as somebody said upthread, you may change your mind about medication. Many people do. If you do, it's better to have a diagnosis and not need it than the other way around, don't you think?

 

DH is never going to agree to it anyway.

 

Because of the cost? Or...?

 

If it's a cost thing, again, I gotta ask what your issue is with going through the schools. Or maybe your insurance will cover some of it?

 

If it's not a cost thing - listen, I've said this before to other people, and no doubt I'll say it again, but your son has two parents, and you're one of them. Your responsibility is to do the right thing for your child.

 

Edited May 18, 2016 by Tanaqui

[FairProspects]

What is SLD?

 

It's $300 just for an initial evaluation with the neuropsychologist here. DH is never going to agree to it anyway. I am just too tired to deal with any of this.

 

I completely empathize with the fatigue factor. None of us signed up for or expected this with our kids. Any chance you can go through the school system to get the testing done? I understand not wanting to do so, but if it is about cost, they do evaluate for free.Take some time for yourself too as you make decisions.

 

Just for reference though, I am getting my private education business set up and I have the appropriate credentials to administer screening instruments like the ones you are considering through a Barton tutor. These assessments are expensive to administer. I initially wanted to charge a lower rate than other area psychologists so that one income, homeschooling families could get access to information they need, but there is no way I can make the math work. The amount of time required for testing, the cost of the tests themselves, the online platforms and software needed to generate testing reports, and the time behind the scenes in writing provider reports and recommendations are all massive. I'm going to have to charge the same market rates as other professionals because otherwise I am literally taking a loss or working for free after all things are considered. I really wish the process was less expensive or less time intensive, but it isn't, and our kids do need these services and evaluations to succeed.

Edited May 18, 2016 by FairProspects

[Tanaqui]

I initially wanted to charge a lower rate than other area psychologists so that one income, homeschooling families could get access to information they need, but there is no way I can make the math work.

 

Maybe a sliding scale? Some people might be willing to pay more if they know they're subsidizing another person who can't afford that price.

 

[Storygirl]

SLD is Specific Learning Disability. There are several areas that can be specified -- SLD math computation, SLD written expression, etc. The designation for dyslexia is SLD reading (this is what the school calls it, instead of dyslexia).

[PeterPan]

What is SLD?

 

It's $300 just for an initial evaluation with the neuropsychologist here. DH is never going to agree to it anyway. I am just too tired to deal with any of this.

 

That $300 is a common price per hour for a neuropsych, yes.  That's why full evals, at least around here, are typically $2K+.  And they expect payment at service rendered and don't take insurance.  If you have insurance for it, you need to get referrals and deal with that whole system.  Many private psychs won't take it, so you end up filing and getting reimbursed.

 

As the others said, you may not like the ps for a K reasons, but they WILL do these tests and do them for free.  I'm a limited gov't kind of woman, but I think it's a great kindness in our society that ANYONE can have access to this testing for their kids.  The same stuff I paid $2200 for your ps will run for FREE.  They might take their time and be a pain in the butt about it, but they HAVE those tests and CAN do them, all for free.  AND, if you disagree with the results you can request independent evals ON THEIR DIME!!!  So when your pricepoint is free, that's how you get there.

 

I'm not going to rag you in this case on how to handle your husband.  :)  I'll just tell you that sometimes it takes a long time for husbands to catch up because *we* are the ones doing all the reading and researching and learning.  We're also the ones doing all the teaching.  When I got ds' first evals, I told my dh we had to do it because *I* was the one teaching him and *I* didn't have enough information to teach him correctly.  Because I'm always the one doing the reading, I'm usually a few steps ahead of him on some things.  That's just how it is.  So I try to lead by being firm and clear where my evidence indicates it's really essential, knowing that if he understood the things I've seen and learned he would be there too.

 

I think you can decide when you want that info, where you are as a family on that, and how long you're willing to guess and treat/intervene based on those guesses.  I knew my guessing about my ds would be incorrect and incomplete, so I just refused.  And with ds I've had to draw the line, like ok we bring in this expensive help OR he goes to an EVEN MORE EXPENSIVE school.  And since specialty schools around here are $25-30K a year (I kid you not), that $2K eval or $200 intervention bill suddenly looks pretty small!  But money is real, so do what you can and what seems reasonable.  You can start with the school and then go private if needed.  Sometimes the ps does a really good job!