Saxon math ?

[Lorien]

I have a highly motivated student who has no trouble at all with math. He rarely gets more than one or two problems wrong, and usually his errors are hasty-work type mistakes. That said .... he is finishing up 7/6 this year and I'm wondering what to do next?

 

TWTM recommends moving a strong math student from 7/6 straight to Algebra 1/2, skipping 8/7. Some comments I've read online recommend doing 8/7 and skipping Algebra 1/2. So now I'm wondering .... If he's good at math, which could we safely skip? Or, can we just skip both and move right into Algebra 1? 😀 Would he benefit more from having the foundation that 8/7 or Algebra 1/2 could give?

 

I don't want to spend excess $$$ just to get a curriculum that covers what he already knows, but I don't want to jump him ahead too much and leave him struggling with the work and having to play catch-up the rest of his school years.

 

(Side note: we don't have the most recent edition of TWTM, so I don't know if the recommendation for Saxon has changed or not. We have the first and second editions.)

[amsunshine]

Have you done the Saxon placement exams for both 8/7 and Alg 1/2?  That's where I'd suggest you start.

[Lorien]

Have you done the Saxon placement exams for both 8/7 and Alg 1/2? That's where I'd suggest you start.

No. Thanks for the suggestion!

[wapiti]

My rough understanding from reading here is that Saxon 8/7 and algebra 1/2 are both prealgebra, such that you'd use one or the other, but not both.  It wold not seem wise to skip the prealgebra level.

 

You might also consider whether prealgebra might be a good time to go in another direction or add in more problem solving for a deeper math education that further develops your student's math talents.  A lot has changed since the early versions of WTM were published - if I recall correctly, now the Well Trained Mind Academy offers two different online classes at the prealgebra level, one using Saxon and one using AoPS (an online class is not necessary - the text should suffice).  Checking placement tests is always a good idea but I'd guess that your student might be at the right level for AoPS Prealgebra.  (For more about the philosophy of learning behind AoPS, see Rusczyk's talk text video, rather different from the philosophy of learning behind Saxon.)

Edited May 17, 2016 by wapiti

[Ellie]

I have a highly motivated student who has no trouble at all with math. He rarely gets more than one or two problems wrong, and usually his errors are hasty-work type mistakes. That said .... he is finishing up 7/6 this year and I'm wondering what to do next?

 

TWTM recommends moving a strong math student from 7/6 straight to Algebra 1/2, skipping 8/7. Some comments I've read online recommend doing 8/7 and skipping Algebra 1/2. So now I'm wondering .... If he's good at math, which could we safely skip? Or, can we just skip both and move right into Algebra 1? 😀 Would he benefit more from having the foundation that 8/7 or Algebra 1/2 could give?

 

I don't want to spend excess $$$ just to get a curriculum that covers what he already knows, but I don't want to jump him ahead too much and leave him struggling with the work and having to play catch-up the rest of his school years.

 

(Side note: we don't have the most recent edition of TWTM, so I don't know if the recommendation for Saxon has changed or not. We have the first and second editions.)

 

Saxon never intended for children to do both Math 87 and Alg. 1/2, so doing one is not "skipping" the other. One does not have a different/better foundation than the other.

 

In the earliest editions, the progression was Math 76, Alg. 1/2, Alg. 1, if the student had at least an 80% average in Math 76. When Math 87 was written, it was recommended that children who had less than an 80% average in Math 76 to do Math 87, then Alg. 1. At some point the publisher changed the recommendation (there were some revisions in the texts--I don't know what they were) to Math 76, Math 87, Alg. 1, if the children had at least an 80% average in Math 76; if not, then Math 76, Alg. 1/2, Alg. 1.

 

If you are using current editions, and your ds has at least an 80% average, he would do Math 87, then Alg. 1. You would not do the placement test, as that is intended for children who have been using a different publisher and will be going into Saxon.

[Vida Winter]

My understanding is that if you want to use older versions of the books, go with Alg 1/2; if using the newest versions, use 8/7. We plan on using 1/2 in the upcoming school year with the Virtual Homeschool Group.

[Lorien]

Thanks for the replies! I wasn't sure how these levels of Saxon worked, but it's making sense now! We've been using the 3rd editions, which I think are the latest.

[Lorien]

Saxon never intended for children to do both Math 87 and Alg. 1/2, so doing one is not "skipping" the other. One does not have a different/better foundation than the other.

 

In the earliest editions, the progression was Math 76, Alg. 1/2, Alg. 1, if the student had at least an 80% average in Math 76. When Math 87 was written, it was recommended that children who had less than an 80% average in Math 76 to do Math 87, then Alg. 1. At some point the publisher changed the recommendation (there were some revisions in the texts--I don't know what they were) to Math 76, Math 87, Alg. 1, if the children had at least an 80% average in Math 76; if not, then Math 76, Alg. 1/2, Alg. 1.

 

If you are using current editions, and your ds has at least an 80% average, he would do Math 87, then Alg. 1. You would not do the placement test, as that is intended for children who have been using a different publisher and will be going into Saxon.

Thanks for this info! Ds is averaging above 80%, so it looks like we'll be moving on to 8/7.

[FriedClams]

If you're using the new editions, the transition may be different. I'd Google "art reed saxon editions" and check. I know the old editions include geometry at higher levels, but the new ones require an additional year of a separate geometry. I think there are some other differences worth researching.

[mschickie]

We did 87 because that moves a little slower and I wanted to make sure dd got the concepts.  If you complete 87 well you can go right into Algebra 1 which is what dd did.  If you do not do well with 87 then you can do Algebra1/2.

 

This is what Art Reed said on his site:

 

 

So what Saxon math book does a student who has completed Math 76 use? Well, that depends upon how well the student did in the Math 76 book. The key word is “successfully completed,†not just “completed†Math 76. If a student completed the entirety of the Math 76 textbook and his last five tests in that book were eighty or better, he would have “successfully completed†Math 76 and he could move on to the Algebra ½ book. However, if the student’s last five test grades were all less than seventy-five, that student has indicated that he will in all likelihood experience difficulty in the Algebra ½ materials and should therefore proceed first through the Math 87 textbook.

While both the Math 87 and the Algebra ½ textbooks prepare the student for any Algebra 1 course, the Math 87 book starts off a bit slower with more review, allowing the student to “catch up.†The student who then moves successfully through the Math 87 textbook, receiving eighties or better on the last five tests, can then skip the Algebra ½ book and move directly to an Algebra 1 textbook.

However, if the student finishes the Math 87 book and the last five test grades reflect difficulty with the material, that student should then be moved into the Algebra ½ book to receive another – but different – look at “pre-algebra†before attempting the Algebra 1 course. Students fail algebra because they do not understand fractions, decimals and percents; they fail calculus because they do not understand the basics of algebra. Attempting to “fast track†a student who had weak Math 76 test scores - into Algebra ½ - then on to Algebra 1, will most certainly result in frustration if not failure in either Algebra ½, or Algebra 1 — or cause the homeschool educator to seek an “easier†math curriculum.

 

 

Here is the link to his whole newslwetter http://usingsaxon.com/newsletterpage-2015.php