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Kinsa

"What's Killing White, Middle-aged American Women?"

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One of my kids (9yo) had a couple of cavities filled without any pain killers, and the dentist people acted like it was the weirdest thing ever.  :P  My kid has a high pain tolerance.  Weird or not, maybe it will be a good thing in the long run.

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One of my kids (9yo) had a couple of cavities filled without any pain killers, and the dentist people acted like it was the weirdest thing ever. :P My kid has a high pain tolerance. Weird or not, maybe it will be a good thing in the long run.

I know a dozen friends who have kids fighting serious drug addictions from wisdom teeth removal pain meds. I say count your blessings for being weirdos with high pain tolerance.

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As a Latina, I can't get advice beyond "you're getting old" for the life of me. I'm 38.

 

As for the article, all I can think of is this song:

 

 

Opium is a hell of a drug. A sick drug. I feel sad for anyone who has to take it to make it through--some make it out. But many don't. :(

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This reminds me of my mom's situation. She kept going to the doctor trying to find out why she was always so run down. (Yes, they prescribed various antidepressants, which did not fix the problem.) Well. it turns out she had colon cancer for probably 10 years (age 50-60). They never thought to check for that. My sister was being seen for something else and saw a flyer about colon cancer and thought, this sounds like Mom. She pushed Mom to demand a colonoscopy. After the biopsy, they did emergency surgery like the next day because it was that advanced. Followed by chemo and radiation. How much of that could have been avoided by just doing a screening at the right time? Who knows whether Mom will ever experience what we call quality of life again?

 

I don't personally know of any pill addictions among my family or close friends. Though they wouldn't necessarily tell me about it.

After the birth of my DS I kept mentioning to my dr I was really tired all the time. I thought maybe it was my thyroid. He said it was just because I was a mom. Fast forward to last year and I find out I have a rare blood cancer.... But I could probably get all the pain killers and anti depressants I want. Our medical system is so messed up.

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I know a dozen friends who have kids fighting serious drug addictions from wisdom teeth removal pain meds. I say count your blessings for being weirdos with high pain tolerance.

Why?

Wisdom teeth removal should only need 3-5 days of pain meds.

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This thread reminds me and maybe someone here can answer this. I am not affected by hydrocodone or oxycodone. I don't get a buzz. My pain doesn't go away. I didn't complain to the doctors because I just took 800mg ibuprofen (a doctor told me that was prescription strength) and it helped a little, but didn't take the pain away completely. I can't take Tylenol because it never helps and I can't take more than 2 at a time. Any ideas on why pain meds don't seem to work for me? My fear is I'll end up in the hospital in severe pain for some reason, and the meds won't help and the doctors will think I'm a drug seeking patient because I'll complain what they're giving isn't enough. I think I've been on one other pain med but I can't remember what it was and I don't remember that helping all that much either.

 

Me either. I've been given morphine (in hospital) and it does nothing. Oxycodone doesn't do anything either ( again, that was in hospital). Every now and then I worry about it. You want to know that if you are in terrible pain, morphine will do something...

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Same for pain...Pain management IS critical. Uncontrolled pain hampers healing and causes so much misery. Obviously there has to be a balance there. 

 

Yes, and the balance has to be individual.  My 91 year old mother is in severe pain from her joints, particularly her shoulder.  She will probably be having steroid injections into the joint once she is through physio (there is muscle damage too).  She is incredibly grateful for the opiate pain patches, topped up with half a teaspoon of opiate in the morning when she wakes up in so much pain.

 

At her age, the risk of suicide is great due to the hopelessness brought about by living with eternal, unbearable pain.  I'm very happy if her final years are spent in managed opiate dependency, rather than excruciating pain.

Edited by Laura Corin
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Lack of pain management is a common complaint here in Italy.  There are some serious horror stories.

 

I'm not one to medicate (even tylenol/motrin/advil) unless I'm out of options.  Most opiates do nothing for me pain-wise, and I hate the loopy-spacey feeling.  However, I was grateful during my final gall bladder attack to have some real pain medicine to bring some relief (my last gall bladder attack was over 8 hours long, and included fever and vomiting, which is how I wound up in the hospital to have it removed).  There is a time and place for pain relief, and some will need more than others.  However, I do agree that our medical community tends to treat symptoms rather than find causes.  I would much rather investigate the actual cause than keep throwing band-aids on symptoms.

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I think what people want though is not pain killers to mask the pain but investigation into the cause and solution

 

:iagree:  At least, it's what I've been looking for.  Meanwhile, if you want pain meds or antidepressants, I could give them to you as I don't (ever) take them, but feel guilty leaving them at our (small town, local) pharmacy since prescriptions get sent over automatically rather than my taking them there.  Lately I've been trying to intercept that - sometimes successfully.

 

If I were an unethical person I could have a nice side business selling meds. 

 

Ditto.  We joke about it around here quite often.  But silly me figures what isn't good for me also isn't good for the person I'd be illegally selling them to and that would be tough to live with on my mind.

 

Yes, and the balance has to be individual.  My 91 year old mother is in severe pain from her joints, particularly her shoulder.  She will probably be having steroid injections into the joint once she is through physio (there is muscle damage too).  She is incredibly grateful for the opiate pain patches, topped up with half a teaspoon of opiate in the morning when she wakes up in so much pain.

 

At her age, the risk of suicide is great due to the hopelessness brought about by living with eternal, unbearable pain.  I'm very happy if her final years are spent in managed opiate dependency, rather than excruciating pain.

 

:iagree:   There is a time and place for meds of all sorts, esp when there is no other help for a situation.

 

I just don't think it needs to be a first choice, esp for those who don't want it to be.

 

And obviously, overuse is hurting more than helping way too many people.  

 

Our tenants from ____ (previous threads) went from doing ok to breaking up family, losing jobs, losing their place to live, and the sheriff hunting them down over what was most likely drug addiction to a pain killer for a minor hand injury.

 

If it's something that will get better, I prefer the pain to the risk.  If/when it's not going to get better, addiction isn't that big of a deal (comparatively), but it's still an individual decision.

Edited by creekland
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Well, because there has been a trend in overprescribing, the guidelines have recently changed and I think the pendulum is now going to swing in the other direction. My husband has been suffering from a severe back injury and his doctor wouldn't prescribe him any pain meds because of the risk of addiction. My brother had a similar injury last year and this same doctor gave him a pain prescription for months and months.

 

On the other hand, benzodiazapine prescribing seems out if hand. My sdd wound up building a physical dependence to those this last year without even realizing it because every time she went to the doctor, they handed them to her like candy. Fortunately, she's not the first person I've known to go through that and I recognized the symptoms. She'd been going through months of hell, not understanding she had developed a dependence on them and thinking she was having a mental breakdown. So, she'd run out of ativan and wind up in the ER with a massive anxiety attack and they'd prescribe more. Even when she was hospitalized and both she and my dh asked them not to give her any more ativan, they kept pushing it on her because it calmed her down and made their job easier. She almost lost her job and her marriage.

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This thread reminds me and maybe someone here can answer this. I am not affected by hydrocodone or oxycodone. I don't get a buzz. My pain doesn't go away. I didn't complain to the doctors because I just took 800mg ibuprofen (a doctor told me that was prescription strength) and it helped a little, but didn't take the pain away completely. I can't take Tylenol because it never helps and I can't take more than 2 at a time. Any ideas on why pain meds don't seem to work for me? My fear is I'll end up in the hospital in severe pain for some reason, and the meds won't help and the doctors will think I'm a drug seeking patient because I'll complain what they're giving isn't enough. I think I've been on one other pain med but I can't remember what it was and I don't remember that helping all that much either.

Demerol, Dilaudid and Morphine are in a different family and tend to work for people like you.

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.

 

At her age, the risk of suicide is great due to the hopelessness brought about by living with eternal, unbearable pain.  I'm very happy if her final years are spent in managed opiate dependency, rather than excruciating pain.

 

I think they key word here is managed. So many doctors prescribe more than needed, then cut the patient off cold turkey. That's how you end up with people addicted to heroin!

 

I have NOTHING against opioids. I in fact like vicodin more than I should, honestly. It is the only opiod that really helps my pain,and it makes me feel really good. I won't lie, I enjoy taking it. BUT, I only take it when I need it (I've had SO much dental work done in the last two years, and weight loss surgery). I'm very aware not to take more than I need, and to be strict, because I do enjoy the way it makes me feel. Oddly, tylenol with codeine does nothing for my pain and makes me feel like crap. 

 

The other thing is, I'm still using the same bottle of vicodin for a year or two ago. After 3 or more hours in the dentist chair (my new norm), yes, I generally take a dose if I need it. And I usually do. My mouth is small, to the point that they have to stretch and bruise me to get access tot he back teeth. I right now have a bit of a black eye from dental work last week! But, I take one dose in the evening, so I can sleep without pain. Or right when I get home, and then in the evening. I can only take limited advil, due to the weight loss surgery, so this keeps me comfortable. But....no dentist has offered or prescribed it in that two years. I think this bottle is from a root canal gone wrong, but for my normal work they don't prescribe it. But when they did, the prescribed so much it has lasted two years. THAT is a problem..why can't they prescribe it more often, but in smaller amounts? Give me 3-4 pills after a procedure, that should be plenty. And give it when I might need it (after 3-4 hours in a dentist chair, when I've told you I have jaw pain for days after each session). Not dispense it rarely but then dispense a crap load of pills!  People don't get addicted from a few doses here and there, they get addicted from taking it for a significant amount of time. 

 

But that's how our system works, randomly giving them out, but then giving too many, and then cutting people off. Honestly, it's how you would do it if you were TRYING to get people addicted. 

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Chiropractors are under investigation in my state for making some seriously unsupported claims, so I don't think they are the answer to middle aged women's woes. 

 

Some people swear by them, but frankly I think they are rather quacky.

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1. I begged for stronger pain meds when I had an abscessed tooth. I had unmedicated, pitocin induced labor that was less painful than my tooth (which had swollen so badly I looked like a had a baseball in my cheek). It took 3 dentists to give me anything that dented the pain. I admit that I enjoyed the way I felt when on them but when I took the last one (when the pain wasn't as bad) it made me feel awful. I'm thankful for that because if it hadn't I could see how people could become addicted. Going from extreme pain to euphoria is very pleasant. Going from mild pain to nausea is not fun.

 

2. I've never been more thankful for my doctor than I am now reading this post. She's amazing and will do whatever it takes to get answers. She's passionate about her job and had never blown me off for anything.

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Yes, and the balance has to be individual.  My 91 year old mother is in severe pain from her joints, particularly her shoulder.  She will probably be having steroid injections into the joint once she is through physio (there is muscle damage too).  She is incredibly grateful for the opiate pain patches, topped up with half a teaspoon of opiate in the morning when she wakes up in so much pain.

 

At her age, the risk of suicide is great due to the hopelessness brought about by living with eternal, unbearable pain.  I'm very happy if her final years are spent in managed opiate dependency, rather than excruciating pain.

 

In this circumstance I say let her have all the pain meds she wants.

 

My husband's grandmother towards the end of her life drank a lot of vodka.  Nobody batted a lash over that.  She was in dire pain all the time towards the end.  So whatever works. 

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Demerol, Dilaudid and Morphine are in a different family and tend to work for people like you.

 

Yes, deluded and morphine work for me and regular codeine doesn't. But, I'm also an ultra rapid metabolizer, so I get a nice hit all at once, then stuff wears off way too fast. After my surgery I was in a lot of pain in recovery and kept asking for more drugs. Finally they said, "Listen, you've had a LOT of morphine....we can't give you any more". Oops. 

 

I did better once the gas pain was gone. It seems none of the meds do much for that pain. But generally stuff wears off for me much faster than they say it should, everything from pain meds to local anesthetic. (and yes, I'm a red head)

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Ok so you know what is INSANE?!  My water broke at home with my first kid.  So I went to the hospital.  They gave me the option of staying or going home and coming back in the morning.  So I went home.  Nothing got going on it's own and they had to use three different drugs to induce.  I had midwives so they were big on avoiding c-sections.  The first two nights they gave me morphine for pain relief and sleep.  At that point I was feeling kinda frazzled so I agreed to it, but I thought it was rather odd.  Looking back I kinda wished I had not agreed to it, but I still don't really understand why they did that.

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I was given oxycodone after my ACL surgery.  I took it for 2 days before I was bedridden with vertigo-like symptoms (nausea, woozy, dizzy).  After a quick google, I didn't take any more pills, but it took me 2 days before I was normal again (and able to eat stuff other than ginger ale and crackers).  Crazy thing is, nobody at the surgery center & none of the care directions that came home with me, indicated that this might happen or might be a common reaction/intolerance.

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Why?

Wisdom teeth removal should only need 3-5 days of pain meds.

 

Our oral surgeon prescribed prescription strength Motrin to be taken on schedule and 10 pills of hydrocodone in case the Motrin were insufficient. I was hesitant for DS to take the Hydrocodone, but it was necessary, for a day or two.

 

Does one really get addicted from such a short time span?

 

I personally cannot tolerate the stuff. I had a prescription after my gallbladder surgery and it just made me nauseous and feel horrible. Guess I'm lucky.

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This thread reminds me and maybe someone here can answer this. I am not affected by hydrocodone or oxycodone. I don't get a buzz. My pain doesn't go away. I didn't complain to the doctors because I just took 800mg ibuprofen (a doctor told me that was prescription strength) and it helped a little, but didn't take the pain away completely. I can't take Tylenol because it never helps and I can't take more than 2 at a time. Any ideas on why pain meds don't seem to work for me? My fear is I'll end up in the hospital in severe pain for some reason, and the meds won't help and the doctors will think I'm a drug seeking patient because I'll complain what they're giving isn't enough. I think I've been on one other pain med but I can't remember what it was and I don't remember that helping all that much either.

 

I'm one of those people-- I do not respond to anything related to codine.  I've had major surgeries and severe injuries with only 2-3 ibuprofen to help take the edge off of the pain-- not fun!

I did have an ER doc once question me about being a drug-seeker-- until my cardiologist stopped by and set him straight!  My chart if full of Dr notes about me 'refusing' pain meds (Oxy, vicodin...).  There are a few pain meds I know that I respond to-- I'm reserving those for true emergencies.

 

 

 

 

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Chiropractors are under investigation in my state for making some seriously unsupported claims, so I don't think they are the answer to middle aged women's woes. 

 

Yeah, I see a lot of that here as well.  OUr national chiropractor's association makes it clear, for example, that they are not allowed to give clients advice about things like vaccinations that are outside their scope of practice, but a lot do anyway.  It's really common to see them promote themselves as primary caregivers.

 

The research says the only thing chiropractic care is useful for at all is short term relief of acute back pain.  I don't generally think that research of that kind is useful for everything, but there really isn't anything about chiro care that should be especially hard to study.

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I was given oxycodone after my ACL surgery.  I took it for 2 days before I was bedridden with vertigo-like symptoms (nausea, woozy, dizzy).  After a quick google, I didn't take any more pills, but it took me 2 days before I was normal again (and able to eat stuff other than ginger ale and crackers).  Crazy thing is, nobody at the surgery center & none of the care directions that came home with me, indicated that this might happen or might be a common reaction/intolerance.

 

This is pretty much my reaction to Percocet.  Didn't help the pain at all, but as soon as I stood up, I was so dizzy I felt like I had to fall over.  Soooo not helpful!!!  So now I'm in the same amount of pain, but can't stand up.  Thanks.  It also didn't make me feel 'good' in any way.  I've heard people say how 'nice' Percocet makes them feel.  Nope.  No idea what they're talking about.

 

Tylenol with codeine does nothing for me either, well not any more than normal Tylenol.

 

Demerol, on the other hand, just knocks me out.  They gave me that once at the hospital, and I couldn't stay awake for 7 hours (I'd come to, but right back out).  I suppose that's one way to relieve pain.

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Any kind of opiate makes me throw up. And, it doesn't really relieve the pain, but does make me not care about it so much. I got dilaudid once for a kidney stone and every time the nurse opened the door and the hallway lights hit me in the face I started heaving. In a totally dark room while I kept completely still it was alright.

 

NSAIDS work great for me though. I was so thankful for Toradol the last time I had a stone. And, they don't make me feel fuzzy or drugged out at all.

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Where are these doctors who are handing out opiates like candy? I've yet to meet one.

I recently had a very severe ankle sprain- bad enough that I was in extreme pain, I'm now waiting to see a specialist, and everyone has told me I would've been much better off had I just broken the ankle. The ER sent me home with a prescription for 12 Vicodins, no refills. It's the very first time I've ever been given a narcotic. 

That said (and totally TMI alert, BTW): I took a grand total of three of the pills. Three. That's it. And I couldn't go to the bathroom for a week. That discomfort was terrible and something I wish to never repeat. Plus, I never even felt anything from the Vicodin. It might as well have been a sugar pill for all that it helped, so it's totally not worth it to me to take again. 

Constipation is one of the most common side effects of any opiate, and it was so awful that I can't figure out how you could ever take enough to become addicted in the first place: my bowels just would not allow me to take any more. A friend who just went through rehab though told me that there were several people in the facility with her recovering from heroin addiction and that apparently fecal impaction is a common issue with heroin addicts. Just the mere thought makes me shudder. 

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Well, having had a couple bad teeth that needed root canals, I can tell you that it can go from bearable to utterly unbearable in hours. Last time I was in that situation, the root canal appointment was about 5-7 days after the dentist found the need for it . . . I'd had a few days of pain that was generally controlled up until that point, and the first couple days after I had the opioid RX I was still OK, but suddenly, a couple days before the root canal, my tooth went bananas. The antibiotic took down some of the inflammation and pain, but I did use the stronger pain control for several doses. 

 

So, my guess is that the dentist offers that RX to avoid emergency calls before you get in for the root canal and/or to avoid unhappy patients/clients who are suddenly in terrible pain. 

 

If we had better, universal, free medical and dental care, I imagine the need for dentists or doctors to write those sorts of marginal pain prescriptions would be reduced, because the practitioners would feel confident that any patient could access immediate help if their pain suddenly flared up.

 

Yup - the days leading up to my root canal were the worst pain I've ever been in. My dentist prescribed tylenol w/ codeine and I needed to take them as prescribed just to not be crying in pain. I've never experienced pain like it before or since. I was crying in pain in the waiting room and I have a pretty darn high pain tolerance!

 

When I had my emergency c-section, they tried to have me on percocet. Ugh, that stuff was terrible. I took the first dose or maybe two until I was awake enough the next day to refuse and request advil. The nurses were not happy with me, saying that I needed to stay ahead of the pain. I preferred post surgery pain to the way those percocets made me feel. And it wasn't that bad. Alternating advil and tylenol every 6 hrs or whenever, was enough to take the edge off and didn't make me nauseous or loopy feeling. 

 

That codeine was the only thing that helped for the darn tooth though. 

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Well, having had a couple bad teeth that needed root canals, I can tell you that it can go from bearable to utterly unbearable in hours. Last time I was in that situation, the root canal appointment was about 5-7 days after the dentist found the need for it . . . I'd had a few days of pain that was generally controlled up until that point, and the first couple days after I had the opioid RX I was still OK, but suddenly, a couple days before the root canal, my tooth went bananas. The antibiotic took down some of the inflammation and pain, but I did use the stronger pain control for several doses. 

 

So, my guess is that the dentist offers that RX to avoid emergency calls before you get in for the root canal and/or to avoid unhappy patients/clients who are suddenly in terrible pain. 

 

If we had better, universal, free medical and dental care, I imagine the need for dentists or doctors to write those sorts of marginal pain prescriptions would be reduced, because the practitioners would feel confident that any patient could access immediate help if their pain suddenly flared up.

 

Yes, I think that is the reason.

 

I would not say that a universal care system would make a huge difference though.  In my experience they don't necessarily want you to come back in three days just to get a prescription - it just isn't that efficient, it might be hard on the patient's side to get in, and it could easily happen that it was in the night or some other time when it would be more difficult. 

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This thread reminds me and maybe someone here can answer this. I am not affected by hydrocodone or oxycodone. I don't get a buzz. My pain doesn't go away. I didn't complain to the doctors because I just took 800mg ibuprofen (a doctor told me that was prescription strength) and it helped a little, but didn't take the pain away completely. I can't take Tylenol because it never helps and I can't take more than 2 at a time. Any ideas on why pain meds don't seem to work for me? My fear is I'll end up in the hospital in severe pain for some reason, and the meds won't help and the doctors will think I'm a drug seeking patient because I'll complain what they're giving isn't enough. I think I've been on one other pain med but I can't remember what it was and I don't remember that helping all that much either.

 

In your situation, I would look into non-medication ways of managing pain. Many of them if they don't work will at least not harm anything but possibly your bank balance. Hypnotherapy techniques, acupuncture, etc.

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One of my kids (9yo) had a couple of cavities filled without any pain killers, and the dentist people acted like it was the weirdest thing ever.  :p  My kid has a high pain tolerance.  Weird or not, maybe it will be a good thing in the long run.

 

My DD toughed it out and had them finish up on a filling when the painkiller wore off before they were done, and when she had her tonsils out refused to take the narcotic liquid pain med they prescribed because it tasted nasty and made her throw up.

 

Yet chronic pain she will whine about. Go figure.

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After the birth of my DS I kept mentioning to my dr I was really tired all the time. I thought maybe it was my thyroid. He said it was just because I was a mom. Fast forward to last year and I find out I have a rare blood cancer.... But I could probably get all the pain killers and anti depressants I want. Our medical system is so messed up.

 

I  I think these are difficult issues for any doctor to get right.

 

It's a bit of a catch-22 for doctors - they can do too much, or they can do too little.  Both can lead to bad outcomes.  A lot of diagnosis is about probability. A lot of patients push for more even when it is inappropriate.

 

Mechanistic flow-chart type care is a big problem, but I think we have to realize that in many cases, there is just no sure way to get a perfect answer.  The two probably play off of each other - if they follow the accepted course for any type of complaint (offer pain control which as someone said is a big deal these days, offer anti-depressants) they can say they did everything that could be expected.

Edited by Bluegoat
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I think they key word here is managed. So many doctors prescribe more than needed, then cut the patient off cold turkey. That's how you end up with people addicted to heroin!

 

I have NOTHING against opioids. I in fact like vicodin more than I should, honestly. It is the only opiod that really helps my pain,and it makes me feel really good. I won't lie, I enjoy taking it. BUT, I only take it when I need it (I've had SO much dental work done in the last two years, and weight loss surgery). I'm very aware not to take more than I need, and to be strict, because I do enjoy the way it makes me feel. Oddly, tylenol with codeine does nothing for my pain and makes me feel like crap. 

 

The other thing is, I'm still using the same bottle of vicodin for a year or two ago. After 3 or more hours in the dentist chair (my new norm), yes, I generally take a dose if I need it. And I usually do. My mouth is small, to the point that they have to stretch and bruise me to get access tot he back teeth. I right now have a bit of a black eye from dental work last week! But, I take one dose in the evening, so I can sleep without pain. Or right when I get home, and then in the evening. I can only take limited advil, due to the weight loss surgery, so this keeps me comfortable. But....no dentist has offered or prescribed it in that two years. I think this bottle is from a root canal gone wrong, but for my normal work they don't prescribe it. But when they did, the prescribed so much it has lasted two years. THAT is a problem..why can't they prescribe it more often, but in smaller amounts? Give me 3-4 pills after a procedure, that should be plenty. And give it when I might need it (after 3-4 hours in a dentist chair, when I've told you I have jaw pain for days after each session). Not dispense it rarely but then dispense a crap load of pills!  People don't get addicted from a few doses here and there, they get addicted from taking it for a significant amount of time. 

 

But that's how our system works, randomly giving them out, but then giving too many, and then cutting people off. Honestly, it's how you would do it if you were TRYING to get people addicted. 

 

 

Part of this could be the way insurance and copays work. DD had a med check appointment on Wednesday, so I wanted to hold off on filling her Strattera scrip (expensive med, high copay) completely in case it was going to be changed.

 

Turns out copay for buying just 2 pills was the same as buying a month's worth, because 2 pills cost more out of pocket than the copay.

 

A doctor who knows you're going to need 30 pills over the course of a month, and that it will be a $10 copay if he prescribes all 30 at once, rather than a prescription for 3 pills at a time that will cost a $10 copay x10, may see it as doing the patient a favor to prescribe in a larger quantity. 

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Some people swear by them, but frankly I think they are rather quacky.

 

I think it would be fair to say that not all chiros are equal.

 

And when it comes to it, some of the doctors described on this post are rather quacky, too.

I don't think quackery is limited to or more likely in any particular philosophy of medicine.

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Where are these doctors who are handing out opiates like candy? I've yet to meet one.

 

In my case? My dentist, two separate urologists, a couple of urgent care docs, and every single ER visit for kidney stones (a total of three--only one for actual pain, and two because the stone was lodged in my ureter and blocking urine flow, and I was worried about infection). Not a single prescriber asked me whether I needed anymore pain meds, and each one prescribed at least two weeks' of Percocet. I even tried to tell the I didn't need anymore, but the the prescription was always in the packet at the end of each visit. I never took even a single one for kidney pain (I've only ever taken them for dental pain), so I had plenty already. My kidney stones are chronic, so I keep a small number of pills handy in case of a kidney stone emergency, and I've shredded all the rest of the paper prescriptions as I got them. 

 

I agree that so often it seems to be a case of doctors doing too much or not enough, but what I've experienced can in no way be considered responsible pain care. And what's really frightening is that it's not just been one or two practitioners out of the whole lot. It has literally been every medical professional I've seen in the management of two kidney stone cycles, several years apart. Oh, and my dentist, whom I love (truly, he's a great guy and an old friend), but whom I wouldn't necessarily consider the most responsible prescriber  :001_rolleyes:

Edited by ILiveInFlipFlops

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Yes, I think that is the reason.

 

I would not say that a universal care system would make a huge difference though.  In my experience they don't necessarily want you to come back in three days just to get a prescription - it just isn't that efficient, it might be hard on the patient's side to get in, and it could easily happen that it was in the night or some other time when it would be more difficult. 

 

It might be interesting to do a stats comparison to countries with universal health care. But which stats would be the most telling?

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Yes, I think that is the reason.

 

I would not say that a universal care system would make a huge difference though.  In my experience they don't necessarily want you to come back in three days just to get a prescription - it just isn't that efficient, it might be hard on the patient's side to get in, and it could easily happen that it was in the night or some other time when it would be more difficult. 

 

What I've seen under the NHS is just-in-case prescriptions: to avoid people having to go to accident and emergency clinics out of hours because of a change of circumstance, a prescription might be given, to be filled if necessary.

 

FWIW: the way my mother's pain management has worked (since she came to stay with me) is that she has had short prescriptions and frequent scheduled visits (ever week or two) until her situation stabilised.  Only then was the medication put onto a repeat prescription that she can refill.

 

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I do think some of these drugs are addictive (for some people at least) in a very short time frame.  I don't know the scientific facts, just talking from observation.  Whatever the facts are, someone should publish this information for the general public.

 

As for whether chiros are good for much other than back pain, I could say the same of MDs (statistically) when it comes to a lot of things people go there for.  Especially when you consider how much bang you get for your buck.  Most people I know (myself included) get little or no relief most times they go to an MD, though they pay $100s per minute for the privilege.  I guess MDs are best for some things, though I've yet to be in a situation where an MD gave me more help than a chiro.

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I do think some of these drugs are addictive (for some people at least) in a very short time frame.  I don't know the scientific facts, just talking from observation.  Whatever the facts are, someone should publish this information for the general public.

 

As for whether chiros are good for much other than back pain, I could say the same of MDs (statistically) when it comes to a lot of things people go there for.  Especially when you consider how much bang you get for your buck.  Most people I know (myself included) get little or no relief most times they go to an MD, though they pay $100s per minute for the privilege.  I guess MDs are best for some things, though I've yet to be in a situation where an MD gave me more help than a chiro.

 

The main issue I have with chiros is, how do you decide if the treatment they reccomend is actually efficacious/safe/whatever?  There isn't really anything in the way of evidence based information, and even the things they seem to treat most effectively and with least controversy are in areas where it is notorious difficult to tell what really works and what doesn't. 

 

The only option seems to be looking at the theory and if it at least makes sense, but that is a little fraught too.

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The main issue I have with chiros is, how do you decide if the treatment they reccomend is actually efficacious/safe/whatever?  There isn't really anything in the way of evidence based information, and even the things they seem to treat most effectively and with least controversy are in areas where it is notorious difficult to tell what really works and what doesn't. 

 

The only option seems to be looking at the theory and if it at least makes sense, but that is a little fraught too.

 

Sometimes we take a leap of faith and find out it works for us.  That was my experience.

 

I do think there is enough information out there to justify a leap of faith.  I'm sure there would be statistics if there were a significant number of people being killed or injured by chiropractors.  We would hear about it.  But we don't.  So it must be relatively safe.  We hear plenty about medical malpractice.  Possibly the reason it costs so much more to go to an MD is that medical malpractice insurance is so high.  Why isn't that the case with chiropractors?

 

I'm sure there are bad chiropractors.  I wouldn't go to the ones who sent me ads after my last car accident.  :P  I wouldn't go to the lawyers either.  :P  Like with an MD, you go in there physically and get a feel for the practice and the practitioner.

 

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Where are these doctors who are handing out opiates like candy? I've yet to meet one.

 

I recently had a very severe ankle sprain- bad enough that I was in extreme pain, I'm now waiting to see a specialist, and everyone has told me I would've been much better off had I just broken the ankle. The ER sent me home with a prescription for 12 Vicodins, no refills. It's the very first time I've ever been given a narcotic.

 

That said (and totally TMI alert, BTW): I took a grand total of three of the pills. Three. That's it. And I couldn't go to the bathroom for a week. That discomfort was terrible and something I wish to never repeat. Plus, I never even felt anything from the Vicodin. It might as well have been a sugar pill for all that it helped, so it's totally not worth it to me to take again.

 

Constipation is one of the most common side effects of any opiate, and it was so awful that I can't figure out how you could ever take enough to become addicted in the first place: my bowels just would not allow me to take any more. A friend who just went through rehab though told me that there were several people in the facility with her recovering from heroin addiction and that apparently fecal impaction is a common issue with heroin addicts. Just the mere thought makes me shudder.

That's probably the reason there's a commercial that runs repeatedly now advertising a drug for opioid constipation. Too many pain-pill addicts who can't poop? We've got a pill for that!! Beware of all the side effects...
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The main issue I have with chiros is, how do you decide if the treatment they reccomend is actually efficacious/safe/whatever?  There isn't really anything in the way of evidence based information, and even the things they seem to treat most effectively and with least controversy are in areas where it is notorious difficult to tell what really works and what doesn't. 

 

The only option seems to be looking at the theory and if it at least makes sense, but that is a little fraught too.

 

It would not generally be the first thing I'd try.  I'd consider it if other things didn't work.

 

I don't trust doctors in general though.  So it's always challenging for me to go to any doctor at all.  So if I manage to go I don't want to mess around with something I have doubts about.

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There is a risk of stroke from chiropractic manipulation of the neck 

https://www.sciencebasedmedicine.org/stroke-death-from-chiropractic-neck-manipulation/

http://www.medscape.com/viewarticle/726445

https://www.theguardian.com/science/blog/2012/apr/27/chiropractic-manipulation-spine-strokes

"Well over 500 cases have been documented where a patient has suffered a stroke after getting his or her neck manipulated and many have died subsequently. What seems to happen is that certain manipulations carried out by chiropractors - particularly those that involve forceful rotation of the neck to one side - may over-stretch an artery that runs along the spine. If that happens this vessel can dissect or disintegrate, resulting in a blockage of blood flow to the brain, ie. a stroke."

 

full disclosure: I used to see a chirpractor regularly. I went to one all through pregnancy to keep my back aligned. I love having my thoracic & lower back adjusted. I stopped going when I figured out how to adjust myself. I adjust my kids thoracic spine, they do their own ilio-sacral. Ds does my thoracic. I think it feels nice. I don't buy any of the nonsense about meridians, energy pooling and vague symptoms which are supposed to be relieved by adjustments. It just feels good. If you have a nerve pinched, it usually will need muscle work & for that massage therapy is more helpful IMO. I think massage therapy (& for bigger injury, PT) is just as efficacious and carries less risk. 


edited to fix link 

Edited by hornblower
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Why?

Wisdom teeth removal should only need 3-5 days of pain meds.

I distinctly remember sitting on my couch after the last pill from my wisdom teeth removal had worn off and rocking back and forth because of the pain and feeling like I needed more. It never occurred to me to ask for more but I can see how it starts very easily.

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There is a risk of stroke from chiropractic manipulation of the neck 

 

https://www.sciencebasedmedicine.org/stroke-death-from-chiropractic-neck-manipulation/

 

http://www.medscape.com/viewarticle/726445

 

https://www.theguardian.com/science/blog/2012/apr/27/chiropractic-manipulation-spine-strokes

 

"Well over 500 cases have been documented where a patient has suffered a stroke after getting his or her neck manipulated and many have died subsequently. What seems to happen is that certain manipulations carried out by chiropractors - particularly those that involve forceful rotation of the neck to one side - may over-stretch an artery that runs along the spine. If that happens this vessel can dissect or disintegrate, resulting in a blockage of blood flow to the brain, ie. a stroke."

 

full disclosure: I used to see a chirpractor regularly. I went to one all through pregnancy to keep my back aligned. I love having my thoracic & lower back adjusted. I stopped going when I figured out how to adjust myself. I adjust my kids thoracic spine, they do their own ilio-sacral. Ds does my thoracic. I think it feels nice. I don't buy any of the nonsense about meridians, energy pooling and vague symptoms which are supposed to be relieved by adjustments. It just feels good. If you have a nerve pinched, it usually will need muscle work & for that massage therapy is more helpful IMO. I think massage therapy (& for bigger injury, PT) is just as efficacious and carries less risk. 

 

 

edited to fix link 

 

I was only able to access the third linked article.

 

That article admits that causation for the 500 strokes mentioned above is unclear as the data is insufficient and goes both ways.  A lot of people have strokes; it's a leading cause of death.

 

The small study they did was not particularly convincing to me.  I mean, sure, there are probably chiropractors who make mistakes, just like there are many MDs who make mistakes.  It doesn't prove the practice in general is unsafe.

 

The way they say all this is underrerported seems illogical to me.  I mean, if it has never been reported as happening ever, that is evidence that it probably happens all the time?  It seems to me that if I had a patient come in with a severe injury that I believed was caused by chiropractic, I would have reported that.

 

Keeping in mind that the MDs are in competition with the chiros, I maintain a measure of skepticism.

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Why?

Wisdom teeth removal should only need 3-5 days of pain meds.

Right the pain doesn't last long but kids take the leftover pills and get high. One oral surgeon here in town has been known to write a 30 day script!! Here's an article that talks about what my friends are dealing with. It's heartbreaking.

 

http://m.huffpost.com/us/entry/teens-turned-drug-addicts_n_5877306.html

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Getting the prescription for my tooth pain was probably the second time I'd been given Oxy for pain ever. The first time I did okay with it (this was post-surgical and at home for a few days) and had no withdrawal symptoms. A nurse friend of mine told me that opiates are like that...the next time I took it, it was setting me up for addiction (and this was 3 years later). 

I do fine with Tylenol #3, never have had an addiction problem with it, used it to treat menstrual cramps as needed off and on when I was in my 20s. Strange that I don't hear about it being used as often. I wonder why.

Percocet made me feel awful. 

I'm very sorry for anyone who has someone in their lives, or they themselves, who are in continual pain or frequent pain that can't be relieved.  :grouphug:

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Why?

Wisdom teeth removal should only need 3-5 days of pain meds.

Some addictions happen instantly.

Sometimes one who is taking the meds gets confused and takes too many. I just lost a young friend this way. :0(

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Some addictions happen instantly.

Sometimes one who is taking the meds gets confused and takes too many. I just lost a young friend this way. :0(

I'm sorry. I went to a funeral last month for a young man whose life ended way too young, in the same fashion.

 

Heartbreaking.

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(Snip)

 

If I were an unethical person I could have a nice side business selling meds.

I joked with my dh that I could donate the 80 doses to the auction for the church building fund. :::eyeroll:::

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I think for a long time there was a real problem in ignoring real pain at times, and so there was a big push to treat real pain and now the pendulum has swung too far in the other direction. I do think the aggressive pushing if pain mess is wrong, but I'm just saying that I think this is where it comes from.

 

Yes.

 

In my experience whatever doctors and PAs and NPs are being taught about women's bodies must be really, really bad. My former doctor was all too willing to prescribe anti-anxiety medication and he tried to push a sleeping pill on me multiple times. What I really, really needed him to do was thoroughly check my thyroid function. It took years to finally get that diagnosis and get medicated for it, which pretty well cured all the issues I was having. But even after that my chart on his portal said "anxiety and [whatever the medical term is for menopausal related issues]." He never added my hypothyroidism diagnosis! Needless to say I found another provider to try (a female PA). At her office last week I was asked twice--once by the nurse and once again by the PA--if I was in any pain. I was there just to get my thyroid checked and get a new prescription for levothyroxine. What the heck with all the questions about pain?!?

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I've got a mouthful of fillings, most of which were filled without any painkiller at all - except for a few fillings that were redone as an adult, which I had novocaine for because I've turned into a wuss now that I am older :)

One of my kids (9yo) had a couple of cavities filled without any pain killers, and the dentist people acted like it was the weirdest thing ever. :P My kid has a high pain tolerance. Weird or not, maybe it will be a good thing in the long run.

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