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"Mother's Day is for all women"


Moxie
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I was once asked, "Do you feel guilty on Mother's Day?" When I asked why, the person replied, "Well, don't you think your kids' real mothers feel sad?"

 

Ok, first of all, who in the world thinks this is an appropriate question? Second, this person knew nothing about my kids' circumstances. And lastly, WTF? Really?

:svengo:

 

 

I don't have strong feelings about this, but I will say that I try to remember that not everyone who has had a baby has a child to celebrate with on Mother's Day.  If you knew a woman had lost a child, you would be considerate of that on Mother's Day.  But chances are, some people you know have lost a child and you aren't aware of it.  Or they might be working on becoming a mom, and you might not know that either.

 

I agree with just letting everyone celebrate however they feel right celebrating.  How does it matter to me?

 

My dad and sister recognized me on Mother's Day 2007, when I was in the adoption process but had neither legal nor physical custody of my kids.  I was so touched.  I hope nobody else was offended by my family's kind gestures.

 

:001_wub:

 

 

Those two examples pretty much define the spectrum of possible responses.

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I personally have no problem enjoying a day for me (as my children like to celebrate it) and at the same time thinking of others who can't have it. Like, having empathy for those with less is not considered a big burden for me. It's part and parcel with being a decent human.

Again, there is nothing wrong with recognizing that Mother's Day (or other holidays) are hard for people and caring for those people in the ways you can. That's an appropriate thing to do. What is not appropriate is calling other people out for enjoying the holiday and not making their celebration (or lack thereof) about your feelings.

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One of my Facebook friends is a pastor. He posted on Saturday night that they would not be celebrating Mother's Day at his church. He acknowledged that there were many emotions around Mother's Day and felt that church should be a place of healing and not a place that aggravates the pain in your life. As someone who used to skip Mother's Day at church after my stillbirths because they always had baby dedications, I appreciated that. It's not like the mothers weren't going to go to lunch or otherwise celebrate after church, so it didn't hurt to be sensitive for that one hour. 

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No, you're just being thoughtless and unkind to the many many women who have put in hours of toil as teachers, nursery heads, babysitters, and in other ways to help raise the children of others, with not a fraction of the reward mothers get.

 

I personally support International Women's Day (March 8th) over Mother's Day for this very reason.

 

I know a woman who wanted to have children then adopt but it never happened then her husband died.

 

How incredibly cruel and petty to say to someone like her, "Well it's not really for you, I did the tough work."

 

It is for this reason that I seriously, seriously dislike Mother's Day.

 

I would agree that pets don't count, but then, I just hate the whole idea of a pissing contest over how many babies you can pop out of your hoo-hah. BTW I do know one person, well met her once, who said that c-sections didn't count. YES. She said that. "So I'm not a mother?" asked another woman. "Well it's just not the same." The words I have for that woman are UNPRINTABLE.

 

"Excuse me! Excuse me! I thought you were barren? What are those flowers for, then?"

 

If you wouldn't say that aloud, then why are you posting this? A barren woman is reading it and she is in pain because of you. She read it, you know?

 

Just because she didn't have children or lost them doesn't mean she can't read and she doesn't know you think that you deserve a day and she doesn't.

I have no idea what it is like in your area but, in my town, "teachers, nursery heads, babysitters, and in other ways to help raise the children of others" get plenty of recognition sometimes in the form of a salary! The school my kids attend has an entire committee devoted to appreciating the staff! But, I would in no way compare teaching, babysitting, etc, to mothering.

 

If you have a mother-figure in your life, by all means, celebrate her!! I think you are the only person on this thread who has said anything about the number of babies popped out. I'm not sure what one crazy person's opinion about c-sections has to do with the conversation.

 

I still take issue with the idea that all women are nurturers therefore all women should be celebrated on MD. I help DH with work on occasion but that doesn't mean I need flowers on Secretary's Day.

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I don't get churches that celebrate Mother's Day (or Father's Day).  I've been subjected to the flower tradition on MD - all mothers get a flower, red or white, depending on if their mom is alive or... not.  I experienced this for the first (and only) time on my first MD after my mother died in January.  Nice lady getting ready to pin a flower on me:  "and you do you still have your mother?"  Ugh. 

 

But, rant aside, I don't get MD references, special sermons, etc. I can see a mention of it during announcements or something.  But big deal, sermons focusing on it... I don't understand why churches do this. 

 

 

I also find it a little odd.  I think it tends to be a big focus in churches that make a big deal about procreation.

 

My tradition is a little different - we tend to have Mothering Sunday which is a different date.  It has to do with the collect (prayer) for the day which is about relief from punishment for evil, and the lesson which is about Jerusalem being our mother.  So the focus is actually on the Church as mother.

 

To some extent this spills over to thoughts of motherhood more generally, and in the UK it is traditional day when mothers are visited.  Now its like mother's day here and very commercialized and over the top, but that really wasn't the original intent.

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To me the issue with the idea that it is for all women is that it really makes the idea of aknowledging motherhood in some way meaningless.

 

We could just as easily say - well, why exclude men, and why not say mother's day is for everyone.

 

And so on for birthdays, children's day, Rememberance Day, whatever.  If mother is the same as father or teacher, the word no longer has meaning, language only works by delineating things. 

 

The reason to set aside a day is usually, when it is done well, to help us remember to do something or think about something.

 

Of course sometimes people are sad on these kinds of days.  On all of them - people who have lost someone are often sad on their birthday.  But part of ther reason there is sadness is because those days actually do have meaning for us.  Trying to make them less sad, by either asking people to keep quiet about them, or trying to widen them to the point that they don't concern the meaning any more, makes no sense to me.  It's like asking for the meaning of the thing that is making me sad to be destroyed so I no longer have to feel about it.

 

 

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The reverse of that is 'why can't people stop pouring salt into other people's wounds?'

 

 

I think a better question is 'why can't we just be mature?'

I have to quote this since I can't 'like' it.

 

And honestly, I've also got to agree with tsuga. I find the complaint of this thread really bizarre. I don't particularly like MD. Don't have a great mom, have almost no relationship with her. I do feel sad and upset sometimes when i look at fb, but that is my issue. I would hope that if i ever expressed that to my friends they'd actually hear me and not get mad about it. Have wonderful kids and DH who make me feel special. It's no skin off my nose if my childless SIL wants to celebrate being a fur-mom. All the women at church (very small church) get a flower from the kids - I can honestly say that each one of the women have been a mother-figure to me or someone else at church - those that have children and those that don't. Why on earth would that bother me? Granted, there is no mention of mother's day in church behind that, so maybe I just don't see how over the top it is.

 

Idk. Let people celebrate what it means to them without it bothering you.

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It is a hallmark holidqy. The more people they can claim should be "honored", the more ards and gifts they sell. There is a day or a month for everything! It is a bit nutty, amd money is the reason all these days exist. The grerting card and expensive knicknack industry make a killing off it. Florists too.

 

I do find it quite bizarre that there is a National Holiday requiring the closing of banks and government offices for a total scum bag like Columbus, but Mother's Day and Father's Day is on Sunday. It is offensive that Columbus gets the same deference as MLK.

 

Anyway, it is all about corporate profit. I am not a big fan of all of these "days". Dh did make lunch though so that was nice since I do not enjoy cooking.

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DH and I went out for lunch on Mother's Day one year, before we had kids. The hostess at the restaurant gave me a flower and told me my meal would be free because it was Mother's Day! "Actually, I don't have any kids--not a mom yet." Well, we'd still like to honor you with the flower and free meal! "Um...okay."

 

DH and I started calling it "Women Who Have Reached or Passed Childbearing Age Day" after that.

 

 

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No, mother's day is not for all women. It is, however, a day to honor women who fulfill a mother role your life. Whether that is your birth mom, step-mom, grandma, aunt, close family friend, teacher, sister, whomever. It is a day to give them the gift of your time.

 

You can honor mother without a hallmark card. Well, you can honor me without one, my mil, otoh, equates the price of the card with how much you love her. Never mind that the $8 I just spent on your card had to be taken out of our food budget. As long as you feel loved.

 

Every holiday is sad for someone. Since my father passed I can't say I find father's day particularly joyful. That doesn't mean I suck the joy out of it for dh and my fil.

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Mother's day is for mothers. And no, your "fur babies" don't count.

 

But whatever, I hate this stupid holiday. I've never had a good mother's day, like ever. So dog owners and childless women can have it.

 

Amen!

 

this!  a thousand times this!

 

I was married for over 10 years before I had a child. I absolutely poured my maternal instincts into my dog during that time and after. No, I didn't celebrate Mother's Day with him, but if I had wanted to do so, how would have that affected you? Why do you feel the need to sneer at other people's choices?

 

I make no apology for caring deeply about my animals. God does. They are living creatures with souls and thus it is no surprise they are able to feel and show love, joy, sympathy, and friendship. You don't get to decide if they "count" in my life. They do, and I thank God for them.  :)

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To me the issue with the idea that it is for all women is that it really makes the idea of aknowledging motherhood in some way meaningless.

 

We could just as easily say - well, why exclude men, and why not say mother's day is for everyone.

 

And so on for birthdays, children's day, Rememberance Day, whatever.  If mother is the same as father or teacher, the word no longer has meaning, language only works by delineating things. 

 

The reason to set aside a day is usually, when it is done well, to help us remember to do something or think about something.

 

Of course sometimes people are sad on these kinds of days.  On all of them - people who have lost someone are often sad on their birthday.  But part of ther reason there is sadness is because those days actually do have meaning for us.  Trying to make them less sad, by either asking people to keep quiet about them, or trying to widen them to the point that they don't concern the meaning any more, makes no sense to me.  It's like asking for the meaning of the thing that is making me sad to be destroyed so I no longer have to feel about it.

 

I recently read a blog post advocating just this - her dh is a stay at home dad while she works, so he should be celebrated on mother's day (she advocated sahds be publically recognized as 'equivalent to mothers'  - ON MD.)

umm, - it's great she recognizes what her dh does for their family - but that's why we have father's day. . . . .

 

or maybe she thinks the traditional father role (working to support their families) doesn't' contribute as much was women, so father's day is not  as meaningful?

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I was married for over 10 years before I had a child. I absolutely poured my maternal instincts into my dog during that time and after. No, I didn't celebrate Mother's Day with him, but if I had wanted to do so, how would have that affected you? Why do you feel the need to sneer at other people's choices?

 

I make no apology for caring deeply about my animals. God does. They are living creatures with souls and thus it is no surprise they are able to feel and show love, joy, sympathy, and friendship. You don't get to decide if they "count" in my life. They do, and I thank God for them.  :)

 

God also recongizes the difference between animals and humans.

and no one is advocating not caring about animals - either pets or stock.

 

eta: I've also known a few women who prefer their animals to their own  minor children . . . . I find that heartbreaking for their children.

Edited by gardenmom5
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God also recongizes the difference between animals and humans.

 

Of course, and I'm sure He recognizes that many of them have kinder hearts than the humans surrounding them.

 

ETA: I'm sorry if this seems snarky. I just don't get why people care so much about what other people do that they feel the need to mock them.

Edited by MercyA
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Everyone has a mother.

No. I had a woman who gave birth to me. But I never had a mother.

 

 

Of course I would never to anything to lessen other people's enjoyment of the day. I like all the pictures and stuff. I'm glad many people have such great mothers!

Georgia

Edited by Georgia in NC
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I HATE mothers day. In 2007 I had given birth to 3 children who had all died. I was not yet pregnant with my "oldest" living child. That year the church had all mother's stand at the end of service in recognition of the day. I LOST it. I didn't have children that people could see and it killed me. Ever since that day I actually dread going to church on mother's day. I know that this is MY pain, but it is still painful. I have friends who are single but not by choice. They want children but they also want a husband. They are my age and honestly time has just about ran out of them. 

 

I also know that there are others that love the spotlight and all that mother's day is. I actually envy you. I wish I could go about life in a way where I am not jaded by my experiences. 

 

So you please go out and enjoy it. But as for me I will celebrate "Woman's Day" as motherhood shouldn't be a club.

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I guess I am of two minds about this - I get how it can be painful for some people who really want to be mothers but aren't, but also it's stretching things to say it is for "all women", esp. since many women choose not to be mothers and therefore it seems would not want to be honored for something they choose not to participate in. 

 

I guess for me, if I know that someone is hurting on Mother's day, I would try to say something to them to acknowledge their pain, but I'm not going to go out of my way to acknowledge the presumed pain of people I don't know.

 

ETA - I also have no problem honoring those who do the physical or emotional work of mothering, be they aunts, family friends, etc. regardless of their biological connection or status in the home as a "mother".

Edited by emba56
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I don't think I've run into "mother's day is for all women" type celebrations, but I have been a part of events that just acknowledged a wide range of experiences. If you are 19 and not even near thinking about being a mother, I don't see how you would relate to this other than "whatevs" (unless your mother passed) because you are still in the "someone's child" category as it relates to this holiday, not the "mother/mothering" category. If you don't want children, then I'd imagine you'd think the holiday isn't for you, just like Jews don't celebrate Christmas.

 

But for those whose experiences do touch on some aspect of mothering, and because I think, given that Mother's Day isn't going anywhere, the attempts to have a few course corrections in how we culturally orient ourselves to the day can be helpful and healing without taking anything away from me.

 

I am particularly sensitive to women struggling with infertility and people going through the adoption process but don't have their children yet. Why wouldn't extending the holiday to acknowledge them - if they want to be acknowledged - be a big deal for me?  I also think, for reasons people mentioned before, aunts and godmothers count too. Just doesn't take anything away from me if they are included. 

 

I'm fine with the "free meal" or "discounts" being applied to non-mothers and "other mothers" on Mother's Day if they want to eat. How are people going to realistically check anyway? Whatevs - eat your free meal, and order dessert on top of it because you didn't have to pay for the meal! I'm all for free meals on any day of the year. And I don't need to check everyone else's "mom card" for the day. I kind of think about it like Christmas -- the celebration we do is for my family and me, not for anyone else. I don't go around saying Merry Christmas to random people who may or may not celebrate Christmas. And, I also don't check people's "Christian" credentials before I okay them for celebrating it either. I don't say Happy Mother's Day to every woman I meet, only to my mom, and maybe a few friends that text back and forth with me where I know them well enough to say something meaningful to them about the day. And I also am fine with the Mother's Day specials in restaurants and such. I like flowers and taking time out to celebrate and get away from the regular routine of life. Yep, we could do this any day -- but the discounts are on TODAY.   

 

If you have people guilt tripping you for even enjoying the holiday - I agree, that's their deal. But widening the circle of inclusion -- if you have a problem with "non-mothers" and "not-quite-mothers" being recognized or are too forceful in your "boundaries" for who can be included - that's your deal. Free dessert for everyone who wants it, I say!  Now if you want to talk real, comprehensive policy that actually supports women in this country, that's a whole 'nother thread. That's what I really want ;-). But until then, yes, I'll have the special at 50% off please (because we'll go hungry waiting for progressive policy change, and no sense in doing that).    

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I haven't seen that sentiment, but how odd. You'd never see that on Father's Day. It marginalizes women. A woman is more than a uterus. 

 

And why on earth can't someone have a nice Mother's Day without shouldering the guilt and pain of the rest of the world? 

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I HATE mothers day. In 2007 I had given birth to 3 children who had all died. I was not yet pregnant with my "oldest" living child. That year the church had all mother's stand at the end of service in recognition of the day. I LOST it. I didn't have children that people could see and it killed me. Ever since that day I actually dread going to church on mother's day. I know that this is MY pain, but it is still painful. I have friends who are single but not by choice. They want children but they also want a husband. They are my age and honestly time has just about ran out of them. 

 

I also know that there are others that love the spotlight and all that mother's day is. I actually envy you. I wish I could go about life in a way where I am not jaded by my experiences. 

 

So you please go out and enjoy it. But as for me I will celebrate "Woman's Day" as motherhood shouldn't be a club.

 

:grouphug:  :grouphug:  :grouphug:

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1.  Yes, MD is overblown and every business, etc. jumping on the band wagon can be annoying at best, truly wounding at worst.  Saying it is a day for all women is a very slippery slope.  On the flip side of that coin, I see nothing wrong with each family dealing with Mother's Day in the way that works best for that family.  

2.  Me, my mother, my MIL, my grandmothers, my SILs have all lost babies/children and we have not expected others to shoulder our loss by feeling guilty for celebrating Mother's Day in the way they see fit.  

3.  If someone has "furr babies" instead of human babies and it means something to them to celebrate Mother's Day anyway why should that bother me?  (FTR, one of my mother's closest friends has two daughters, neither of which can have children. She has fur grandbabies and they do celebrate being mommies/grandmommy to fur babies.  It makes them happy, they enjoy their celebrations and IMHO it is none of my business or anyone else's how they celebrate or don't celebrate MD.)

4.  Absolutely I would not want to rub salt in someone else's wounds and would try to respect someone else's feelings with regard to MD.  I know how horribly painful this day can be.  On the flip side of that coin I would hope that others would respect that celebrating MD may be beneficial/joyful to someone else and I would never want to take that from them.  I would also hope that people would keep in mind that we never really know what is happening behind closed doors and who is dealing with what.  For some, celebrating MD helps to heal wounds.  

 

Hugs of comfort to those who are hurting.  Hugs of joy to those who are celebrating.

 

Best wishes to all.

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Fur baby story--My BIL died suddenly at the age of 30. A woman came up to my MIL a few weeks after the funeral and said "I'm sorry for your loss. I understand how hard it is. My horse just died".

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Fur baby story--My BIL died suddenly at the age of 30. A woman came up to my MIL a few weeks after the funeral and said "I'm sorry for your loss. I understand how hard it is. My horse just died".

 

:banghead:

 

There should be a mandatory "What not to say to someone grieving" course before you can legally be an adult.

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 imagine you'd think the holiday isn't for you, just like Jews don't celebrate Christmas.  

 

observant jews won't - but some celebrate the secular aspects.  in some non-Christian Asian countries - it can be big for the secular aspect. you should see some of  the Christmas decorations in Dubai. world's most expensive Christmas  tree . . . .

 

 it marginalizes women.  A woman is more than a uterus. 

 

 

speaking of . . . . . adoptive mother's did NOT use a uterus to become a mother.  they are still mothers.

 but then, as a pp said above, some flake told an adoptive mom she wasn't a mom because she didn't use her uterus to give birth to children.

I can give examples  of women who used their uterus - and failed motherhood.

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observant jews won't - but some celebrate the secular aspects.  in some non-Christian Asian countries - it can be big for the secular aspect. you should see some of  the Christmas decorations in Dubai. world's most expensive Christmas  tree . . . .

 

 

speaking of . . . . . adoptive mother's did NOT use a uterus to become a mother.  they are still mothers.

 but then, as a pp said above, some flake told an adoptive mom she wasn't a mom because she didn't use her uterus to give birth to children.

I can give examples  of women who used their uterus - and failed motherhood.

 

Yes, a woman is more than a uterus, and a mother is more than a uterus!

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Actual Facebook post from a first-time pregnant "Fur Mommy"

 

"I've taken care of cats for years. Kids shouldn't be a big deal."

 

*Big eye roll.* Oh how I laughed at that. I never asked about the feeling once the baby arrived. 

 

Pets are not children. If I can only rescue either a stranger's child or my pet from a burning building, I would rescue the child. I would hope that would be the automatic response for all people. Why? Because I value human life over animal life. It doesn't make me cruel. It makes me human.

 

I have cared deeply for pets and I completely understand the love people have for their pets. I don't care if people want to celebrate Mother's Day when they only have pets though I personally think it's silly. Caring for pets isn't equivalent to raising children. The love isn't equal, at all.

 

I've been thinking about this.

 

children do have priority over animals.  I get tired of animals in stores (I've encountered a lot recently) both in the shopping cart and on the ground, human festivals in tight quarters, walking on popular family paths with off-leash dogs (I dont' care how friendly your loose dog is in a non-off-leash area, my child is deathly afraid of dogs and your pet just caused them to have a panic attack!) -and worst of all, restaurants!

 

at least some places are trying to fight back by posting signs  saying "LEGITIMATE service animals only."

 

;spelling . . . . sigh.

Edited by gardenmom5
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 I don't really understand the kerfluffle. Want to join in the way it's been marketed? Fine. Want to put photos of your beloved fur-babies because that's where the love is? Fine. I don't see it as a swipe to "real moms". Want to get out there and promote peace, love, and no more wars? Great, you're probably more in tune with the original concept of the day. Like someone said, it's more about the word, Mother, as a verb.

 

I'm not sure why Gloria Steinem would be the one to define the "real" meaning of Mother's Day?

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Actual Facebook post from a first-time pregnant "Fur Mommy"

 

"I've taken care of cats for years. Kids shouldn't be a big deal."

 

*Big eye roll.* Oh how I laughed at that. I never asked about the feeling once the baby arrived. 

 

Pets are not children. If I can only rescue either a stranger's child or my pet from a burning building, I would rescue the child. I would hope that would be the automatic response for all people. Why? Because I value human life over animal life. It doesn't make me cruel. It makes me human.

 

I have cared deeply for pets and I completely understand the love people have for their pets. I don't care if people want to celebrate Mother's Day when they only have pets though I personally think it's silly. Caring for pets isn't equivalent to raising children. The love isn't equal, at all.

 

Of all the pets that might give a glimpse of what parenthood would be like, cats are the last I would think of!

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I haven't seen that sentiment, but how odd. You'd never see that on Father's Day. It marginalizes women. A woman is more than a uterus. 

 

And why on earth can't someone have a nice Mother's Day without shouldering the guilt and pain of the rest of the world? 

 

Not to be argumentative - but tongue-in-cheek - I have seen people suggest maybe single moms should be recognized on Father's Day.

 

As a single mom, I say:  no thanks!  :)

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As someone who doesn't love MD, because of my own horrible mother, I don't understand why there has to be such a dichotomy.  MD is a very difficult day for me and frankly, I hate it.  That doesn't stop me from being happy for my friends who have wonderful mothers and really enjoy this day.  Sadness & happiness can coexist - are there people who have to actually forget that there is sadness in the world in order to be happy?  

 

As I said before, I don't post on FB how I hate MD.  But I would expect friends who love MD to understand and have empathy for people who don't have their same mother experience.  When people post stuff on FB about being unhappy, it isn't usually to guilt anyone but it's because they don't feel understood; they think their pain is invisible.  While I don't post on FB, I have felt those feelings and it's a pretty awful place to be.  Some compassion & understanding would be nice.

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I saw a Facebook post of a friend my dd's age- she is 23. She said that at her church they gave all women flowers because they wanted to honor single women and also married women who haven't started a family.  And dd's friend said she felt 'validated'. But...she's not a mom, she's a single college girl.   Like the poster upthread said- it feels like Little League where everyone gets a trophy. 

 

When I was 19, I had a church leader try to force me to take a flower on Mother's Day. When I objected on the grounds that I wasn't a mother and didn't have any desire to be honored on Mother's Day, he launched into a long tirade about how "all women are mothers" and how even if I never had a chance to bear children I would still be a mother in God's eyes.

 

And I was thinking, Are you frickin' kidding me! I'm 19 years old! It was such an ugly encounter. Like, being the first in my family to attend college (on an academic scholarship) and making the Dean's List and working hard to support myself were all meaningless endeavors. I had failed in life, because I hadn't had a child at 19. It was so insulting.

 

I did not take the flower, and he was pissed. Ha!

Edited by MinivanMom
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I find it odd when people celebrate being "furrbaby" mothers lol. But whatever. They are mothering their animals, I get that. It's just odd to me to act like that is the equivalent.

 

I saw a woman crying at church yesterday and I was wondering later if she had maybe lost a baby or mother :( I didn't know if I should say anything, especially since I was wearing my baby.

 

ETA: when I wished my friends on facebook a happy Mother's Day I made the message to moms and honorary moms.

Edited by heartlikealion
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I cry in church every MD.  My church doesn't even do anything for MD except the kids pass out flowers to all the women (yes - all the women.  All of them are mother-figures if not actual mothers.  Our church is very small also, so all the kids know all the adults so it doesn't feel random).  There are so many reasons why people find MD distressing.  I think it's more common that we realize.

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MD has changed so much, ime.

 

When I was a kid some moms wore a corsage to church and Sunday school kids were given a little flower (an annual) in a pot to give to their mom. There were no sermons, no "contests", no gifts from the church directly to moms etc. No one went around saying " happy mother's day " to everyone.

 

Now, imo, MD is shoved down society's throat. This coupled with competiveness, the humble brag and Facebook makes for a mess. In the past I doubt anyone had to hear in excruciating detail how other people spent mother's day.

 

I think the pendulum swung to "all women" in reaction to the overkill of MD.

 

Just my two cents!

 

Eta: my first MD as a mother was also my first without my mother. MD brings out complicated feeling, mostly grief. I'd rather not hear everyone's gushing MD reports, kwim?

 

.

Edited by happi duck
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I cry in church every MD.  My church doesn't even do anything for MD except the kids pass out flowers to all the women (yes - all the women.  All of them are mother-figures if not actual mothers.  Our church is very small also, so all the kids know all the adults so it doesn't feel random).  There are so many reasons why people find MD distressing.  I think it's more common that we realize.

 

Well this wasn't just tears in the pew. Dd was being fussy and I stepped out with her and ran into the woman twice, once in the hall and once in the bathroom and she was quite upset. I think she wanted privacy, though.

 

I don't think it's weird for someone to find MD distressing.

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Pets are not children. If I can only rescue either a stranger's child or my pet from a burning building, I would rescue the child. I would hope that would be the automatic response for all people. Why? Because I value human life over animal life. It doesn't make me cruel. It makes me human.

 

I have cared deeply for pets and I completely understand the love people have for their pets. I don't care if people want to celebrate Mother's Day when they only have pets though I personally think it's silly. Caring for pets isn't equivalent to raising children. The love isn't equal, at all.

 

Do you think this is a helpful or kind thing to express to people who are unable to have children? It's not up to you to judge how much someone should love their pet or whether that relationship is somehow "less" than relationships you have in your life.

 

I have grieved the loss of a pet more than I have grieved the loss of some relatives. It's not that I think that my pet has more intrinsic value than a person; it's simply that I had a closer and deeper relationship with one than the other. 

 

Analogies about burning buildings aside, it would be nice if people could refrain from making snide comments and show a little compassion.

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Do you think this is a helpful or kind thing to express to people who are unable to have children? It's not up to you to judge how much someone should love their pet or whether that relationship is somehow "less" than relationships you have in your life.

 

I have grieved the loss of a pet more than I have grieved the loss of some relatives. It's not that I think that my pet has more intrinsic value than a person; it's simply that I had a closer and deeper relationship with one than the other. 

 

Analogies about burning buildings aside, it would be nice if people could refrain from making snide comments and show a little compassion. 

 

You bring up an argument I didn't make. I have great compassion for those who can't have children and want them, but I don't think this is a defense I need to make as I never said anything about infertility. 

 

I am not judging how much people love their pets. I know people love their pets. I have loved a pet just as much. My burning building comment wasn't snide; it's a thought experiment I would hope would be true: however much I love my animal, would I sacrifice my pet to save a stranger's child? Yes.

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 I would hope that would be the automatic response for all people. Why? Because I value human life over animal life. It doesn't make me cruel. It makes me human.

 

It isn't the automatic response for all people. 

 

There's a name for this actually. It's called speciesism. 

 

Why do you think homo sapiens sapiens is more important than other species? It's actually very difficult question, in my opinion. 

 

 

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My pet is a full fledged member of my family.  If that is not true in other families, that's fine, but no one else can define my family dynamics for me. I don't know why it matters to anyone else how much I love my pet.  Others should stop asserting their opinions as truth.  It doesn't take anything away from other families for my family to do things differently.  

 

 

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You bring up an argument I didn't make. I have great compassion for those who can't have children and want them, but I don't think this is a defense I need to make as I never said anything about infertility. 

 

I am not judging how much people love their pets. I know people love their pets. I have loved a pet just as much. My burning building comment wasn't snide; it's a thought experiment I would hope would be true: however much I love my animal, would I sacrifice my pet to save a stranger's child? Yes.

 

You said, "I don't care if people want to celebrate Mother's Day when they only have pets though I personally think it's silly." Some people only have pets because they are unable to have children, too.

 

I didn't think your burning building comment was snide. I was referring to other comments in the thread. I apologize for not being more clear.

 

Obviously this topic is hitting a little too close to home for me.

Edited by MercyA
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I think it's interesting how many women you see talking about being fur mommas but I don't think I'll see one male say anything of the sort on Father's day because he has a pet.

 

Yeah that's goofy.  I mean it's not a big deal if someone calls herself a fur mommy, but it's a bit much to consider yourself an actual mother.

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I think it's interesting how many women you see talking about being fur mommas but I don't think I'll see one male say anything of the sort on Father's day because he has a pet.

Toxic masculinity affects men as well as women. 

 

There are very many nurturing males but they struggle with having those qualities recognized or appreciated.  Provider / protector are tightly scripted roles. 

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Why are there Mothers and Fathers in religious orders? 

 

 

just musing out loud. How come Mother Superior is ok but being a pet parent isn't? 

 

No clue as to the root of those terms, but I doubt they think that Mother's Day or Father's Day is about celebrating religious mothers and fathers.

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Toxic masculinity affects men as well as women. 

 

There are very many nurturing males but they struggle with having those qualities recognized or appreciated.  Provider / protector are tightly scripted roles. 

 

Yeah I suppose that is true.  Although honestly I would be embarrassed to refer to myself as a fur mom. 

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