Suggestions for Algebra--nonmathy/needs review

[LAmom]

I'm trying to figure out what to use for dd (will be 8th grade) for algebra I next year.  She did some Saxon 8/7 and then I switched her to CLE 7 which she hopefully will finish this summer.  She seems to do best with review of concepts. 

 

I see Foerster's mentioned a lot on the boards.  Does this have enough review?  Saxon, I know, has review, but is disliked on the boards--why?  I don't know either way.  What are my other options?  I see a lot of people use AOPS but even Maria Miller from Math Mammoth suggests that this is harder and for the more mathy (not her words).  So, Chalkdust, Math U See?  What else?  Something easy to teach, too!  :)  I would like to have a clear direction for high school and not jump around each year.  Teaching Textbooks seems to be greatly disliked, too.  I don't want something light, but something to help her understand math, get it done, and be able to pass tests for college.   :)

 

Also, what placement test should I use to see if she is even ready for Algebra after doing CLE?

[wapiti]

See this thread on the high school board:  Homeschool High School Math  Different programs will fit different kids.  Each of the programs you mentioned has various advantages and disadvantages for different students.  You have recognized a need for review, so that's one point to look for.

 

How is CLE going?  Doesn't CLE have algebra following CLE 8, and why would you skip 8? (I don't know much about CLE, just thinking out loud.)

Edited May 6, 2016 by wapiti

[OneStepAtATime]

If CLE is working and the review helps, you could do CLE 8 at an accelerated rate (2 lessons of new material but only do select review problems from the 2 lessons each day) then move into CLE Algebra.  Might take 5-6 months to get through CLE 8 (more in depth than CLE 7 but lots of review). Or if you are committed to Algebra right away, maybe just do light unit 802/805/808/810 but have the TM to see explanations.  Work with the new material from the light units you don't have on a dry erase board then have her do all of the lessons and review problems in the light units.  Skip quizzes.  You should be able to finish all of CLE 8 in about 3 months unless she runs into snags.  Just review on the areas she snags.  Move from there to CLE  Algebra I.  If she is solid on pre-algebra then she could probably move at a bit faster pace for Algebra I.

[LAmom]

I haven't heard much about CLE Algebra. I wanted to stick with something tried and true. I am not sure why people don't like Saxon (I hear mixed reviews but not really the whys). Foerster was looking good but then I read the review is lacking which makes me nervous because that seems to be why Math Mammoth didn't work as well for dd. I'm thinking DVD instructions may be helpful unless I find something that really helps me teach (I'm rusty in my algebra!).

[happypamama]

DD did Saxon Algebra this year.  She's a decent math student but not necessarily an intuitive one.  Saxon has generally worked well for her, including Algebra.  However, sometimes they have, IMO, a dumb way of doing things, so I've shown her a different way.  But overall, they're good for the steps and everything, and I think it's a solid Algebra program.

 

[Storygirl]

We use CLE. DD14 is completing the 800 level. Math is hard for her, and we are glad that we did prealgebra thoroughly before she moves into algebra next year. We planned on using CLE for algebra, but she is enrolling in school. You may already be aware, but prealgebra is spread through both the 700 and 800 levels, so if you skip 800, your student may not have covered all prealgebra concepts thoroughly.

 

Why not continue in prealgebra in 8th grade and start algebra in 9th? If you are set on starting algebra in the fall, I agree that you need to do placement testing of some sort.

 

ETA: DH has been working with DD on math this year. I just asked him if he thought DD could have skipped 800 this year and done well in algebra; he said no way. Every child is different, of course. I would just be very careful to make sure that your daughter is actually ready to skip ahead.

Edited May 7, 2016 by Storygirl

[OneStepAtATime]

I haven't heard much about CLE Algebra. I wanted to stick with something tried and true. I am not sure why people don't like Saxon (I hear mixed reviews but not really the whys). Foerster was looking good but then I read the review is lacking which makes me nervous because that seems to be why Math Mammoth didn't work as well for dd. I'm thinking DVD instructions may be helpful unless I find something that really helps me teach (I'm rusty in my algebra!).

Actually, quite a few parents have done CLE Algebra I with their kids and found it provided a very solid foundation.  You may not hear as much about it because the light unit version is newer (much better than the old version) plus a lot of parents prefer to switch early because they want to use the same Algebra for Algebra I and Algebra II (and CLE has not finished converting to the new program for Algebra II yet) but honestly that isn't really necessary.  The reviews I have seen from people who actually used CLE Algebra I seemed to indicate pretty strongly that it provides a solid foundation so a student can move on to other programs without much difficulty at all.  And those that actually did CLE 800 before moving into Algebra I, even into another program, seemed to feel it was very indepth and provided a great foundation for higher level math.  Some DO accelerate 800, though.

 

We use CLE. DD14 is completing the 800 level. Math is hard for her, and we are glad that we did prealgebra thoroughly before she moves into algebra next year. We planned on using CLE for algebra, but she is enrolling in school. You may already be aware, but prealgebra is spread through both the 700 and 800 levels, so if you skip 800, your student may not have covered all prealgebra concepts thoroughly.

 

Why not continue in prealgebra in 8th grade and start algebra in 9th? If you are set on starting algebra in the fall, I agree that you need to do placement testing of some sort.

 

ETA: DH has been working with DD on math this year. I just asked him if he thought DD could have skipped 800 this year and done well in algebra; he said no way. Every child is different, of course. I would just be very careful to make sure that your daughter is actually ready to skip ahead.

I agree, especially with a student that does not find math an easy subject.

 

Give a placement test, whatever system you decide to use.

 

Good luck, OP!

[mominco]

I did not read thru this entire thread so sorry if I am repeating it

did you look at Tablet class?

http://tabletclass.com/

 

She can do it on her own or get a one on one coaching with John Zimmerman.

I found it recommended here and took a chance.

Now both my kids are doing it,1 is non mathy and one is extremely so.

Working for both.

 

[KarenNC]

You said you switched her from Saxon 8/7 to CLE. Why? Did she like one or feel she understood one better than the other? That might give an indication of the direction to go.

 

My impression from the various threads on Saxon is that a lot of folks find it too review-heavy (a plus for us), too slow for math-intuitive kids (mine isn't), more focused on algorithms and less on theory (honestly, my kid is not headed to a math/science pathway, so that's not my biggest concern), and some have said that there are occasional differences in terminology that may be an issue in higher level math (ie calculus and above--I have grave doubts my kid will do calculus, maybe statistics instead), but I haven't seen much in the way of specifics on that one.

 

My non-mathy, humanities-oriented 15 yo has just finished Saxon algebra 2 (started in level 6/5) and it has worked well for her. All the review has made it much less stressful for her. If she were headed to a science career or very math-intuitive, we would likely have gone a different route. Definitely do a placement test to see where your student would fall in the sequence. If you think you may like Saxo, we've done both the free at your own pace classes and a free live online class for Saxon through www.virtualhomeschoolgroup.org and been quite pleased. She got a solid score on the ACT math section last year as a freshman and the PSAT math section this past fall, not stellar but high enough after Saxon algebra 1 to meet the benchmark score requirements to do dual enrollment next year at the community college. She takes the ACT again in June, so we'll see how things have progressed now that she's finished algebra 2.

 

If you do go the Saxon route, if you go with the third edition (the one used with the Virtual Homeschool Group program) geometry is integrated into algebra 1, algebra 2, and the first part of Advanced Mathematics. If you use the 4th edition, they pulled the geometry out and put it in a separate geometry course.

Edited May 8, 2016 by KarenNC

[LAmom]

It seems like a lot of kids are doing Algebra in 8th grade?  I think the California schools (where we live) do it this way.  So, if we do CLE 800 in 8th, she will do Algebra in 9th.  Then will she be behind?  Should I try to accelerate through 800?  I will have her take the Saxon tests after she does CLE 700 and see if she is ready.  I think there is a Math-U-See test too.  I guess I don't know what is needed in high school for math.  Algebra I and II, Geometry, and ??  Four years are needed correct?

[OneStepAtATime]

It seems like a lot of kids are doing Algebra in 8th grade?  I think the California schools (where we live) do it this way.  So, if we do CLE 800 in 8th, she will do Algebra in 9th.  Then will she be behind?  Should I try to accelerate through 800?  I will have her take the Saxon tests after she does CLE 700 and see if she is ready.  I think there is a Math-U-See test too.  I guess I don't know what is needed in high school for math.  Algebra I and II, Geometry, and ??  Four years are needed correct?

It depends on the requirements in your state and on what colleges your child might attend and what career field they want to go into.  This honestly varies widely.  It is only in recent times that more schools and people are having kids take Algebra I in 8th grade.  Some kids are ready then.  Others aren't.  Rushing a child into Algebra I when their foundation is shaky can be a losing proposition.  They may flounder in higher level math classes and have to repeat.

 

Normally, if your child is not going into a heavily STEM field, for High School they will need Algebra I, Algebra II, Geometry and usually (but not always) a higher level math (usually something like Trigonometry/Pre-Calculcus/Calculus).  Different school districts offer different higher level math plans.  If they need to be prepared for acceptance into a college where they plan to go heavily STEM they may need more before they hit college.  Some states only require through Algebra II. Some CCs don't even have that requirement.

 

If you have a rough idea of what schools your child might be interested in attending (if they/you intend to go to college) you might check for admission requirements.  Also check with your state requirements.  I would not worry so much about what the local ps is doing.  The material they are using may not be equivalent to what you are using and in fact most ps classes rarely finish the material.  There isn't time.

[PeterPan]

The fastest way to get behind is to go too fast where you're at.   :)  Math 7 is usually a *bridge* between the computation of 6th and the pre-algebra of 8th.  That was the traditional sequence, until the race to calculus began.  Think about it.  Your dd is going to need 3 units of high school math to graduate.  What do you want those to be?  I meet people whose kids did algebra 1 in 7th, calculus early in high school ONLY because the school forced it, not because they loved it.  The kids get Bs, slog through, and never take math again.  MUCH better to do math when your dc is ready, working consistently every single day.  CONSISTENCY is what is going to pay off her, not whether she used the perfect program.  So pick one program and do it every day.

 

Usually kids skip the math 7 and go into pre-algebra.  Your dd benefited from math 7, so in general she's probably going to benefit from doing math 8 (pre-algebra) as well.  It's not necessary to skip it.  Even with algebra 1 in 9th she can still get through pre-calculus by the time she graduates.  Yes there are some kids who need more, but does *she*?  My dd is "only" getting through pre-calc by the time she graduates and "only" using lowly MUS, but her ACT scores are fine, totally fine.  She's getting into the college she wants (hopefully!) and the major she wants in a program (costume design) that will never require more.  

 

So be realistic, work backwards.  My dd ended up doing algebra 1 twice.  To hear her tell it, she did it three times.  I don't remember, lol.  I'm just saying there's no rush.  Work every day, build a solid foundation, nail stuff.  You'll make progress and be fine.   :)

 

Adding: Yes, CA has some pretty advanced requirements.  I think we've had some threads discussing how that doesn't pan out so well anyway, that it pushes kids forward who don't really UNDERSTAND what they're doing and then the end up REPEATING everything.  If your question is what you're legally required to do in your state, dunno.  If you're asking whether your dc will be able to pass the CHSPE with a certain level of classes, don't know.  You also need to check entrance requirements to her prospective college, university, whatever to make sure you've met their requirements.  I think, like you're saying, CA's can be pretty strict.  But if you're going to another state, won't matter.  So just check it all out and work backwards.

Edited May 11, 2016 by OhElizabeth

[Storygirl]

Where we live, algebra is done in eighth grade by some students and in ninth grade by others. Both are fine. Our state requires algebra 2 or equivalent by graduation, and even starting algebra in ninth grade will result in completing algebra 2 by junior year.

 

Granted, that is the minimum graduation standard. But it is very doable, and most students are able to achieve more, even when starting algebra in high school. I agree with checking your state graduation guidelines (and whether you have to meet them as a homeschooler) and the admissions requirements of target colleges. When I was in school, algebra was only offered to honors students in eighth grade; all others waited until high school, and that was the norm.

 

It would be worse to rush into algebra and get lower grades and/or be less prepared for higher level math. The beauty of homeschooling is that we can meet our children's needs, whatever they are. It that means algebra in ninth grade, it's okay!

 

DD14 will be taking algebra in ninth grade. Because that is when she will be ready. Our neighbor's son has been taking algebra in eighth grade but will retake it in ninth (he is moving to a different school for high school, so his transcript will start over anyway), because his skills are not solid yet, even though he is a good student.

[journey00]

I did not read thru this entire thread so sorry if I am repeating it

did you look at Tablet class?

http://tabletclass.com/

 

She can do it on her own or get a one on one coaching with John Zimmerman.

I found it recommended here and took a chance.

Now both my kids are doing it,1 is non mathy and one is extremely so.

Working for both.

 

LOVE LOVE Tableclass and love John Zimmerman! He has taken my hysterical- math loathing-the world is caving in-I'm stupid and will never learn math-dd into doing Algebra with NO tears! She actually gets up in the morning to do it first thing without being nagged or threatened!!!! I wish I could get back all the $$ I spent on different math programs & just invested into Tableclass along with his tutoring.  I will have my younger two also do it. 

 

[Jeanne in MN]

Personally, I like Teaching Textbooks. All three of my teens have done well with it. They've passed their Accuplacer tests which is a college placement exam. Easy to use, someone else teaches it, explanations for each problem is available for you. Many of my friends use it and like it.