PSA: Check the grammar & spelling!!!

[heartlikealion]

You don't have to know why you aren't good at something to know you aren't good at it and need to over compensate for it to deliver professional quality work.

 

Long before I knew I had dyscalcula, I knew math was not my strong suit, and I over compensated for it. I still had to figure out how to balance a checkbook and make a budget, handle register sales and so forth. If I could not have, no one would say, oh she must be a % of the population that have dyscalcula. No, they'd say I needed to find another job bc I wasn't reliably doing it right.

 

Most people will never know why they don't seem to be good at something. Because there isn't a dx for everything. But they know when they need to make sure the job is done right or seek another job.

 

I will say a lot of people seem to have a misbegotten notion that good writing doesn't need much, if any, editing. And so when a child or adult is struggling with editing their writing, they will erroneously think they suck at writing. But the truth is, the best writings usually had extensive editing. I think most bad writing isn't bad writing, it's bad or entire lack of editing.

 

Yeah. I'm directionally challenged and rely heavily on my Garmin and Siri. It doesn't matter if the reason is dyscalculia or not, I have to get places.

 

Someone who won't take the time to proof read their own work/have someone else proof read it, probably shouldn't be in charge of social media posts. Although, everyone makes mistakes once in a while. Can't say we never had mistakes in the newspaper where I worked and there were definitely a few sets of eyes looking at things.

[Guest]

AND I will guess your DH is in engineering, management, leadership roles, mechanically gifted, etc. We never knew might DH was dyslexic. Bright man, advanced degrees. I knew he hated to read (which, btw, does NOT trademark all dyslexics) read slower than usual, was uncomfortable with written language due to spelling, had an early elementary history of being in a low reading group placement, and had early speech issues.

 

On an aside - if one parent has dyslexia, generally speaking, fifty percent of kids will have it. It is a dominant trait.

Yes, he is a plumbing and mechanical contractor who can build anything. He has built award-winning aircraft, motorcycles and boats. Edited May 5, 2016 by Quill

[DawnM]

Preach!

[Haiku]

There was one in the cafeteria at our local junior high that read: "All the wordl's a stage."

 

The two that always bugged me were the big recycling bins at my college marked "Can's" and the sign painted on the window of Once Upon a Child that said "Kid's Clothing Sale." I guess they were selling the clothing of only child.  :huh:

 

When I worked in a retail store I used to go around and correct all the signs with a sharpie until my boss told me that my corrections were more distracting than the mistakes.

 

Yeah.  RIGHT.  :glare:

[BlsdMama]

Yeah. I'm directionally challenged and rely heavily on my Garmin and Siri. It doesn't matter if the reason is dyscalculia or not, I have to get places.

 

Someone who won't take the time to proof read their own work/have someone else proof read it, probably shouldn't be in charge of social media posts. Although, everyone makes mistakes once in a while. Can't say we never had mistakes in the newspaper where I worked and there were definitely a few sets of eyes looking at things.

 

 

 

There is no doubt about this, which is why I qualified what I was saying.  I don't allow DS to turn in work with mistakes - he needs to have someone proofread.  DH (also dyslexic) said EVEN emails.  He told him that essentially he's giving out an impression and a half hearted effort with grammar and spelling mistakes isn't acceptable when emailing a professor, a mock coach, etc.  So, I steadfastly agree.  HOWEVER, these discussions then always morph into, "And I can't BELIEVE no one can tell the difference between ((insert homonym)) - ugh!"  

 

My goal is just to head that off and save people from looking like ignorant folk who can't recognize a serious brain difference when they see it.  

[heartlikealion]

There is no doubt about this, which is why I qualified what I was saying.  I don't allow DS to turn in work with mistakes - he needs to have someone proofread.  DH (also dyslexic) said EVEN emails.  He told him that essentially he's giving out an impression and a half hearted effort with grammar and spelling mistakes isn't acceptable when emailing a professor, a mock coach, etc.  So, I steadfastly agree.  HOWEVER, these discussions then always morph into, "And I can't BELIEVE no one can tell the difference between ((insert homonym)) - ugh!"  

 

My goal is just to head that off and save people from looking like ignorant folk who can't recognize a serious brain difference when they see it.  

 

I'm not dyslexic and I usually re-read my emails at least once before hitting submit. I don't know about having others read my emails, but I could see how one might need to do that if they cannot find errors easily on their own. I'm still trying to grasp how it works as I've never heard it explained this way.

 

I don't know about others, but I kind of felt like your first post was you yelling at others' conclusions when obviously it'd take more than reading one post by one person to determine if they are dyslexic. I always thought of dyslexic as mixing up letters, not whole words. And in those cases I often blame it on typos and autocorrect/phones. I don't know why our ignorance = seniority complex to you. I think there's a lot of misunderstanding in this thread.

 

[BlsdMama]

I'm not dyslexic and I usually re-read my emails at least once before hitting submit. I don't know about having others read my emails, but I could see how one might need to do that if they cannot find errors easily on their own. I'm still trying to grasp how it works as I've never heard it explained this way.

 

I don't know about others, but I kind of felt like your first post was you yelling at others' conclusions when obviously it'd take more than reading one post by one person to determine if they are dyslexic. I always thought of dyslexic as mixing up letters, not whole words. And in those cases I often blame it on typos and autocorrect/phones. I don't know why our ignorance = seniority complex to you. I think there's a lot of misunderstanding in this thread.

I re-read my emails for clarity of thought. I never, NEVER run spell-check.  Not ever.  My husband would NEVER hit send on an email without running spell check.  I always got 100% on the spelling tests - the PREtests.  Study?  Nope.  It was intrinsic - I got everything the first time I read it.  Did I have to read over and over? Did I have to ask for silence so I could hope for decent comprehension?  Nope.  I'm a neurotypical.  The ability to read and to spell is like breathing - it's just effortless.  But somehow I got to thinking, because schools enforce it, that is was a notch in my belt - some kind of kudos to my brains or effort or something, rather than just the way I learned.  And I embraced that philosophy and, in doing so, I also embraced the opposite.  That those who did not succeed in these areas were either less bright, less capable, or lazy.  I don't think I was ever mean about it.  I just knew I was the better student, the better learner, the better reader.... Better.

 

Ignorance is acceptable as long as someone is willing to accept and learn the facts.

 

Superiority is when someone mocks mistakes as in a tone of, "Yeah, why don't "they" get it yet?"

 

These threads generally devolve very quickly into the whole, "They're, their, where, were, how hard is it really?"

And that is when it really is nothing more than bullying.  And someone needs to stand, rather forcefully IMO, for those who don't dare say, "Look, I use spellcheck.  Spellcheck can't tell when I've use were and I should have used where."  There are a lot of people who have been mocked and made fun of for their slow reading aloud, being in the "low" reading group, been separated for classes, mocked by peer reviews on their writing, who really feel ashamed that they can't tell the difference.  And, frankly, a lot of them are not going to post on this thread.  They don't write long responses because they know the more they write, the more likely they are to make a mistake.  They also know that their written language does not accurately reflect their intelligence.    And the neurotypicals win again.... With mocking tones as they refuse to accept that some brains simply aren't wired to see the difference.  The "reading" center of the brain is handled by an entirely different area of the brain in a dyslexic.

 

This is the best explanation I can find, with pictures:

 

http://www.dyslexia-reading-well.com/causes-of-dyslexia.html

 

But here's the thing - dyslexics almost inevitably have a story or eight... :(  They can tell you how much they hated reading aloud in a classroom - broken reading, slower than everyone else, mixing up words, being corrected.  They can tell you they were separated for reading instruction (that didn't work) and possibly for speech.  They can tell you they worked and worked on spelling lists but even if they did well on the test, they could misspell the same words the next week.  They'll tell you they depend on spellcheck for everything they send but they know spellcheck can't catch words that are wrong but spelled correctly.  They will tell you that they are paranoid sometimes of posting here, even though they have a lot of value to add, they are concerned about their written language abilities.

 

Now a lot of this depends on their level of dyslexia.  But many people's academic progress has been impeded by their dyslexia.  Even more have succeeded but have never forgotten.

These threads often go right down the road of mocking this inability to recognize the differences and frankly what is nothing more than  a biological difference to differentiate.

 

It IS bullying.

I DO get mad about this.

There is definitely a tone of superiority.

It needs to stop.

And I do feel a pressing need to squash the bullying so you're right, I bet I do come off forceful.

 

But if anyone else is courageous, at least one person will admit they do/did feel superior to people who made these mistakes.  It's ingrained in us from the time we were little - when we were put in the "good" reading group.  When we were held up as models of students, when we got the GOLD stars on our spelling tests, when we didn't have to study to get 100% on our PRETESTS.

 

School was always in our favor.  We soaked up the spelling, the reading, the grammar lessons.  And we did feel smarter for it.

 

Were we?  Nope.

 

Our brains were just wired for that specific type of learning and teaching.

 

The bullying stops with the ridiculing.

Edited May 5, 2016 by BlsdMama

[heartlikealion]

Ignorance is acceptable as long as someone is willing to accept and learn the facts.

 

Superiority is when someone mocks mistakes as in a tone of, "Yeah, why don't "they" get it yet?"

 

These threads generally devolve very quickly into the whole, "They're, their, where, were, how hard is it really?"

And that is when it really is nothing more than bullying.  And someone needs to stand, rather forcefully IMO, for those who don't dare say, "Look, I use spellcheck.  Spellcheck can't tell when I've use were and I should have used where."  There are a lot of people who have been mocked and made fun of for their slow reading aloud, being in the "low" reading group, been separated for classes, mocked by peer reviews on their writing, who really feel ashamed that they can't tell the difference.  And, frankly, a lot of them are not going to post on this thread.  They don't write long responses because they know the more they write, the more likely they are to make a mistake.  They also know that their written language does not accurately reflect their intelligence.    And the neurotypicals win again.... With mocking tones as they refuse to accept that some brains simply aren't wired to see the difference.  The "reading" center of the brain is handled by an entirely different area of the brain in a dyslexic.

 

This is the best explanation I can find, with pictures:

 

http://www.dyslexia-reading-well.com/causes-of-dyslexia.html

 

But here's the thing - dyslexics almost inevitably have a story or eight... :(  They can tell you how much they hated reading aloud in a classroom - broken reading, slower than everyone else, mixing up words, being corrected.  They can tell you they were separated for reading instruction (that didn't work) and possibly for speech.  They can tell you they worked and worked on spelling lists but even if they did well on the test, they could misspell the same words the next week.  They'll tell you they depend on spellcheck for everything they send but they know spellcheck can't catch words that are wrong but spelled correctly.  They will tell you that they are paranoid sometimes of posting here, even though they have a lot of value to add, they are concerned about their written language abilities.

 

Now a lot of this depends on their level of dyslexia.  But many people's academic progress has been impeded by their dyslexia.  Even more have succeeded but have never forgotten.

These threads often go right down the road of mocking this inability to recognize the differences and frankly what is nothing more than  a biological difference to differentiate.

 

It IS bullying.

I DO get mad about this.

There is definitely a tone of superiority.

It needs to stop.

And I do feel a pressing need to squash the bullying so you're right, I bet I do come off forceful.

 

But if anyone else is courageous, at least one person will admit they do/did feel superior to people who made these mistakes.  It's ingrained in us from the time we were little - when we were put in the "good" reading group.  When we were held up as models of students, when we got the GOLD stars on our spelling tests, when we didn't have to study to get 100% on our PRETESTS.

 

School was always in our favor.  We soaked up the spelling, the reading, the grammar lessons.  And we did feel smarter for it.

 

Were we?  Nope.

 

Our brains were just wired for that specific type of learning and teaching.

 

The bullying stops with the ridiculing.

 

Ok. I will admit I do sometimes think things like, "why don't people know the difference between your/you're, etc" but mainly in a, "come on, you're an adult. If you don't remember this from school then look it up. It will take a few seconds." If that makes me a bad person or I was on a high horse for thinking it, well, I definitely will think twice now. In the cases where dyslexia is not an issue, I still think people should educate themselves on simple things like that. If I'm not sure about a word I open a new tab and google it. I do it all.the.time. Whether it's a spelling thing or alternative definition or how to pronounce it on youtube. Although, I'm still mastering my math facts so maybe I have no room to talk lol. I'm basically learning tricks as I teach ds since I never really got them down for whatever reason. I think I just didn't practice them or something. I did fine in math classes, excelled and got permission to skip a class, even. But I am just not good at mental math.

 

I do want to say though, not all of us non dyslexics (I don't even know if I'm considered NT. I really do think I have dyscalculia but I heard testing is expensive and complicated) had a great time reading in school. I skipped kindergarten (cut off date situation) and they expected me to know how to read so I was behind. They bumped me down from the first grade class to the K-1 class. Basically the teacher worked with the Kers and the teacher aid worked with a small set of first graders (like me). I guess I caught up but I hated reading (maybe because one teacher made us track passage of time and page numbers? And I hated that darn book Sign of the Beaver LOL) and I don't know that I was bad at it, but I just didn't like it. I was embarrassed in school when one teacher made a chart with a paper mountain and we each had a paper hiker. My hiker was near the bottom of the hill and I knew that even if I read more I wasn't going to catch up to the hikers near the top because that just wasn't me. The person that reached the top first got a prize. I knew that wasn't going to be me so I wasn't motivated. Ironically my mother worked at the library and for years I hated reading. My parents would have had me reading sooner if they'd realized I was behind the class expectations, but it was too late by then. So while I can't relate to being bullied when reading aloud maybe, I can relate to feeling stupid or frustrated with reading.

[BlsdMama]

Ok. I will admit I do sometimes think things like, "why don't people know the difference between your/you're, etc" but mainly in a, "come on, you're an adult. If you don't remember this from school then look it up. It will take a few seconds." If that makes me a bad person or I was on a high horse for thinking it, well, I definitely will think twice now. In the cases where dyslexia is not an issue, I still think people should educate themselves on simple things like that. If I'm not sure about a word I open a new tab and google it. I do it all.the.time. Whether it's a spelling thing or alternative definition or how to pronounce it on youtube. Although, I'm still mastering my math facts so maybe I have no room to talk lol. I'm basically learning tricks as I teach ds since I never really got them down for whatever reason. I think I just didn't practice them or something. I did fine in math classes, excelled and got permission to skip a class, even. But I am just not good at mental math.

 

I do want to say though, not all of us non dyslexics (I don't even know if I'm considered NT. I really do think I have dyscalculia but I heard testing is expensive and complicated) had a great time reading in school. I skipped kindergarten (cut off date situation) and they expected me to know how to read so I was behind. They bumped me down from the first grade class to the K-1 class. Basically the teacher worked with the Kers and the teacher aid worked with a small set of first graders (like me). I guess I caught up but I hated reading (maybe because one teacher made us track passage of time and page numbers? And I hated that darn book Sign of the Beaver LOL) and I don't know that I was bad at it, but I just didn't like it. I was embarrassed in school when one teacher made a chart with a paper mountain and we each had a paper hiker. My hiker was near the bottom of the hill and I knew that even if I read more I wasn't going to catch up to the hikers near the top because that just wasn't me. The person that reached the top first got a prize. I knew that wasn't going to be me so I wasn't motivated. Ironically my mother worked at the library and for years I hated reading. My parents would have had me reading sooner if they'd realized I was behind the class expectations, but it was too late by then. So while I can't relate to being bullied when reading aloud maybe, I can relate to feeling stupid or frustrated with reading.

 

 

Can I say gently and lovingly that you show an incredible amount of the signs?  Girls are the least diagnosed because they are the best at compensating.  Dyscalculia is generally comorbid.  The fact that, despite using basic math facts all the time since you were in 3rd grade that you still haven't mastered them, is a really big indicator of dyslexia.  I don't know if you realized it but you used seniority instead of superiority.  

 

The thing is - dyslexics are so bright.  They do SUCH a great job of compensating - especially girls.  My Abigail would be an excellent student - but I can already see her check and double check her spelling.  She doesn't trust herself at all.  I have listened to several speakers and I adore the topic, but I don't like listening to Susan Barton - possibly one of the best known speakers, lol.  Why?  Because she emphasizes her nephew - he was PROFOUNDLY dyslexic.

 

The truth?  The truth is  that stealth dyslexia is a thing.  Chances are, if you are dyslexic, one of the reasons you have high expectations for others is because you have to work TWICE as hard as people and you've done it - so they should too.  You put effort in double checking your words, you put effort in looking things up.  And if you can, then why don't others put in the effort? I don't know the answer to that.  I think some are so discouraged by the time they leave the public school system that they are just.........  broke.  Some, those who can compensate, they go on to do other things - where they are gifted and  they do well.  They never quite trust their spelling, they may or may not enjoy reading, but they remember those early years.

 

The ones I worry about? The broken ones.  They are, most likely, HIGHLY gifted in another area, but they've been measured by the standard of reading and writing, that some of them actually do wonder if they are slow or stupid.  The more you read, the more angry you'll get.  These kids have the system stacked against them from kindergarten.  AND WE COULD FIX THIS.  All we have to do is teach ALL kids with some kind of OG program.  That's it.  It's so FREAKING EASY.  :(  And realize some kids are never going to spell well, so equip them with what they need, but not let this very tiny, little thing impede their progress.

:(

 

My husband compensated through math and sports.  The boys often are athletically gifted.

 

He didn't know he was dyslexic until almost 40.

 

My oldest son? Extremely academically gifted, also moderately dyslexic.  I have watched him take Comp I and Comp II this semester at the CC as a junior.  I will guarantee the instructor has NO idea how much effort he puts into her class.  But you know what? He's getting an A.  He is reading and writing extraordinarily well.  He wrote his final paper this last week and I'm telling you I'm not sure I could be more proud had he gotten the Nobel prize.

 

He is my pride and joy and I am back in school.....  Going to get my Bachelors and then my Masters.  And then, when my kids are a little older, I will go into the school systems.  I will be part of the effort to stop this crap.  Not. One. More. Kid. who has to have some kind of stupid hiker thing on a wall to make them feel behind when they are working their tails off in a system that is teaching  them correctly.  And the teachers?  Oh my gosh! They got INTO the system to help kids.  They just don't know how.  There are only about a dozen universities in this country currently teaching correct remediation to teachers.

 

How awful is that?

[Lady Florida.]

My child got a recruitment postcard with a misspelling from a college. :huh:

 

Yikes!

 

 

During construction on I-95 in my area a number of signs were replaced. One of the new signs listed an exit for Cape Canaverel (it's Canaveral). This was one of those huge green signs on interstate highways. I told dh I really wanted to get a picture of it, but it wasn't easy to stop on a busy highway just to snap a photo of a misspelled sign. It stayed up for a good 2-3 weeks before it was finally replaced. I wonder how much us Florida taxpayers spent on that mistake.

[heartlikealion]

BlsdMama, Hmm. I don't know. I definitely did fudge up some things in this thread, but when I google things it's usually from self doubt on definitions rather than spelling. I don't feel like I struggle when I read, but I also hardly ever have a desire to read for enjoyment. I read for knowledge. Which is enjoyable to me, actually. So is there a test for both of these (dyslexia, dyscalculia) that could be done at once? lol. I will ask my psychiatrist about this at our meeting this month. It will be my first time seeing her, but maybe she would know what to tell me. I don't think she diagnoses it. Thank you.

[JumpyTheFrog]

 These kids have the system stacked against them from kindergarten.  AND WE COULD FIX THIS.  All we have to do is teach ALL kids with some kind of OG program.  That's it.  It's so FREAKING EASY.

I am completely on board with this. No matter what the percent of people with dyslexia is, I think all kids benefit from proper reading instruction. As much as I love math, learning to read is more important in elementary school. It should be the top goal (after having a safe enviroment).

[athomeontheprairie]

BlsdMama, I greatly appreciate your side of this discussion. I had no idea 20% of the population struggles with dyslexia. That's a high percentage. High enough, really, that it should be addressed in schools and possibly early education programs. If we can find a way to help those kids-it benefits not only them, but society as a whole.

HOWEVER, I felt like while it is an important discussion to have (and I do, really), I don't think it was the intent of the OP. She wasn't knocking an individual for their usage of grammar, punctuation, or spelling. She was commenting on an ORGANIZATION that is selling EDUCATION as their product. If you are going to represent a product for a company-then that's what proof readers are for.

In no way did I take her OP to bash INDIVIDUALS that struggle (though, there have certainly been posts on this board to that effect.) I have an uncle who feels the need to apologize all.the.time for his spelling/grammar mistakes on Facebook. Really it’s okay. He was in a car accident and wasn’t found for 2 days. His brain no longer can process that information-Don’t judge him, don’t talk bad about him, don’t think he’s an idiot- He’s a wonderful man. But at the same time he isn’t trying to sell a spelling program.

 

ETA: Blsdmama, I also wanted to say I love your passion. It speaks of someone that has genuine concern and is seeking to advocate for kids that need an advocate. I'm glad you bring that passion to this board-it helps us all become aware of needed change and how we can help.

Edited May 5, 2016 by athomeontheprairie

[Murphy101]

You go from one extreme - presuming everyone has dyslexia when only approx 20% do to another of presuming there's a one fit cure-all for everyone with dyslexia, when it is no where near that simple.

 

I had dx dyscalcula. Dx multiple times in elementary school, but I wasn't informed of the dx until I was an adult. I'd rather put a fork in my eye than use those damned multi sensory OG programs. My one child (no where near 50% here) with dx dyslexia felt the same way. Some of my kids thought they were okay, but it didn't make any great strides in their ability.

 

There is a very wide spectrum of dyslexia and dyscalcula. Some people might just display similiar tendencies all the way up to people have it so disabling that they might never be able to read or do basic math even with very intensive early and prolonged help.

 

And no, it's not bullying to suggest that if people know they have a weakness in doing their work professionally, then they need to over compensate for it. That's nonsense. And belittles what genuine bullying is.

 

I don't wonder why people use your instead of you're.

I question why they don't edit if they know they have a tendancy to mess up their writings.

Especially if it is supposed to be professional work quality.

 

Probably 90% of my typing errors are because I type too fast on an iPad or my phone and do not edit everything.

Or if it's on something like this casual forum, I don't edit at all most of the time.

Edited May 5, 2016 by Murphy101

[BlsdMama]

You go from one extreme - presuming everyone has dyslexia when only approx 20% do to another of presuming there's a one fit cure-all for everyone with dyslexia, when it is no where near that simple.

 

I had dx dyscalcula. Dx multiple times in elementary school, but I wasn't informed of the dx until I was an adult. I'd rather put a fork in my eye than use those damned multi sensory OG programs. My one child (no where near 50% here) with dx dyslexia felt the same way. Some of my kids thought they were okay, but it didn't make any great strides in their ability.

 

There is a very wide spectrum of dyslexia and dyscalcula. Some people might just display similiar tendencies all the way up to people have it so disabling that they might never be able to read or do basic math even with very intensive early and prolonged help.

 

And no, it's not bullying to suggest that if people know they have a weakness in doing their work professionally, then they need to over compensate for it. That's nonsense. And belittles what genuine bullying is.

 

I don't wonder why people use your instead of you're.

I question why they don't edit if they know they have a tendancy to mess up their writings.

Especially if it is supposed to be professional work quality.

 

Probably 90% of my typing errors are because I type too fast on an iPad or my phone and do not edit everything.

Or if it's on something like this casual forum, I don't edit at all most of the time.

 

 

I'm sorry - are you reading MY posts?  Or mixing them up?  I presume everyone has dyslexia?  I was one the one who stated one in five.  That's 20%.  I know my statistics on this.  

 

There IS a one fit remediation.  Scientifically, Orton Gillingham based programs are absolutely proven to work.  It doesn't mean everyone LIKES them, it means they can learn to read using them.  I have a kiddo who is professionally diagnosed severe/profound.  He IS reading.  He is.  He is reading phonetically.  It took us blood, sweat, and tears to get here.  He's 11 years old and he is reading four and five letter words.  We redid Level 3.  Do you know how LOW that is?  It's low.  But he is making progress. He is getting there.  And I gotta say if I ever saw anyone mocking his spelling there is only ONE way I'd label it.  Bullying.

 

 

And, just because you didn't experience the 50% rate doesn't remotely mean it isn't accurate.  There's a gal who runs Apples to Gold.  If I remember correctly she has SIX kids - 100% of them has dyslexia.  That doesn't mean the scientific rate is now 100%.  It means, statistically, families where a parent has dyslexia, will pass it down approximately 50% of the time.

 

Moreover I never called anything a "cure all." I wouldn't want to "cure" dyslexia if I could.  The dyslexic brain is a masterpiece.  It is a gift.  It is an amazing brain.  I spend half my time wishing I had one.  I am in awe of how well it works for some things. It has a weakness, which, unfortunately, our current society tends to revolve around.  Now, does that make it a handicap.  Geez, I hate that word.

 

Look, it's like this.  If you were born with a hand that didn't work well, could you switch it out?  Nope.  But you could do therapy to make it work better and you could certainly learn accomodations to make yourself function as well as possible.  

 

But I have to ask - how do you expect someone to "see" where vs. were in a sentence?  Spell check doesn't work and the person in question is "severe" on the dyslexia scale.  What would you like them to do?  What about when they write, "The children were lovely.  We where so glad to see them." And you think, "Really?"  What would you have done, what checklist would you use to ensure you don't slip?  Spellcheck won't save you there. 

 

And I stand by the fact that dyscalculia is comorbid to dyslexia.  Must they co-exist?  No, but if you have one, it, science tells us, makes it MORE likely you have the other.  

 

It is bullying at ANY time to mock an inborn disability.   And I stand on it.  What do you call bullying? Mocking the kid who was born smaller?  Mocking the kid who was born without athletic ability?  Mocking the born with a low IQ?   Or maybe mocking someone with a reading disability?  Seems to me none of those things are far apart.  

Edited May 5, 2016 by BlsdMama

[goldberry]

I don't judge anyone in personal emails or personal written communication, like posts on this board.

 

It is entirely different to me when you are representing a business.  That is what double checking and having others look over your work is for.  Failing to do that extra step for a business or cause you are representing is a sign of laziness, not of a disability. And yes, it does affect my perception of the level of professionalism.

[Murphy101]

If for Pete's sake.

 

You are getting ridiculous.

 

No one was mocking anyone in this thread. You radically jumped to it based on absolutely nothing.

 

I would never mock an 11 year old.

 

I wouldn't mock a 31 year old either. However, if the 31 year old is trying to sell me what he is claiming to be professional quality written materials or if his written correspondence from his work is nearly illegible and comes across as illiterate because he didn't bother to get it edited? I'm not going to mock him, but I'm not going to buy his unprofessional shoddy materials either.

 

I wouldn't mock a cashier who can't count back my change. But I'm not going to hire her as my accountant either.

 

I also didn't say the chances of hereditary passing was wrong, I said it wasn't presenting anywhere near 50% in my house.

 

I didn't dislike OG methods because I didn't like them. I didn't like them because they didn't work for us. I'm genuinely thrilled they are working for you. But no, they are not a guaranteed fix for every person who presents with dyslexia or dyscalcula.

 

You aren't the only parent who has given blood sweat and tears to help their child learn. Even a dyslexia or dyscalculic child. You don't get to decide absolute truths for them just because of your experience. They have their own experiences that are just as valid to them.

 

As for how would I expect someone to figure out where vs were. Editing. If they know they can't edit their own work, then yes, it sucks, but if they want their writing to be respected, especially professionally, they need to have a second pair of eyes edit it for them. Having someone edit and proofread is not some horrible mark of shame or mocking to suggest this. The best writers in the world seek others to edit and proofread their materials.

[Seasider]

I don't judge anyone in personal emails or personal written communication, like posts on this board.

 

It is entirely different to me when you are representing a business. That is what double checking and having others look over your work is for. Failing to do that extra step for a business or cause you are representing is a sign of laziness, not of a disability. And yes, it does affect my perception of the level of professionalism.

This was my point in the first place.

[Monica_in_Switzerland]

The writer Avi (Poppy series, Crispin series, etc.) is severely dyslexic, and he goes around to schools and shows kids his manuscripts with missing letters, backwards letters, misspellings and all.  He does this to encourage children that the creative writing process is about getting an idea from your head to the paper, not about doing it with perfect mechanics.  

 

And no one, anywhere in this thread, is claiming otherwise.  

 

I think it's been pretty well stated through the thread that we're not now discussing a FB post or a text.  The issue is a supposedly-professionally produced document containing errors.  

 

I have a disability- I have early onset macular degeneration, which means loss of central vision.  If someone were to mock me for holding a menu up against my nose to read it, I would absolutely consider it bullying.  If someone were to tell me that I am not the best qualified for driving the company car, then no, this is not bullying.  

 

If a person's condition, whatever it may be, means they cannot do a job, then they shouldn't do a job.  If some kind of structure (aka reasonable accomodation) can be put in place allowing a person to do a job, then they should be allowed that job like any other candidate.  

 

I think all anybody is saying here is that a professionally published document/sign/flyer should pass by an editor.  And if a dyslexic person is unable to distinguish certain spelling nuances, they should not be that editor.  This isn't bullying, it's realistic.  

 

I can be reasonably accommodated to do many, many jobs.  I use accessibility software on my computer, I use digital and manual magnifiers everywhere I go, I use public transportation, and I make my kids walk all the way across the living room to where I'm sitting if they want to show me their latest drawing.  But there is no reasonable accommodation for me to drive a car.  None at all.  

 

Do you believe a dyslexic person should be hired and retained in the role of final editor if they cannot correct spelling and grammar mistakes?  Do you believe I should be allowed to drive?  

 

This has nothing to do with intelligence or bullying, it has to do with whether or not a person has the qualifications for a job.  

 

*** This is not to say that dyslexics and other people with whatever "disability" you can imagine are NOT regularly bullied.  On the contrary, this is a HUGE PROBLEM in the world in general.  This is just saying that to say a person is not qualified for a given job because of a given disability (which cannot be reasonably accommodated) is NOT bullying, it is honest and realistic.***

[BlsdMama]

If for Pete's sake.

 

You are getting ridiculous.

 

No one was mocking anyone in this thread. You radically jumped to it based on absolutely nothing.

 

I would never mock an 11 year old.

 

I wouldn't mock a 31 year old either. However, if the 31 year old is trying to sell me what he is claiming to be professional quality written materials or if his written correspondence from his work is nearly illegible and comes across as illiterate because he didn't bother to get it edited? I'm not going to mock him, but I'm not going to buy his unprofessional shoddy materials either.

 

I wouldn't mock a cashier who can't count back my change. But I'm not going to hire her as my accountant either.

 

I also didn't say the chances of hereditary passing was wrong, I said it wasn't presenting anywhere near 50% in my house.

 

I didn't dislike OG methods because I didn't like them. I didn't like them because they didn't work for us. I'm genuinely thrilled they are working for you. But no, they are not a guaranteed fix for every person who presents with dyslexia or dyscalcula.

 

You aren't the only parent who has given blood sweat and tears to help their child learn. Even a dyslexia or dyscalculic child. You don't get to decide absolute truths for them just because of your experience. They have their own experiences that are just as valid to them.

 

As for how would I expect someone to figure out where vs were. Editing. If they know they can't edit their own work, then yes, it sucks, but if they want their writing to be respected, especially professionally, they need to have a second pair of eyes edit it for them. Having someone edit and proofread is not some horrible mark of shame or mocking to suggest this. The best writers in the world seek others to edit and proofread their materials.

 

 

Deleted.  Because once it becomes personal there is no discussion and I'm just refusing to engage.

 

I made it abundantly clear that in the professional arena there is a responsibility to proofread.  My goal was to head off a trainwreck where many people piggy back on comments mocking misspellings and grammar mistakes as I've seen happen here after years on the forum.  My goal was to educate.  I'm so glad to see several people learned from this thread.  

Edited May 5, 2016 by BlsdMama

[heartlikealion]

I'm sorry - are you reading MY posts?  Or mixing them up?  I presume everyone has dyslexia?  I was one the one who stated one in five.  That's 20%.  I know my statistics on this. 

 

Maybe they were referring to where you said:

 

 

when you see someone mixing up "your" and "you're" and "there" and "their" I can almost guarantee you're seeing a dyslexic.

 

That is what I'm guessing, but I don't know.

 

It does seem that you may be quick to jump to the conclusion. Of course, I may be dyslexic. So really, who knows.

[maize]

When I am typing, I regularly mis-type homophones such as their/they're/there, no/know, etc..

 

In fact if you were to go through all my posts on this forum, you would be sure to find multiple examples. Sometimes I catch them and go back and edit, but often I don't.

 

This isn't a matter of confusion over which is which, it has something to do with the way my brain processes words when typing. Best I can tell, I think of a word, and my fingers type a known word with the same sounds without regard for whether the word being typed is the one I intend or not. It's a weird glitch in a largely automated process.

 

I have an aunt who sometimes types entire sentences backwards without realizing she is doing so.

 

Human brains are strange and complex, and in many ways are beyond our conscious control.

[Murphy101]

Ha! The first word, and it's only two letters, of my last post is misspelled.

 

Oh well. My worst recent error was intending "public" and not noticing my error until a FB friend replied that they thought my typing "pubic" was hilarious. Pretty glad I keep my FB private and that I could edit the post. We had a good laugh. It happens.

 

My favorite meme is "Autocorrect is my worst enema."

[heartlikealion]

I posted "bought" instead of "both" on this thread earlier and edited it. But it was before the word "taught" so it's like I combined "both" and "taught" in my head lol

 

I can't tell you how often I edit posts on FB where I left out an article or something minor. Sometimes I'll delete it just so I don't have to see "edited."

[maize]

Don't you hate it when you don't notice a typo until someone quotes your post? Happens to me all.the.time :tongue_smilie:

[Haiku]

All we have to do is teach ALL kids with some kind of OG program.  

 

I don't really think that's the answer. I don't think there is a one-size solution. My dd didn't need an OG program, and it would have been a monstrous waste of time for her. She has an extremely intuitive grasp of language and was reading at a very high level at a very young age. Her amazing ability to decode combined with her large vocabulary made reading very easy for her. We did basic phonics and then let it go because she was way past even the end level of the program.

 

My son is the complete opposite. His innate grasp of language is poor. He struggled to learn to read and still struggles with fluency. Decoding is still difficult for him, and although his vocabulary is growing, it doesn't increase the way dd's does even when they are exposed to the same materials (print, audio, and environmental). My son is 13 and we are still plugging away at phonics and spelling with OG materials.

 

OG is a lifesaver for him. It was unnecessary for my dd. I'm glad we didn't have a one-size approach. The current one-size approach in schools doesn't work, and I fear that any one-size approach, regardless of the intention, wouldn't, either. It's just too hard to differentiate effectively at your average school.

[Corraleno]

When I am typing, I regularly mis-type homophones such as their/they're/there, no/know, etc..

 

This isn't a matter of confusion over which is which, it has something to do with the way my brain processes words when typing. Best I can tell, I think of a word, and my fingers type a known word with the same sounds without regard for whether the word being typed is the one I intend or not. It's a weird glitch in a largely automated process.

 

I do the same thing — even worse, my fingers will occasionally stick apostrophes in plurals, and it's certainly not because I don't know the difference! I'm often typing really quickly while thinking about something else, half-listening to a kid, wondering where the dog went, etc., and it's like my brain says "type the word that sounds like this" and my fingers randomly pick one, lol. I never make those kinds of mistakes when writing by hand.

 

Conversely, my son who IS dyslexic never mixes up their/there/they're or your/you're when he types (or writes). Why? Because in addition to clearly understanding the difference, his dyslexia and slow processing speed force him to type very slowly and deliberately, so he doesn't have the same fingers-moving-faster-than-the-brain issue that I sometimes have.

 

I strongly disagree with the contention that if you see those errors you can "basically guarantee" that the writer is dyslexic. 

[Haiku]

I strongly disagree with the contention that if you see those errors you can "basically guarantee" that the writer is dyslexic. 

 

Based on my experiences working in the print industry, I disagree, too.

[Murphy101]

I don't really think that's the answer. I don't think there is a one-size solution. My dd didn't need an OG program, and it would have been a monstrous waste of time for her. She has an extremely intuitive grasp of language and was reading at a very high level at a very young age. Her amazing ability to decode combined with her large vocabulary made reading very easy for her. We did basic phonics and then let it go because she was way past even the end level of the program.

 

My son is the complete opposite. His innate grasp of language is poor. He struggled to learn to read and still struggles with fluency. Decoding is still difficult for him, and although his vocabulary is growing, it doesn't increase the way dd's does even when they are exposed to the same materials (print, audio, and environmental). My son is 13 and we are still plugging away at phonics and spelling with OG materials.

 

OG is a lifesaver for him. It was unnecessary for my dd. I'm glad we didn't have a one-size approach. The current one-size approach in schools doesn't work, and I fear that any one-size approach, regardless of the intention, wouldn't, either. It's just too hard to differentiate effectively at your average school.

And if OG hadn't helped him, it doesn't mean you must just suck at trying to educate him either.

 

Science is rarely 100% for any condition and dyslexia is not exception.

The brain is a complex thing and the individual brain is even more so.

[Laurie4b]

I agree with you as to professional presentations. However, the misspelling of homophones is common not because a person doesn't know which is which but because... well, because they are identical when spoken. Many people "hear" what they are writing/typing in their head. On social media, our responses are quick, and we post without having time to proofread or we proofread quickly. Often good proofreading depends on some time passing between the time you write and the time you review because we have a tendency to "see" what we intended, not what is actually there. Additionally, people often post on social media in situations in which they are being interrupted. 

 

So my reaction to mistaken homophones in social sharing on social media is a shrug; I don't attribute it to anything but transient error. It's entirely different if it's a business. That is not spontaneous and as such should be planned out and the time should be taken to proofread. 

 

 

Edited May 5, 2016 by Laurie4b

[Corraleno]

I didn't dislike OG methods because I didn't like them. I didn't like them because they didn't work for us. I'm genuinely thrilled they are working for you. But no, they are not a guaranteed fix for every person who presents with dyslexia or dyscalcula.

 

You aren't the only parent who has given blood sweat and tears to help their child learn. Even a dyslexia or dyscalculic child. You don't get to decide absolute truths for them just because of your experience. They have their own experiences that are just as valid to them.

 

:iagree:

 

There are many different types of language processing disorders that tend to get lumped together as "dyslexia," when the underlying causes may be very very different. Some dyslexics are very bright, but some are average and some are below average — just like the rest of the population. Some have gifts in other areas, such as athletics or art or engineering, and some don't. Some will be greatly helped by an OG program, and some won't. It makes all the difference in the world whether a particular student's decoding issues have to do with mapping letters to sounds, or mapping words to images, or some other issue.

 

My son, for example, has no problem with phonemic awareness — when he was younger virtually all of his misspellings were phonetically accurate (oshun, wuzent, orfen, etc.). For students like this, Freed's system for visual memorization may be more effective. For DS, learning to type and seeing misspelled words underlined in red over and over improved his spelling enormously. I would say he averages about 1 or 2 misspelled words per page now (and he knows to have someone proofread any assignments before he submits them).

 

DS's brain is wired very very strongly for visual/spatial information processing, at the expense of verbal/sequential processing. He is 99th% on visual/spatial tasks, and practically in single digits for verbal processing speed and working memory tasks that involve strings of numbers and letters, because he doesn't think in words — he thinks in three-dimensional moving images. (Some people incorrectly characterize this as "picture thinking," but it's more like "cinema thinking.") 

 

I've often seen it recommended that dyslexic students should be exempt from foreign language requirements, because dyslexia makes foreign language learning incredibly difficult. In fact, DS is quite gifted at languages, and in many ways his visual/spatial wiring has actually been a help rather than a hindrance. He associates foreign words with images rather than equating them to English words, and he tends to go through an entire text quickly to memorize the grammar, which he keeps as a "map" in his head that he can plug the words into. But for him to succeed at languages, it was critical to understand how his brain worked, and how to leverage his strengths to compensate for his weaknesses. A student with dysphonetic dyslexia would need a very different approach or, in extreme cases, an exemption.

 

There is no one-size-fits-all approach to dyslexia — the only thing you can really say that applies to all dyslexics is that they deserve an education that takes their specific strengths and weaknesses into account and helps them reach their full potential, whatever that may be. 

[Murphy101]

It's unimaginable to me the differences not trying to peg children can make.

 

My son who had great difficulty reading and didn't really start to be able to until he was about 10 or 11, would be so different if I had decided he will not be able to do this and he must use this.

 

He is also my son who is close to fluent in German and working on his third language. He loves reading and writing poetry too.

 

You cannot tell now that he and I ever spent many a day for many years retreating to our corners to cry and scream at each other over reading and writing lesson struggles.

Edited May 6, 2016 by Murphy101

[BlsdMama]

It's unimaginable to me the differences not trying to peg children can make.

 

My son who had great difficulty reading and didn't really start to be able to until he was about 10 or 11, would be so different if I had decided he will not be able to do this and he must use this.

 

He is also my son who is close to fluent in German and working on his third language. He loves reading and writing poetry too.

 

You cannot tell now that he and I ever spent many a day for many years retreating to our corners to cry and scream at each other over reading and writing lesson struggles.

 

I suspect you and I have more in common than you realize. 

 

Our oldest DS was almost 11 when he began to read more than 3 letter words.  I was great with it.  And, we're blessed.  He's dyslexic/dysgraphic.  HIs mind is amazing.  Truly.  

[BlsdMama]

I don't really think that's the answer. I don't think there is a one-size solution. My dd didn't need an OG program, and it would have been a monstrous waste of time for her. She has an extremely intuitive grasp of language and was reading at a very high level at a very young age. Her amazing ability to decode combined with her large vocabulary made reading very easy for her. We did basic phonics and then let it go because she was way past even the end level of the program.

 

My son is the complete opposite. His innate grasp of language is poor. He struggled to learn to read and still struggles with fluency. Decoding is still difficult for him, and although his vocabulary is growing, it doesn't increase the way dd's does even when they are exposed to the same materials (print, audio, and environmental). My son is 13 and we are still plugging away at phonics and spelling with OG materials.

 

OG is a lifesaver for him. It was unnecessary for my dd. I'm glad we didn't have a one-size approach. The current one-size approach in schools doesn't work, and I fear that any one-size approach, regardless of the intention, wouldn't, either. It's just too hard to differentiate effectively at your average school.

 

 

I don't know what the solution is.  I have a child that was reading before she turned three.  You're right - for her it would be a waste of time.  But I don't know what a school does when it doesn't remediate effectively or when it does it is a year or two down the road when the child is falling further and further behind his peers who are reading and their vocabulary is growing.  :(  There must be a solution.  We can't leave those kids in the dirt.... The prison stats bear it out.  

 

You must admit we are an unusual bunch on this board.  All of us, regardless of where our kids are educated or what method, have invested families.  Generally I'd guess we have a language rich environment, both spoken word, print word, and vocabulary.  Our kids succeed because we just continue on to help them.

 

But what about the schools?  What about the teachers who are not equipped?  It's no fault of theirs.  And the curriculum just isn't cutting mustard for a large percentage of kids.  Ran across this just this afternoon.  http://www.npr.org/sections/ed/2016/04/21/474850688/9-out-of-10-parents-think-their-kids-are-on-grade-level-theyre-probably-wrong  

 

I'm glad for the kids who don't need the OG methods.  But whaddya do?

[Murphy101]

I suspect you and I have more in common than you realize.

 

Our oldest DS was almost 11 when he began to read more than 3 letter words. I was great with it. And, we're blessed. He's dyslexic/dysgraphic. HIs mind is amazing. Truly.

Firstly. Truely. My post was not directed at you. It was an expanded agreement with corraleno that it's important we keep in mind that we likely aren't going to have a simple or fits everyone fix for anything, especially neurological issues, anytime soon.

 

Secondly. I think most minds are amazing. Sometimes mostly amazingly confusing, but still amazing just the same. And I'm a big believer of the theory that all children are blessing. 😀

[Murphy101]

I think the key for my kids was not being in school to be honest. As it was, we still had to combat feeling stupid and starting to think they'd never be smart enough. Bc just having siblings was enough. They weren't stupid. They know when a sibling two year younger is doing better than them at something and no amount of my telling them it doesn't matter and discouraging rivalry changes that it does matter to them.

 

Once kids start to think they can't do it, it's damned hard to help them. And studies have shown that mentality is often cemented in a child's core self belief as young as 2nd grade and is almost impossible to reverse without very intensive and extensive support by 4th grade. (Don't ask for links!! I don't have them. I just distinctly remember reading it bc at the time it really resonated with me deeply and affected my own attitude.)

 

Home schooling my kids didn't entirely make it a non issue. But it did greatly reduce how acute it was/is.

 

Half the battle to teaching a kid who is struggling is just convincing them it's possible.

 

ETA: and we can now tell I took meds 20 minutes ago... Typing errors abound. lol

Edited May 6, 2016 by Murphy101

[Scarlett]

I will say grammar mistakes annoy me. And every time I point out a mistake it is likely I will suddenly make a mistake.

 

As far as all minds being amazing..,,,oh my. My Dh...who is truly one of the smartest men I know.....has the craziest problems with words. And reading out loud. I stand in awe of him..wondering how a man who can invent and create and memorize all sorts of civil codes....can't remember how to spell crowds. It makes me giggle....but I don't want to make him feel bad.

 

Really.....it humbles me.