PSA: Check the grammar & spelling!!!

[Seasider]

Ok maybe this is really a rant. Or a JAWM, whatever.

 

If you are posting on social media to represent IN ANY WAY your organization, which focuses on providing educational services with lofty goals attached, check your spelling and grammar!!!!

 

Otherwise, you are not helping your cause one bit. You can't sell superior grammar and spelling instruction if you cannot demonstrate satisfactory grammar and spelling. If you have volunteers helping out with PR, insist on proofreading. Be professional. Act like your business depends on it.

 

Ok, done. Carry on.

[plansrme]

Just a warning:  I once, long ago, posted something similar about a repeatedly-misused word in a well-known science curriculum (it was in the curriculum, not even in their postings on social media), and I was lambasted for considering that a reason not to use additional products from this provider.  Obviously, I agree with you, but on my desk right now, I have (1) the science curriculum with the mistakes; and (2) a literature program that repeatedly misspells its own name (it's Lightning Literature, not Lightening Literature, Hewitt!).  There have been so many examples over the years, but these are the two literally sitting on my desk at this moment.  Proofreading is a lost art, or perhaps spelling is the lost art.  (Really, though, probably 80% of the errors I see on social media could be alleviated if people would just learn the not-very-complicated difference between "your" and "you're" and between "there" and "their."  Seriously, 80%.)

Edited May 3, 2016 by plansrme

[regentrude]

Amen.

And if you have students in college, make sure they know that sending an email with grammatical and spelling mistakes to an instructor creates the impression that they don't care (at best) and does not generate much good will to grant special favors.

Edited May 3, 2016 by regentrude

[Liz CA]

 (Really, though, probably 80% of the errors I see on social media could be alleviated if people would just learn the not-very-complicated difference between "your" and "you're" and between "there" and "their."  Seriously, 80%.)

 

Yes...and verb forms. I frequently read in progress notes that could potentially be subpoenaed by courts: "This writer seen client go..."

These are High School grads, some even have a college education.

[BlsdMama]

  (Really, though, probably 80% of the errors I see on social media could be alleviated if people would just learn the not-very-complicated difference between "your" and "you're" and between "there" and "their."  Seriously, 80%.)

 

 

I don't mind lambasting a business for not proofing their own work, especially when they are working on a book.  This is the point of having an editor, yes?  AND in a professional arena, one should recognize shortcomings, such as a serious spelling deficiency.

 

I'm quoting you, plnsrme, but it's a general outcall on what generally devolves into: "Yeah, what the heck is wrong with people that they can't spell?"  So when I use "you" in the next bit, it's not to the specific YOU but a general YOU as in - everyone who has a little superiority complex and doesn't know any better.

 

Only to help you so that you aren't ignorant of the fact - when you see someone mixing up "your" and "you're" and "there" and "their" I can almost guarantee you're seeing a dyslexic.

You have a neurotypical brain.  This is no amazing feat of your own effort.  It's the WAY YOU WERE BORN.  But let's not glorify it and think it makes anyone special because you inadvertently picked up on the difference.  Neither does it make me stupid because I am not intrinsically blessed with a neurotypical brain, great natural spelling power, but a complete lack of spatial reasoning.  I will never be an engineer.  

 

I was you once - though I was probably MORE full of myself about it, but now I know better.  Now you do too.

 

"If I belittle those who I am called to serve,

talk of their weak points

in contrast perhaps with that I think of as my strong points;

if I adopt a superior attitude,

forgetting 'who has made thee to differ?  and what hast though that thou hast not received?'

(then I know nothing of Calvary love.)

 

The point being - being born with a neurotypical brain is just that - nothing you achieved.  I never learned a thing in spelling class. I already knew all the words before the first pre-test and yet, I always felt superior.

 

Did the others not try? Were the less bright?  No.  It's the biological difference between the two brain differences.  And God, in His infinite sense of humor, chose to knock me down a peg or two by giving me at least six dyslexics so far.  Now I know better, now I share the knowledge with you.

[JumpyTheFrog]

The "their/there" problem is so rampant that all these people can't possibly be dyslexic. I think it's because most schools don't put much effort into grammar and writing in younger grades.

[skimomma]

I am one of "those people" that notice and twitch and JUDGE every time I see a spelling or grammar error on signs, publications, etc....  I do behave and not make a stink but I do have a like-minded friend that has the same tendencies.  To keep ourselves from being jerks in public, we enjoy texting examples we see to each other.  There is one that we have voted the very best of the best:

 

Our local library had a funding vote approaching and it was hotly debated.  There was a large group of people who felt that the library should not be publicly funded and should be pay-to-use.  They had signs everywhere that stated, "Fee's not Taxes!"  The irony was almost too much!  You can just imagine how smugly the opposition capitalized on that little mistake.  The voters did overwhelmingly approve the funding.

 

 

[happypamama]

To me, I look at it as how you represent your organization, and putting people where they have skills. My DH's company doesn't send the guy they just hired two weeks ago to sell jobs; they send they guy who's been there many years and who has the knowledge and skills needed to inspire confidence. When I worked as a real estate agent, it wasn't (mild, too-nice) I who did the tough negotiating; it was the other agent, the one who was known for negotiating skills. If you're promoting your brand in graphics, you don't use someone who draws stick figures; you pick someone with an artistic sense and skill. If you're promoting your brand in print, especially if it involves education, you make sure people can proofread, spell, edit. There's a place for everyone, but that doesn't mean that everyone can or should do every job well. If I see public signs misspelled, or a website with obviously incorrect punctuation, that's an instant turn-off if they're promoting anything educational. (And it's doubly frustrating if it's something that multiple people would have needed to approve.)

[BlsdMama]

The "their/there" problem is so rampant that all these people can't possibly be dyslexic. I think it's because most schools don't put much effort into grammar and writing in younger grades.

 

I really believed like you did it.  But ya know what?  They didn't pound it down my little throat either.  Sure, it was taught, and I picked it up the first go 'round, but was it taught various ways?  Hit dozens of times?  No.  I sure don't remember it that way.  You, me, we picked it up - our brains were hardwired to pick up on the nuances of the written language.

 

Let me ask, sincerely,  do you honestly believe that schools, no matter how negligent our schools can be, that elementary teachers are SO negligent that they don't bother to teach: there/they're/their?  Or you and you're and contraction useage? Of course they do.  That's just silly dismissal.  Look for  the deeper answer.

 

Those kids just struggling to decode at that point did NOT because they weren't at a place that they could.  Now, as adults, let me tell you, they constantly can't "remember" (for lack of a better word for intrinsically lacking the visual memory to recall specific spelling varieties of homonyms) and they are VERY self conscious about it.  DH has an MS and an MBA and he still emails before he'll use the words:  "loose/lose and shoot/shot" and I think there are a couple others.  Over and over again and he cannot for the life of him figure out why he can't remember the difference.

 

 

Statistically?

 

 

 

1 in 5.

 

Current scientific statistics.

 

 1 in FIVE

 

Now you know.

Edited May 3, 2016 by BlsdMama

[almondbutterandjelly]

I really believed like you did it.  But ya know what?  They didn't pound it down my little throat either.  Sure, it was taught, and I picked it up the first go 'round, but was it taught various ways?  Hit dozens of times?  No.  I sure don't remember it that way.  You, me, we picked it up - our brains were hardwired to pick up on the nuances of the written language.

 

Let me ask, sincerely,  do you honestly believe that schools, no matter how negligent our schools can be, that elementary teachers are SO negligent that they don't bother to teach: there/they're/their?  Or you and you're and contraction useage? Of course they do.  That's just silly dismissal.  Look for  the deeper answer.

 

Those kids just struggling to decode at that point did NOT because they weren't at a place that they could.  Now, as adults, let me tell you, they constantly can't "remember" (for lack of a better word for intrinsically lacking the visual memory to recall specific spelling varieties of homonyms) and they are VERY self conscious about it.  DH has an MS and an MBA and he still emails before he'll use the words:  "loose/lose and shoot/shot" and I think there are a couple others.  Over and over again and he cannot for the life of him figure out why he can't remember the difference.

 

 

Statistically?

 

 

 

1 in 5.

 

Current scientific statistics.

 

 1 in FIVE

 

Now you know.

Thank you, BlsdMama.  That is humbling.  I have always been a natural speller, and I used to get annoyed with words spelled wrong.  But you're right.  It's not that I'm so awesome.  I was just gifted with a spelling ability.  Some people are not.  That does not make me better.  

 

That said, I do agree that perhaps businesses should have people edit their stuff.

[PinkTulip]

Things like that really bug me, and would doubly bug me if it were a spelling curriculum that had words spelled wrong.

 

The one that really gets under my skin is a huge banner going down the stairwell wall at my kids Junior High, that celebrates Leonardo DaVinci as a great "philosopher, artist, and sciencetist." Ugh!

[iamonlyone]

My child got a recruitment postcard with a misspelling from a college. :huh:

[JumpyTheFrog]

1 in 5.

 

20%?! Whoa! Do you know if the rate is similar in other countries, especially those with more phonetic languages? Do you know if the rate is different between schools that use intense phonics vs. mostly sight reading? I was under the impression that many (but not all) kids diagnosed with dyslexia don't really have it, but rather seem to have it because they were taught to guess at words.

 

In any case, me thinking many schools don't work on homophones much doesn't mean I don't believe dyslexic students have trouble with it.

[Tsuga]

Just a warning:  I once, long ago, posted something similar about a repeatedly-misused word in a well-known science curriculum (it was in the curriculum, not even in their postings on social media), and I was lambasted for considering that a reason not to use additional products from this provider.  Obviously, I agree with you, but on my desk right now, I have (1) the science curriculum with the mistakes; and (2) a literature program that repeatedly misspells its own name (it's Lightning Literature, not Lightening Literature, Hewitt!).  There have been so many examples over the years, but these are the two literally sitting on my desk at this moment.  Proofreading is a lost art, or perhaps spelling is the lost art.  (Really, though, probably 80% of the errors I see on social media could be alleviated if people would just learn the not-very-complicated difference between "your" and "you're" and between "there" and "their."  Seriously, 80%.)

 

I will say one thing.

 

My phone autocorrects to the WRONG you're and their at times. I don't post to social media for this among so. many. other. reasons. but I try to give educated people the benefit of the doubt when that happens.

 

Doesn't change the fact that people need to check, of course.

[Guest]

Meh.

[displace]

I was going to post too re: dyslexia. I used to always think it was a lack of proofreading, education, caring, or something else to cause misspellings after a certain age/status/level of learning. DS has taught me a thing or two about how we are all different and our brains don't all think alike. If I had to be creative or imaginative on a daily basis I would fail! For me, knowing the correct spelling is a logical process requiring a certain thought and memory chain. For others it may be an impossible path through their brain from the left brain to the right to the occipital to the left again in a Curley-que fashion instead of a few inches to one area of the brain. In the meantime their curley-que path has discovered the meaning of life :)

 

FWIW, I still feel disappointed if companies have misspellings, as I think they should have proofreaders. After seeing public schools I'm more inclined to think there are education problems as well (my public schools do not teach spelling or handwriting at all). We make judgements based on what is shown to us and a business is trying to make a good impression, but it may fail because of proofreading.

 

I read more carefully the JAWM and I do re: business posts, just to clarify :)

Edited May 3, 2016 by displace

[BlsdMama]

20%?! Whoa! Do you know if the rate is similar in other countries, especially those with more phonetic languages? Do you know if the rate is different between schools that use intense phonics vs. mostly sight reading? I was under the impression that many (but not all) kids diagnosed with dyslexia don't really have it, but rather seem to have it because they were taught to guess at words.

 

In any case, me thinking many schools don't work on homophones much doesn't mean I don't believe dyslexic students have trouble with it.

It's crazy isn't it????

 

Crazy.

 

I was so ANTI dyslexic (and in denial, I'd add that) that I actually had my two boys evaluated by two entirely separate humans, in two different cities.  Not kidding - I wanted a clear, unbiased answer.

 

So dyslexia is a brain difference.  If you had an MRI done of your kiddo's brain you'd be able to tell in an instant if they are or are not dyslexic because a neuro-typ's brain is not symmetrical with the left side being larger than the right BUT in dyslexics? The sides are equal.  The right side is CREATED the same size (assuming my belief of God of course) and takes over functions it really isn't streamlined well for - which is why the dyslexic brain just doesn't read/spell the same way as you and me.  You and I have a super highway when it comes to reading.  They take the scenic route... And it isn't super efficient.  Now, that said, they are highly gifted in areas where we aren't.  More boys are diagnosed than girls but it is not science -they are equally affected but for some reason girls are better at compensating.  It does happen in countries equally but not the same... In other words people are affected the same but it can play out differently because of their language structure because dyslexia is, more than most things, directional.  It isn't remotely JUST a reading/spelling issue, it's just the most likely thing to continually notice.  Watch a 5yo dyslexic try to learn to tie their shoes and you'll know what I mean.  

 

 

So I actually got to tutor an adult with dyslexia and sit next to his son (13yo) who was being tutored.  His son lacked such phonemic awareness that he could not "hear" the difference between a few vowels.  In other words, his ears worked fine, but he had almost no differentiation.  Bright kid.  Liked him, wasn't a matter of anyone not teaching it to him, his brain could not differentiate it.  How do you spell if you can't even "hear" between 'a' as in apple and 'o' as in octopus?

 

There is a difference with success rates and methods.  It doesn't change that they are dyslexic.  My son scored at 99% in reading.  He scored above grade level in spelling.  He is actually categorized as moderately dyslexic.  He performs well because of remediation and teaching strategies (and because, IMO, a new study has been published that states it could be because there is a third type of brain - dyslexic/dysgraphic which is gifted with an incredible memory.)  However, I have this super achieving kid, absolutely paranoid about misspelling, worried someone will perceive him as stupid for exactly what we're talking about.  Will he misspell something like anthropologist?  Nope.  Will he misspell their?  Every. Time.  It constantly has to be on his radar.  Do I think it's an excuse for someone to put it on a business sign or in a textbook or even in a professional email?  No.  My DS sends me every email he sends for proofing before he actually sends it out.  However, some grace needs to be given because we aren't just SuperAwesomeHumansoftheUniverse because we can spell.  No!  It's just biologic - we're wired for it.  And honestly, this is my hill to die on.

 

 I will spend the rest of my life trying to teach people the truth about dyslexia.  

 

 

I am my child's advocate and it's darn sure time we help others understand what's going on here. (And advocate for education reform for EVERY child - general population of dyslexia rate is 20% but it is currently believed prison population is FIFTY percent.  If those guys were remediated as children, would they be where they are?  Or have they felt frustrated and stupid their entire lives? Something to think on.)

[BlsdMama]

Thank you, BlsdMama.  That is humbling.  I have always been a natural speller, and I used to get annoyed with words spelled wrong.  But you're right.  It's not that I'm so awesome.  I was just gifted with a spelling ability.  Some people are not.  That does not make me better.  

 

That said, I do agree that perhaps businesses should have people edit their stuff.

 

 

I love you.  :D

 

 

Truly, it is people who are willing to listen to the facts, internalize them, and change their train of thought that eventually get remediation in our schools.  And probably lower the prison rates.  And set these kids up for success.  They have THE brain to conquer the world.  I am jealous of the dyslexic brain a disproportionate amount of my day. ;)  But they are told from the time they are FIVE YEARS old that they don't get it, that they aren't doing right, that others are better than they are.  These are the kids that are actually set up to FLY in STEM fields.  But we label them underachievers, stick them in low groups, and hold them back through reading skills instead of remediating.  We slit our own throats at academic achievement.  And we break their hearts.  :(  And mine.

[mamiof5]

This has nothing to do with this conversation... but I am still laughing at how directly the title of the thread was speaking to me. Spent some time this morning trying to catch up checking the kids' grammar and spelling...going over mistakes made at least a couple weeks ago? And then I read the title of the thread. For a minute I wondered how did you know I was behind :)

[JumpyTheFrog]

(And advocate for education reform for EVERY child - general population of dyslexia rate is 20% but it is currently believed prison population is FIFTY percent.  If those guys were remediated as children, would they be where they are?  Or have they felt frustrated and stupid their entire lives? Something to think on.)

 

 

I know ElizabethB has quoted stats about the high percent of the prison population that is functionally illiterate.

 

I am definitely for reading remediation of everyone who needs it. Wasted potential because someone wasn't given a proper education or was pigeon-holed really bothers me. The data about how only about 1/3 of students (including in 12th grade) can read at grade level is infuriating. No wonder so many college students drop out. Even if they have the money, way too many of them probably can't read well enough to understand their textbooks.

[regentrude]

Will he misspell something like anthropologist?  Nope.  Will he misspell their?  Every. Time.  It constantly has to be on his radar. 

 

May I ask a question? Since you know so much about dyslexia, do you have an explanation WHY he can spell complicated words but not simple ones?

And another one: dyslexia does not affect grammar, or does it? I am not talking your/you're, but sentence structure and tenses.

 

 

As an aside: I should clarify for my earlier post that it is not an occasional misspelling or isolated typo in an email that creates a bad impression. The heavily misspelled emails typically are also the ones with bad grammar, lack of salutation, and rambling questions about things that are in the syllabus. So, I highly doubt these are all dyslexic students because that would not explain all the other stuff.

Edited May 3, 2016 by regentrude

[JumpyTheFrog]

As an aside: I should clarify for my earlier post that it is not an occasional misspelling or isolated typo in an email that creates a bad impression. The heavily misspelled emails typically are also the ones with bad grammar, lack of salutation, and rambling questions about things that are in the syllabus. So, I highly doubt these are all dyslexic students because that would not explain all the other stuff.

 

I read so many poorly written comments online (usually at news websites) that I also find it hard to believe that dyslexia accounts for all of it. Now of course, some people aren't native speakers, which I understand. But most of them appear to be native speakers that can't seem to string together three coherent sentences. And no, autocorrect or typing on a phone can't explain it all, either.

[Incognito]

I'm not BlsdMama, but I can tell you my observations on the spelling thing.  It seems, in our case, to be that the brain can't slow down to pay attention to the little words.  It's the issue in reading and spelling.  I think a lot of it has to to with the ease of moving things around in their mind's eye - the short words are easy to flip the letters around because they aren't big and anchored in a certain orientation.  It's painful and ridiculous.  My child could read and spell beautiful, but couldn't get the/girl/was spelled right consistently even if  their life depended on it.  

 

So much of the issue is with the processing of sound - I hadn't realized how important sound is in reading.  So I get the impression that if at all possible my child will purely memorize the order of spelling and letters, but not actually put the spelling together with the sounds that make the word.  We've done a lot of remediation and there has been a lot of improvement, but the underlying circuitous route my child takes to getting the words read and/or spelled never goes away - they get faster, but they can't build a shortcut to the answer.

 

ETA: As far as the OP goes, I totally agree.  I think anyone who is selling a skill should be either good at it or have people around them who are good at it.  

 

I hope that as my child ages they will continue to be willing to use the things that will help them spell and read in a way that they can communicate clearly with others, and that they will have the self-confidence to not care about those who can't see past the problem to the person.  And I sure hope this child doesn't try to sell a spelling or grammar curriculum, at least without someone else proofing it for them first! :) 

Edited May 3, 2016 by Incognito

[JumpyTheFrog]

So much of the issue is with the processing of sound - I hadn't realized how important sound is in reading. 

 

This makes me wonder how many reading problems are made worse by the "word gap." If parents or childcare workers aren't talking to kids in certain groups very much, it seems reasonable to think those kids will be years behind in phonemic awareness, which would make reading problems worse.

[Seasider]

I don't mind lambasting a business for not proofing their own work, especially when they are working on a book. This is the point of having an editor, yes? AND in a professional arena, one should recognize shortcomings, such as a serious spelling deficiency.

 

I'm quoting you, plnsrme, but it's a general outcall on what generally devolves into: "Yeah, what the heck is wrong with people that they can't spell?" So when I use "you" in the next bit, it's not to the specific YOU but a general YOU as in - everyone who has a little superiority complex and doesn't know any better.

 

Only to help you so that you aren't ignorant of the fact - when you see someone mixing up "your" and "you're" and "there" and "their" I can almost guarantee you're seeing a dyslexic.

You have a neurotypical brain. This is no amazing feat of your own effort. It's the WAY YOU WERE BORN. But let's not glorify it and think it makes anyone special because you inadvertently picked up on the difference. Neither does it make me stupid because I am not intrinsically blessed with a neurotypical brain, great natural spelling power, but a complete lack of spatial reasoning. I will never be an engineer.

 

I was you once - though I was probably MORE full of myself about it, but now I know better. Now you do too.

 

"If I belittle those who I am called to serve,

talk of their weak points

in contrast perhaps with that I think of as my strong points;

if I adopt a superior attitude,

forgetting 'who has made thee to differ? and what hast though that thou hast not received?'

(then I know nothing of Calvary love.)

 

The point being - being born with a neurotypical brain is just that - nothing you achieved. I never learned a thing in spelling class. I already knew all the words before the first pre-test and yet, I always felt superior.

 

Did the others not try? Were the less bright? No. It's the biological difference between the two brain differences. And God, in His infinite sense of humor, chose to knock me down a peg or two by giving me at least six dyslexics so far. Now I know better, now I share the knowledge with you.

I did not mean to slam/overlook those with dyslexia, dysgraphia, etc. That's when a reliable proofreader is essential. Anyone who is challenged in spelling should use whatever tools necessary (proofreader, spell check, a good secretary, etc), when necessary. My dh and a dd are in this category and have learned to have their copy checked before publishing.

 

My rant is about those in the profession of education asking customers to trust them with passing on their superior skills. In such cases I am reluctant to give anyone a pass for poor grammar and spelling.

[Seasider]

On the other hand, their target clientele wouldn't know the difference. (LOL)

Ha! You have a point there...

[Scarlett]

I got an invitation to a wedding the other day where the bride's name was misspelled as well as a religious name.  Oh and her dead father invited us to the wedding. 

[MistyMountain]

For a professional thing it should be obviously proofread but people are human and articles like that come out a lot faster now.

 

It has been a pet peeve of mine though when people rant about how stupid or poorly educated people are becuase they spell poorly or do not know whether to use their, there and they're. I see so many comments calling people stupid because they have difficulty with spelling, sentence structure or grammar. Those challenges occur with dyslexia and other common learning challenges and it does not mean those people are unintelligent or thoughtless. I do not think everyone gets the instruction they need. It is not a simple fix that you can solve with a lesson on how to use those words or some spelling instruction.

 

I myself can spell ok except for more difficult words but I have dysgraphia. I not only struggle with sloppy handwriting but with getting thoughts into writing in a clear and concise manner. Autocorrect and a poor typing ability make it even worse. I am very intelligent but my writing is not that good. People can have a weakness in one area but superior strengths in other areas.

[displace]

It's crazy isn't it????

 

Crazy.

 

I was so ANTI dyslexic (and in denial, I'd add that) that I actually had my two boys evaluated by two entirely separate humans, in two different cities. Not kidding - I wanted a clear, unbiased answer.

 

So dyslexia is a brain difference. If you had an MRI done of your kiddo's brain you'd be able to tell in an instant if they are or are not dyslexic because a neuro-typ's brain is not symmetrical with the left side being larger than the right BUT in dyslexics? The sides are equal. The right side is CREATED the same size (assuming my belief of God of course) and takes over functions it really isn't streamlined well for - which is why the dyslexic brain just doesn't read/spell the same way as you and me. You and I have a super highway when it comes to reading. They take the scenic route... And it isn't super efficient. Now, that said, they are highly gifted in areas where we aren't. More boys are diagnosed than girls but it is not science -they are equally affected but for some reason girls are better at compensating. It does happen in countries equally but not the same... In other words people are affected the same but it can play out differently because of their language structure because dyslexia is, more than most things, directional. It isn't remotely JUST a reading/spelling issue, it's just the most likely thing to continually notice. Watch a 5yo dyslexic try to learn to tie their shoes and you'll know what I mean.

 

 

So I actually got to tutor an adult with dyslexia and sit next to his son (13yo) who was being tutored. His son lacked such phonemic awareness that he could not "hear" the difference between a few vowels. In other words, his ears worked fine, but he had almost no differentiation. Bright kid. Liked him, wasn't a matter of anyone not teaching it to him, his brain could not differentiate it. How do you spell if you can't even "hear" between 'a' as in apple and 'o' as in octopus?

 

There is a difference with success rates and methods. It doesn't change that they are dyslexic. My son scored at 99% in reading. He scored above grade level in spelling. He is actually categorized as moderately dyslexic. He performs well because of remediation and teaching strategies (and because, IMO, a new study has been published that states it could be because there is a third type of brain - dyslexic/dysgraphic which is gifted with an incredible memory.) However, I have this super achieving kid, absolutely paranoid about misspelling, worried someone will perceive him as stupid for exactly what we're talking about. Will he misspell something like anthropologist? Nope. Will he misspell their? Every. Time. It constantly has to be on his radar. Do I think it's an excuse for someone to put it on a business sign or in a textbook or even in a professional email? No. My DS sends me every email he sends for proofing before he actually sends it out. However, some grace needs to be given because we aren't just SuperAwesomeHumansoftheUniverse because we can spell. No! It's just biologic - we're wired for it. And honestly, this is my hill to die on.

 

I will spend the rest of my life trying to teach people the truth about dyslexia.

 

 

I am my child's advocate and it's darn sure time we help others understand what's going on here. (And advocate for education reform for EVERY child - general population of dyslexia rate is 20% but it is currently believed prison population is FIFTY percent. If those guys were remediated as children, would they be where they are? Or have they felt frustrated and stupid their entire lives? Something to think on.)

Do you have that study re:dyslexia/dysgraphia? I'd love to read it.

[happypamama]

I got an invitation to a wedding the other day where the bride's name was misspelled as well as a religious name.  Oh and her dead father invited us to the wedding. 

The bride's name?!?!  That's terrible!

[Scarlett]

The bride's name?!?! That's terrible!

IKR. It was very painful. I didn't say a word to anyone....but my son notice.

 

And the religious name misspelled was as bad if not worse....it would be like misspelling God.

[Murphy101]

Expecting professional work to be edited and proofread in a professional manner is not anti-anything other than shoddy unprofessional work.

 

1 in 5 with dyslexia means 4 in 5 don't have it and 1 in 5 know they need to make sure someone else double checks their editing or in some other manner over compensate for their difficulty so they can deliver a quality product in a professional manner.

[JumpyTheFrog]

1 in 5 with dyslexia means 4 in 5 don't have it and 1 in 5 know they need to make sure someone else double checks their editing or in some other manner over compensate for their difficulty so they can deliver a quality product in a professional manner.

Good point. I am terrible with building things and I know it. I definitely know enough to not go into construction as a career. If I did build something, however, I'd have my handy DH look it over for sturdiness.

[Incognito]

This makes me wonder how many reading problems are made worse by the "word gap." If parents or childcare workers aren't talking to kids in certain groups very much, it seems reasonable to think those kids will be years behind in phonemic awareness, which would make reading problems worse.

 

I am sure there is some truth to the idea that kids who hear less words would deal with the sounds less, but in our case one of the frustrating things about it all is that we literally did it all, way more than normal because words are one of my passions.  It didn't matter.  Or maybe it did matter, but it didn't alleviate the dyslexia.  

 

I believe that there are challenges of environment which do cause a lot of problems for a lot of kids, but dyslexia itself really is a different type of brain, so even a good environment doesn't "solve" the difference.

[Tammi K]

I am one of "those people" that notice and twitch and JUDGE every time I see a spelling or grammar error on signs, publications, etc....  I do behave and not make a stink but I do have a like-minded friend that has the same tendencies.  To keep ourselves from being jerks in public, we enjoy texting examples we see to each other.  There is one that we have voted the very best of the best:

 

 

 

I am convinced I will never serve jury duty because I can truthfully tell the lawyers that the first time I hear improper grammar their case is lost.  My eyes will roll back into my head and I will  not hear another word they say.  :w00t:

[heartlikealion]

I have seen "your" and "you're" and other homophones mixed up so many times, I really doubt that the majority were dyslexic. But I will pause and think about that now.

 

And I don't think people think they are awesome for spelling basic words correctly. They are just annoyed when it's done incorrectly so often by others or in a professional context where maybe two sets of eyes should have been utilized. I probably have dyscalculia so I get mixing up some things I guess. I'm terrible with phone numbers and such.

 

I live in a state with very poor education. I can tell you, many people just don't know basic English stuff. Not that I'm perfect by any means. But I've seen and heard so much I default to "this person doesn't know any better."

[kitten18]

Good point. I am terrible with building things and I know it. I definitely know enough to not go into construction as a career. If I did build something, however, I'd have my handy DH look it over for sturdiness.

I imagine it was fairly easy for you to avoid a career in construction. Dyslexics need to communicate in writing every day (probably many times a day). It's exhausting for them. Edited May 4, 2016 by kitten18

[Ausmumof3]

May I ask a question? Since you know so much about dyslexia, do you have an explanation WHY he can spell complicated words but not simple ones?

And another one: dyslexia does not affect grammar, or does it? I am not talking your/you're, but sentence structure and tenses.

 

 

As an aside: I should clarify for my earlier post that it is not an occasional misspelling or isolated typo in an email that creates a bad impression. The heavily misspelled emails typically are also the ones with bad grammar, lack of salutation, and rambling questions about things that are in the syllabus. So, I highly doubt these are all dyslexic students because that would not explain all the other stuff.

I'm not an expert in dyslexia but I've seen this before. I've always thought it's because some people look at the shape of the whole word and the shape difference between their and there isn't huge whereas the bigger words have a more distinct shape. Also a long word that follows the rules is easier to figure out than usage of a short word where two words sound the same and it's only context that makes the difference as to why it's spelled one way. One is a kind of arbitrary rule whereas the other follows normal phonics rules.

[Murphy101]

I imagine it was fairly easy for you to avoid a career in construction. Dyslexics need to communicate in writing every day (probably many times a day). It's exhausting for them.

But most can get through life without making a living selling their finished written product as a professional quality item.

 

Most aren't complaining about a text or FB post not being professionally edited.

 

But if the written product is being sold as professional, then yes it should be professionally edited and if that's too exhausting for them, then they are in the wrong profession.

[Haiku]

My son has dyslexia. He is a poor speller. My dh does not have dyslexia. He is a poor speller. Personally, knowing what I know about dyslexia and having been heavily involved with the print industry for years, I do not believe that the majority of spelling and grammar issues are because people have dyslexia.

 

I believe that it is because we do an ineffective job teaching people to use written language differently than they use spoken language. We rely on using language "by ear," and we teach kids reams of rules without really teaching them why. It's not surprising that a lot of people don't remember the rules and the correct spellings and grammatical usages.

 

We have the same problem with math, and I don't think it's because so many people have dyscalculia.

 

When I ask people who misuse things like their and they're (and I have been in the position to legitimately ask this; I don't just rudely and randomly ask people), I almost always get a variation on the same answer: "What's the difference?"

 

My son can't write them correctly, but when he sees them, he knows the difference.

 

If someone doesn't know why and when and how to appropriately use an apostrophe, chances are they won't use the words correctly. If we give kids lists of rules to memorize, chances are they won't be interested. If you were to ask my husband why he spells poorly and misuses commas, he would say "Because I don't care." And he doesn't. Language is not interesting to him, so he doesn't care. Yet he works in an industry in which he has to be able to use words and symbols (not communicative language) very precisely, and because that part of it interests him, he excels.

 

Certainly, mistakes are made because people are dyslexic. But, imo and ime, more mistakes are made because we don't teach effectively and we have a very casual attitude toward our language.

[BlsdMama]

I know ElizabethB has quoted stats about the high percent of the prison population that is functionally illiterate.

 

I am definitely for reading remediation of everyone who needs it. Wasted potential because someone wasn't given a proper education or was pigeon-holed really bothers me. The data about how only about 1/3 of students (including in 12th grade) can read at grade level is infuriating. No wonder so many college students drop out. Even if they have the money, way too many of them probably can't read well enough to understand their textbooks.

 

 

Deeply affected - So think of the brain like a computer.  Imagine it's running this massive program - decoding the letters into words.  Because it's so bogged down with decoding, comprehension drops like a rock.  Seriously.  People with dyslexia, when reading more complicated material, have to read and reread material, or don't pick up nearly as much information.

[BlsdMama]

May I ask a question? Since you know so much about dyslexia, do you have an explanation WHY he can spell complicated words but not simple ones?

And another one: dyslexia does not affect grammar, or does it? I am not talking your/you're, but sentence structure and tenses.

 

 

As an aside: I should clarify for my earlier post that it is not an occasional misspelling or isolated typo in an email that creates a bad impression. The heavily misspelled emails typically are also the ones with bad grammar, lack of salutation, and rambling questions about things that are in the syllabus. So, I highly doubt these are all dyslexic students because that would not explain all the other stuff.

 

 

I think there is an explanation for it, but I don't know it off the top of my head. It is a trademark symptom though.

 

Does it affect grammar?  YES!

 

As a matter of fact it's one of the first ways you can be signalled you are looking a dyslexic pre-schooler.  They misuse pronouns longer than they ought.  

 

Later, the ability to use commas and periods can be significantly impaired if they lack prosody.  Essentially it is the rhythm of language - do you know how, when you read a sentence, you can just tell where the comma should go - you essentially hear a natural pause?  Kids who lack prosody don't hear that rhythm.  Their reading aloud is often stilted as well too. 

 

When DS was evaluated we had to turn in samples of his work and she asked for permission to use his paper as an example for her speaking engagements.  Why? 

He had written a wonderful analysis of Lord of the Rings, complex, thoughtful, great vocabulary.  It was about two pages long if I remember.   It had ONE period.  One - at the very end of the paper.

 

;)

[Guest]

I really believed like you did it. But ya know what? They didn't pound it down my little throat either. Sure, it was taught, and I picked it up the first go 'round, but was it taught various ways? Hit dozens of times? No. I sure don't remember it that way. You, me, we picked it up - our brains were hardwired to pick up on the nuances of the written language.

 

Let me ask, sincerely, do you honestly believe that schools, no matter how negligent our schools can be, that elementary teachers are SO negligent that they don't bother to teach: there/they're/their? Or you and you're and contraction useage? Of course they do. That's just silly dismissal. Look for the deeper answer.

 

Those kids just struggling to decode at that point did NOT because they weren't at a place that they could. Now, as adults, let me tell you, they constantly can't "remember" (for lack of a better word for intrinsically lacking the visual memory to recall specific spelling varieties of homonyms) and they are VERY self conscious about it. DH has an MS and an MBA and he still emails before he'll use the words: "loose/lose and shoot/shot" and I think there are a couple others. Over and over again and he cannot for the life of him figure out why he can't remember the difference.

 

 

Statistically?

 

 

 

1 in 5.

 

Current scientific statistics.

 

1 in FIVE

 

Now you know.

This is my DH. He has obviously very poor memory for how words should be spelled. He simply cannot make that picture that shows him. I am his secretary and I see words he misspells forever. "deposite." "finial inspection". There was a Chinese client for years whose name I never spelled correctly because I never saw his name written, only saw DH's interpretation of it. If he had not married a speller, he would be having a very hard time with all of his print and web communications.

 

THAT SAID: I do agree that if you are selling educational materials or a book, it really behooves you to know your weakness and hire somebody to meet that need for you.

[Guest]

I think there is an explanation for it, but I don't know it off the top of my head. It is a trademark symptom though.

 

Does it affect grammar? YES!

 

As a matter of fact it's one of the first ways you can be signalled you are looking a dyslexic pre-schooler. They misuse pronouns longer than they ought.

 

Later, the ability to use commas and periods can be significantly impaired if they lack prosody. Essentially it is the rhythm of language - do you know how, when you read a sentence, you can just tell where the comma should go - you essentially hear a natural pause? Kids who lack prosody don't hear that rhythm. Their reading aloud is often stilted as well too.

 

When DS was evaluated we had to turn in samples of his work and she asked for permission to use his paper as an example for her speaking engagements. Why?

He had written a wonderful analysis of Lord of the Rings, complex, thoughtful, great vocabulary. It was about two pages long if I remember. It had ONE period. One - at the very end of the paper.

 

;)

 

YES!!! Again -picking on DH. Sorry about it, honey. This seems normal to him:

 

"I don't think we should move mom into your houses now I could be wrong but she is not gonna want to that. Also the fence needs to be fix their at her house and I think you agreed am I right? Let me know if you think that is right to."

 

It's exactly that - he does not "hear" the rhythm of language.

[displace]

Expecting professional work to be edited and proofread in a professional manner is not anti-anything other than shoddy unprofessional work.

 

1 in 5 with dyslexia means 4 in 5 don't have it and 1 in 5 know they need to make sure someone else double checks their editing or in some other manner over compensate for their difficulty so they can deliver a quality product in a professional manner.

Not to quibble, but of the estimated 20% of dyslexics, we don't know how many of them are undiagnosed. It's thought to be a significant number but definitely not all 20% are aware of their disability. I would hope that all professionals would edit and spell check in our tech-based life, but someone with dyslexia may not know they should take extra special care because they may not know of their disability.

 

I feel for dyslexic authors, that's for sure!

[Guest]

This makes me wonder how many reading problems are made worse by the "word gap." If parents or childcare workers aren't talking to kids in certain groups very much, it seems reasonable to think those kids will be years behind in phonemic awareness, which would make reading problems worse.

There is potential for this to be a problem, but it is also not a guaranteed prevention to have a literature and word-rich household. I read to my kids in utero (for real!!!), and daily, multiple times a day from infancy, had words and letters everywhere, had music and foreign language tapes playing for every naptime and bedtime, continual modeling and saturation of language. One of my children is still dyslexic. The other is a language major. There is something in the brain.

[Murphy101]

Not to quibble, but of the estimated 20% of dyslexics, we don't know how many of them are undiagnosed. It's thought to be a significant number but definitely not all 20% are aware of their disability. I would hope that all professionals would edit and spell check in our tech-based life, but someone with dyslexia may not know they should take extra special care because they may not know of their disability.

 

I feel for dyslexic authors, that's for sure!

You don't have to know why you aren't good at something to know you aren't good at it and need to over compensate for it to deliver professional quality work.

 

Long before I knew I had dyscalcula, I knew math was not my strong suit, and I over compensated for it. I still had to figure out how to balance a checkbook and make a budget, handle register sales and so forth. If I could not have, no one would say, oh she must be a % of the population that have dyscalcula. No, they'd say I needed to find another job bc I wasn't reliably doing it right.

 

Most people will never know why they don't seem to be good at something. Because there isn't a dx for everything. But they know when they need to make sure the job is done right or seek another job.

 

I will say a lot of people seem to have a misbegotten notion that good writing doesn't need much, if any, editing. And so when a child or adult is struggling with editing their writing, they will erroneously think they suck at writing. But the truth is, the best writings usually had extensive editing. I think most bad writing isn't bad writing, it's bad or entire lack of editing.

[BlsdMama]

YES!!! Again -picking on DH. Sorry about it, honey. This seems normal to him:

 

"I don't think we should move mom into your houses now I could be wrong but she is not gonna want to that. Also the fence needs to be fix their at her house and I think you agreed am I right? Let me know if you think that is right to."

 

It's exactly that - he does not "hear" the rhythm of language.

AND I will guess your DH is in engineering, management, leadership roles, mechanically gifted, etc. We never knew might DH was dyslexic. Bright man, advanced degrees. I knew he hated to read (which, btw, does NOT trademark all dyslexics) read slower than usual, was uncomfortable with written language due to spelling, had an early elementary history of being in a low reading group placement, and had early speech issues.

 

On an aside - if one parent has dyslexia, generally speaking, fifty percent of kids will have it. It is a dominant trait.

[Amy in NH]

I don't mind lambasting a business for not proofing their own work, especially when they are working on a book. This is the point of having an editor, yes? AND in a professional arena, one should recognize shortcomings, such as a serious spelling deficiency.

 

I'm quoting you, plnsrme, but it's a general outcall on what generally devolves into: "Yeah, what the heck is wrong with people that they can't spell?" So when I use "you" in the next bit, it's not to the specific YOU but a general YOU as in - everyone who has a little superiority complex and doesn't know any better.

 

Only to help you so that you aren't ignorant of the fact - when you see someone mixing up "your" and "you're" and "there" and "their" I can almost guarantee you're seeing a dyslexic.

You have a neurotypical brain. This is no amazing feat of your own effort. It's the WAY YOU WERE BORN. But let's not glorify it and think it makes anyone special because you inadvertently picked up on the difference. Neither does it make me stupid because I am not intrinsically blessed with a neurotypical brain, great natural spelling power, but a complete lack of spatial reasoning. I will never be an engineer.

 

I was you once - though I was probably MORE full of myself about it, but now I know better. Now you do too.

 

"If I belittle those who I am called to serve,

talk of their weak points

in contrast perhaps with that I think of as my strong points;

if I adopt a superior attitude,

forgetting 'who has made thee to differ? and what hast though that thou hast not received?'

(then I know nothing of Calvary love.)

 

The point being - being born with a neurotypical brain is just that - nothing you achieved. I never learned a thing in spelling class. I already knew all the words before the first pre-test and yet, I always felt superior.

 

Did the others not try? Were the less bright? No. It's the biological difference between the two brain differences. And God, in His infinite sense of humor, chose to knock me down a peg or two by giving me at least six dyslexics so far. Now I know better, now I share the knowledge with you.

So if you know this is a weakness, then keep handy a cheatsheet/reminder/guide so you can look it up *every time*. Eventually you will "get it". How many, many years it took for me to get my right and left down - probably 30. But I didn't give up. Edited May 5, 2016 by Amy in NH

[Amy in NH]

Things like that really bug me, and would doubly bug me if it were a spelling curriculum that had words spelled wrong.

 

The one that really gets under my skin is a huge banner going down the stairwell wall at my kids Junior High, that celebrates Leonardo DaVinci as a great "philosopher, artist, and sciencetist." Ugh!

There was one in the cafeteria at our local junior high that read: "All the wordl's a stage." I pointed it out to the principal, and he had it taken down until he could get a corrected replacement.