Does 8th grade course work count towards high school GPA and credits?

[housemouse]

Of course this is given that the student is working with high school level text and getting good grades. If the student is taking high school biology, Algebra 1 and geometry, world history, literature and composition all using high school texts, can we count all of it toward their high school credits and GPA? How do colleges and universities look at it, especially if by the end of 12th grade, between dual enrollment, core classes and electives we end up with 30+ credits?

 

Thank you very much for any input.

[Arcadia]

Not for California state universities (UC & CSU). They count 10th and 11th grade results for GPA. For high school credit, they count math and language other than English (LOTE) from 7th grade.

 

This is going to vary by state.

[Reefgazer]

For Virginia, high school courses taken in 7th and above count for credit and towards GPA.

[FaithManor]

In Michigan, colleges only want to see what was accomplished in the last four years of high school. So say a student takes algebra 1 in 8th grade, the college would expect to see algebra 11 or geometry for 9th grade and no addition of the 8th grade work. Their assumption will naturally be that algebra 1 was completed in middle school. It is considered "padding the transcript" to put 8th grade work and extra-curricular activities on transcripts and applications. The only exceptions I've heard of is when a student wins a big, regional or national competition - like a science fair or the state spelling bee, etc. - in 8th grade, and then sometimes colleges do want to hear about that, but usually never academic work that took place prior to the last four years.

[SparklyUnicorn]

No clue.  I'd probably go ahead and do it though.  Especially if it is something like math.

 

 

[snowbeltmom]

In my opinion, the purpose of the transcript is to convey a student's educational history. 

 

I list high school level science, math, and foreign language classes taken in middle school on the high school transcript.  If the college admins want to ignore those classes taken in middle school, they can.  However, I want to make sure the adcoms know that my kids studied high school geometry, for example, and if I only list the last four years of math on the transcript, the adcoms would have no way of knowing whether geometry was studied or not.

[Penelope]

I tend to agree with what I have read here over the years and what I have heard conference speakers say (SWB for one), that you can include algebra 1 and above for math, high school level sciences, and foreign languages, but that's about it.

 

I think humanities subjects are much more subjective. We have used "high school level" texts and some higher level reading in eighth grade, but is my student truly giving high school level output? In my mind, not quite, because it's not only about the amount of work done IMO. In the same way, a voracious reader and gifted ninth grade writer in an honors English class is not going to have the same quality of class as a ninth grade student with lesser abilities, but they still are both going to count for high school and they will both be able to say they did four years of English. It's subjective and content can vary. Math and science are easier to quantify.

 

I might include junior high humanities that are high school level if I knew that strong students in my state routinely had these in their transcripts, and we were applying to a lot of in-state schools.

[catz]

I think as a homeschooler not graduating a kid under the umbrella of a cover or online charter or something like that where they will generate the transcript or have particular requirements, you can do your transcript however you want.  I'm holding some "credits" and grades over from my kid's 7th and 8th grade years.  They may end up dropping off.  They may be worth showing just for progression.  We'll see. 

[MinivanMom]

In my state, high school classes taken in middle school are listed on the transcript with a letter grade. The student receives credit for the class (meaning it counts toward credits needed to graduate), but the grade is not included in the gpa or used for calculating class rank. In practice, the only classes my district allows for credit are foreign language and math. 

 

I think it's always good to follow the practices common in your state. If your state lists certain middle school courses on the transcript, then you probably can too. If they don't list any middle school courses on the transcript, then it's going to look like padding if you do it as a homeschooler.

[FaithManor]

In my state, high school classes taken in middle school are listed on the transcript with a letter grade. The student receives credit for the class (meaning it counts toward credits needed to graduate), but the grade is not included in the gpa or used for calculating class rank. In practice, the only classes my district allows for credit are foreign language and math. 

 

I think it's always good to follow the practices common in your state. If your state lists certain middle school courses on the transcript, then you probably can too. If they don't list any middle school courses on the transcript, then it's going to look like padding if you do it as a homeschooler.

And if your student will attend college out of state, it is important to take a look at best practices in those locations as well so you can gear the transcript according to the customs of that state.

[BlsdMama]

IMO, if your kiddo is doing high school level work in 8th grade, and assuming a normal progress up in the next four years, why would you want to put 8th grade classes on the transcript?

 

I'll assume for argument you have a current 8th grader and let's say kiddo is taking Algebra I - a completely justified high school course.

 

Assuming this:

9th grade - Geometry

10th grade - Algebra 2

11th grade - Pre-Calc

12th grade Calc

 

why would you want to clutter up his transcript with Algebra I?  The college will already be able to see what he's accomplished and Algebra I is assumed at that point, so other than "fluffing" up his transcript (which actually is not to your benefit) it serves no real purpose, kwim?

[Arcadia]

IMO, if your kiddo is doing high school level work in 8th grade, and assuming a normal progress up in the next four years, why would you want to put 8th grade classes on the transcript?

UC has a compulsory geometry requirement which is why geometry taken in 7th or 8th grade is in local public school transcripts. The OP mentioned algebra 1 and geometry in 8th. Depending on the college her kid is applying to, she may or may not have to include those 8th grade classes.

[Corraleno]

PS transcripts frequently include Alg 1 and foreign language taken in middle school, but many colleges will disregard those anyway, and more selective schools often explicitly say they only want to see courses taken in the last 4 years. I think it would be extremely unusual for a public (or private) school student to have humanities classes taken in 7th or 8th grade on a HS transcript, because those courses simply wouldn't be available. 

 

IMHO, it would not be advantageous for a homeschooler to have practically a full load of "high school level" classes from middle school on a HS transcript — it would either look like the student spent 5 years in high school or the parent is trying to pad the transcript. And if the courses from middle school are actually replacing normal HS courses (e.g. US History listed in 8th grade but no US History class in high school), then I think it would look like the student was trying to avoid more rigorous work. And if the credits are not replacing other HS courses (e.g. US History in 8th and then APUSH in 11th; Biology in 7th and then Advanced Bio in 10th), then that really looks like padding.

I'm not including any 8th grade work on DS's transcript. It will be obvious from the sequence on the transcript that he completed Greek 1, Latin 1, and Algebra 1 before high school; he will still have 4 math courses and more than enough foreign language, and he will have plenty of credits without adding in courses done in 8th. He will mostly be applying to selective or highly selective colleges.

DD is not in HS yet, but the only reason I would consider including Alg 1 or the first year of a foreign language on her transcript would be if she would not otherwise have 4 math classes and at least 3 yrs of language. But she will also not be applying to very selective schools and will have a more average looking transcript than DS.

[Corraleno]

UC has a compulsory geometry requirement which is why geometry taken in 7th or 8th grade is in local public school transcripts. The OP mentioned algebra 1 and geometry in 8th. Depending on the college her kid is applying to, she may or may not have to include those 8th grade classes.

 

Some people put those on the transcript as "Courses completed prior to high school," without counting the credits towards graduation or including the grade in the GPA.

[foxbridgeacademy]

Some people put those on the transcript as "Courses completed prior to high school," without counting the credits towards graduation or including the grade in the GPA.

:iagree: that's what I would do, especially if you don't need to count the credits to fulfill College Entrance requirements. 

[Sebastian (a lady)]

And if your student will attend college out of state, it is important to take a look at best practices in those locations as well so you can gear the transcript according to the customs of that state.

 

With the Common App and the trend toward applying to diverse locations, this might not help much.  

 

My kids lived in three different states during high school.  DS applied to colleges in six different states (none of them the state he's currently living in).  

 

I got from admissions counselors the general feedback that they need enough information to put a student's educational experience into context.  Course descriptions, booklists, school profiles and recommendations help them do that.

 

I went the route of giving credit for math and foreign language done before 9th grade.  I figured that those subjects were more sequential and work done in 9th grade helped to verify the earlier work.

 

I gave a grade, high school credits and credit towards the gpa.  This was the practice in the state where we were when oldest started 9th grade.

[LisaKinVA]

 

IMHO, it would not be advantageous for a homeschooler to have practically a full load of "high school level" classes from middle school on a HS transcript — it would either look like the student spent 5 years in high school or the parent is trying to pad the transcript. And if the courses from middle school are actually replacing normal HS courses (e.g. US History listed in 8th grade but no US History class in high school), then I think it would look like the student was trying to avoid more rigorous work. And if the credits are not replacing other HS courses (e.g. US History in 8th and then APUSH in 11th; Biology in 7th and then Advanced Bio in 10th), then that really looks like padding.

 

 

While I can see the padding issue from the history standpoint, I don't agree with the science -- mostly because it is *very* common to see a standard or honors Bio/Chem/Physics course plus one or more of the AP's in those same subject.

 

I have accelerated students, and am always going back and forth with what to include or exclude from transcripts.

 

In general, I don't include English or History. I can't see any reason to.  But, my oldest three are all math and science kids.  It is not unusual for PonyGirl to take either two science courses or two math courses during the same year (her choice). IMO, that should be reflected on her transcript.  It shows who she is.  She's also taking a high-school level art course AT the high school, WITH the high school kids (same exact work), I feel like that should also be on her transcript and even though she won't have an official grade since it's considered an audit course, DD has asked for and will receive a letter from the instructor noting the work DD completed in the course and the level it was completed.

 

Prior to high school, DD will have completed Integrated Physics and Chem, Biology and Chemistry (we are still discussing whether this will be considered an honors or advanced Chem course, she took the AP exam, but probably won't get higher than a "3" -- however, she also feels very strongly that if she self-studies throughout the summer, completes the review and retakes the exam, she could get a 4 or a 5.  But, that will be her choice.) Math-wise, DD has completed Algebra 1, Algebra 2, Precaluculs, and AoPS's Intro/Intermediate Counting books and Number Theory. She'll still have 4 years of math.  Yes, to most people it should be obvious that a child taking Calculus in 9th grade would have everything else -- but sometimes it's not.

 

My oldest son has fewer courses to worry about (2 science, 2 math, and we aren't including his foreign language prior to high school, because he didn't complete 2 years of either...there is no point).

 

My younger son may wind up taking AP Environmental Science in 7th, and some high school level animation and computer programming courses (with instructor's approval), none of those would appear on his high school transcript -- but I strongly feel if he's taking the same course as a high schooler, it should be reflected on his transcript (again, it gives a sense of who he is in that snapshot) -- even if he winds up with his pre-college science program leaning more strongly toward Pre-Med vs. Physics/Engineering/CompSci.

 

Right now, I have a list of 43 schools for LEGOManiac, which won't get narrowed down more until next spring.  PonyGirl has a much shorter list, and is hyper focused on two schools (one of which isn't even that difficult to get into, but she would have greater opportunities to do what she wanted in college).  

 

In short, reading through all of the responses there is no one answer that can 100% be used across all schools or states.  I probably won't make our final decision about what to include on any of their transcripts until I have a solid list of schools and know their requirements (which means I could wind up making 3 different transcripts).  But, because I don't want to recreate information possibly 6 years after the fact, I'm keeping records, grades, course descriptions and course syllabi for courses I know to be high-school level as they occur (Math, Science, Foreign Language and, if applicable, other specific courses the kids enroll at the high school for prior to HS with instructor approval, or are clearly high school level courses --I'm thinking some specific CompSci things).

[SkateLeft]

Prior to high school, my oldest daughter had taken a considerable number of high school classes through a college talent search program in CA. Then she did full-time college dual enrollment in 11th and 12th grade, and I graduated her at 16 with 60 semester units of college classes.

 

Originally, I had those high school courses taken prior to high school on her transcript, but ended up dropping them off. She didn't need them, and I felt that putting them on there would look like I was padding her transcript. If a student is taking Algebra 2 in 9th grade, colleges will assume that they took Algebra 1.

 

I would not have included those courses in her high school GPA, even if I'd kept them on there.

 

For a student with a lot of units, I personally don't think it's necessary to include courses taken prior to high school. I would just keep the documentation, and make a decision when it comes time to graduate your student.

 

[Sebastian (a lady)]

IMO, if your kiddo is doing high school level work in 8th grade, and assuming a normal progress up in the next four years, why would you want to put 8th grade classes on the transcript?

 

I'll assume for argument you have a current 8th grader and let's say kiddo is taking Algebra I - a completely justified high school course.

 

Assuming this:

9th grade - Geometry

10th grade - Algebra 2

11th grade - Pre-Calc

12th grade Calc

 

why would you want to clutter up his transcript with Algebra I?  The college will already be able to see what he's accomplished and Algebra I is assumed at that point, so other than "fluffing" up his transcript (which actually is not to your benefit) it serves no real purpose, kwim?

 

In our case, I chose to be similar to the policy of the local schools where we started high school.  They put algebra 1 on the transcript and use it for gpa calculations.  Both of my older kids will finish high school with at least 6 math credits - algebra 1 from 8th grade and both Calculus and Statistics as dual enrolled CC students (each CC course is assigned 1 high school credit).

 

ETA:  My policy was that I would list foreign language and math courses done before 9th.  But that my kids would still do 4 years of study in math during 9-12 and that they would get at least 3 years of foreign language in (one has 3 of one language and 2 of another; the other kid has 4 of one language and 1 each of two others).  In my mind, the pre-9th grade courses listed complete the picture.

 

I can't control or predict how various colleges will deal with grades.  I've had some schools encourage me to weight grades for AP and CC courses because of their criteria for merit aid.  I had another school tell me that they really don't consider gpa at all, because there is too much variation throughout their region.  

 

I tried to be very clear about what I was doing.  I also tried to be consistent.  If I was granting credit for the Latin 1 class with an A, I also listed the German class with the B (as an example).  

Edited May 4, 2016 by Sebastian (a lady)

[Sebastian (a lady)]

Prior to high school, my oldest daughter had taken a considerable number of high school classes through a college talent search program in CA. Then she did full-time college dual enrollment in 11th and 12th grade, and I graduated her at 16 with 60 semester units of college classes.

 

Originally, I had those high school courses taken prior to high school on her transcript, but ended up dropping them off. She didn't need them, and I felt that putting them on there would look like I was padding her transcript. If a student is taking Algebra 2 in 9th grade, colleges will assume that they took Algebra 1.

 

I would not have included those courses in her high school GPA, even if I'd kept them on there.

 

For a student with a lot of units, I personally don't think it's necessary to include courses taken prior to high school. I would just keep the documentation, and make a decision when it comes time to graduate your student.

 

This is a situation where a school profile document or counselor recommendation might be useful.  You could choose to keep the transcript itself pretty clean, while noting in the supporting documentation that extensive high school level work was done prior to 9th grade.  

 

FWIW, I think that smaller schools and private schools have the capacity to spend more time on reading an application.  The larger state schools seem to not be able to or not want to spend the time.  It is the big state schools that seem to need it spelled out that a student did in fact take algebra 1 before algebra 2.

[MysteryJen]

You may count high school courses taken in 8th grade for the NCAA clearinghouse. You have to submit a core course worksheet and issue letter grades (and include them in GPA). For dd1, her high school courses taken in 8th grade were accepted. It was helpful because she took US history in 8th and it was required for a few schools.

 

I only noted the math and science ones that ds1 did in 8th. No grade or credit and I never had a problem with any school.

[Ellie]

Several people here, over the years, have mentioned that some colleges specified that all credits on the transcript must have been completed in the immediate four years preceding graduation--IOW, gr. 9-12.

[regentrude]

I have included Algebra 1 and Biology for DD, since some college specifically want to see these credits and she did not take another biology course later.

I have labeled the courses with a note "taken before 9th grade; not included in GPA or number of credits". That way they are on the record for anybody who needs to check a box, but I am not padding.

Edited May 5, 2016 by regentrude

[Apoov]

I know I am very late to this topic. My daughter stopped homeschooling to attend a art school from 8th-10th grade. When we received her transcript from them for her to start middle college, they included the foreign language and math that she took in 8th grade on her high school transcript. They did include her grade, but they did not include those in with the GPA.

Hope that helps others that will look at this post. Btw... we are in NC.

[cintinative]

Five year old thread resurrected by first time poster

[rzberrymom]

NM

Edited April 13, 2021 by rzberrymom

[SDMomof3]

Just now, rzberrymom said:

What about the summer before 10th and the summer after 11th—any idea whether those go into the GPA in CA? 

The summer before 10th is counted. The summer after 11th is not counted. 

[rzberrymom]

Just now, SDMomof3 said:

The summer before 10th is counted. The summer after 11th is not counted. 

Where do you guys find this stuff! The technicalities are going to kill me in this state! 😂 

[SDMomof3]

5 minutes ago, rzberrymom said:

Where do you guys find this stuff! The technicalities are going to kill me in this state! 😂 

I went through the college admissions process twice with my girls. 

[Arcadia]

57 minutes ago, SDMomof3 said:

The summer before 10th is counted. The summer after 11th is not counted. 

 

55 minutes ago, rzberrymom said:

Where do you guys find this stuff! The technicalities are going to kill me in this state! 😂 

Summer after 11th is counted for UC
“1. Convert your grades to grade points.

Convert the grades earned in all A-G courses completed between summer after 9th grade through summer after 11th grade to grade points: A=4 points, B=3 points, C=2 points, D=1 points. (Pluses and minuses don't count.)“

https://admission.universityofcalifornia.edu/admission-requirements/freshman-requirements/gpa-requirement.html

[SDMomof3]

1 minute ago, Arcadia said:

 

Summer after 11th is counted for UC
“1. Convert your grades to grade points.

Convert the grades earned in all A-G courses completed between summer after 9th grade through summer after 11th grade to grade points: A=4 points, B=3 points, C=2 points, D=1 points. (Pluses and minuses don't count.)“

https://admission.universityofcalifornia.edu/admission-requirements/freshman-requirements/gpa-requirement.html

Is this new, when dd applied, we were told that summer after 11th was considered 12th grade

[Arcadia]

1 hour ago, rzberrymom said:

Where do you guys find this stuff! The technicalities are going to kill me in this state! 😂 

CSU

https://www2.calstate.edu/apply/eligibility-index

“Your high school grade point average (GPA) is calculated on all "a-g" courses completed after ninth grade.

Here’s a simple way to calculate your high school GPA:

• Using the chart below, enter the count of each grade you earned in “a-g” courses completed after ninth grade. For example, if you earned four As so far in “a-g” courses taken after ninth grade, enter “4” in the box next to the “A.” Continue entering all grades earned in “a-g” coursework. Ignore a plus or minus in a grade; a B- should be entered as a B, for example.“

[Arcadia]

Just now, SDMomof3 said:

Is this new, when dd applied, we were told that summer after 11th was considered 12th grade

Nope. This was in place when my teens were in middle school and I checked.

[rzberrymom]

4 hours ago, Arcadia said:

 

Summer after 11th is counted for UC
“1. Convert your grades to grade points.

Convert the grades earned in all A-G courses completed between summer after 9th grade through summer after 11th grade to grade points: A=4 points, B=3 points, C=2 points, D=1 points. (Pluses and minuses don't count.)“

https://admission.universityofcalifornia.edu/admission-requirements/freshman-requirements/gpa-requirement.html

Thank you!! 

[NittanyJen]

On 5/2/2016 at 9:22 PM, housemouse said:

Of course this is given that the student is working with high school level text and getting good grades. If the student is taking high school biology, Algebra 1 and geometry, world history, literature and composition all using high school texts, can we count all of it toward their high school credits and GPA? How do colleges and universities look at it, especially if by the end of 12th grade, between dual enrollment, core classes and electives we end up with 30+ credits?

 

Thank you very much for any input.

We did not list any coursework prior to high school on the high school transcript, even though my boys did plenty of higher level work prior to high school. We felt highly confident that the high school transcript stood on its own merits, not requiring any "padding." If they take an AP course in high school, listing a "high school" course taken in middle school isn't all that impressive. If they take calculus as a freshman, it's not really necessary to list algebra 1-- pre-calc; that's kind of a given (we did list those as an asterisk note, just in case some AO had a thing for checklists).

My kids still ended up with a large number of credits, because they have both taken a number of university courses. It was all documented well, so there was no need to question it.

If you think it through and still think you want to list "high school" courses taken in middle school on a high school transcript, at least be transparent about what you are doing, and don't get cute and try to hide it by just listing by subject and failing to note when they were taken. Trying to be deceptive could get your kid thrown out of college if it is discovered later. Some colleges specify that courses taken prior to high school do not count, no matter what 'level' they were, so if your child is applying to any of them, you would have to either lie, or prepare separate transcripts for each case, which is not really easy to do using the Common App. Again there, the best course of action would be to be very transparent about what you are doing so nobody can claim you were pulling a fast one.

My oldest is the college student, and listing only bona fide high school courses (ie courses taken during high school) on his transcript did not hurt him at all. He was admitted to competitive colleges with entry to honors programs, world scholars programs, top merit scholarships, etc. So . . . it doesn't seem like it would have been necessary to do so. We plan to limit the younger one's transcript to only courses taken during high school as well-- simpler is better.

**I think an exception to this would be any course generating potential -college- credit, such as an AP course backed by an exam score, or an actual college course backed by a transcript from the college. In this case, the exam date or the transcript would make the timing of the course abundantly clear.

 

Edited April 23, 2021 by NittanyJen

[Lori D.]

Not a bad topic to resurrect -- BUT, just noting that the original post is 5 years old, the original poster hasn't been on the boards for almost a year, AND that 8th grader is a 1st year college student right now... 😉 

[Dmmetler]

I do have a couple of 8th grade classes on my senior's transcript, but it's because they were college classes that would be on the college transcript, and I wanted the two of them to match. My kid ended up with 44.25 high school credits and 68 college credits, and honestly, there was really no padding there except for a couple of minimal box checking credits required for high school grad.