Jump to content

Menu

Grammar and Writing help needed...


vaquitita
 Share

Recommended Posts

My son will be in 5th grade next year and I haven't covered grammar and writing at all yet. It's time. But I keep going in circles because I know nothing about grammar and writing. Lol. I have never diagrammed a sentence in my life! So far he's done copy work, oral narration, picture books on the different kinds of words (last year), and this year he has been writing some of his narrations (they are only a few sentences long).

 

I was planning to use ELTL, starting him in level 3 because we have done no formal grammar. But writing instruction starts in level 4, so I looked over the samples of that... And I don't know if I can understand or teach the grammar in that! Indirect objects, prepositional phrases... I'm so confused. It's making me wonder if I should go with a more straightforward workbook approach (even if he dislikes it)? I'm considering climbing to good English.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I'd never diagrammed anything either.  It simply wasn't taught in our school district.  Or farther afield!

 

We are using FLL 3.  (But then, in grade 3.)  It introduces all the parts of speech over again (they were introduced in 1 and 2) and introduces diagramming.  I have heard some people suggest that level 4 can also be a jumping-in point so maybe that would work?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I would not go with an independent workbook. I'd use something like First Language Lesson or Rod and Staff English, and take the time to learn the grammar with him.

 

FLL is completely parent led, but it's all scripted for you in the TM. Just use it as is. It will hold your hand and you can learn the basic parts of speech right along with him. He won't be able to pick up the student workbook and do what's next without you, so you'll have to work together on it.

 

R&S has a lesson for him to read on his own that you should read together, and/or use the scripted teacher presentation. Then have him do all the exercises orally, and put diagrams on a whiteboard. The TM will really hold your hand. It has a copy of the student page, extra notes, an optional oral quiz, a scripted presentation of the new concept, and a full answer key. After you're both used to the format and know what to expect you could have him start writing out his exercises if you wanted to, but personally I'd just do your first R&S book orally and not worry about written work until the next one. It's designed so the student can complete the lessons independently if needed, so if you really need him to do sections on his own he can.

 

Regardless where you go, you might read through Grammarland by Nesbit together this summer to get a head-start on the parts of speech. (You can get Kindle or hard copies on Amazon too.)

Edited by SilverMoon
  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Would ELTL work as well as FLL? Especially if I have to do it with him, 3x per week would be better. I guess I need to look at doing the grammar with him as teacher training for all the other kids. Time well invested.

 

We read grammar land together two years ago. And the free worksheets I found online. Though we only did the first 3/4? of them. The last couple were too hard. Lol

 

Maybe I could do ELTL 3 as I originally planned, and get the climbing to good English teachers manuals and use the writing instructions to help me use his other school work to work on his writing? I'm thinking science specifically. If he wrote about what we did in RSO instead of using the worksheets? His written history narrations cover narrative writing, so some more informative writing would be good to cover. And I could have him do a page here and there from CTGE if there was a specific writing lesson I thought would really help. CTGE is cheap enough, I don't mind using only parts/using it as a reference. He is a reluctant writer, so I don't want to overwhelm him.

 

I see my other option as doing ELTL 4, I would need to do it with him a lot more. And then I'd probably just use the RSO worksheets. I'd really like to do more note booking though, which makes me lean to the first option, but would I really follow through, since it wouldn't be all laid out for me?

Edited by vaquitita
Link to comment
Share on other sites

I knew very little about grammar when I started schooling my kids.  I put time into learning with(and ahead sometimes) with my 1st and now I can teach it informally and formally with no prep whatsoever.  Very true to think of this as an investment.  Everything you learn now pays off in the future when you teach your others!  

 

Edited to fix my grammar mistake:)

Edited by matermultorum
Link to comment
Share on other sites

I went and reread the placement info on ELTL. She says: I would personally choose Level 4 for a child who has had little to no formal grammar instruction (comparing to level 5). So if level 4 teaches grammar from the beginning, I think I'm going to just go for it for my then 5th grader. It will be a jump up in difficulty, but if I'm doing it with him I know he can do it. I WAS looking for independent, thus I had picked level 3, but I'm feeling like this is where I need to invest time with him. I don't want to, because the amount of time my next two kids are taking right now as they are both in the learning to read need mom for everything stage, but I think I need to. I have worked with my oldest every day using RLTL for spelling this year (that was this years focus), next year I plan to drop down to twice a week (which will be enough to complete the series by the end of the year), which means I can sit down and do ELTL 3x a week with him without actually adding more time to my schedule. It felt like adding one more thing when I'm already overwhelmed, but really it won't. Phew.

 

I'm still considering getting the climbing to good English teachers manuals, so I could use them for reference on how to teach different kinds of writing... Not sure if this is really a useful idea or not.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I'd get two books for your shelf: Grammarland and The First Whole Book Of Diagrams.  The first to acquaint yourself, the second to carry on diagramming further.  It's a very simple to use manual that is half examples, half blank space to try your own, and it takes baby steps building - starting from two word sentences to complex ones at the end.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Yes, I agree with using FLL 3. Don't worry about it being for "3rd graders" , because it is way more advanced than many 5th grade grammar books I have seen.

If you use level 3 this year, and level 4 next year, than he will have a great grasp of grammar to enter Jr high.

I combine FLL with Essentials in writing at my home. Essentials comes with a teacher dvd for the child to listen to, so it is really hands off for you. Sure, you will make sure he understands what to do, but for the most part, it walks your child through the writing process.

Edited by Peacefulisle
Link to comment
Share on other sites

I have been learning grammar along with my DC using ELTL.  A few lessons I had to re-read to fully understand.  I've also used the answer key many times to double-check.  I've learned so much and I think they are picking it up quicker than I am.  :blush:

 

Another idea:  There is a book called Our Mother Tongue.  It's very inexpensive and designed for older children (4th and up) and/or parents to use as a comprehensive grammar program.  You might be interested in going through this yourself or with your DC.  I think it was actually written to help homeschool moms with their grammar!  

Link to comment
Share on other sites

You could try Get Smart with English Grammar Revolution. http://www.english-grammar-revolution.com/   It's all about learning grammar through sentence diagramming.  If you buy the online/downloadable course, then it's all taught for you, and you can learn along with your children.  Look for it at homeschoolbuyersco-op, where you can get it cheaper.  Or, you can try EIW (Essentials in Writing), which teaches grammar and writing on DVD's.  Again, you don't have to teach it, it's all done on the DVD's so you can learn too!

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Several people have recommended FLL 3. While I like FLL/WWE, its more time consuming than ELTL and ELTL combines the two FLL/WWE which helps streamline things for me. How do the levels in FLL and ELTL compare? If I would use FLL 3, does that mean I need to start ELTL at level 3? Or is FLL more advanced? I'm guessing it is, since it only goes to level 4 and ELTL teaches new grammar in level 5?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

If you do FLL3 and ELTL, it would be overkill for the grammar. You might want something like Treasured Conversations with FLL instead, or just do ELTL. Neither is more advanced than the other, that I've found. We used (most of) FLL4 with Treasured Conversations, and are now using ELTL. FLL was too much grammar at our house. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

 Share

×
×
  • Create New...