Immigration & Public School question

[K&Rs Mom]

My dd is doing research for debate & asked me, if someone doesn't have a birth certificate how do they sign up for public schools?  I know they can and do go to school, but when I enrolled her even as a part-timer I had to bring in paperwork to prove age & residency.  How does this work if someone doesn't have the papers?

[SparklyUnicorn]

I'm sending you a PM.

 

 

[Stacia]

http://www.k12.wa.us/MigrantBilingual/pubdocs/May8th2014ColleagueLetter.pdf

 

http://www.k12.wa.us/MigrantBilingual/ImmigrantRights.aspx

[Daria]

In my experience most kids whose immigration status is undocumented still have birth certificates and parents who pay rent and thus can provide evidence of residency.

[maize]

I'm not sure about the answer to your question; most immigrant children do have a birth certificate, though; from their home country if they themselves immigrated (legally or not) and from the US if their parents immigrated before they were born. Proof of citizenship/immigration status is not required in order to attend school, neither is an American birth certificate.

 

Here's some information regarding public schools and immigrants: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Undocumented_students_in_the_United_States

 

ETA I attended public school in a foreign country without a local birth certificate :)

Edited April 25, 2016 by maize

[eternalsummer]

first google result:

http://www.k12.wa.us/MigrantBilingual/ImmigrantRights.aspx

 

edit: ack!  too slow

Edited April 25, 2016 by ananemone

[DawnM]

Students usually have some form of a birth certificate, and our school took anything they gave us, even if it didn't look "official."  Out of 5,400 students, around 1500 had actual social security numbers.  If they didn't have one, we assigned them a "school ID" that had the same amount of numbers as a social so that their ID number matched the number of characters needed in the computer.  However, they all started with the same 3 numbers......it might have been 999.  I can't recall at the moment.

 

Students with no birth certificate at all were given a pass and a form was filled out by parents to verify birthdate, nothing official required.

 

 

[Daria]

At our school, as I said, it was uncommon for an immigrant or first Gen kid to lack documentation of birth, and more common for an American parent to have mislaid it. But we accepted medical records in lieu. I am pretty sure that a kid with nothing could go to the free clinic and get paperwork that had a birthdate.

[maize]

https://www.justice.gov/sites/default/files/crt/legacy/2014/05/08/plylerfact.pdf

 

This document suggests a variety of documents may be acceptable to verify age (the purpose of the birth certificate) including religious documents such as a baptism certificate, an entry in a family Bible, or an affidavit from the parents.

Edited April 25, 2016 by maize

[DawnM]

At our school, as I said, it was uncommon for an immigrant or first Gen kid to lack documentation of birth, and more common for an American parent to have mislaid it. But we accepted medical records in lieu. I am pretty sure that a kid with nothing could go to the free clinic and get paperwork that had a birthdate.

How would the free clinic in the US have any record of a child not born in the US?  We had some students with no paperwork.

[Daria]

How would the free clinic in the US have any record of a child not born in the US?  We had some students with no paperwork.

 

My understanding is that the parent walks in, waits many hours, and then says "This is my kid, George.  He was born on X date.  He doesn't have any vaccines," and they do enough of a physical to ascertain that the birthdate is close and the kid is healthy enough for vaccines, and then gives them vaccines and a written "catch up" plan.  The document that they give the parents after the shots is enough to count as a "medical record".  

 

You need a record of either having all your vaccines, or participating in a catch up plan, or having an exemption plan, to come to school so you can kill two birds with one stone. 

[K&Rs Mom]

http://www.k12.wa.us/MigrantBilingual/pubdocs/May8th2014ColleagueLetter.pdf

 

http://www.k12.wa.us/MigrantBilingual/ImmigrantRights.aspx

 

Thanks, this is very helpful!  

It says the law (based on Supreme Court decision) is that schools may not "Make inquiries of students or parents that may expose their undocumented status."  It seems like any paperwork request "may expose" that status.  

 

 

I'm not sure about the answer to your question; most immigrant children do have a birth certificate, though; from their home country if they themselves immigrated (legally or not) and from the US if their parents immigrated before they were born. Proof of citizenship/immigration status is not required in order to attend school, neither is an American birth certificate.

 

Here's some information regarding public schools and immigrants: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Undocumented_students_in_the_United_States

 

ETA I attended public school in a foreign country without a local birth certificate :)

 

 

OK, it never occurred to us that they could show a foreign birth cert.  :huh:  That totally makes sense.  But it seems like it would then run into the same law as above - showing a non-US birth cert but not a valid visa would "expose their status."  Or do schools just not ask for the visa when they see any foreign birth certificate?

[maize]

Thanks, this is very helpful!

It says the law (based on Supreme Court decision) is that schools may not "Make inquiries of students or parents that may expose their undocumented status." It seems like any paperwork request "may expose" that status.

 

 

 

 

OK, it never occurred to us that they could show a foreign birth cert. :huh: That totally makes sense. But it seems like it would then run into the same law as above - showing a non-US birth cert but not a valid visa would "expose their status." Or do schools just not ask for the visa when they see any foreign birth certificate?

The school has no reason to ask for a visa, they are not tasked with determining immigration status, just with educating children.

Edited April 26, 2016 by maize

[Arcadia]

OK, it never occurred to us that they could show a foreign birth cert. :huh: That totally makes sense. But it seems like it would then run into the same law as above - showing a non-US birth cert but not a valid visa would "expose their status." Or do schools just not ask for the visa when they see any foreign birth certificate?

Birth certificate in English is good enough. If the birth certificate is not in English, they ask for a translation if possible with the birth cert. They don't ask if my child has a H4 or a green card. They don't ask if I have a H1. H4 or green card either because they need a parent ID. We can also just give the yellow California immunization card here. We also have a medical form for the pediatrician or family doctor to sign off for kindergarten registration.

 

SSNs are not required for school registration. I can't remember my own SSN or my kids' SSN and I had done registration for my kids three times, twice for their assigned school and once for public charter.

 

ETA;

I mean a form of parent ID is required but it can be DMV ID, passport or other photo ID. No one ask my immigration status.

Edited April 26, 2016 by Arcadia

[regentrude]

OK, it never occurred to us that they could show a foreign birth cert.  :huh:  That totally makes sense.  But it seems like it would then run into the same law as above - showing a non-US birth cert but not a valid visa would "expose their status."  Or do schools just not ask for the visa when they see any foreign birth certificate?

 

It's not as simple as "ask for the visa". The visa may be long expired, but the person may be in good legal standing because he has applied for immigration. During the lengthy lawful immigration process, applicants are issued numerous official forms verifying their immigration status. There are different forms at each stage in the lengthy process (ours lasted four years). Only an immigration official or an immigration lawyer have the specialized knowledge to understand the different forms and what exactly they mean for the immigration status; no school official would have the expertise to do so.

 

(Now, my personal opinion is that the school would also have no business asking about that, but that discussion would veer into politics which is not allowed here)

 

Edited April 25, 2016 by regentrude

[eternalsummer]

I just don't know why a school would ever want a visa for any student, in the US.  The law is that illegal immigrant children have the same right to public education as legal resident children, so why would the school care one way or another?

[MinivanMom]

All students (whether born on US soil, legal immigrants, or illegal immigrants) are asked to show a birth certificate when registering for school. During my years teaching, I saw many foreign birth certificates in student permanent files. No one asks for immigration papers, and most school personnel wouldn't have a clue how to interpret the various immigration documents anyhow.

[MinivanMom]

It's not as simple as "ask for the visa". The visa may be long expired, but the person may be in good legal standing because he has applied for immigration. During the lengthy lawful immigration process, applicants are issued numerous official forms verifying their immigration status. There are different forms at each stage in the lengthy process (ours lasted four years). Only an immigration official or an immigration lawyer have the specialized knowledge to understand the different forms and what exactly they mean for the immigration status; no school official would have the expertise to do so.

 

(Now, my personal opinion is that the school would also have no business asking about that, but that discussion would veer into politics which is not allowed here)

 

 

This.

[OlgaLA]

I recently helped friends who just moved to the US register their son for school in California. The language on the school district website was very interesting. The students without proper immigration status are not allowed to register. However, the district is not allowed to ask any confirmation of the legal immigration status of the student, only residence and age, which can be done with a foreign passport.

[Daria]

This is kind of interesting. I do find it ironic that as a citizen and resident of my assigned school zone, I had to provide my daughter's birth certificate and SS# at enrollment for public school. It wasn't presented as optional. Then every year I had to present proof of residency through a water bill or utility matching my or my husband's drivers license upon threat of removal from class. So how is it legal to really require anything?

SSN surprises me, but none of the other things have anything to do with immigration.

[regentrude]

This is kind of interesting. I do find it ironic that as a citizen and resident of my assigned school zone, I had to provide my daughter's birth certificate and SS# at enrollment for public school. It wasn't presented as optional. Then every year I had to present proof of residency through a water bill or utility matching my or my husband's drivers license upon threat of removal from class. So how is it legal to really require anything?

 

I understand that they ask you to provide proof that you reside in the school district. That makes sense - after all, public schools are funded to a major part by the property taxes of the people residing in the school district. Of course schools must legally be allowed to require this info.

Providing some verification of the child's age, for proper placement, makes sense too.

 

The SSN though? What would have happened had you declined?

 

Edited April 25, 2016 by regentrude

[Joker]

This is kind of interesting. I do find it ironic that as a citizen and resident of my assigned school zone, I had to provide my daughter's birth certificate and SS# at enrollment for public school. It wasn't presented as optional. Then every year I had to present proof of residency through a water bill or utility matching my or my husband's drivers license upon threat of removal from class. So how is it legal to really require anything?

I've never had to give SS#s to register dds in public school. We've gone through the process in two different states. I also don't remember having to give them my driver's license. This last time the DL would have still been from another state at time of enrollment. I do have to show a bill, mortgage, or lease agreement with our address and name along with a birth certificate and shot records.

[freesia]

My kids-well3 of them --have Canadian birth certificates (and counselor birth abroad certificates). When we had to show our school district their birth certificates, we showed the Csnadian ones with no question of immigration status. My understanding us that other countries do require you to show student visas, but I'm not sure as the only other countries school system I dealt with was Canada's and my child was a citizen.

ETA: we live in the US now.

Edited April 26, 2016 by freesia

[DawnM]

My understanding is that the parent walks in, waits many hours, and then says "This is my kid, George.  He was born on X date.  He doesn't have any vaccines," and they do enough of a physical to ascertain that the birthdate is close and the kid is healthy enough for vaccines, and then gives them vaccines and a written "catch up" plan.  The document that they give the parents after the shots is enough to count as a "medical record".  

 

You need a record of either having all your vaccines, or participating in a catch up plan, or having an exemption plan, to come to school so you can kill two birds with one stone. 

 

Gotcha.  Yeah, our school provided this if they didn't have it.

[DawnM]

I think it's pretty common to require a new student's SSN in Texas, tho they'll accept a state ID if the child has no SS card

 

 

Pretty sure TX would be like CA and not require either of those if they child didn't have it.

[Stacia]

Re: SSN.... I enrolled my dc in public high school starting in 9th grade. The school did not require SSN (& initially I did not give it), but they did explain that as the dc progressed through high school & if they planned to apply to colleges, that is how colleges & universities usually track students, so you need to have the SSN on file with the high school once they start applying & need transcripts, etc.... sent to the universities.

 

[zoobie]

Thanks, this is very helpful!

It says the law (based on Supreme Court decision) is that schools may not "Make inquiries of students or parents that may expose their undocumented status." It seems like any paperwork request "may expose" that status.

 

 

 

 

OK, it never occurred to us that they could show a foreign birth cert. :huh: That totally makes sense. But it seems like it would then run into the same law as above - showing a non-US birth cert but not a valid visa would "expose their status." Or do schools just not ask for the visa when they see any foreign birth certificate?

A foreign birth certificate only means the child was born outside of the US. It does not speak to his citizenship. If two US citizen parents have a child elsewhere, the (arguably) natural born citizen child would have a foreign birth certificate.

[maize]

A foreign birth certificate only means the child was born outside of the US. It does not speak to his citizenship. If two US citizen parents have a child elsewhere, the (arguably) natural born citizen child would have a foreign birth certificate.

Yes, I have siblings with foreign birth certificates. Has nothing to do with their citizenship status.

[maize]

With regard to SSN's, schools often ask for things that are not in fact required for a student to enroll.

[zoobie]

With regard to SSN's, schools often ask for things that are not in fact required for a student to enroll.

Such as extensive homeschooling records and test scores. ;)

[JennyD]

I just don't know why a school would ever want a visa for any student, in the US.  The law is that illegal immigrant children have the same right to public education as legal resident children, so why would the school care one way or another?

 

This is actually not quite the law -- the relevant Court decision (Plyer v. Doe) held that it was unconstitutional to completely deny undocumented minor children access to public education.  It might theoretically be legal to exclude undocumented minors from regular public school and only allow them to attend a program that, say, included only an hour a day of instruction, but this situation has never come before the Court, so we don't really know.  

 

Schools often want to see visas because certain visas require parents to pay if they want to enroll their children in American public schools.  

Edited April 26, 2016 by JennyD

[TechWife]

Re: SSN.... I enrolled my dc in public high school starting in 9th grade. The school did not require SSN (& initially I did not give it), but they did explain that as the dc progressed through high school & if they planned to apply to colleges, that is how colleges & universities usually track students, so you need to have the SSN on file with the high school once they start applying & need transcripts, etc.... sent to the universities.

 

Legally, the SSN cannot be used to track students just for the purposes of identification. The college my son applied to asked for the SSN, but he didn't fill it in. He filled it in on the FAFSA because it is required and in that case it makes sense that they would need it. It's up to the college to match the records (high school transcripts, FAFSA, etc.) and they can't require an SSN in order to do that.  They can require an SSN for a student who receives funds from the school for tax purposes and they can also require one for students who are employed through the school, just as any other employer can.

 

It is fiction that the high school needs his SSN. 

[Reefgazer]

This was exactly my experience when I registered my kids for school. Now that that I know better that I don't have to provide a ss#, I would flst out refuse and they would've had to take a water bill as evidence of residency

This is kind of interesting. I do find it ironic that as a citizen and resident of my assigned school zone, I had to provide my daughter's birth certificate and SS# at enrollment for public school. It wasn't presented as optional. Then every year I had to present proof of residency through a water bill or utility matching my or my husband's drivers license upon threat of removal from class. So how is it legal to really require anything?

[nd293]

ETA I attended public school in a foreign country without a local birth certificate :)

In Australia you would also be expected to show your residency status, though, and you wouldn't qualify for free public schooling without that.

[Alessandra]

The big thing in districts around us is proof of residence. Easy if actual parents rent or own and have a deed or lease. But many times families live with other family members or with friends and have no utility bills, etc. Then sworn affidavits will be required.

 

NJ has a lot of small districts close to each other. Every few years, everyone has to re-prove residence in order to prevent people from using fake addresses in good districts.

 

As far as I know, most districts are careful not to do anything that would make immigration status an issue.