Another reality check: early hs graduation followed by CC

[Greta]

You guys were such a help to me in that previous thread, that I'm back for more!   :)

 

My daughter is 16, in 10th grade this year, using Kolbe Academy, and also currently doing one dual enrollment course at the local community college, with plans to do more next year.

 

She’s currently on track to be able to finish the requirements for Kolbe’s magna cum laude diploma by the end of 11th grade.  And then she would do a full year at the CC before transferring to a 4-year university.

 

Whether or not we graduate her a year early, her life will be very similar for the next two years anyway:  some classes at home using Kolbe, and lots of classes at the local CC.  So the only issue I can think of regarding early hs graduation is that she’ll have to take the ACT/SAT earlier than she would otherwise.  That is an issue worth taking into account, because she is a VERY nervous test-taker, and she doesn’t do as well on tests as she does on general coursework.  So delaying might be helpful (might not?).  I talked this issue over with hubby this morning, and we will do whatever we can to help her prepare, whether that means taking some prep courses, getting her some sort of help for test anxiety, etc.

 

So, then the other issue is, what are the potential disadvantages of going to uni as a transfer rather than a freshman?  I gather that there are some scholarships that are available only to freshman students?  Honestly, as bright as my daughter is, I’m not sure she’d be scholarship material anyway.  Aren’t most scholarships based on ACT/SAT scores?  Since she’s not a super-stellar test taker, I just don’t see that happening.  I also realize that it’s unlikely that *all* of her credits would transfer.  We get free tuition at the CC, so this is not a loss financially.  Of course, there’s the loss of her time and effort, so that’s worth considering.

 

What other potential drawbacks am I missing?

 

Thanks in advance!

 

 

Oh, and a note for those who read my other thread:  I mentioned there that dd was hoping to avoid the ACT/SAT entirely by applying as a transfer student rather than a freshman.  But some counter-arguments to that were made, and when I brought the issue up with my husband this morning, he made the exact same counterarguments, which I agree are compelling.  So, I haven’t broken the news to dd yet, but she IS going to take either the ACT or SAT or both.  I think it will be better for her in the long-run to face down that fear. 

[teachermom2834]

We have a very cheap DE option (local Christian U...the state pays for some classes and over that limit the college only charges $100/credit hour). That same college is $15000/yr tuition plus fees for undergrad.

 

Our state schools offer the best scholarships for freshman students plus the extra year gives them a chance at a better score so better scholarship.

 

We also have a state scholarship program that cannot be accessed until student is 18 I believe.

 

For all those reasons we never got far on the early graduation discussion even though my first two boys could have and did all dual enrollment senior year.

[katilac]

In favor of NOT graduating early: 

 

*Better score on ACT - you generally do have to score pretty well for scholarships, but you can check this out easily enough at some of her target colleges. Some art and performance departments have their own scholarships, and some of them are based on a combination of talent and test scores (with good but not stellar test scores needed). Also, if she is a very poor test-taker, she may need the extra time/prep just to place into the correct classes. 

 

*Do you get a tuition break for DE? We get a really big one, so that would be in favor of another year of DE for us! 

 

*There are many programs and summer intensives for art students that are only for high schoolers. It would be a shame if your dd graduated a year early and then found one she's interested in. 

 

At our university, you can DE up to 11 hours per semester, so I would not be inclined to graduate a student early. I'm much prefer to have them take 3 DE classes instead of 4 or 5, and fill in at home. It keeps so many doors open. 

[Greta]

 

 

*Do you get a tuition break for DE? We get a really big one, so that would be in favor of another year of DE for us! 

 

 

 

I cannot believe I didn't think of this!  Tuition is FREE for DE, but won't be any more once she graduates.  Granted, the tuition is still incredibly cheap for us as residents, but cheap isn't free!!!  What a huge DUH moment.  Sheesh.

 

Thank you!   :blushing:

[Greta]

Our state schools offer the best scholarships for freshman students plus the extra year gives them a chance at a better score so better scholarship.

 

 

I have been looking into admission requirements at several schools that she'd be interested in, but I haven't looked into scholarship opportunities.  And that extra year before taking the ACT/SAT could really help toward that too.  Thank you!

[Guest2]

I think advantages are dependent on your state and schools she wants to attend. We did the early graduation thing and were able to take whatever courses my DD wanted with the professors/times she wanted. It sounds like this process is already smooth for your daughter?

If entering as a transfer student, some majors have no cap for enrollment and are relatively easy to transfer into without the SAT. At our state schools, regular transfer students can be DE as long as they meet the major's requirment (24 hour requirement in some cases), no ACT , or SAT needed, however not all majors accept transfers. If she is DE , she can decide later how she wants to be/ can be admitted to her major and choice school.

Edited April 24, 2016 by Silver Brook

[Greta]

I think advantages are dependent on your state and schools she wants to attend. We did the early graduation thing and were able to take whatever courses my DD wanted with the professors/times she wanted. It sounds like this process is already smooth for your daughter?

If entering as a transfer student, some majors have no cap for enrollment and are relatively easy to transfer into without the SAT. At our state schools, regular transfer students can be DE as long as they meet the major's requirment (24 hour requirement in some cases), no ACT , or SAT needed, however not all majors accept transfers. If she is DE , she can decide later how she wants to be/ can be admitted to her major and choice school.

 

 

Thank you, Silver Brook!  I think that I do need to do a more thorough job of looking into the particular schools she's interested in.  

[catz]

Pseo/de is free here so that is one advantage here for not graduating. Freshman scholarships are another, and not all require astronomically high scores. I kind of suspect not a bunch of de credits are going to transfer for my kid and I'm ok with that.

 

I was not a strong tester and wish I would have had the opportunity for a few go arounds with the ACT. My academic level was probably about 5 points off for for my one and only non-prepped ACT score. I think when you are a college bound home educated student it's just worth it to get comfortable with testing. It certainly comes up I college too.

 

Testing is a requirement in our state, but you can do an open ended oral test like the Peabody K-12 or WJ. We quit those relatively early in favor of talent search testing. My kids aren't natural testers. Heck - even some of their oral test results left me scratching my head some years. There have absolutely been years my kids didn't shine on these tests or did they reflect what we'd see day to day, but they have generally gained confidence and focus over the years. To this point we don't prep more than going through the format of the test. Anyway, I'd have a dry run for June and do the act fall and spring next year. And who knows? Maybe she will do great and won't need a repeat.

Edited April 24, 2016 by WoolySocks

[SparklyUnicorn]

I'm planning something like this for my older kid.  He wants to take the TASC (GED used in NY) at 16 and then enroll full time at a CC with good transfer/articulation agreements.  He is 14 now.  Nothing is set in stone, but he is pretty determined to do this.  NY has added annoyances for homeschoolers wanting to go to school at a NY uni/cc.  That's part of it.  The other part is he wants to get on with his life so starting college early is very appealing to him.  I think he could do it.  I can imagine a few cons. The biggest con is probably the uncertainty of what might turn out to be a con.  I don't like uncertainty, but I do think the pros outweigh the cons (I'm aware of).

 

Now maybe it's not as "romantic" to enter as a transfer, but I think the romantic parts aren't particularly appealing to him anyway. 

[Greta]

The other part is he wants to get on with his life so starting college early is very appealing to him.  

 

 

I think this is really the main reason my dd wants to do it.  She wants so much to just be done with high school and working towards her art degree.  

[MarkT]

I think this is really the main reason my dd wants to do it.  She wants so much to just be done with high school and working towards her art degree.  

In fact she would working towards her degree so convince her it's just paperwork.

[Greta]

In fact she would working towards her degree so convince her it's just paperwork.

 

 

Good point!

[BlsdMama]

DS is a junior in HS currently, going into a STEM field.  He is DE at our CC.  We are limited on amount of classes per law, *however* we still found useful ones to take.  Not all of his classes will transfer or be useful to his major, but Comp I, Comp II, Oral Communication, a year of foreign language, upper level math courses will all count.  

 

We strongly considered having him go the CC route after graduation next year. *However* when we look at potential merit aid - he could be potentially missing out on a lot of $$ coming into the U as a transfer vs. a freshman.  

We won't know until we apply and financial aid letters come, however, they were generous with DD as a homeschool student and I think his transcript is stronger.  

 

But, if it were us, strongly consider the potential change in scholarship $$ between incoming freshman and transfer student.

[G5052]

DS is a junior in HS currently, going into a STEM field.  He is DE at our CC.  We are limited on amount of classes per law, *however* we still found useful ones to take.  Not all of his classes will transfer or be useful to his major, but Comp I, Comp II, Oral Communication, a year of foreign language, upper level math courses will all count.  

 

We strongly considered having him go the CC route after graduation next year. *However* when we look at potential merit aid - he could be potentially missing out on a lot of $$ coming into the U as a transfer vs. a freshman.  

We won't know until we apply and financial aid letters come, however, they were generous with DD as a homeschool student and I think his transcript is stronger.  

 

But, if it were us, strongly consider the potential change in scholarship $$ between incoming freshman and transfer student.

 

Every situation is indeed different. My oldest applied to several selective state schools, but merit aid is minimal here. Just is. We live in a very academically-oriented state with top PSAT/SAT/ACT scores, and they just don't focus on the merit side of it. We don't qualify for need-based.

 

When we looked at the numbers and his preferences, it made much, much more sense to do the first two years at the CC. He actually got one of the top merit scholarships there (pays 1/2 tuition), and he loves the honors program and his small classes. Their scholarships are annual, and we're waiting to hear if he'll be renewed. He probably will.

 

If he keeps is GPA where it is, he'll qualify for small ($2000) institutional transfer merit scholarship. That's pretty close to the merit aid he got as a freshman, so we'll be very much ahead at that point. It's competitive to transfer into the program he wants, but we're on track. 

 

My younger one has of course watched all this with interest, and she likely will do the same thing. 

[elegantlion]

I did graduate ds a year early, mainly because dual-enrollment is not free and we qualify for need-based aid. If DE were free, he would have done that and applied for this fall instead. It has worked out and being on a college campus has fulfilled some of the "I need to move on with my life" thinking. 

[Mom22ns]

I cannot believe I didn't think of this!  Tuition is FREE for DE, but won't be any more once she graduates.  Granted, the tuition is still incredibly cheap for us as residents, but cheap isn't free!!!  What a huge DUH moment.  Sheesh.

 

Thank you!   :blushing:

 

Free makes a big difference.

 

However, if you dd is a poor tester, but an excellent student, she might actually come up with more scholarship money as a transfer. Dd had very meh ACT scores, but is Dean's list at the CC and in their honor's society. She qualifies for MUCH better scholarships as a transfer student than as a first time freshman. Unfortunately, even if we backdated her graduation, neither college she wants to attend will take her as a transfer. We asked.

[Greta]

Free makes a big difference.

 

However, if you dd is a poor tester, but an excellent student, she might actually come up with more scholarship money as a transfer. Dd had very meh ACT scores, but is Dean's list at the CC and in their honor's society. She qualifies for MUCH better scholarships as a transfer student than as a first time freshman. Unfortunately, even if we backdated her graduation, neither college she wants to attend will take her as a transfer. We asked.

 

 

Wow, is that common?  The colleges we've looked at have admissions requirements and applications for transfer students on their websites, so I assumed it was no big deal.  Am I assuming incorrectly?  

[Mom22ns]

Wow, is that common?  The colleges we've looked at have admissions requirements and applications for transfer students on their websites, so I assumed it was no big deal.  Am I assuming incorrectly?  

 

They required at least 24 credits of transfer credit that are not DE. I don't think it is all that common. I always hear how you can lose first time freshman status by just taking one class after graduation, but apparently it isn't that easy if you WANT to lose it. :lol:

 

Edited April 27, 2016 by Momto2Ns

[Greta]

They required at least 24 credits of transfer credit that are not DE. I don't think it is all that common. I always hear how you can lose first time freshman status by just taking one class after graduation, but apparently it isn't that easy if you WANT to lose it. :lol:

 

 

 

Why does it have to be so complicated???  I guess I'd better check with some of the colleges she's looking at about this too.  I never imagined that the DE credits wouldn't count!  Weird!

 

Thanks for your help!

[Carrie12345]

One thing I didn't realize is that a student can take the SAT after graduating high school.  I'm sure there are still pros and cons to that, but my son is excited to have learned this.  He enrolled as a freshman at CC almost 2 years ago, and is looking into finally taking the test before he'll be ready to transfer.

[Greta]

One thing I didn't realize is that a student can take the SAT after graduating high school.  I'm sure there are still pros and cons to that, but my son is excited to have learned this.  He enrolled as a freshman at CC almost 2 years ago, and is looking into finally taking the test before he'll be ready to transfer.

 

I did not know that!  Thanks, Carrie.

[GoodGrief]

Unless there is a particular life goal that requires a high school diploma, there are not too many situations where I have seen the value of early graduation. One thing to consider is that if your daughter continues to take dual enrollment classes, she can apply to colleges with an impressive set of rigorous courses on her high school transcript. And, yes, she will have time to prep for the SAT/ACT, which could result in a better score.

[amsunshine]

Have you figured out the type of aid your daughter will receive? I don't know what you are prepared to pay for your dd's college, but figuring out what she is eligible for via the FAFSA might impact your decision.

[Greta]

Have you figured out the type of aid your daughter will receive? I don't know what you are prepared to pay for your dd's college, but figuring out what she is eligible for via the FAFSA might impact your decision.

 

 

Well, I've used the calculator at the FAFSA website, and it says we won't qualify for any need-based grants or scholarships (that didn't surprise me) and it also gives me a pretty meager amount for loans, which surprises me, but I guess I don't know how that works.  IF we send her to a public university in a state where we have residency, AND IF my husband's income stays where it is, we'll be able to pay for everything ourselves without help.  But there are no public unis in our state that we want her to attend, so that kind of stinks.  And we've talked about relocating, but of course that kind of messes up this whole CC plan, and is probably an argument *against* early graduation (we can continue doing Kolbe regardless of what state we're in, but she can only attend CC for free here).  Long story, but there's also a chance hubby is going to be forced into early retirement in 2017, so who knows what will happen then.  We may have no choice but to relocate.  And our income may change dramatically, changing the amount of aid she would qualify for.  So this whole thing is a mess!

 

The more I think about this the more my head hurts!  :lol:

[MarkT]

Well, I've used the calculator at the FAFSA website, and it says we won't qualify for any need-based grants or scholarships (that didn't surprise me) and it also gives me a pretty meager amount for loans, which surprises me, but I guess I don't know how that works.  IF we send her to a public university in a state where we have residency, AND IF my husband's income stays where it is, we'll be able to pay for everything ourselves without help.  But there are no public unis in our state that we want her to attend, so that kind of stinks.  And we've talked about relocating, but of course that kind of messes up this whole CC plan, and is probably an argument *against* early graduation (we can continue doing Kolbe regardless of what state we're in, but she can only attend CC for free here).  Long story, but there's also a chance hubby is going to be forced into early retirement in 2017, so who knows what will happen then.  We may have no choice but to relocate.  And our income may change dramatically, changing the amount of aid she would qualify for.  So this whole thing is a mess!

 

Wow that's pretty sad - is your state that bad?

[Ravin]

Would she really have to take the SAT/ACT sooner? It is presumably not required for the CC.

[Janeway]

She won't qualify for most scholarships if she is not a freshman applicant. Also, if she does CC first, she probably won't need her SAT or ACT.

[Greta]

Wow that's pretty sad - is your state that bad?

 

 

Our issue isn't really with the university itself, but with the crime rate.  Of the two big state schools, one has a pretty decent program in the area of study she's interested in.  But it's also a pretty crime-ridden campus/neighborhood, and we're nervous about the thought of sending her there for reasons of personal safety.  

 

Other people who live here, though, would tell you that we're overreacting and being ridiculous.  I've noticed that people who grew up here always say, "oh, it's bad everywhere".  But when you have always lived in places that weren't bad and then you move here, it seems pretty shocking.  I guess it's all relative.  But we'd feel a lot better about sending her to a safer campus.

[Greta]

Would she really have to take the SAT/ACT sooner? It is presumably not required for the CC.

 

 

I was thinking they had to be taken *before* you graduate from high school, so that would necessitate taking them earlier if she graduates earlier.  But Carrie pointed out that you can still take the SAT after graduation.

 

The CC only requires you to take their own placement exam, so not needed for that. 

[amyx4]

Have you considered taking a campus tour of the unsafe university? Do you know a current student that might give you a better understanding of the risks?

[Greta]

Have you considered taking a campus tour of the unsafe university? Do you know a current student that might give you a better understanding of the risks?

 

 

Good suggestions!  We've never done a formal tour, but we have attended events and performances there (it's here in the city where we live).  

 

This state as a whole is the second most violent in the nation, and our city (which is where the campus is) has a rate of violent crime that is almost twice the national average.  So, I know my history of living in safer places colors my perception, but I also know that isn't *just* a matter of my perception.  I have talked to a couple of students, and they did nothing to allay my fears!  :(