ELTL: Do you use it at grade level?

[hands-on-mama]

Hi! 

 

I'm on the fence of which level to use for my up and coming 3rd grader next year. She is currently doing level 2 and is about 1/3 of the way through. We didn't find it until January this year. We absolutely love it. I am tempted to bump her up to level 3 at the start of our new school year though. If I bumped her up, I could use the dictation and writing in that guide to cover spelling and writing. She is a natural speller and I have really been on the fence of what to do with her. My other thought is to continue level 2 and add in Spelling Power and Writing & Rhetoric Fable along with it. She is also a very strong reader, so we shouldn't have any issues with the material.

 

 

Thoughts on this? 

 

I already own both level 2 and level 3. My 1st grader will also start level 1 this year. 

[mama25angels]

I think it could be done as even in level 3, the program is still very gentle.

[Guest]

I do it a level behind. The author also advises that as well. I see no reason to rush as grammar is rather abstract. I would rather my dd hit those ideas later rather than earlier.

 

 

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[Holly]

My impression was that CM homeschoolers use ELTL a year behind and classical HSers often us it at grade level.  We are moving from CM methods to classical methods (Latin-centered), so I have no idea where that places us.   :lol:   In addition my soon-to-be 1st grader has a fall b-day, so I can't decide where to place her!  My older DC are currently using it a year behind. 

 

The poetry, fables/stories, literature selections, and picture studies really don't change much at all from level to level. Level 4 really steps up the grammar and adds in written narrations, so those should probably be your main concerns with placement.  Levels 4 & 5 are very similar, so 5 would be pretty much review and solidifying their skills if they struggled with 4.  Level 3 continues with having them copy their oral narrations (that you've written down).  It has a sort of fill-in-the-blanks sentence diagramming, so that wouldn't be a big issue next year.   I'd be more concerned with if she'd be ready for Level 4 in 2 years.  I guess that mostly depends on your thoughts on formal grammar, which as I mentioned before, can vary between homeschool methods.

[hands-on-mama]

I guess I need to look at the samples of Level 4 to get an idea of what I think. I'm almost 50/50 CM and classical. What a place to be!  :laugh: I love her program though. I want a little more formal writing instruction or maybe just have her writing more than she has this year. I know that in level 3, she will do a written narration every 2 weeks (which I kind of like). 

[Holly]

I definitely love the writing lessons!  They've been the most successful ones for my writing-phobic DD.  I only wish there were more writing lessons!  The CM materials we'd previously used had no coaching for struggling writers, so I really didn't know how to help her until we tried ELTL.  It suddenly clicked for both of us.   Being CM homeschoolers, I hadn't heard of Progymnasmata writing before ELTL.  I'm very glad we discovered it.  Next year my oldest will be using Writing With Skill 1, which has lots of outlining and narrations.  My younger ones (4th & 6th) will be using Memoria Press' Classical Composition.  As much as I love CM methods, I've been really disappointed in the CM materials out there, especially with regards to writing!  It wasn't such a big deal until we got to the logic stage.  

[hands-on-mama]

I definitely love the writing lessons!  They've been the most successful ones for my writing-phobic DD.  I only wish there were more writing lessons!  The CM materials we'd previously used had no coaching for struggling writers, so I really didn't know how to help her until we tried ELTL.  It suddenly clicked for both of us.   Being CM homeschoolers, I hadn't heard of Progymnasmata writing before ELTL.  I'm very glad we discovered it.  Next year my oldest will be using Writing With Skill 1, which has lots of outlining and narrations.  My younger ones (4th & 6th) will be using Memoria Press' Classical Composition.  As much as I love CM methods, I've been really disappointed in the CM materials out there, especially with regards to writing!  It wasn't such a big deal until we got to the logic stage.  

 

 

So are you saying that you have found the writing in ELTL to not be enough long term? I have been concerned with that. That's one reason I have thought of using Writing & Rhetoric alongside it.

[Holly]

I think if you are doing written narrations for other subjects, it'd be plenty for this age.  My oldest is extremely writing-phobic.  Being a natural writer, I really didn't get why she couldn't write a basic paragraph.   The typical CM advice is to just keep narrating and eventually they'll get it, which really didn't help us at all.  :001_rolleyes:  ELTL's writing lessons were much more specific and actually taught her how to do a narration.   Finally, the written narrations have started to "click" with her!   ELTL would probably be plenty for my younger two, who are much better at narrations.  However, I really like the idea of teaching them using the Progym, so that's the main reason we'll be adding a separate program for 4th and up.  

 

I do often wonder if her writing phobia came from using only CM methods.  At age 6, she made tons of little story books with both drawings and words.  After switching from unit studies to CM methods, most of her time was spent on copywork, oral narrations, and eventually dictation.  When I finally tried to add in some more formal writing, she had no clue what to do.  Just getting a simple sentence from her was a disaster.  In an attempt to avoid this with my younger DC, I've made notebooking a bigger priority, and we are leaning quite a bit more towards classical methods.  I have no doubt that CM methods can be successful for many families, but somehow they just haven't worked well for us.  

 

Edited April 24, 2016 by Holly

[boscopup]

I'm using it both ways. My oldest just started level 5 at the end of 6th grade, as that's the highest level out. It's actually a good fit for him, writing wise. He'll likely start level 6 about halfway through grade 7. I'm cool with that. He's an excellent reader, but writing is not his favorite.

 

My middle son is doing level 3 at the end of 3rd grade. That's been a good fit for him, as his reading ability is finally at grade level now, but he's struggling with writing still. Level 3 includes copywork, dictation, and oral narration that is dictated back to the student to write. It says it's ok to work up to worrying the narration (by dictation) by the end of the year. He's been able to handle the dictation given so far. The copywork has been a tad long for him, but doable. We just had our first oral narration that gets dictated back on Friday, and I had him write one sentence. His oral narration skills are very good. He had just finished up CLE 308 before starting, so the grammar he knows so far, but that's ok. I think level 4 would have been too much for him.

 

My youngest son will be 7 next month and is nearing the end of first grade. I started him at level 2. He technically could have done level 3, as he's quite precocious in all aspects of language arts, including writing and spelling. He's a natural speller, so I don't plan to use a separate spelling program with him. The dictation in ELTL will be enough. I'm actually letting the dictation in ELTL be our spelling for all three kids. My oldest is doing the spelling journal. Middle is not doing a journal yet, but we do analyze the words. If I find later that he needs a spelling program, we can do one, but I don't think it will be necessary. Anyway, younger son finds ELTL easy, but that's ok. He's a little guy. ;)

 

I agree with looking ahead at levels 4 and 5 when making your decision. From your OP, I think you could really go either way and be fine. :)

[Coco_Clark]

My kids use level 1 as soon as they are ready for the cooywork (aka can form all their letters, and read the cooywork sentences).

 

So in K they do about 1/3 or 2/3 (depending on the kid) of Level 1.

 

In 1st they finish 1 and start the first bit of 2.

 

And in 2nd they finish up level 2. Which has ended up nice for us as the last part of level 2 gets pretty thick on the grammar and we like to slow down.

 

I'm hoping to do all of Level 3 in 3rd but Next year is my first in that book and we will see.