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Kinsa

I'm so heartbroken, and angry

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Karen, I'm so relieved that the situation is better at least.  The younger has 5 more years at home to heal and hopefully the weekends there won't be too bad.  Sixteen is a hard age to make hard decisions...I hope that she is closer to 17, so that the lesson doesn't have to last very much longer.  I pray that their dad loses interest in the 13yo altogether!

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5 hours ago, Kinsa said:

 

I don't understand exactly what happened, but here's what I do know.  They never went into the court room.  Everything was done through meetings and behind closed doors.  The lawyers met together, the judge met with the kids, etc.  So the MOUNTAIN of evidence my sister had against him never got to be shown. The criminal "contempt of court" charges she had against him (when he directly violated the court order of not changing the kids' schools, and the alienation charges) just - POOF - disappeared.  (And yet AGAIN he got away with his shenanigans.  Over and over again he does whatever the heck he wants, and he gets away with it.  Just ONCE I would love to see him held accountable.  Just once.)  Child support basically disappears since he has one child and she has one child.

 

 

The reckoning for parents like this does not come through the family court system. The reckoning comes in their long-term relationship with their adult children. 

It's wonderful that the 13-yr-old is back home with her mom. And, in my own personal experience, splitting the children with no child support is an ideal situation with an abusive, manipulative ex. It know it sounds counter-intuitive, but the even split with no support means there is less to negotiate, less to argue about, and less opportunity for the ex to feel he was wronged & continue to cause trouble. It means your sister could potentially have some peace. Hopefully, the 16-yr-old won't be treated too badly if she is dad's favorite. 

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I hope your sister gets a chance to exhale a bit and rest.  What a ringer she's been put through with the kids.  

In 5 years, I'm betting he has next to zero relationship with any of the kids.  

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7 hours ago, Suzanne in ABQ said:

So in two years, when older sister hits 18, will he have to pay child support to your sister?

That was my first thought, too.  Not because of the money, but because I fear he will restart the legal battles when he is faced with paying again.  I've seen it before so it's probably something she should plan for.

Karen, how is the younger doing now that she is home?  And how is your sister doing in the aftermath?

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On 4/27/2018 at 10:21 PM, Suzanne in ABQ said:

So in two years, when older sister hits 18, will he have to pay child support to your sister?

 

Technically,  yes,  he would have to. But two things: one, you can't squeeze blood from a turnip,  and two, my sister isn't even going to bother asking him for it. She wants released from him completely. And frankly,  I would do the same thing if I were in her shoes. 

UPDATE from my sister this morning:

Yesterday was the best day I have had in a VERY long time, didn't do anything spectacular (plant sale, yard sales, out for dinner/drinks with my sister and her husband) **BUT**.....there was NO STRESS OF LITIGATION pending.  That is the first time in almost a DECADE I can say that.  It's going to take a while to sink in, but I feel like a load has been lifted off my shoulders and lighter (figuratively, although I wish it was literally) than I have in years, YEARS!  Cautiously optimistic that I have seen the inside of JDR court for the LAST TIME.

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5 hours ago, Kinsa said:

 

Technically,  yes,  he would have to. But two things: one, you can't squeeze blood from a turnip,  and two, my sister isn't even going to bother asking him for it. She wants released from him completely. And frankly,  I would do the same thing if I were in her shoes. 

UPDATE from my sister this morning:

Yesterday was the best day I have had in a VERY long time, didn't do anything spectacular (plant sale, yard sales, out for dinner/drinks with my sister and her husband) **BUT**.....there was NO STRESS OF LITIGATION pending.  That is the first time in almost a DECADE I can say that.  It's going to take a while to sink in, but I feel like a load has been lifted off my shoulders and lighter (figuratively, although I wish it was literally) than I have in years, YEARS!  Cautiously optimistic that I have seen the inside of JDR court for the LAST TIME.

That update is so touching.  She probably feels like she’s been through a war :(

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12 hours ago, Kinsa said:

 

Technically,  yes,  he would have to. But two things: one, you can't squeeze blood from a turnip,  and two, my sister isn't even going to bother asking him for it. She wants released from him completely. And frankly,  I would do the same thing if I were in her shoes. 

UPDATE from my sister this morning:

Yesterday was the best day I have had in a VERY long time, didn't do anything spectacular (plant sale, yard sales, out for dinner/drinks with my sister and her husband) **BUT**.....there was NO STRESS OF LITIGATION pending.  That is the first time in almost a DECADE I can say that.  It's going to take a while to sink in, but I feel like a load has been lifted off my shoulders and lighter (figuratively, although I wish it was literally) than I have in years, YEARS!  Cautiously optimistic that I have seen the inside of JDR court for the LAST TIME.

 

Such a relief!  I'm so glad to hear that she's finally able to breathe freely.

 

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I swore I wasn't going to resurrect this thread again,  but this is just too unbelievable...

Last week,  the jerk reported my sister to CPS for failure to take dd to her therapy session.  Which is a lie. She didn't take her ONE time because of a schedule conflict and it was rescheduled for next week. But whatever.  Now my sister is under investigation. 

But the real wingdinger is that she received a letter from his lawyer claiming she never paid him child support for the two years that he had the kids. Again,  total lie. She paid faithfully and has the canceled checks to prove it. He is claiming those were "gifts" and not child support and that she owes him $18,000+.

It's so obviously not going to fly,  but it's yet more legal fees. She's already nearly $50,000 in debt to lawyers from defending herself against this a-hole and his constant barrage of unfounded claims over the past ten years. He just never stops.

 

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He is claiming she gave him monthly gift that just happened to a match exactly the amount of child support she was supposed to give but it isn’t child support?

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59 minutes ago, Ktgrok said:

He is claiming she gave him monthly gift that just happened to a match exactly the amount of child support she was supposed to give but it isn’t child support?

 

Yes.

I know.  It's hard to believe the dumb-assery.

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Why on earth is he so hellbent in dragging this out, himself?  It has to cost him too, right?  Is he really such a vindictive, petty, bleeping bleep that he doesn’t care about the outcome so long as he can hurt her just a little more?

 

I fear I’ve answered my own question.  This is just sick and I hope she find an opening to countersue the pants off of him. It’s insanity that such nonsense levels of legal harassment isn’t criminal is a crime, itself.

 

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I LIKED Arctic Mama's post not to like it but to agree with the hope that this harassment through the legal system can and will be stopped.  

 

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I have been following this thread for a while and was so sad to see this update. I hope your sister's attorney explores the possibility of penalties for him dragging her back to court for no reason. 

 

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13 minutes ago, Arctic Mama said:

Why on earth is he so hellbent in dragging this out, himself?  It has to cost him too, right?  Is he really such a vindictive, petty, bleeping bleep that he doesn’t care about the outcome so long as he can hurt her just a little more?

 

I fear I’ve answered my own question.  This is just sick and I hope she find an opening to countersue the pants off of him.  That such nonsense levels of legal harassment isn’t criminal is a crime, itself.

 

I'm amazed at the lawyer that will allow this to happen also. I know he's getting paid, but isn't there a point where even he thinks it's enough?

Kelly

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5 minutes ago, SquirrellyMama said:

I'm amazed at the lawyer that will allow this to happen also. I know he's getting paid, but isn't there a point where even he thinks it's enough?

Kelly

 

I forgot to mention... he's gotten yet another new lawyer.  The... seventh?... eighth...? one since the divorce ten years ago.  He bamboozles each new lawyer with falsehoods. Once the lawyer catches on and advises against whatever it is he's trying to do,  he fires him/her and moves on to another lawyer that he can snooker. 

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One of these years, people will stop asking why women don't leave and start asking why they can't.

With some, you can hand over your children and all your money, and that still wouldn't be enough to satisfy them.

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2 minutes ago, Rosie_0801 said:

 

One of these years, people will stop asking why women don't leave and start asking why they can't.

With some, you can hand over your children and all your money, and that still wouldn't be enough to satisfy them.

 

My mom left her first husband, and got custody of the kids. He kidnapped them with his 2nd wife, and she didn't see them again until they were 21 and 19. I was 7 when I learned I had 2 sisters.

That story definitely made me wary of ever wanting leave my marriage. 

Kelly

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? What a piece of work this guy is. And what a legal system (loopholes abound!) that allows him to continue to manipulate it like he is doing!!!!

I am so sorry. My parents once had a neighbor who was SUCH a nightmare that it was almost comical. He was SO nice for the first few months, then BAM! Like, we wouldn't have believed a person/neighbor like him could exist except in some work of fiction... and yet, there he was! In real life! Being the most bizarrely awful human being imaginable! He would do obviously illegal things right in his front yard - and yet call the cops on my parents for imaginary events just to harass them! He was a fireman and the cops he called were his friends. The nightmare of it all!! {{shiver}}  My parents wound up selling their newly-built home and moving just to get away from that jacka$$. (Luckily, they didn't share children with the guy, so, while moving was a major PITA, it was do-able to get away!!!)

Anyway - I think that guy and your ex-BIL are related. I didn't think two of those guys could exist... and yet... ?

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13 minutes ago, Kinsa said:

 

I forgot to mention... he's gotten yet another new lawyer.  The... seventh?... eighth...? one since the divorce ten years ago.  He bamboozles each new lawyer with falsehoods. Once the lawyer catches on and advises against whatever it is he's trying to do,  he fires him/her and moves on to another lawyer that he can snooker. 

 This guy is a piece of work. I'm so sorry. 

Kelly

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2 hours ago, Kinsa said:

I swore I wasn't going to resurrect this thread again,  but this is just too unbelievable...

Last week,  the jerk reported my sister to CPS for failure to take dd to her therapy session.  Which is a lie. She didn't take her ONE time because of a schedule conflict and it was rescheduled for next week. But whatever.  Now my sister is under investigation. 

But the real wingdinger is that she received a letter from his lawyer claiming she never paid him child support for the two years that he had the kids. Again,  total lie. She paid faithfully and has the canceled checks to prove it. He is claiming those were "gifts" and not child support and that she owes him $18,000+.

It's so obviously not going to fly,  but it's yet more legal fees. She's already nearly $50,000 in debt to lawyers from defending herself against this a-hole and his constant barrage of unfounded claims over the past ten years. He just never stops.

 

 

 

It is so hard to understand why a person can not counter sue to get the other party to pay for unfounded claims.  I know it's not how are system works, and there are real reasons that could be bad but really, it's just so wrong that he can keep doing this. 

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3 minutes ago, Kim in Appalachia said:

 

 

It is so hard to understand why a person can not counter sue to get the other party to pay for unfounded claims.  I know it's not how are system works, and there are real reasons that could be bad but really, it's just so wrong that he can keep doing this. 

 

There was a case in recent years that did that.  The woman was able to not only get a settlement but also CPS had enough of dealing with the ex and had it so if he made another false claim, they were pressing charges. 

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Just now, Roadrunner said:

I would call press and tell my story to anybody who listens. Unbelievable.

You probably wouldn't because it is probably illegal to do so.

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5 minutes ago, Rosie_0801 said:

You probably wouldn't because it is probably illegal to do so.

 

Unless there is a specific gag order due to one of the parents being a public figure, it is unlikely to be illegal to talk to the press in the United States. With freedom of speech and freedom of the press it's generally public information. This is why tabloids can see all the juicy details of celebrity divorces - everything filed is public unless someone can demonstrate there is harm to the children by keeping it public.  Generally there is only harm done when one of the children has already been identified as a victim of child abuse at the hands of one of the adults involved.

That said, it's probably not a good idea either, for the sake of the kids.

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I am just completely dumbfounded.....I cannot believe what this jerk is doing. I am so sorry your sister is being bullied, harassed, etc., yet again. 

I am so so sorry. 

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Your sister needs to talk to her attorney to see if she can file a motion to classify him as a vexatious litigant, especially with his latest stunt that she can prove she has paid her child support with the cancelled checks and she needs to ask for all attorney fees for the motion to be paid by him.

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12 minutes ago, TeenagerMom said:

Your sister needs to talk to her attorney to see if she can file a motion to classify him as a vexatious litigant, especially with his latest stunt that she can prove she has paid her child support with the cancelled checks and she needs to ask for all attorney fees for the motion to be paid by him.

 

Truly. This is such obvious harassment. 

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On 6/29/2018 at 7:54 PM, TeenagerMom said:

Your sister needs to talk to her attorney to see if she can file a motion to classify him as a vexatious litigant, especially with his latest stunt that she can prove she has paid her child support with the cancelled checks and she needs to ask for all attorney fees for the motion to be paid by him.

This

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Always, always, always write "child support" on the memo line of a check. If not, it CAN actually be viewed by the court as a gift. Seriously. 

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1 hour ago, hippiemamato3 said:

Always, always, always write "child support" on the memo line of a check. If not, it CAN actually be viewed by the court as a gift. Seriously. 

 

She did.  Each and every check. 

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10 minutes ago, Kinsa said:

 

She did.  Each and every check. 

Perfect. She should be able to get him to pay her lawyer's fees for this one. It's ridiculous and I'm so sorry she's going through this. 

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2 hours ago, Kinsa said:

 

She did.  Each and every check. 

I'm no legal expert, but can't she just call up the new lawyer her ex hired and say, simply, "I have the canceled checks showing that I paid child support, with child support written in the memo. You might want to discuss this with your client before proceeding." Or I guess she needs to have her lawyer do it, but I know that will cost more money. But it seems that if his lawyer got a phone call explaining this he'd drop it rather than get caught bringing a frivolous case to court?

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12 minutes ago, Ktgrok said:

I'm no legal expert, but can't she just call up the new lawyer her ex hired and say, simply, "I have the canceled checks showing that I paid child support, with child support written in the memo. You might want to discuss this with your client before proceeding." Or I guess she needs to have her lawyer do it, but I know that will cost more money. But it seems that if his lawyer got a phone call explaining this he'd drop it rather than get caught bringing a frivolous case to court?

 

Probably not....simply because his attorney will make more money taking it to court.  There are unfortunately a lot of attorneys out there who will gladly file whatever their clients want because it racks up the billing hours. I have a friend going through a nasty divorce right now who's ex's attorney is pulling the same crap and giving him horrible advice.....so even though it's costing her a fortune to defend all of his stupidness, she will come out looking better in court.

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Really sorry about this new turn of events.  And what a monumental waste of time misuing child protection people in this way as if there aren't real cases of abuse and neglect that need attention!

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On 6/29/2018 at 4:40 PM, Rosie_0801 said:

You probably wouldn't because it is probably illegal to do so.

And also because this scorched earth approach is not unheard of in family court.

so sorry. 

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9 hours ago, TeenagerMom said:

 

Probably not....simply because his attorney will make more money taking it to court.  There are unfortunately a lot of attorneys out there who will gladly file whatever their clients want because it racks up the billing hours. I have a friend going through a nasty divorce right now who's ex's attorney is pulling the same crap and giving him horrible advice.....so even though it's costing her a fortune to defend all of his stupidness, she will come out looking better in court.

 

Hopefully.

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On 6/29/2018 at 10:57 AM, Kinsa said:

I swore I wasn't going to resurrect this thread again,  but this is just too unbelievable...

Last week,  the jerk reported my sister to CPS for failure to take dd to her therapy session.  Which is a lie. She didn't take her ONE time because of a schedule conflict and it was rescheduled for next week. But whatever.  Now my sister is under investigation. 

But the real wingdinger is that she received a letter from his lawyer claiming she never paid him child support for the two years that he had the kids. Again,  total lie. She paid faithfully and has the canceled checks to prove it. He is claiming those were "gifts" and not child support and that she owes him $18,000+.

It's so obviously not going to fly,  but it's yet more legal fees. She's already nearly $50,000 in debt to lawyers from defending herself against this a-hole and his constant barrage of unfounded claims over the past ten years. He just never stops.

3

 

Ok, in less than a year my brother's narcissistic soon-to-be-ex-husband who has been trying to use the kids as a tool to abuse my brother (who is their primary parent and caregiver) has managed to get himself slapped by the family court with an order that essentially tells him "don't come back here with any more bullshit, there needs to be a substantive change of circumstances for you to file another contempt motion and if you do come back here again with more of this bullshit, you will not like what happens to you.  Don't do it, we're serious, just stop it right now dude." 

Is there any way for your sister's attorney to bring something like this about?  Perhaps threatening him with motions to pay her legal fees?  Perhaps making a motion for limited decision making based on the adult son's testimony?  Sometimes the best defense is a good offense and all that.  

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The conspiracy theorist in me (which is not a strong part of me, mind you) wonders if someone didn't 
"Pay the judge a visit", so to speak. Because this ruling is just nonsense!

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I've been in close contact with my sister over the past few days.  She's a mess.  I'm really worried about her.  If you are the praying type, please pray for her to be strengthened.  I'm really worried that she is going to try to do something desperate.  My other sisters and I have been talking her off the ledge over the past few days.  She's not in a good place. (I'm not the only one seeing this; my mom and other sisters are seeing this also.  All of us are worried about her.)

Also, one of my other sisters has agreed to go with my sis to her next lawyer appointment to help her advocate for herself.  She needs an extra set of eyes and ears, since she's not thinking straight right now.

July 26th is the pending court date for this most recent nonsense.

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Oh Karen, I was really worried about that when you gave us the update.  It would be extremely difficult not to feel hopeless and despondent after ‘winning’ even a modicum of fair judgment and then being mired in this cesspool again only weeks later.

 

Praying for her strength, peace, and safety.  God is a bigger savior than her ex is an asshole, though it’s a near thing ?

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5 minutes ago, scholastica said:

Praying for all of you. It can be so hard to walk with someone through this, you and your family are an inspiration.

 

I just wish there were something more I could do.  I feel so helpless.  ?

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I am so sorry to hear about this, Kinsa.  What an utter nightmare for your poor sister

I am very glad that one of your other sisters is going to go with her to her next lawyer's appointment.  I completely agree with LucyStoner about going on the offensive-- they need to ask the lawyer about countersuing for attorneys' fees and court costs.  It might also be possible to file a charge with the state bar association against the ex's attorney(s).  

My state recently passed a law that gives judges more authority to stop lawsuits deemed 'abusive' against ex-spouses and partners.  I think it's still the only one in the country, though.

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Oh, I'll pray for her! Honestly, how could anyone stay sane in the situation she's been in? I'm just reading it, not living it and lets just say I had some unChristian thoughts of how to handle it, ending with "Is there a swamp around there anyway?" Sigh. 

Maybe she needs to talk to her doctor or a therapist?

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30 minutes ago, alisoncooks said:

Though, sadly, if that awful ex found out she was in therapy, could it be used against her....?

 

But if the court thinks she should be in therapy, it can be used against her that she isn't.

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Is he paying his lawyers? Or is he skipping out once they cut him off?  If he's not employed, what is he living on? Where is he getting the cash for all of this?

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