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Seeking Squirrels

Would you do two full days away from home?

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Next year we'll be doing 3rd and preK. DD is in a charter program that she attends one day a week from 9-3:30. She loves it and wants to stay. I am not thrilled with being under extra regulations, but it's not horrible. I found a co-op not too far from us that sounds amazing. It runs from 10-4 one day a week and they have so many fun things going on. I like that it has stuff for the younger kids too so my preschooler can be involved.

 

There are pros to both options. There are some cons to the charter one but DD does not want to leave. SO, would it be crazy to try to do both? I'm thinking it would be too much. That leaves us just three days a week at home. We also like participating in field trips and both programs offer 1-2 a month. So field trip weeks we would have only two days at home. I'm afraid this will leave me stressed to get through what we need to. Especially because due to special needs, my DD cannot "buckle down" and get through two math lessons or do extra on our days home to make up the difference.

 

I don't want to make DD leave the charter if doing both would be reasonable. But if we should really stick to one, I'd rather do the co-op.

 

Any BTDT or thoughts on this?

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No BTDT thoughts about the outside programs. They both sound like good programs and you are not obligated to complete an entire school year at either, right? I mean you can pull out if the first term goes badly, right?

 

Personally we've aimed for 7 days a week of school since the very beginning because I think that little kids need consistency and continual practice more than extended breaks. Doubly so because the attention spans are short so what they will do in a single sitting/day is limited anyway.

So, my only BTDT advice to you is to remember, there are 7 days in a week, not 5.

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I don't think it's crazy, but I don't think we could maintain a regular rhythm of school with two full days out of the house. Any way you could do the co-op in the afternoon only and do school in the morning?

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Next year we'll be doing 3rd and preK. DD is in a charter program that she attends one day a week from 9-3:30. She loves it and wants to stay. I am not thrilled with being under extra regulations, but it's not horrible. I found a co-op not too far from us that sounds amazing. It runs from 10-4 one day a week and they have so many fun things going on. I like that it has stuff for the younger kids too so my preschooler can be involved.

 

There are pros to both options. There are some cons to the charter one but DD does not want to leave. SO, would it be crazy to try to do both? I'm thinking it would be too much. That leaves us just three days a week at home. We also like participating in field trips and both programs offer 1-2 a month. So field trip weeks we would have only two days at home. I'm afraid this will leave me stressed to get through what we need to. Especially because due to special needs, my DD cannot "buckle down" and get through two math lessons or do extra on our days home to make up the difference.

 

I don't want to make DD leave the charter if doing both would be reasonable. But if we should really stick to one, I'd rather do the co-op.

 

Any BTDT or thoughts on this?

 

I would not do it. Relaxed as I am, two full days away from home would be a bomb for us.

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Why does she love the co-op--is it the activities, or certain kids? If it's the activities or something else that the co-op also has, maybe she'd take to the switch a bit easier?

 

I can't imagine two full days away from home--for us it would be too much, but some people would like it.

 

Can you visit the co-op and see what it's actually like? 

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We did that and are still doing that. However my youngest who is my wiggle butt is willing to do some math (less than an hour) on weekends and holidays in return for no math on days out.

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You might want to start thinking about what you are planning for the next few years. Do you want to stay with the charter program? Do you have great friends there? Is it time to move on now and start new opportunities? You could school on the weekends but you know you can't get everything done in two to three days a week. 

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No BTDT thoughts about the outside programs. They both sound like good programs and you are not obligated to complete an entire school year at either, right? I mean you can pull out if the first term goes badly, right?

 

Personally we've aimed for 7 days a week of school since the very beginning because I think that little kids need consistency and continual practice more than extended breaks. Doubly so because the attention spans are short so what they will do in a single sitting/day is limited anyway.

So, my only BTDT advice to you is to remember, there are 7 days in a week, not 5.

I don't mind doing some school on the weekends, but I don't want to depend on it. We do a lot of out and about on the weekends, sleepovers at grandma's, and stuff that gets us out of the house first thing. No obligation to stay at either, though there are non-refundable fees associated with the co-op.

 

I don't think it's crazy, but I don't think we could maintain a regular rhythm of school with two full days out of the house. Any way you could do the co-op in the afternoon only and do school in the morning?

We could technically. It just depends on when they offer the classes DD will most want to take. But they have so many great ones going on, we won't want to miss out if we could be there.

 

Why does she love the co-op--is it the activities, or certain kids? If it's the activities or something else that the co-op also has, maybe she'd take to the switch a bit easier?

 

I can't imagine two full days away from home--for us it would be too much, but some people would like it.

 

Can you visit the co-op and see what it's actually like? 

It's one girl in particular she doesn't want to leave. But they aren't truly all that close and I get a strong feeling the child's mother doesn't like me, so arranging for outside play won't fly. I did visit the co-op on Monday and liked it. They were all very friendly and we talked for some time and they answered all my questions.

 

You might want to start thinking about what you are planning for the next few years. Do you want to stay with the charter program? Do you have great friends there? Is it time to move on now and start new opportunities? You could school on the weekends but you know you can't get everything done in two to three days a week. 

I honestly want to move away from the charter. My state is so easy to homeschool in, so we would get out from under all regulations and testing if we left. And next year starts a lot more testing than we've had so far. No great friends there, I don't know any of the other parents. I don't even know all of her teachers! I'm just reluctant to pull my daughter away when she doesn't want to leave. And we will lose our spot, so if we leave, we're gone. We could go on a waitlist but may or may not make it back in.

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How many of your required subjects would be covered by attending both of those programs?  If they're mostly just enrichment, and you'd still have to cover language arts, math, science, etc. at home, I wouldn't do both.  If maybe they cover pretty much everything, except maybe math and skills in reading and handwriting, it might be doable for the next year or two.  I do think that two full days out every week is going to leave you all exhausted, though, but the trade-off might be that you don't feel so exhausted because you don't have to fit too much into the days that you are at home.

 

I would see where you're heading in the next few years, though.  As they get older, it's harder to get serious work done, IMO, if you're out a lot.  We regularly have one half day of schoolwork a week because we're out for a good part of that day, and on weeks when we have a field trip or other reason to be out on a different day, it's harder to get work done on the three days when we are home.  (And ymmv depending on your family, but I'm unwilling to do weekend schooling as a matter of routine.  For one, I need a break from being "on" all the time, and I need time to catch up on the stuff I don't have time to get to during the week, but more importantly, that's the bulk of everyone's time with DH, and I'm unwilling to sacrifice the kids' time with their father for schoolwork.)

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I guess the question is what are you guys doing academic wise that is so important and so urgent it can be skipped during the 2 days, yet it can't be prioritized to include it on the weekends? This isn't an attack, I want you to ask and answer that question to yourself

"Is X really important? How important? More important than Y? If I could pick only X or Y, then how do I fit in __"

 

Since you know in April that you'll have a busier schedule next year, you have May-August to get ready, and you just need to plan.

 

If you purchase/make/mod materials so that they are portable and accessible then it should be easy to do the basics even on the go. We have done a lot of school on the go. It can be done and done well, but I cannot do it well without planning ahead. I could give you a list of tips and tricks to get started if you're interested.

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Sometimes it's hard for kids to envision themselves making new friends in a new place, so it feels safer to hang on to what they know. Maybe just give it a semester - time for your dd to get adjusted to the new place, and then drop the old one?

We did 3rd last year with pretty much two days gone and while I wouldn't do it again (due to kids not being able to get into a good routine at home, 1st year homeschooling, tired out too much) it didn't kill us academically. But we always got math in four days a week no matter what.

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I honestly want to move away from the charter. My state is so easy to homeschool in, so we would get out from under all regulations and testing if we left. And next year starts a lot more testing than we've had so far. No great friends there, I don't know any of the other parents. I don't even know all of her teachers! I'm just reluctant to pull my daughter away when she doesn't want to leave. And we will lose our spot, so if we leave, we're gone. We could go on a waitlist but may or may not make it back in.

 

Then do it. She will make new friends.

 

Being free of the charter trumps your dd wanting to be with *these* friends instead of *those.*

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I wouldn't do it if the classes are not academic box checking for me type classes. Math has to be done four days a week, IMO. I also wouldn't give away core classes. If I can check off Science and History and Art and Poetry then maybe. I could do the core classes the rest of the time, probably. It sounds like the charter can go though. Your child will adjust.

 

edited to add: I wouldn't give up Science and History though. Those are the classes that we enjoy together so they see mommy isn't all work with no fun.

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At those ages, I would probably do it if your 3rd grader is handling the charter requirements with ease.  I would explain that there would eventually need to be a choice.  IME, it's already complicated for my older kids being away 1 full day a week with a handful of other short activities sprinkled through the month.  There's no way they would be able to complete core classes in just 3 days a week, and certainly not with any other occasional field trips or daytime activities.  But I do think it would have been fun when they were little!

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In your shoes, I would make the move now. Tell dd you're going to try it for a year and you can always go back. If it's just one friendship holding her at the charter, she'll probably move on.

 

ETA- we did 2 days a week out and it's hard and not sustainable. Field trips and other fun stuff pretty much grind to a halt because there is no margin. Even doctor and dentist appointments become a problem.

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How many of your required subjects would be covered by attending both of those programs?  If they're mostly just enrichment, and you'd still have to cover language arts, math, science, etc. at home, I wouldn't do both.  If maybe they cover pretty much everything, except maybe math and skills in reading and handwriting, it might be doable for the next year or two.  I do think that two full days out every week is going to leave you all exhausted, though, but the trade-off might be that you don't feel so exhausted because you don't have to fit too much into the days that you are at home.

 

I would see where you're heading in the next few years, though.  As they get older, it's harder to get serious work done, IMO, if you're out a lot.  We regularly have one half day of schoolwork a week because we're out for a good part of that day, and on weeks when we have a field trip or other reason to be out on a different day, it's harder to get work done on the three days when we are home.  (And ymmv depending on your family, but I'm unwilling to do weekend schooling as a matter of routine.  For one, I need a break from being "on" all the time, and I need time to catch up on the stuff I don't have time to get to during the week, but more importantly, that's the bulk of everyone's time with DH, and I'm unwilling to sacrifice the kids' time with their father for schoolwork.)

It depends on what classes she ends up doing at the co op since I would mostly let her choose. She voted for clay, ballet, sewing, MSB science, simple machines, and cooking. They will have several offerings each block and we sign up for what we want. At the charter they do enough history and science to technically meet state standards, but we still do both at home anyway. They also did writing, music, art, drama, and a few other elective things. For the most part I count anything they do there as extra, but I guess I did let history slide more at home knowing that they were covering it there. We still do it but not consistently. She doesn't get to choose classes at the charter, they do history and science in the morning, then rotate through 4 classes in the afternoon that will change at semester.

 

We feel the same. If we really need to make up something we will, or if it's an occasional thing. But we don't want to plan on it being a regular thing. That's our family time.

 

I guess the question is what are you guys doing academic wise that is so important and so urgent it can be skipped during the 2 days, yet it can't be prioritized to include it on the weekends? This isn't an attack, I want you to ask and answer that question to yourself

"Is X really important? How important? More important than Y? If I could pick only X or Y, then how do I fit in __"

 

Since you know in April that you'll have a busier schedule next year, you have May-August to get ready, and you just need to plan.

 

If you purchase/make/mod materials so that they are portable and accessible then it should be easy to do the basics even on the go. We have done a lot of school on the go. It can be done and done well, but I cannot do it well without planning ahead. I could give you a list of tips and tricks to get started if you're interested.

Math easily falls under this category for me. It's important enough that I don't want to relegate it to 2-3 times a week because I don't feel like that's enough. But our family time is a priority and I don't want to sacrifice that on a regular basis in order to get more time in on math. I would rather find other ways to make it work or else do only one program.

 

I wouldn't do it if the classes are not academic box checking for me type classes. Math has to be done four days a week, IMO. I also wouldn't give away core classes. If I can check off Science and History and Art and Poetry then maybe. I could do the core classes the rest of the time, probably. It sounds like the charter can go though. Your child will adjust.

 

edited to add: I wouldn't give up Science and History though. Those are the classes that we enjoy together so they see mommy isn't all work with no fun.

What's hard for me is I don't delegate these things well. So even if they cover something, I don't "count" it. So we still do it at home. If I were to let go and trust the charter was doing it well, I could let history go. Science is DD's favorite so we do that no matter how much she gets elsewhere.

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Two days away from home would be too much for me. It wouldn't allow for much leeway for sick days, travel, or field trips.

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I'd let her go to both this year.  What if you drop the Charter and she hates the co-op?  I'd tell her that this is the only year you'll do both and next year one of them has to be dropped.  For this year I'd do some Science reading and an occasional activity, No history since it is covered at the charter, no art, also already covered, that leaves Math and Language Arts at home. I would think 3 days of regular work with an additional day "fit in" (before/after classes, on Saturday morning with Dad) would be fine.  The only thing I regret about schooling my kids when they were young was that I worried to much about academics and not enough about play.  

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I would. Next year my DD wants to do 3 days/week at the enrichment program she attended K-5 (before we tried B&M school). She will have a full day on either Monday or Wednesday, and a 4 hour block Tu/Th. Since we do math on the weekend anyway, it will give her 2 days/week at home to work on independent stuff. But, we're basically 3/4 of the way to unschooling at this point, so I'm good with it. I have no set plants otherwise, because with my DD, learning happens when she wants to learn, and she'll learn more in activities/classes she's chosen for herself.

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PS, when my kids were little they would be sad or worried about changes.  I told them that every school year was different no matter what.  If they went to PS, There would be a new teacher every year, different kids in the class.  The friend that they sat next to the last year might be in a different class with a different recess or lunch time, etc. It's hard to understand when they are little, but they always adjusted.

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If it's just the one girl who you aren't crazy about, or the mother, I'd go. (Edited to add as in leave).Little kids are more adaptable than we think. I think two days might be doable for some people, but not for me. I always worry how I'd get the math done. The other things can be done in coop settings but not math, usually.

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Yes, we do two full days out of the home. It works fine for me now. (I wouldn't have done it when I was homeschooling 3 kids though)

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At that age I would have been OK with it as a temporary measure unless they took all the 'fun stuff' and that ruined our relationship.

 

After a semester or at most a year I'd cut back to just one, hoping that it would be the coop.

 

And in the meantime I'd do a math lesson every Saturday, and continue math into the summer. 

 

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I wouldn't. It will be harder to pull out a settled and happy 10/11/12 year old. Of course she doesn't want to leave, change is hard and scary. There simply isn't enough time for every good thing.

 

We had to make the difficult decision to leave a great music teacher because her methods required at least 2 days out of the house a week, not even full days. We did it for a year and it was tough to pull the kids. But it was exhausting. We had no time to do field trips or catch up with actual friends. We fell behind in school. There was no leeway for illnesses.

In the end we all drew up a priority list and we found a better fit. We said a difficult goodbye to the truly lovely teacher, and did what was best for the family. It did involve some bribery ;)

The kids are now very happy with the change, but they didn't have the maturity to make a good decision. It's our job to make the decisions and help them deal with it.

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It doesn't sound like there is a great reason to keep the charter to me.  It sounds like you guys could make a fresh start at the co-op. 

It really has been good for her and she gets a lot out of what they do. So many people rave about this program as being so great. So I guess I feel guilty giving it up.

 

PS, when my kids were little they would be sad or worried about changes.  I told them that every school year was different no matter what.  If they went to PS, There would be a new teacher every year, different kids in the class.  The friend that they sat next to the last year might be in a different class with a different recess or lunch time, etc. It's hard to understand when they are little, but they always adjusted.

This is true. I'm not sure my DD would see it this way, but it helps me not feel quite as bad!

 

At that age I would have been OK with it as a temporary measure unless they took all the 'fun stuff' and that ruined our relationship.

 

After a semester or at most a year I'd cut back to just one, hoping that it would be the coop.

 

And in the meantime I'd do a math lesson every Saturday, and continue math into the summer. 

I think they will be taking most of the fun stuff. If for no other reason than we won't have as much time to get to fun stuff at home. It will be down to business the days we work at home.

 

I wouldn't. It will be harder to pull out a settled and happy 10/11/12 year old. Of course she doesn't want to leave, change is hard and scary. There simply isn't enough time for every good thing.

 

We had to make the difficult decision to leave a great music teacher because her methods required at least 2 days out of the house a week, not even full days. We did it for a year and it was tough to pull the kids. But it was exhausting. We had no time to do field trips or catch up with actual friends. We fell behind in school. There was no leeway for illnesses.

In the end we all drew up a priority list and we found a better fit. We said a difficult goodbye to the truly lovely teacher, and did what was best for the family. It did involve some bribery ;)

The kids are now very happy with the change, but they didn't have the maturity to make a good decision. It's our job to make the decisions and help them deal with it.

This is something I really need to keep in mind. It's hard to give up something that is good. I feel guilty for taking away something that has value. But just because it's good, doesn't mean it's good for us right now.

 

I'd let her go to both this year.  What if you drop the Charter and she hates the co-op?  I'd tell her that this is the only year you'll do both and next year one of them has to be dropped.  For this year I'd do some Science reading and an occasional activity, No history since it is covered at the charter, no art, also already covered, that leaves Math and Language Arts at home. I would think 3 days of regular work with an additional day "fit in" (before/after classes, on Saturday morning with Dad) would be fine.  The only thing I regret about schooling my kids when they were young was that I worried to much about academics and not enough about play.  

This is what I'm afraid it would become, though. I don't want to just do LA and math at home. DD loves science and is sad if we don't spend time on it every day. She loves art and would also be upset if we stopped that at home. No matter how much of each she is getting somewhere else. I'm worried if we're too busy that's when we'll go into doing just what *must* be done at home and that will be all LA and math, no other.

 

 

 

 

From my responses it seems I'm leaning to leaving the charter. I guess I'm just held back by worry of giving up something good and guilt of pulling DD away unwillingly. And we've been with them two years and *I* don't do well with change, either!

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I could not do 2 full days out, but strongly believe that it is child dependent. My kiddo really, really needs structure. This year we did a small coop where I actually taught a people in history class (strong science bent!). My dd learned nothing, as it was material I had previously taught her. It was good for her in many ways, but I discovered that we lost pretty much the day prior to coop in preparation and the day after as my child is a creature that requires structure...it meant that for a one day Class we essentially lost three days!!!

 

Right now I believe the coop is important for her, but we now do school 7 days per week (although weekends are primarily games!) as she seriously needs this for structure and to be happy:(

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One thing I did was have my kids (the 8 & 10 y/o) write a list of the things they loved most and really wanted time for, to the things they liked less. They could put 10 things down each. They loved that activity.

It then allowed us to compare our lists with where we spent our time, useful for evaluating if a good thing was good enough value for the time.

Sounds like science and art would be top of the list and she can choose them with the co-op. What high list item does the charter meet?

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How high is your 3rd grader's social needs and do you think it would ramp up or decrease this fall?

 

If it would ramp up, keep the charter for a semester, then decide to keep or drop.

 

If it would be the same or decrease, switch to coop.

 

Mine are happy being home only two days a week and won't mind being out everyday. So we just work around it. My DS10 has a high social interaction need which means we ramp up activities year on year since he was 8 because he was unbearably sulky and playdates were very hard to come by.

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What classes will she take at the charter and/or co op? 

 

I would do 36 days of school in the summer (or however many weeks long the co op is) just so I could relax about missing so many days. 

 

When my kids were younger, we did two days at a co op. (I worked at both of them) I made sure she got academic classes at both as well as fun classes at both. The co ops only ran 24 weeks out of the year. So we just did 24 days of school in the summer. It was not a big deal. We also did a bit of school on co op days. She always had to read everyday. She always did math practice every day. We used the time in car to listen to books. 

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One thing I did was have my kids (the 8 & 10 y/o) write a list of the things they loved most and really wanted time for, to the things they liked less. They could put 10 things down each. They loved that activity.

It then allowed us to compare our lists with where we spent our time, useful for evaluating if a good thing was good enough value for the time.

Sounds like science and art would be top of the list and she can choose them with the co-op. What high list item does the charter meet?

I like this idea, thank you! I can't think of any high list item the charter meets that won't be met at co-op.

 

How high is your 3rd grader's social needs and do you think it would ramp up or decrease this fall?

 

If it would ramp up, keep the charter for a semester, then decide to keep or drop.

 

If it would be the same or decrease, switch to coop.

 

Mine are happy being home only two days a week and won't mind being out everyday. So we just work around it. My DS10 has a high social interaction need which means we ramp up activities year on year since he was 8 because he was unbearably sulky and playdates were very hard to come by.

She needs the social interaction, but it would be more effective at the co-op where I can help facilitate those interactions when necessary. Still sorting out the special needs, but being there to see how she's doing would definitely be helpful. That's part of why I want to do the co-op whether we stay with the charter or not.

 

What classes will she take at the charter and/or co op? 

 

I would do 36 days of school in the summer (or however many weeks long the co op is) just so I could relax about missing so many days. 

 

When my kids were younger, we did two days at a co op. (I worked at both of them) I made sure she got academic classes at both as well as fun classes at both. The co ops only ran 24 weeks out of the year. So we just did 24 days of school in the summer. It was not a big deal. We also did a bit of school on co op days. She always had to read everyday. She always did math practice every day. We used the time in car to listen to books. 

Charter - history, character, science, and probably writing, pe, more science, and some other electives. Same schedule for all kids, no choices.

Co-op - Probably an art of some kind, ballet, cooking or sewing, maybe a science like dinosaurs or astronomy.... I won't know until schedules come out and she chooses her classes. Ten week terms and then she'd get new classes.

 

This would be a good idea except we're already working all through this summer. We have to get a few things caught up that fell behind this year while we sorted out what she needed. (for example math was such a disaster the first half of the year that we completely scrapped it and started over in january at the beginning of a new curriculum.)

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If she really loves the Charter school, I would try doing both.   However, I would explain that some days she would need to do extra work to make up for not being at home for two days.  We frequently double up on some subjects to make up for days missed so for us it wouldn't be a big deal.  You could also try doing one or two core subjects on the Co-Op day since it doesn't start until 10:00.  

 

Suzanne

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No way.  Even a half day from home GREATLY affects our entire week and our ability to do housework, school work, set a reasonable and predictable schedule, and even our vacations, as we get behind in certain subjects.  It affects sleep, stress levels and everything else. 

 

this year we did half day away from home, and then every other week it was a full day out of the house.

 

I think you would find many of the reasons you homeschool would be negated by that situation.  :o)

 

 

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I don't know that I would choose a co-op over a charter.  Every single co-op I have ever been a part of from 3 families to 100 families has had so many organizational and discipline problems. I'm not saying I'll never do one again, but there's a problem when there's no clear leader, and no clear hierarchy of people willing to enforce things.  It's like of like organized anarchy.  LOL.

 

What is it about this co-op that is a draw to you, when the charter offers so much and your dd loves it? 

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We are doing something similar this year. We do CC one day a week already, my rising 2nd grader will be enrolled in a Cottage School (similar to a charter, it covers all the basics of 2nd grade- math, reading, spelling, writing plus some Bible, music and art), and my rising 4th grader will be going to an integrated Science-Math-Art co-op one day a week. So that means I will only have 2 days at home with DD7 and 3 days at home with DS9… 

 

I've committed to trying it for one year and we can always re-evaluate for next year. Technically, if its a total disaster, we can pull out at any time. My kids are young and I will not always have the flexibility to let them do this stuff. 

 

But that means I'm going to have to lower my expectations for our school to what we can do on the days we have at home and TRUST the education they are getting other places (not an easy thing for this admitted control freak).

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