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If you and your mate have come to different political views UPDATE #161


Ginevra
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When dh and I married, we shared the same political views. We now find ourselves on opposite sides quite often. He has become more conservative (which is interesting since he was an atheist when I married him) and I have become more liberal (I was, and still am, a Christian when we married but politically I have become less conservative). We still talk politics. We debate and discuss but if one of us starts to feel defensive or upset we just say so and move on. I really enjoy discussing politics with dh and would hate to give it up. Our dds are more on my side of things for this election but we still all four are able to discuss and debate things nicely. We often end up laughing and feeling sad about our current options. 

 

I would not be okay with dh not actually listening and taking my feelings into account. It sounds like he's too caught up in things right now so, if I were you, I would bow out of political discussions with him this time around. It doesn't mean it always has to be that way but maybe this election cycle is just too much. 

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I always find it very interesting when people say that they are on opposite sides of politics with their partner.  There are so many political  issues that speak to the core of who we are, that if spouses are on the opposite sides of it - how can that be?

 

We do disagree on some topics, mostly bc I don't care as much about social issues while he feels more strongly about it. 

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I always find it very interesting when people say that they are on opposite sides of politics with their partner.  There are so many political  issues that speak to the core of who we are, that if spouses are on the opposite sides of it - how can that be?

 

We do disagree on some topics, mostly bc I don't care as much about social issues while he feels more strongly about it. 

 

I don't think we're all as far apart as we think. When I first met and married dh, he was very liberal and I was very conservative. What we had in common was a love for people, a desire to help, and we saw others as equals. We still have those things in common even though our politics have changed. I think sometimes people forget that that each side of the political spectrum can believe and feel as the other side but have a valid reason for voting differently.

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Re: the bolded. I did not mean to give the impression (if I did) that I think we must talk about or agree on this subject to have a real relationship. That isn't what I meant when I said the thing earlier about being housemates. I meant pretending to agree - politics, or any subject - so there wouldn't be an argument.

 

I have no artifice whatsoever. If I don't agree with someone on some matter, I either say nothing (if politeness is essential) or I make a statement about my differing view (if it is someone I'm close to). But I don't give lip service to thinking X while internally, I definitely believe Y. So, really, there is no option that would have me feining agreement so he will quit badgering me.

 

I had a notion that I might buy a stuffed animal badger and if he starts making remarks that want a political response, I might just throw the badger at him.

 

Thanks for the clarification.

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I think you will have to ignore him. It will be a wall in your marriage which as you say is not conducive to marital harmony. But you have no other choice really. I had a similar very difficult time in my first marriage over religion.

 

I am sorry. You really need to change your routine. Completely. No more morning time together over coffee if the tv or radio is involved. You need to find a way to preserve the love you have.

 

I agree with this.

 

You simply cannot talk about it. My grandma had to do this. She would say, "I need to clean such and such" or "I'm going to go check on the flowers" and just leave.

 

I think you will need to do that.

 

As the rancor increases it is almost impossible to discuss these things civilly in this country. There are some propositions (again, not to name any specifics, so let's not go there) that really violate my sense of humanity.

 

And while I agree that it's hard to imagine being so opposed on some points of politics, my partner and I who have like 99% of our thoughts on things in common, disagree on a couple of things that simply shock me. I can't see his point of view at all. I believe he's totally irrational.

 

We cannot discuss them, which is hard because I happen to agree with his family and my family and he is all by his lonesome on this one, and sometimes his parents tease him gently about it.

 

It takes 1000% of my willpower to not participate and sometimes I fail.

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:grouphug:

Dh and I discuss the pros and cons of each and try to make the best decision we can.  Neither of us would be overly upset if the other voted differently unless it was voting for the other large national party.  I guess both of the candidates in our party have their flaws and no matter who is running that will always be the case and maybe that is why it isn't such a big deal for us.

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I always find it very interesting when people say that they are on opposite sides of politics with their partner. There are so many political issues that speak to the core of who we are, that if spouses are on the opposite sides of it - how can that be?

 

We do disagree on some topics, mostly bc I don't care as much about social issues while he feels more strongly about it.

Well, you're right; this is why it is an unpleasant spot to be in. Again - steering away from mentioning any real issue - it is usually because I think the issue at hand doesn't affect me, that it doesn't harm me if this is illegal or that is legal, so I think there doesn't need to be a law over XYZ issue. But he does, IMO, partly because of where he gets his news. And those news organizations use FEAR - they project that if this or that is legal or illegal, the sky will fall for sure. I don't buy that, and it bugs me that the man I love buys this.

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On Jimmy Fallon's show he asked people to tweet their genius ideas and he read the best of them.  He saved the best for last, "There should be a 'none of the above' option during elections.  If that option wins a new election should be held with all new candidates."  It got a loud round of applause.

 

 

We may well be going to a double dissolution in the coming months. That's probably going to be as much fun as the hung parliament was, even if my brother doesn't win in our local electorate. (This is terribly exciting stuff. He's been watching politics since grade 3 and is finally running, as an independent candidate!)

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My dh and I see eye to eye, well mostly, not always, on politics but I have several sisters who don't agree with their husbands politically.  Somehow they turn it into a lighthearted joke.  They always laugh about how they 'cancel' each others' votes out every election.  But here's the thing, this is the way to really be tolerant.  My sisters have learned to listen to the other side and politely disagree.  You can be deeply in love with someone but not agree with them.  My own dh is of a different religion than I am and I am passionate about my religion, but we still have learned to get along and respect one another.  So instead of seeing this as something that could hurt your relationship, see it as an opportunity to grow in love, respect and tolerance.  Sorry, if that sounds preachy but it definitely can be something that actually deepens your marriage rather than alienates you from one another.

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Dh has always been apolitical but in the past few years he's been more active on Facebook and a lot of his friends (most from way back in high school) have beliefs I find distasteful.  For a while he was sharing hateful memes that he didn't understand the sub-text behind them and how people would take them.  I explained a few of them to him, he'd remove them but a couple times I told him if he was going to share stuff like that, I would block him as a friend.  :glare:  No big deal but I had cleaned up my wall so I didn't have to see that stuff and I wasn't going to put up with it from him.

 

Dh thinks he's funny so with this election, he's starting spouting the most outrageous things he could think of and making "Rah Rah" comments for a candidate he knows I can't stand.  I would answer with a quick comment about how I feel about that candidate but I eventually told him to stop in front of the kids because I didn't want them repeating his crap in public.

 

In general, he falls on one side of the political spectrum and I fall on the other, and the friends we each have on Facebook tend to reflect our own views.  

 

Since we are in a state that is not considered key, we don't usually get a lot of political ads (I was shocked at how many there were when we were visiting a different state in an election year) plus we don't watch many commercials and only local news, so it's not a frequent discussion in our house, thankfully.

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DH and I are technically in the same party.  But we may end up voting for different people in the national election come November.  I know for sure we voted for different people in our primary a few months ago.  He is very vocal about his beliefs.  I am not. And, as many have suggested, I try to change the subject if things get a little too heated [ie: most of the time].

 

It's a matter of respecting your spouse and respecting yourself.  I know that, for me, arguing about politics is the surest way to get me to shut down. DH loves to debate.  Loves. To. Debate. I hate it.  So, if I can steer him towards a topic that I either agree with him on, or don't really care about the outcome, we do fine.  But, especially with this election year, that is getting harder and harder to do.  I do have to remind dh that we need to agree to disagree and DROP IT NOW. 

 

Sometimes that works.

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Well we don't always agree, and when one of us gets on a rant usually the other just humors it.  I've tempered DH's opinions quite a bit by pointing out the flaws in every candidate, even those he disagrees with.  And by pointing out logical errors that make him lean one way or another.  Frequently things are much more complicated than sound-bites and talk radio make them sound.  Nuance is important. 

 

I wonder if part of the problem is that you don't care about this one issue that he cares so much about. Perhaps if you took the time to research it you'd either agree with him or come up with facts that prove his political entertainers don't have logical arguments, even if they are entertaining. Perhaps you could prove the apocalypse isn't happening at all, and wherever you are on the political spectrum, things are getting better in every measurable way all the time.

 

It's a little dated, but I highly recommend reading It's Not News, It's Fark: How Mass Media Tries to Pass Off Crap As News. It's all about how the media tries to terrorize you to keep up ratings, but really life is getting better and better all the time, in every measurable way.  I'm actually including it as a home school book this year because my kids tends to get carried away believing the fear mongering too.

 

Another tactic might be religious.  There are a lot of verses about trusting God and not fear. Deciding to listen to fear-mongering so-called news rather than God isn't particularly holy, and if the apocalypse is coming, doesn't he want to be on the right side of that equation?

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I always find it very interesting when people say that they are on opposite sides of politics with their partner.  There are so many political  issues that speak to the core of who we are, that if spouses are on the opposite sides of it - how can that be?

 

We do disagree on some topics, mostly bc I don't care as much about social issues while he feels more strongly about it. 

 

A lot of this idea seems to come from the propaganda - and I think that is what it is - that people who are of a different political view have fundamentally different (wrong) ideas about basic morality, governance, and justice.  So - they must just really be beyond the pale.

 

Now, there are some people who really are beyond the pale.  But most people want fairly similar kinds of things.  They want people to be respected, they want fairness, they want justice, they want a secure life, they want their kids to be happy and healthy, they want an opportunity to better themselves in some way, they want a strong community around them.

 

Different political views tend to come out of differing views of how to achive these things, differing views of what the obstacles are, sometimes differing views on how to interpret facts or which ones are important, and differing views on how to resolve the conflicts that arise between the different, real values.  People also disagree on what can realistically be achieved and so how to manage shortfalls.

 

I don't think it is that unusual to agree with someone about underlying goals but have differences in how to get there. Especially when many are very complex and addressing them means using complex systems. And really, in the US system, though things are slightly odd now, the two major parties are actually very close on many, many issues, and fall almost directly next to each other on the political spectrum.  In a way, it almost seems odd that people are so divided, though it seems like a truism that disagreements between close positions are often the worst.

 

Aside from all of that, over the course of 40 years many people change their views significantly, and I can't see how there is any way to ensure that spouses do so in the same direction.  One hopes that the recognition that someone beloved has a different view, and can have a different view, would lead to a healthier political climate.

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I always find it very interesting when people say that they are on opposite sides of politics with their partner.  There are so many political  issues that speak to the core of who we are, that if spouses are on the opposite sides of it - how can that be?

 

We do disagree on some topics, mostly bc I don't care as much about social issues while he feels more strongly about it. 

 

For a while, dh and I were opposites, but now are closer together on the political spectrum. When we disagreed more about things, we still had the values of caring and loving each other, our faith, our families, our community, etc. We still both had similar morals even though one was liberal and was one conservative. Now, one is further to the liberal side than before and one is slightly liberal. And we both STILL do the above, caring and loving each other, our families, our church, our community, etc, etc.............

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So many people don't recognize that but you are spot on!

(below is a quote but the quote indicators disappeared)

 


And really, in the US system, though things are slightly odd now, the two major parties are actually very close on many, many issues, and fall almost directly next to each other on the political spectrum.  In a way, it almost seems odd that people are so divided, though it seems like a truism that disagreements between close positions are often the worst.

 

 

 

Edited by QueenCat
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We may well be going to a double dissolution in the coming months. That's probably going to be as much fun as the hung parliament was, even if my brother doesn't win in our local electorate. (This is terribly exciting stuff. He's been watching politics since grade 3 and is finally running, as an independent candidate!)

Your brother is one of my 4 favorite Australians*! How fun, good luck to him!

 

*ingrouped with you, sadie and hugh jackman, obviously.

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I always find it very interesting when people say that they are on opposite sides of politics with their partner. There are so many political issues that speak to the core of who we are, that if spouses are on the opposite sides of it - how can that be?

 

 

I dunno, i cant think of any political issue that speaks yo the CORE of who i am as a human bean. How i think ppl should be treated, i guess is what you mean? That is true.

 

But, my huz and i are different religions. It is truly, truly no problem at all between the two of us.

 

Because when we speak, we do it understanding that we think ppl should be treated a certain way. Ykwim?

 

One of the things i tell my kids all the time is "its ok yo let other ppl be wrong." A mind was never truly changed by coersion.

 

Not yo imply dh and i have never slung mud lol. But at the end of the day, we agreed to be married regardless of anything else. And we have STANDARDS of acceptability in marriage. Constant beratement and harranging such as in the op definitely fail to meet those standards.

 

Im sorry quill :( Too bad you cant just snso your fingers and your husband would get his act togethet! Hopefully he will outgrow this and end up telling your grandkids someday about how their gma stood by him when he was being a super snot due to temporary pundit-induced insanity!

 

(Sorry typos)

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re truly core values, and how few political candidates / positions actually approach them:

 

I dunno, i cant think of any political issue that speaks yo the CORE of who i am as a human bean. How i think ppl should be treated, i guess is what you mean? That is true.

But, my huz and i are different religions. It is truly, truly no problem at all between the two of us.

Because when we speak, we do it understanding that we think ppl should be treated a certain way. Ykwim?....

 

 

I agree with this.  Both my husband and I tend towards being news junkies, and though we're more or less aligned on most policies and we do talk about politics a good bit, I am *far* more likely to cross party lines than he (he actually twitches if he knows I'm going to do so, lol, so I generally don't offer it unless he asks).  But it's very, very rare that an issue really crosses into fundamental, core values.

 

But it can.  Staying well out of the US field, here is an example:  I lived for a year in the Philippines, and one of the candidates currently up for election there recently made comments about a gang rape/murder that do speak to my core.   That kind of response -- hovering in a zone between trivialization and outright glorification -- strikes me so squarely in the gut, on such a fundamental core level, that to know that a friend or family member continued to support that candidate would seriously diminish my estimation of the person.  God help my marriage, if it were my husband; I really don't know how I would wind my way through such a collision of values.

 

There are very, very few examples like that, though.  Fortunately.

 

 


 

...

One of the things i tell my kids all the time is "its ok yo let other ppl be wrong." A mind was never truly changed by coersion.

Not yo imply dh and i have never slung mud lol. But at the end of the day, we agreed to be married regardless of anything else. And we have STANDARDS of acceptability in marriage. Constant beratement and harranging such as in the op definitely fail to meet those standards.
...

:lol:

 

and

 

:iagree:

 

 

Quill, I'm sorry you're going through this.  The only solace I can offer is, it's finite.  November will come, November will go, and as you know, the earth will continue to orbit.

 

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A party's policies reflect their values. If you vote for that party/person, you are endorsing those values. I honestly would struggle to respect dh if he shared/endorsed the values of 'the other' party/person -  It would chip away. It would also drive me nuts to know we were cancelling out each other's votes.

 

Dh cares less about politics than I do, but he cares much less on the same side. That's doable. 

 

 

Interesting... I don't know that parties here have sufficient internal cohesion for me to feel this.  Here -- maybe especially specifically here in my tiny purple state, where more people are registered unaffiliated than with either of the major parties -- I feel like I'm casting a vote for an individual, not a party platform.  And particularly at the state and local level, the values of individual candidates very often don't align particularly cleanly to the Loud Voices Proclaiming the Party Platform.  Connecticut, land of Lowell Weicker Republicans and Joe Lieberman Democrats...

 

... and I also very often find myself agreeing with some of a candidates'  policies and disagreeing with others, and therefore having to do a sort of matrix weighting analysis to come out with a net preference, lol... and the idea that a friend or family member weights different policies more or less heavily than me and comes to a different rank order is neither surprising nor difficult for me...

 

(Which is maybe why I'm relatively likely to cross party lines, particularly at the state and local levels.)

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A party's policies reflect their values. If you vote for that party/person, you are endorsing those values. I honestly would struggle to respect dh if he shared/endorsed the values of 'the other' party/person -  It would chip away. It would also drive me nuts to know we were cancelling out each other's votes.

 

Dh cares less about politics than I do, but he cares much less on the same side. That's doable. 

I don't agree with this at all. I know sometimes parties and think tanks market their positions as moral issues, but usually I think things are more complicated than that.  And both sides have a few positions that are ultimately inconsistent with their other positions.

 

Interesting... I don't know that parties here have sufficient internal cohesion for me to feel this.  Here -- maybe especially specifically here in my tiny purple state, where more people are registered unaffiliated than with either of the major parties -- I feel like I'm casting a vote for an individual, not a party platform.  And particularly at the state and local level, the values of individual candidates very often don't align particularly cleanly to the Loud Voices Proclaiming the Party Platform.  Connecticut, land of Lowell Weicker Republicans and Joe Lieberman Democrats...

 

... and I also very often find myself agreeing with some of a candidates'  policies and disagreeing with others, and therefore having to do a sort of matrix weighting analysis to come out with a net preference, lol... and the idea that a friend or family member weights different policies more or less heavily than me and comes to a different rank order is neither surprising nor difficult for me...

 

(Which is maybe why I'm relatively likely to cross party lines, particularly at the state and local levels.)

 

This.

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A party's policies reflect their values. If you vote for that party/person, you are endorsing those values. I honestly would struggle to respect dh if he shared/endorsed the values of 'the other' party/person -  It would chip away. It would also drive me nuts to know we were cancelling out each other's votes.

 

Dh cares less about politics than I do, but he cares much less on the same side. That's doable. 

 

OR you are voting for that person because you think they will cause the least harm, rather than you agree with them.

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Can you keep your ritual and watch something else? Just don't watch the news together until after the election. Watch Jimmy Fallon instead!

I don't think he would do this every day. He is already making concessions to me by watching cooking shows on the weekends and by switching to the local news and no longer watching the big cable news chanel in the mornings.

 

And we don't have DVR or streaming capabilities, so we can only watch schedules shows.

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Well we don't always agree, and when one of us gets on a rant usually the other just humors it. I've tempered DH's opinions quite a bit by pointing out the flaws in every candidate, even those he disagrees with. And by pointing out logical errors that make him lean one way or another. Frequently things are much more complicated than sound-bites and talk radio make them sound. Nuance is important.

 

I wonder if part of the problem is that you don't care about this one issue that he cares so much about. Perhaps if you took the time to research it you'd either agree with him or come up with facts that prove his political entertainers don't have logical arguments, even if they are entertaining. Perhaps you could prove the apocalypse isn't happening at all, and wherever you are on the political spectrum, things are getting better in every measurable way all the time.

 

It's a little dated, but I highly recommend reading It's Not News, It's Fark: How Mass Media Tries to Pass Off Crap As News. It's all about how the media tries to terrorize you to keep up ratings, but really life is getting better and better all the time, in every measurable way. I'm actually including it as a home school book this year because my kids tends to get carried away believing the fear mongering too.

 

Another tactic might be religious. There are a lot of verses about trusting God and not fear. Deciding to listen to fear-mongering so-called news rather than God isn't particularly holy, and if the apocalypse is coming, doesn't he want to be on the right side of that equation?

That book sounds very interesting, and *I* would like to read it, but I don't do research for him to try to show him another way of viewing things anymore. I have done it before and it is a total fail. He is too stubborn and will simply say that *that* info is the propaganda from the other side. So, I don't do it anymore.

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The net preference thing has made me almost not vote the last couple of times we've had elections, and not voting is heresy in our house. 

 

Your system may be different. In federal government here, I'm not sure that individual MP's have much influence over the party line. So whilst a candidate may be more moderate/progressive/conservative, the party line - whatever it is - is likely to prevail. So you vote for the man and not the party policy at your peril. 

 

 

Some of the biggest policy powerhouses keep quiet about it. Jenny Macklin, for eg. (We've been watching Kitchen Cabinet. It's been informative.)

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That book sounds very interesting, and *I* would like to read it, but I don't do research for him to try to show him another way of viewing things anymore. I have done it before and it is a total fail. He is too stubborn and will simply say that *that* info is the propaganda from the other side. So, I don't do it anymore.

Quoting myself to say: it's The Backfire Effect. I just ran accross this term and that's what it is. When a person has a strongly-held position, more information does not persuade them; it entrenches their belief that they are right.

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The net preference thing has made me almost not vote the last couple of times we've had elections, and not voting is heresy in our house.

 

Your system may be different. In federal government here, I'm not sure that individual MP's have much influence over the party line. So whilst a candidate may be more moderate/progressive/conservative, the party line - whatever it is - is likely to prevail. So you vote for the man and not the party policy at your peril.

We have elected officials, such as state auditor, who run on a party ticket and I do not believe they have to follow (or do follow) the national party line. The state auditor's position in WA is a very sore spot--recently convicted, rightly so--and we once had a great, just great auditor whom I voted for across the aisle. That is merely one example. However die hard I am on one side I have to look at the candidate's qualifications as well as convictions. I mean principles, not criminal record but given what happened recently I guess convictions of that kind, too.

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I somewhat agree with you. The problem is, even if I assume all motives, from whatever side of the fence, are benign, differing views on how to achieve things matters.

 

And it matters because human lives are impacted by those views on how to achieve things. I simply don't believe that all roads to the 'same' goal are equal. Obviously, the majority of the time, major parties are incredibly similar and I pretty much despise domestic politics because of it.  But on some issues - and I can think of plenty in the current context - they diverge sharply.

 

 

Disagreements on what can realistically be achieved are of a different order, and I think more manageable. 

 

Sure, but OTOH, there is always the possibility that we are the ones in the wrong, or we are only seeing part of the solution or problem, or even just that our different experiences are informing our perseption significantly.

 

So knowing that about our own position, it seems tricky to me to be too sure that what we think is a solution is the only proper perspective.

 

As well, I can't think of many situations where this would concretely affect what would happen within the marriage.  I mean - so you might vote differently, or choose to support different causes.  But presumably the normal political process that includes everyone will be what makes the actual decisions and enacts policy and such.

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Well, you're right; this is why it is an unpleasant spot to be in. Again - steering away from mentioning any real issue - it is usually because I think the issue at hand doesn't affect me, that it doesn't harm me if this is illegal or that is legal, so I think there doesn't need to be a law over XYZ issue. But he does, IMO, partly because of where he gets his news. And those news organizations use FEAR - they project that if this or that is legal or illegal, the sky will fall for sure. I don't buy that, and it bugs me that the man I love buys this.

 

Yes, that's different than core values, we are in a similar situation.   My husband feels very strongly about many issues and I just don't.   I wish that people would concentrate on a few really important ones.  He thinks I became very liberal and soft and I am all wrong.  Oh well.   I can debate with the best of them, but as I always tell him "I am not in a business of convincing people", so I drop it many times.

 

I am sorry that your husband is  not very respectful, regardless of the topic.  It would really really bother me and truthfully, I have no idea how I would handle it.

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A party's policies reflect their values. If you vote for that party/person, you are endorsing those values. I honestly would struggle to respect dh if he shared/endorsed the values of 'the other' party/person -  It would chip away. It would also drive me nuts to know we were cancelling out each other's votes.

 

Dh cares less about politics than I do, but he cares much less on the same side. That's doable. 

 

 

Just because this is a pet peeve of mine and because I know, Sadie, that you will not take this personally, but as a general statement...

 

 

There is no such thing cancelling out each others' votes!!  You are each independent persons with the right and privilege to vote.  Your vote is your voice!  His vote doesn't devalue yours, nor yours his.  Every voice gets a chance to be noted.  It is important to exercise your right to express your voice.  When people don't -- for whatever reasons -- they are letting others do all the speaking for them.  They are giving up their public voice.  As a citizen, as a WOMAN, never give up your voice to others.  Roar, woman! ROAR! 

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Well, you're right; this is why it is an unpleasant spot to be in. Again - steering away from mentioning any real issue - it is usually because I think the issue at hand doesn't affect me, that it doesn't harm me if this is illegal or that is legal, so I think there doesn't need to be a law over XYZ issue. But he does, IMO, partly because of where he gets his news. And those news organizations use FEAR - they project that if this or that is legal or illegal, the sky will fall for sure. I don't buy that, and it bugs me that the man I love buys this.

 

Quill, I think that fear is what is causing the disrespect.  He tried respectfully to tell you that the world is ending soon and you didn't get it and now he is desperate enough to try in less respectful ways.  He probably is desperately to maintain his respect for you despite your being so thick as to not understand how desperate the situation is.  (You know I don't really think you are thick, of course.  I have a pretty good idea of where you stand and think you are being entirely wise and resonable. : ) )  Unfortunately, I can't think of any good way out of this situation.  I don't want to be doom and gloom here, but I think unless his candidate wins the election, his news station is going to preach even more fear and things will get even worse.  Maybe you could say that you are sorry, that you don't have the emotional energy to deal with politics right now and you understand that he is scared but please can he not scare you too because you are feeling really fragile right now.  Maybe you can appeal to his chivalrous side?

 

Nan

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I agree with this.

 

You simply cannot talk about it. My grandma had to do this. She would say, "I need to clean such and such" or "I'm going to go check on the flowers" and just leave.

 

I think you will need to do that.

 

 

Ick, I hope she doesn't. 

 

It really bothers me to my core for women to think they can't express their opinions, and even more so that they can't be honest. If you don't want to discuss it, that's perfectly fine and legit, but why on earth wouldn't you just say so?

 

I don't think this discussion is going anywhere, so I'm done for now.

 

Acting like I'm naive or don't understand the issues is insulting. I'm not talking to you about this again until you are ready to respect my intelligence and self-agency.

 

You're being an ass. I'm going to Starbucks.

 

Don't deflect with flowers and cleaning. Speak the truth. Use your voice. 

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Ick, I hope she doesn't. 

 

It really bothers me to my core for women to think they can't express their opinions, and even more so that they can't be honest. If you don't want to discuss it, that's perfectly fine and legit, but why on earth wouldn't you just say so?

 

I don't think this discussion is going anywhere, so I'm done for now.

 

Acting like I'm naive or don't understand the issues is insulting. I'm not talking to you about this again until you are ready to respect my intelligence and self-agency.

 

You're being an ass. I'm going to Starbucks.

 

Don't deflect with flowers and cleaning. Speak the truth. Use your voice. 

 

I would suggest the same to my own male partner, LOL! I hear what you are saying, but honestly, you could really get a divorce over this stuff. The political is personal and the personal is political. I suspect that this election, if we are going to fight about it while doing the dishes, is going to cause some families to need new china.

 

I do hear you--a woman shouldn't do this for a man, and I agree. I think whoever has more sense in their head and the stronger desire to see their marriage through at the moment, should do it for the person who is clearly making an idiot of themselves. 

 

My partner once walked out when we had an argument about genetically modified foods. He said he had to do grocery shopping. He was not able to discuss it civilly any more and it was partly my fault. Later we apologized and we have not discussed it since!

 

And for the record--nobody, not his dad, stepdad, mom, my mom, his sister, his brother in law, his cousin, me, or his kids can make him see reason. Me making my voice heard will do nothing at all.

 

So, that's where I'm coming from on that one.

 

But I got my vote hahaha!

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You're being an ass.

 

Honestly... if he is usually an ass, and she calls him out on it, she'd better have a lawyer ready.

 

I finally called out my ex-husband on other issues and believe me, it went downhill quickly.

 

Start with the garden and if he follows you THEN you say--"I have tried to get away from your abusive language peacefully and you are insisting. So now I'm going to stand up for myself and say you are WRONG AND GET AWAY FROM ME I DON'T LIKE YOU RIGHT NOW!"

 

(Even in that situation with my husband cheating on me I did not call him an ass, FTR... I think that's a terrible idea.)

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Honestly... if he is usually an ass, and she calls him out on it, she'd better have a lawyer ready.

 

I finally called out my ex-husband on other issues and believe me, it went downhill quickly.

 

Start with the garden and if he follows you THEN you say--"I have tried to get away from your abusive language peacefully and you are insisting. So now I'm going to stand up for myself and say you are WRONG AND GET AWAY FROM ME I DON'T LIKE YOU RIGHT NOW!"

 

(Even in that situation with my husband cheating on me I did not call him an ass, FTR... I think that's a terrible idea.)

Really? Wow you have great restraint. I said many bad things, I remember that time as me falling to my knees in grief and despair.

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I think that if it is primarily election season that causes this turmoil it may be best to try to remember you love each other more than you love any candidate or political issue.    

 

This isn't to say that your views don't matter, or that his don't matter, or that politics doesn't reach so many aspects of our lives.  It is to say that there are other topics in life (even if they are affected by politics indirectly) that you can continue to focus on.  

 

You have mentioned that he has made concessions to you and perhaps if you can acknowledge to him that you realize he isn't having as much political discourse as he may like but that you are having more political discourse than you would like ~

 

I know it's terribly simplistic, but two conflict resolution ideas: can you both agree during your morning hour that as soon as feelings start getting hurt or tempers start rising that political discussion instantly ends and the channel gets switched to the cooking shows?   And, I also think if you can let him know (or keep reminding him) that you have heard his point (the sky is falling) and you appreciate his thoughtfulness (he's not apathetic) this may help him realize he doesn't have to 'yell so loudly' because you have heard him.  

 

? hope it helps ? (:

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I try so hard to not have the discussions at all.  Is there really anything new to say?  On the positive side, things got better after our primary was over.

 

We don't turn on the TV, so it doesn't invade our home all the time.  And most of the stories seen on the internet are some sort of extreme nonsense that isn't worth talking about.

 

In a few weeks we will have a visitor who is famously outrageously political.  I want to go hide.

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And honestly, it was just as bad 4 years ago and 8 years ago and 12 years ago etc.  Maybe worse, because back in the day, we had headline type news stations running on the TV all the time and there was no avoiding it.  Plus I had not learned to discipline my tongue as well.  :)

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Some things I say to try to keep it civil:

  • I hear you and understand you.
  • In general, we have the same interests, concerns, beliefs.
  • That comes across as disrespectful to me.  Please don't say it again.
  • I heard that, but experience has taught me not to believe everything I hear in the media.
  • We are not going to change each other's minds today, so let's do something more rewarding.
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Honestly... if he is usually an ass, and she calls him out on it, she'd better have a lawyer ready.

 

I finally called out my ex-husband on other issues and believe me, it went downhill quickly.

 

Start with the garden and if he follows you THEN you say--"I have tried to get away from your abusive language peacefully and you are insisting. So now I'm going to stand up for myself and say you are WRONG AND GET AWAY FROM ME I DON'T LIKE YOU RIGHT NOW!"

 

(Even in that situation with my husband cheating on me I did not call him an ass, FTR... I think that's a terrible idea.)

Well, we don't normally call each other bad names, but I have no problem with bluntly telling him I am not talking to him/about whatever subject anymore.

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And honestly, it was just as bad 4 years ago and 8 years ago and 12 years ago etc. Maybe worse, because back in the day, we had headline type news stations running on the TV all the time and there was no avoiding it. Plus I had not learned to discipline my tongue as well. :)

In my own personal household, political tension has never been so high nor as rancorous. There are candidates who are despised by their own party. It is different from past elections.

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I do think he sees it as a problem because he has such a negative view of the future of our country. So, therefore if I am not being part of the "solution," then I am part of the problem, KWIM?

 

I do think he enjoys the argument, though, certainly much more than I do. Peace is my middle name. I hate conflict.

 

I am upset that he does not respect my POV; that he doesn't (it seems) believe that I can intelligently and reasonably come to a conclusion that is opposite his on a given issue. This morning, he said I need to vote for Candidate X. I said no, I am never voting for that person. If I don't, says he, I throw my vote away. I say my vote is for a candidate I can support and it can affect the outcome however it affects the outcome. Well, he says, if this candidate does become our party representative, you HAVE to vote for that candidate. I say, no, I will not. I will not vote for a candidate whom I do not support; not for primary, not for general. So, I don't care, he says, about the future of this country, because if (so-and-so), it is (all going to hell in a picnic basket). This will happen, that will happen, the Apocalyse is coming.

 

I can't stand it.

 

I haven't read all of the responses, so I apologize if this has already been said.  I would try to get your husband to switch to a different news source. 

 

I have an extended family member who became much more political once he retired and had time to watch 24 hour news stations and listen to talk radio.  I think these programs have diminished his critical thinking skills and prevent him from acknowledging the validity of a different point of view.  It is sad.

 

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I haven't read all of the responses, so I apologize if this has already been said. I would try to get your husband to switch to a different news source.

 

I have an extended family member who became much more political once he retired and had time to watch 24 hour news stations and listen to talk radio. I think these programs have diminished his critical thinking skills and prevent him from acknowledging the validity of a different point of view. It is sad.

 

Yes. It is sad.

 

I can't affect what he listens to on the radio because he is a contractor and listens to it all day long. It is a big part of the problem, I agree. He's not going to change this unless he comes to his own epiphany about it.

 

I noticed something this morning and it is something I plan to discuss with him when I am in a better position to discuss it calmly. Here's what I notice: some news item comes on TV while we are both sitting there. He already has an opinion about it and, I believe, it is the opinion he has already heard expressed on the news show he listens too. So, he makes a statement about this news bit. He isn't asking my opinion about it, nor is he seemingly even aware that a totally reasonable other position can exist. He just already has his iron-solid view about it.

 

So, as a totally absurd example, let's say there is a news bit that the city is going to paint all the public trashcans pink, in honor of breast cancer survivors. He will see that news bit and NOT say, "what do you think of that, honey? It seems like a waste of money to me, but I don't know...maybe a breast cancer survivor would feel honored that they would do this. Or maybe not - some breast cancer survivors don't like all this Pink everything. What do you think?" He already has his strongly negative opinion about it and will comment that way. So my options are:

 

1) say nothing. In fact, maybe I have no opinion about the pink cans. In such a case, it may not bother me to say nothing.

2) say something. Try to show that there is another possible way of looking at it.

3) say something strongly. Go to the meta-debate, which is that he already has an obstinate view and does he just want to bait a fight? Or does he just think there is only one correct opinion here?

4) never sit with him while news is on. Not conducive to a good relationship.

 

ETA:5) agree with him. Sometimes I might.

 

ETA: typo that changed my meaning

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Yes. It is sad.

 

I can't affect what he listens to on the radio because he is a contractor and listens to it all day long. It is a big part of the problem, I agree. He's not going to change this unless he comes to his own epiphany about it.

 

I noticed something this morning and it is something I plan to discuss with him when I am in a better position to discuss it calmly. Here's what I notice: some news item comes on TV while we are both sitting there. He already has an opinion about it and, I believe, it is the opinion he has already heard expressed on the news show he listens too. So, he makes a statement about this news bit. He isn't asking my opinion about it, nor is he seemingly even aware that a totally reasonable other position can exist. He just already has his iron-solid view about it.

 

So, as a totally absurd example, let's say there is a news bit that the city is going to paint all the public trashcans pink, in honor of breast cancer survivors. He will see that news bit and NOT say, "what do you think of that, honey? It seems like a waste of money to me, but I don't know...maybe a breast cancer survivor would feel honored that they would do this. Or maybe not - some breast cancer survivors don't like all this Pink everything. What do you think?" He already has his strongly negative opinion about it and will comment that way. So my options are:

 

1) say nothing. In fact, maybe I have no opinion about the pink cans. In such a case, it may not bother me to say nothing.

2) say something. Try to show that there is another possible way of looking at it.

3) say something strongly. Go to the meta-debate, which is that he already has an obstinate view and does he just want to bait a fight? Or does he just think there is only one correct opinion here?

4) never sit with him while news is on. Not conducive to a good relationship.

 

ETA:5) agree with him. Sometimes I might.

 

ETA: typo that changed my meaning

 

In that case I'd go with number 2, and say what you think. OR say "I don't agree, but don't want to fight about it now. Want some more coffee?" That way you aren't fighting, but also not hiding your feelings. 

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Yes. It is sad.

 

I can't affect what he listens to on the radio because he is a contractor and listens to it all day long. It is a big part of the problem, I agree. He's not going to change this unless he comes to his own epiphany about it.

 

I noticed something this morning and it is something I plan to discuss with him when I am in a better position to discuss it calmly. Here's what I notice: some news item comes on TV while we are both sitting there. He already has an opinion about it and, I believe, it is the opinion he has already heard expressed on the news show he listens too. So, he makes a statement about this news bit. He isn't asking my opinion about it, nor is he seemingly even aware that a totally reasonable other position can exist. He just already has his iron-solid view about it.

 

So, as a totally absurd example, let's say there is a news bit that the city is going to paint all the public trashcans pink, in honor of breast cancer survivors. He will see that news bit and NOT say, "what do you think of that, honey? It seems like a waste of money to me, but I don't know...maybe a breast cancer survivor would feel honored that they would do this. Or maybe not - some breast cancer survivors don't like all this Pink everything. What do you think?" He already has his strongly negative opinion about it and will comment that way. So my options are:

 

1) say nothing. In fact, maybe I have no opinion about the pink cans. In such a case, it may not bother me to say nothing.

2) say something. Try to show that there is another possible way of looking at it.

3) say something strongly. Go to the meta-debate, which is that he already has an obstinate view and does he just want to bait a fight? Or does he just think there is only one correct opinion here?

4) never sit with him while news is on. Not conducive to a good relationship.

 

ETA:5) agree with him. Sometimes I might.

 

ETA: typo that changed my meaning

 

I would choose option 1, even if I had an opinion about it, if I felt that by saying something I'd prolong the unpleasantness in the room.

 

I mean really, politics is a game, similar to football.  To most people most of the time - during elections - it's all about sacking the quarterback, intercepting the pass, blocking the progress of the other side.  [Very little of it is about important principles, upon which we all mostly agree.]  But ultimately the game ends and life goes on.  Let life go on.  Don't let the media and the politicians turn your home into a gridiron.  It isn't worth it.

 

I came up with the football analogy when my mom was an elected official.  Elections are just horrible for everyone involved.  We need to be able to distance ourselves for our own peace and sanity.

 

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High stress and panic make people sound funny, unlike their usual selves.  I don't think it will calm the situation down or relieve any tension for you to discuss the fact that he is sounding disrespectful.  He's got his head up and locked, in panic mode.  He isn't thinking straight, either about politics or yoiur relationship.  If you calmly tell him he is misbehaving, I don't think it will do anything but damage your relationship.  If you have a full blown temper tantrum complete with sobs over how you can't deal with politics at the moment, and how scared you are that it is going to drive the two of you apart, you might break through his panic and make an impression, sort of like when you do that with children who have done something way, way out of line, the sort of thing that sends you into a panic over both your parenting choices and everyone's future.  That isn't something you can do unless you truly are panicking, though, so that is out as an option.  What would you do if your husband were very sick and began doing what he is currently doing?  Rather than calling him names, you'd make allowances for his illness and just try to smooth things over until the time when he was in his right mind again.  Panicking people often are irrational and unable to reason.  (That's why anyone who wants to get people to do something unreasonable (like some news organizations) likes to stir up fear and panic.  But you know that.)  Anyway, I think your best option is to temporarily smooth things over and avoid conflict until you manage to shut down the source of the fear.  I think one of the attractions of fear-causing news programs is boredom.  Can you give him something else that is so exciting and absorbing that he is willing to stop being poisoned by his current news programs?

 

Nan

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Yes. It is sad.

 

I can't affect what he listens to on the radio because he is a contractor and listens to it all day long. It is a big part of the problem, I agree. He's not going to change this unless he comes to his own epiphany about it.

 

I noticed something this morning and it is something I plan to discuss with him when I am in a better position to discuss it calmly. Here's what I notice: some news item comes on TV while we are both sitting there. He already has an opinion about it and, I believe, it is the opinion he has already heard expressed on the news show he listens too. So, he makes a statement about this news bit. He isn't asking my opinion about it, nor is he seemingly even aware that a totally reasonable other position can exist. He just already has his iron-solid view about it.

 

So, as a totally absurd example, let's say there is a news bit that the city is going to paint all the public trashcans pink, in honor of breast cancer survivors. He will see that news bit and NOT say, "what do you think of that, honey? It seems like a waste of money to me, but I don't know...maybe a breast cancer survivor would feel honored that they would do this. Or maybe not - some breast cancer survivors don't like all this Pink everything. What do you think?" He already has his strongly negative opinion about it and will comment that way. So my options are:

 

1) say nothing. In fact, maybe I have no opinion about the pink cans. In such a case, it may not bother me to say nothing.

2) say something. Try to show that there is another possible way of looking at it.

3) say something strongly. Go to the meta-debate, which is that he already has an obstinate view and does he just want to bait a fight? Or does he just think there is only one correct opinion here?

4) never sit with him while news is on. Not conducive to a good relationship.

 

ETA:5) agree with him. Sometimes I might.

 

ETA: typo that changed my meaning

 

:grouphug:  I would probably choose option 1 and try to change the subject to something else. 

 

I have two very good friends who were ardent followers of a fellow who ended up creating his own web-based tv program for his listeners once his network show got cancelled.  These friends both came to the realization that watching/listening to this guy was causing them too much distress and negatively affecting their views and reactions with others.  They both quit watching him, and I can, once again, have a civil/rational political discussion with them.

 

Hopefully, your H will come to the same conclusion, which probably won't happen until after the election.  Unfortunately, these pundits portray anyone that has a differing political opinion as a naive idiot who needs to be enlightened.  It is tough having rational conversations when people are under their influences.  :grouphug:

 

 

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