I'm struggling with my philosophy of a homeschooled highschool education

[Chrysalis Academy]

Rose, tell me what you think. I know you have struggled with similar issues.  Have you found your own path?

 

We're working on it. I can empathize so much with what you've written, and I'm so grateful that you started this thread, I have really benefited from the discussion.

 

We're just getting started with 9th grade, so launching all new classes, a new way of tracking time, a new weekly to-do list that gives dd more control over what she does when - as long as she gets it all done.  We've also made her primary passions - theater and creative writing - into credits, which has taken away a lot of the tension about not having enough time for those things (because of too much school work scheduled by me).  I think it's going to work, although this is just the 2nd day with the new stuff fully implemented - she was sick for 10 days, so we're just getting back on track.  One of the things we're doing differently is tracking time rather than counting days. She has a list with all her weekly assignments plus her extracurriculars/electives listed, and she jots down the time she spends and I throw it into a spreadsheet. This is going to let me "package up" credits in a flexible way, depending on how much time she spends on various things.  It could shake out a couple of different ways, but the ball is in her court, as long as she racks up enough hours in the required/college prep credits.  

 

I like the system, I think it's going to be great . . . but I'm having a little trouble trusting it at this point! She only worked about 3 hours yesterday, plus two hours of rehearsal.  Today was 4 hours of schoolwork, plus two of rehearsal. That doesn't feel like enough to me. It will be interesting to see if she ends up with a lot of work left to do on Friday or the weekend. My job will be to enforce the agreement - you get to work when you want, but you have to get it all done.  She may have a couple of school weekends before she figures it out that she needs to work more each week day.  But I have to let the process work itself out the way we've agreed, not nag her every day, leave it to her to make daily choices and to see, and live with the consequences.  It's hard!! But I feel like it's important to help her learn this *before* she starts DE.  

 

My expectations are high, probably too high.  She'd rather have more free time, much of which she spends on her own writing projects, and do the minimum required for school.  So there is tension there, and it's important to me that this tension not grow into conflict. Creating a Theater Arts credit and a Creative Writing elective are really helping me to have more realistic expectations and to honor her desire to spend significant chunks of time on those things.

 

I'm also still figuring out how long things take her to do.  I really resonated with the discussion about whether kids should be "penalized" from their point of view by being given more work when they finish quickly.  Quickly and high quality, not quickly and sloppy! But while I don't think they should be forced to do more just because they can, I do struggle with how much is enough.  How many books? How many papers? I don't know. Still figuring it all out. 

[quark]

The scenario as I hear it from friends in top CA private (and public) schools is very depressing. The parents all throw their hands up and say "what else can we do?". It's as if they are just going deeper and deeper into a situation they can't see their way out of. There might be a feeling of "we have already invested so much money in this" as well. A friend of mine with a DD in a leading, Ivy League feeder type private school here calls or emails me every few weeks with horror stories. Her DD asks her to enroll her in rigorous sports coaching programs just to keep up with friends. Her DD is in 7th! My friend has refused because she can see how much that will encroach even further into her DD's free time. But people like my friend are not common here. At least I don't think so. My friend recognizes the need for her DD to have down time and to be a kid. I have other friends who also recognize that but won't take a stand because they worry their kids will lose out in the long run.

 

I feel it's such a privilege that we can homeschool and follow DS's goals with minimal worry about him losing sleep or free time. The worry IS there, don't get me wrong. It's not like I don't fall into this pattern of worry. I do that a lot. But I know we can examine motivations with a much clearer head. We can customize. That's the gift we enjoy. We can customize as closely as we can to our kid's learning preferences/ style/ goals AND above all, his physical, emotional and mental health.

 

He is hanging loose now improvising on the piano. Finished several rounds of testing/ quizzes for midterms and just hanging loose. And so excited he can go play a gig tomorrow with his band at a restaurant! Purely for fun. No grades involved. Just pure fun.

 

But even during midterm craziness, we could go out for ice cream, chat with friends, read books and talk about the various reasons why mom doesn't find satire funny while he does or why the media circus is dying down around certain candidates (or it seems like) and keep in touch with what's happening around the world while some of his friends have NO idea what we talk about when we finally get to meet them after months of them not finding time because all of their time is taken up with bookwork/ busywork/ looking good for admissions/ overscheduling.

 

It's so sad. But that's what life has become around here. But when you homeschool, there is that gift of customization. Such a privilege. I can watch this kid laugh, sleep, be silly and yet also put in so much effort towards his goals. It's a gift, Ruth. :grouphug:

[Chrysalis Academy]

As far as what I think about *your* situation . . . 

 

I think that you are an amazing and smart woman, and your ds is an amazing and smart kid, and that your relationship is the most important part of the whole deal.  Making sure that you guys are talking, that you are on the same page about goals and process, it's really important, and requires you to actually have a conversation *about that* specifically.  I can't tell you how many times I have begun to feel exasperated and frustrated because dds aren't meeting some standard that I haven't fully articulated, even to myself.  

 

I think it's important that kids are challenged, and that they experience some things that are difficult and a struggle.  Check, you've got that covered!  But not everything has to be super difficult.  Some things, it's ok to just check off the box, I think?

 

I also think that it's so easy to get sucked into the schooly mentality, and to feel competitive or at least pressure from what the other kids are doing. Maybe some people are totally zen about that, but I confess it, I'm not. I have to constantly remind myself of our goals, our philosophy, and why we started doing this in the first place. 

 

Everything you said that you're grappling with made perfect sense to me. I've had all those thoughts, too.  I think revisiting your philosophy, grappling with it, is exactly the right thing to do.  It's healthy. 

 

You've got to figure this out for the mathy kid - I'll keep working on figuring it out with creative/humanities/writer kid, ok? We'll get through it all together!

[quark]

Rose is so right. I think grappling is healthy. I know that for me personally, I always grow after one of these bouts of worry. I come out of it feeling much clearer and more confident about the paths we have chosen.

 

I just thought of one more thing. So much of our soul searching, I think, comes from looking at quantity. And we always say focus on quality right? But what if you sat down Ruth and wrote a list of all that your DS has accomplished since you started homeschooling or since he became fixated on his math track. Just write it all down. The work he has finished, the different IMO levels cleared, the theorems he has learned, proofs written, books read, lists and lists compiled that you are eager to delve into. All of that adds to a lot. I can bet you it really adds up. And isn't schooly at all. And guess what...all of that is very high quality work too. We know quality is what matters but our minds are hardwired in some way to also worry that we are not hitting quantities. But I think the quantity is there all along. We just went about achieving it in a different way...the high quality way. It's something that happens naturally when you have a kid who loves to learn as your DS does.

 

I don't ever set out for DS to finish reading X number of books a year. I used to try but it didn't work the first few times and I stopped. But at the end of a certain period in time, just from the sheer love of learning, he accomplishes a lot more than I ever give him credit for. A chunk of that is not going to make it to any admissions officer's pile of things to read because DS is just not that kind of kid to promote every single thing he did. But we *know* he did those things and we know the experiences are his to carry with him all his life.

 

Maybe do think about quantity once in a while. The quantity achieved without any planning on your part and via being the amazing kid he is.

[lewelma]

Thanks Rose and Quark for giving me some more to think about.  DS just got 4 forms to fill out for the IMO that are 'urgent', so I'm off to help him with that.  I'll be back later to respond in detail.  :001_smile:

[lewelma]

Well, I just had a lovely conversation with ds about turning the ship around, and this is what we decided:

 

He will only take the maths scholarship exam (perhaps music, but he is not sure).  I told him that he could keep all the money he makes as we will be paying for university

 

He wants to take all the external exams for all the sciences (this surprised me), he thinks he will learn the material better if he is forced to study for an exam. So Biology is now unexpectedly on the list.

 

He would like to do a couple of homeschool humanities courses if they are discussion and reading focused -- probably ethics and philosophy

 

He would like to keep using the correspondence school for English for as long as there are units still left to be done (and there are a LOT)

 

We will start Mandarin back up with his tutor, but only on a trial basis to see if he can get excited about it again.

 

He will not go to university early and will use this extra time to do some volunteer work specifically with the Mathematics Student Association doing Latex mark-up of the exams, writing questions for the exams, and running a lecture series on competition maths in our city

 

I will write up a new schedule for this year, and he will tweak it so that he can own the deadlines.

 

I think that is it.  I did not get to the video game issue as this is kind of a hot button, and I wanted to keep everything upbeat.  It was good. :thumbup1: 

 

Thanks everyone!

[lewelma]

.

Edited April 20, 2016 by lewelma

[regentrude]

lewelma, I think your DS is doing fine. The amount of videogames you describe would be nothing I'd be concerned about. Thinking about math is tiring. He may not work as many hours as the school kids, but as I said before, that does not mean anything for the quality of his education. Everything you describe paints a picture of a balanced education with several strong focus points; he is working on math, a difficult foreign language, music, reads complex books, has physical activities; most of his time seems to be spent on very worthy pursuits - there needs to be time for mindless relaxation.

 

ETA: I see the issue of hours spent on school work coming up repeatedly in your posts. Just to put the issue of time in perspective, I looked up my DD's logs from her homeschool high school days to ensure that I remember correctly. We required six hours of school work per day in 10th grade; that included electives like music. She graduated with an impressive transcript, got into a highly selective school, is doing extremely well in a college with a deservedly tough reputation. So obviously, the amount of time spent in hs was sufficient to achieve high goals. Comparing it to the 8 hours of time kids spend in ps plus the several hours of homework they have nightly would make no sense.

Edited April 20, 2016 by regentrude

[Chrysalis Academy]

Rose is so right. I think grappling is healthy. I know that for me personally, I always grow after one of these bouts of worry. I come out of it feeling much clearer and more confident about the paths we have chosen.

 

I just thought of one more thing. So much of our soul searching, I think, comes from looking at quantity. And we always say focus on quality right? But what if you sat down Ruth and wrote a list of all that your DS has accomplished since you started homeschooling or since he became fixated on his math track. Just write it all down. The work he has finished, the different IMO levels cleared, the theorems he has learned, proofs written, books read, lists and lists compiled that you are eager to delve into. All of that adds to a lot. I can bet you it really adds up. And isn't schooly at all. And guess what...all of that is very high quality work too. We know quality is what matters but our minds are hardwired in some way to also worry that we are not hitting quantities. But I think the quantity is there all along. We just went about achieving it in a different way...the high quality way. It's something that happens naturally when you have a kid who loves to learn as your DS does.

 

I don't ever set out for DS to finish reading X number of books a year. I used to try but it didn't work the first few times and I stopped. But at the end of a certain period in time, just from the sheer love of learning, he accomplishes a lot more than I ever give him credit for. A chunk of that is not going to make it to any admissions officer's pile of things to read because DS is just not that kind of kid to promote every single thing he did. But we *know* he did those things and we know the experiences are his to carry with him all his life.

 

Maybe do think about quantity once in a while. The quantity achieved without any planning on your part and via being the amazing kid he is.

 

Thanks for this, Quark. I've been grappling with the quantity issue a lot in planning.  great points.

[Momto6inIN]

My kids aren't gifted like all of yours, just run of the mill bright and smart and funny, but I just want to say I :wub: this thread. Thanks for sharing and for the encouragement everyone.

[JennW in SoCal]

At some point in the mid-teen/high school years, I stopped scheduling school and instead organized checklists of what needed to be done each week. I left it to my kids to figure out how to use their time, though we stuck to our routine of doing anything "schooly", or anything requiring me, in the morning. I stopped micro-managing their screen time, though would still invoke my parental right to limit or revoke screen time if needed. My kids put in far fewer hours on pure textbook academics than most other kids on this board, yet they were both very successful in their chosen college paths.

 

High school is terrifying because of the mindset that everything "suddenly counts" and the terror that the decisions and choices we make might "close doors" to our kids. We know we have to prove to some anonymous, all powerful admissions committee that our educational choices produced students as capable as those over-scheduled kids from brick and mortar schools. It usually translates into a panic-stricken turn to traditional, cookie cutter educational choices, AP this and that, and counting hours spent on each subject. 

 

Or it is terrifying because our kids are veering off on their own paths, and all those lovingly crafted plans we've made over the years have to be abandoned. The best high school path for that kid might be something we'd never imagine, something that makes us uncomfortable.  We scramble to check off all the subject boxes needed for a transcript, but the real education for that child happens far outside a textbook or standard course.

 

But as Regentrude and 8 and I can attest, students who follow non-traditional paths still get accepted to, and succeed in, college.  I would suggest our non-traditional students do extra well in college because they start with a positive mindset, an excitement about being challenged and getting to work with mentors who are experts in a field. They are engaged in class and their professors notice.  It seems a cliche to say my biggest goal in homeschooling was to nurture a love of learning, but you know what? I'm glad it was my goal because my kids have clearly, unarguably, benefitted from it, and best of all, have thanked me for it.

 

Lol, I'm not entirely sure how this relates to the thread as a whole. I started thinking about teens playing video games and wound up on my non-traditional high school soap box! Ah well, I'm clicking "add reply"

[Dmmetler]

I'd be interrogating the idea that 'gifted children should do more'.

 

Gifted children CAN do more. The 'should' is problematic imo, and honestly, has been a great source of stress to me in my adult life.

 

Again, just my opinion.

 

Is there any chance he could go to uni early ? It sounds like you're worried about him drifting. I think drifting can be a potential problem, though from your description I don't see 'drifting' but balance. Would there be more buy in with the hoop jumping if it moved him to a goal more congruent with his sense of who he is and where he is going ?

I would point out that he IS doing more-in his specific area of interest/expertise. As smart and advanced as he is, if he were just doing the minimum, even with higher content, I'd be concerned that he'd risk flaming out at the college level. But all that IMO prep and practice has deadlines and time pressure and all those skills that normally kids get from the higher level classes, and that has value too.

 

FWIW, I have the same concerns about DD. Not only is most of her mental energy spent outside of regular school work, but it's largely in an area where there aren't many honors and awards that are easily comparable. It's hard to look at a kid who is SO good at science and realize that, yeah, she's not going to take top honors at Google or ISEF or get a Davidson Fellowship-and that meanwhile, while she's out catching rat snakes and taking scale clippings to track the spread of snake fungal disease to report to the animal epidemiology lab at the state vet school, other kids are passing her in obvious achievements.

[8filltheheart]

I really like your post, Sadie. It is why I trust my dd's choices so much. It really is irrelevant to her what her transcript says bc she has goals and that is where her eyes are set.

[Arcadia]

But is it fair for gifted kids to do fewer hours and achieve more? Does it prepare them for life in competitive fields? Don't know.

I did the 'A' levels system but out of the two years system, I only studied a month before exams for the math and sciences. The 'A' levels science laboratory exams required zero studying. So technically, I "played" for two years doing projects and competitions I liked.

At least one of my many cousins is more academically gifted and did not even study before the exams. Life isn't fair even for siblings and cousins, so it is something I acknowledge but don't dwell on.

 

Are the gifted kids resting on their laurels? I look around and don't see complacent gifted kids locally. Whatever hard work they may not need to put in to get a great GPA, is usually balance out by grit/resilence/slog elsewhere.

 

I don't know about your younger son but I would say your older son's personal growth in his quest for IMO would stand him in good stead for life in competitive fields.

 

ETA:

I didn't had to study hard in college either. However do fewer hours and achieve more was very useful during my engineering internship with a norwegian MNC. It was not about being academically gifted but about being able to perform well under deadlines stress at literally the 11th hour due to client's last minute requests.

Edited April 20, 2016 by Arcadia

[quark]

It's always hard to see our kids go unrewarded in a way we would like. I honestly think that is just part of life, hard as it is. And I firmly believe that kids like yours and Ruth's, who are already talented, intrinsically motivated and encouraged in that motivation, will gain intellectual and other rewards. 

 

I am not very susceptible to the idea that school and the school model is doing a wonderful job of graduating learning-healthy students though :) So that helps me, personally, to rebut the idea that the grass is greener. 

 

Well said.

 

I think the pity is also that the school model blinds many families to the fact that they don't know the grass isn't greener. And sometimes, there is more to life than praise and honors and awards and measuring ever upwards. It's a quieter, less applauded life but also a less scrutinized one. A life of happy anonymity!

 

There is one worry though that I don't know how to assuage and might be Ruth's worry too. Sometimes, achievements lead to peer relationships that can be very rewarding. We lead a very quiet, unassuming life with a child who could be achieving a lot more but chooses not to. He is happy in his own skin and I am very happy for him that he is. But he is so very lonely too. There is no one he knows that can hold a conversation with him in the topics he loves. He always has to adapt to his audience. I know it's a good skill, learning to adapt and know and adjust your thoughts to your audience. But he has to do this every single time. While he does know some people who will get him, they have their lives to lead as husbands, fathers, teachers, grandfathers...they are all much older. If he would compete in a national math contest, he could meet more kids who are like he is, but he doesn't want to compete and is so opposed to it. One of the reasons we are considering the early graduation route is to give him access to his people sooner because he is going to be too lonely for too long if expected to wait longer to take the regular route to meet them.

 

[Chrysalis Academy]

Well said.

 

I think the pity is also that the school model blinds many families to the fact that they don't know the grass isn't greener. And sometimes, there is more to life than praise and honors and awards and measuring ever upwards. It's a quieter, less applauded life but also a less scrutinized one. A life of happy anonymity!

 

There is one worry though that I don't know how to assuage and might be Ruth's worry too. Sometimes, achievements lead to peer relationships that can be very rewarding. We lead a very quiet, unassuming life with a child who could be achieving a lot more but chooses not to. He is happy in his own skin and I am very happy for him that he is. But he is so very lonely too. There is no one he knows that can hold a conversation with him in the topics he loves. He always has to adapt to his audience. I know it's a good skill, learning to adapt and know and adjust your thoughts to your audience. But he has to do this every single time. While he does know some people who will get him, they have their lives to lead as husbands, fathers, teachers, grandfathers...they are all much older. If he would compete in a national math contest, he could meet more kids who are like he is, but he doesn't want to compete and is so opposed to it. One of the reasons we are considering the early graduation route is to give him access to his people sooner because he is going to be too lonely for too long if expected to wait longer to take the regular route to meet them.

 

:001_wub:  I love this post. I am sad for dd13 that she doesn't really have a "tribe."  She has horse friends and theater friends, but they are pretty superficial friendships, really, and the kids can be very wrapped up in continuing the drama of their school day into rehearsal, and then there is all the pop-culture references that dd doesn't get because she doesn't watch TV or whatever, and she really doesn't care to get.  She yearns for friends who want to be creative, create stories, share their real thoughts rather than try to create the coolest image and then hide behind it.  She's also really, really mature for her age, always has been, she could pass for 17 in a heartbeat (physically and emotionally/mentally). So, she's lonely. I tell her she will find her tribe some day, and I hope she will.  But, even though she clocks a fair number of hours per week around other people, she's still lonely.  Sometimes it makes my heart hurt. Even though I love her more than life, I know that I'm not enough. Nor do I want to be! I want her to find her peers, It's just tough, because the 13 year olds in her world are not her peeps, and there are other perils of a 13 year old hanging out with kids her "mental" age - 17 or 18 - and I really don't want to go there yet.

[quark]

So much of what you said resonates, Rose. :grouphug: It's so hard. It is an in-between stage. I know it will get better. But it is sad to see it while it is happening. Mom of another very mature 13yo here who looks like a 17yo. Totally get it, my friend.

[lewelma]

Well said.

 

I think the pity is also that the school model blinds many families to the fact that they don't know the grass isn't greener. And sometimes, there is more to life than praise and honors and awards and measuring ever upwards. It's a quieter, less applauded life but also a less scrutinized one. A life of happy anonymity!

I just about cried over this one. You are so insightful and have reminded me of ideas long forgotten. Praise and honors and awards teach kids to measure their self worth based on someone else's evaluation. :crying: 

 

My ds loves his quiet contemplative life.  I think he would like recognition which the IMO does not give him here, but after our conversation yesterday it is clear to me that he has no interest in doing what it would take to get the recognition he has the capability to gain. I can accept that.  

 

There is one worry though that I don't know how to assuage and might be Ruth's worry too. . There is no one he knows that can hold a conversation with him in the topics he loves. ....If he would compete in a national math contest, he could meet more kids who are like he is,

You may remember from all those years ago, that we got into the competition route for the socializing. The camp seemed to be a good place for ds to meet kids like him, so I totally know what you mean by achievement leading to peers. However, until this year he has always been the only one from our city, so no long term friends.  But now.... 3 other kids!  They are meeting at the library to study next week. How exciting to be doing something that normal kids do.  

 

For the past 2 years DS has had one good friend who is his intellectual peer, but this student is very narrowly focused, so there is never any discussion of literature or music or philosophy. I am hoping that ds will find more soul mates when he starts the city-wide orchestra next year and the Mathematics Student Association. Both of these groups are competitive to enter, so more likely to have peers for ds.  

 

Finding peers has always been a hard road for my older, and I think a very good reason to start uni early, Quark.

 

ETA: I see Rose and I were posting at the same time, and both had a similar emotional response to your lovely post. 

Edited April 20, 2016 by lewelma

[lewelma]

My kids aren't gifted like all of yours, just run of the mill bright and smart and funny, but I just want to say I :wub: this thread. Thanks for sharing and for the encouragement everyone.

 

Thanks for this.  I was very nervous about being misunderstood, so I am glad that people took the time to really understand my fears and concerns without jumping to conclusions. 

[lewelma]

lewelma, I think your DS is doing fine. The amount of videogames you describe would be nothing I'd be concerned about. Thinking about math is tiring. He may not work as many hours as the school kids, but as I said before, that does not mean anything for the quality of his education. Everything you describe paints a picture of a balanced education with several strong focus points; --- there needs to be time for mindless relaxation.

 

ETA: I see the issue of hours spent on school work coming up repeatedly in your posts. 

 

Thanks Regentrude.  I have tried very hard over the past 3 years to allow ds to specialize while concurrently keeping him balanced.  I'm glad you noticed. :001_smile: I ran a thread on the accelerated board many years ago about specialization where you and some others argued for keeping balance.  Clearly I listened, and I am glad I did.

 

 I understand the need for mindless relaxation, really I do.  And I know that video games fill this role for ds. The more tricky aspect is that my younger boy is not nearly so driven and is not of the age where I feel comfortable allowing him to make his own choices on screen time.  So some of the problem I have with my older son's video games is that it is negatively impacting my younger son.  Kind of tricky actually because the boys play these games together and get great joy from them.

 

I also feel like there has to be *something* else he can do for mindless relaxation.  But maybe not in today's world. 

[quark]

I just about cried over this one. You are so insightful and have reminded me of ideas long forgotten. Praise and honors and awards teach kids to measure their self worth based on someone else's evaluation. :crying: 

[ ...]

 

ETA: I see Rose and I were posting at the same time, and both had a similar emotional response to your lovely post. 

 

Aw Ruth, :grouphug:.

 

You, Rose and I and several others here...we are all in similar boats. I count myself lucky to be sharing this space with you wonderfully, wise parents.

 

 

[lewelma]

At some point in the mid-teen/high school years, I stopped scheduling school and instead organized checklists of what needed to be done each week.

 

This is where we are, but honestly it is not going so well. DS *always* priortizes math and then runs out of time for his other subjects. And there is only one exam in each subject at the correspondence school for a lot of these subjects, so I think that it is easy for ds to say that his competition math needs to take priority because there is a math exam this month but the Chemistry exam is not until November. There are simply no intra-annual requirements unless we make them, and the ones I make, he does not keep. I'm going to remake the schedule *again* since he has missed a bunch of my deadlines and now has all this IMO prep, and he said that he will tweak the schedule and own the mommy-made intra-annual deadlines.  We will see. I still need to keep an eye on all this.  It is definitely not, here are your annual schedules for 5 subjects, see you in November.  But then the problem is, he wants and at the same time does not want me to keep an eye on him. 

 

I stopped micro-managing their screen time, though would still invoke my parental right to limit or revoke screen time if needed.

 

This is what he has requested, but as I said upthread it is having negative repercussions to my younger.

 

High school is terrifying because of the mindset that everything "suddenly counts" and the terror that the decisions and choices we make might "close doors" to our kids.

Terror is right. Luckily my ds has guaranteed entrance to any university in NZ given his exam results. The question becomes will one of these universities actually educate him at his level? So I am trying to keep doors open for if he wants to go overseas. Right now he feels strongly NO, but he is not going to university full time for 2.5 years. And kids grow up a lot between 15 and 18, so I don't want to burn bridges now.

 

It seems a cliche to say my biggest goal in homeschooling was to nurture a love of learning, but you know what? I'm glad it was my goal because my kids have clearly, unarguably, benefitted from it, and best of all, have thanked me for it.

This is where I had definitely lost my way. Being surrounded by all my tutor kids and all their assessments, and then having the correspondence school teachers tell ds to take lower level assessments because "you should get credit for the work you have done." And finally having the kids with the highest exam marks interviewed on TV. Well, it is easy to lose your way when being bombarded with school-based thinking rather than education-based thinking.

Edited April 20, 2016 by lewelma

[lewelma]

FWIW, I have the same concerns about DD. Not only is most of her mental energy spent outside of regular school work, but it's largely in an area where there aren't many honors and awards that are easily comparable.

 

It's hard to look at a kid who is SO good at science and realize that, yeah, she's not going to take top honors at Google or ISEF or get a Davidson Fellowship-and that meanwhile, while she's out catching rat snakes and taking scale clippings to track the spread of snake fungal disease to report to the animal epidemiology lab at the state vet school, other kids are passing her in obvious achievements.

 

Yes. This.  I think that to come out on top of objective evaluation you need to be smart, hard working, passionate, AND be willing to play the game.  I think homeschooling by its very nature discourages kids from playing the game. So a number of us have kids with the first three traits but missing the fourth. Until about a month ago, I sincerely did not think my ds needed to play the game to get the accolades. Now, I know that I was wrong. It is just an attitude shift for me and dh. 

Edited April 20, 2016 by lewelma

[lewelma]

Idk. Motivational theory would suggest that a teen has to internalize the need for honors and awards in order for them to start chasing those honors and awards - and given what we know about the value of intrinsic motivation, or the higher end of the extrinsic scale, I don't really see the utility of trying to get kids who are already following intrinsic interests  involved in what is basically a motivational downgrade at this age.

Interestingly, when we had our conversation yesterday, ds decided that he *wanted* to do the Biology exam because he needed the extrinsic motivation to get the job done.  He doesn't need the credits but he wants the knowledge. So the exam will act as his motivation.  He has no interest in doing the scholarship exams because it is just more pressure, not actually any additional learning.

 

I am not very susceptible to the idea that school and the school model is doing a wonderful job of graduating learning-healthy students though :) So that helps me, personally, to rebut the idea that the grass is greener.

I'm conflicted. I don't want *my* kids in the local schools even though they are the best in the country, because I think they are pressure cookers for the high achieving kids and there is a history of bullying. However, I will say that most of my more average students are doing well in the environment, enjoying the camaraderie, the sports, the clubs, the awards, the independence, the teachers. You do both gain and lose no matter which educational path you chose.

[lewelma]

Goodness, I'm having a conversation with myself.  :tongue_smilie:  Can you guys tell that we are in the middle of school holidays and I have time to burn on soul searching.  :thumbup1:

[Arcadia]

So some of the problem I have with my older son's video games is that it is negatively impacting my younger son. Kind of tricky actually because the boys play these games together and get great joy from them.

Is there something your younger boy like that your older boy can do with him? Sometimes it is kind of tough when something siblings enjoy doing together has a negative impact.

 

For us rationing screen time for my younger boy still works as both boys like to draw silly comics or build silly contraptions together.

 

ETA:

The IGCSE and the 'A' levels exams were the kind of exams where you (general) could game the system. The standardised tests in the US are also pretty much game the system variety if someone like me don't want to slog. The last standardised test I took was GMAT and I pretty much gave the answers I think the examiner wants without caring if the questions were well thought out.

 

ETA:

As homeschoolers, we (some locals) actually play the test/exam game more as a convenient substitute to a B&M middle school transcript for applying to academic programs and also for dual enrollment purposes.

Edited April 20, 2016 by Arcadia

[8filltheheart]

Quark, Rose, and Ruth,

 

My kids are very much in a similar situation.  They do have friends, but they are friends, not deep relationships.  They have learned to find common ground in other areas of interests other than their particular area of focus.  Even at college ds doesn't hang out with "physics or math" geeks.  His friends cross a broad spectrum of majors.  They talk theology, politics, philosophy.  They play board games, ultimate frisbee, etc.  He is an extreme extrovers, so outgoing friendships are important to him.

 

Dd is an introvert.  She is happy having 1 person to sit and talk with.  I don't know that she will have any easier time finding a "soul mate" kind of friend at college than she has in the past.  She is just isn't a social bunny.  She keeps her circle small.   (These 2 are complete opposites!)  

 

But, both seem content and happy.

 

 

 

 

[8filltheheart]

However, I will say that most of my more average students are doing well in the environment, enjoying the camaraderie, the sports, the clubs, the awards, the independence, the teachers. You do both gain and lose no matter which educational path you chose.

 

I think this varies with where you live.  I would say that we have lived in places that homeschooling has not limited any sort of sports,clubs, camaraderie, etc for my teens.  Our oldest was surrounded by a huge group of friends who participated in all of those things.  Then we moved and our high school age dd had a very difficult time finding anything to get involved in. Then we moved again and my then high school  ds found a great group of friends and activities.

 

Schools vary by area as well.  Some offer a lot of things.  Some don't.

[JoanHomeEd]

we got into the competition route for the socializing....

 

In our case, the same competition kids have also been accepted to the same college... many more opportunities to cross paths  :001_smile: