High School Science, AP Physics, Educator.com, other science questions.

[LisaKinVA]

Now that the college picture is a bit clearer for my oldest two (youngest son is thinking pre-med, but as he's a rising 7th grader his path is kind of set the next two years), I'm further investigating courses PonyGirl and LEGO Maniac should be taking.

 

They need 2-3 lab sciences each (not an issue).  However, we are thinking about adding in some self-study *without* labs, too.

 

For example:  

 

Pony Girl's Lab Sciences would include:

 

AP Chemistry

AP Biology

AP Physics 1 

Marine Biology

 

We are thinking about having her go through the other half of the College Physics (Knight) book, with a series of lectures and some problem sets and take the AP Physics 2 course.  She needs 3 gen-ed math or science courses, and AP Chem, AP Bio, AP Physics 1 & 2 would qualify.

 

But, as part of her major, she needs AP Physics C BOTH E&M and Mech (if she wants to test out of these).  How vital are hands-on labs?  Or could she just watch video demonstrations?  All the school cares about at that point is the test score.

 

Beyond these courses, we also discussed taking some science courses as "content courses" -- such as: Microbiology, Organic Chemistry, Human Anatomy....things that would not have lab work, but would focus mostly on understanding the content -- preparation for university.  

 

So, her high school transcript for science (assuming she can handle the work) would look like this:

 

Physical Science (integrated Physics and Chem -- all virtual labs)

Biology (virtual lab, some hands on)

AP Chemistry (lab)

AP Physics 1 (lab) (9th)

Marine Biology (lab) (9th)

AP Physics 2 (virtual lab) (9th or 10th)

AP Biology (lab) (10th)

Organic Chemistry (virtual lab) (11th)

Microbiology (virtual lab) (11th-12th)

AP Physics C E/M & M (virtual lab) (12th)

 

She would still have to take all of the Biology (AP Bio is only gen ed credit), Organic Chem and Microbiology in college, but she'd already have a foundation -- which should make the subjects a bit easier.

 

LEGOManiac's course load would look like this:

 

Physical Science (integrated C/P, virtual lab)

Honors Biology (virtual lab)

Honors Physics (virtual lab)

AP Chem (lab)

AP Physics 1 (lab)

AP Physics 2 (virtual lab)

AP Biology (lab)

AP Physics C (E/M & M) (virtual lab) **Most likely he will have to retake this again at the college-level anyway**

 

He also has a bunch of technology/engineering electives (Robotics 1, 2, & 3, Engineering CAD, Architectural Design, Software Applications)

 

Now, beyond that...I was reading on the PAHomeschooler page where they are talking up their AP Physics C E/M and M courses that doing all four AP Physics courses is "too much" for high school.  And that IF a student has the math ability, they should just wait to take Physics until they are ready for AP Physics C?

 

So, is this too much physics in high school? Should DD wait on Physics until 11th grade (she'd still need to take AP Bio in 10th, because that is when it will be offered).  

 

I really wanted the kids to do labs at the high school, but the only AP sciences next year are AP Chem and AP Physics 1 (AP Physics 1 is the only AP Physics they offer with labs, the virtual school has the others, but we'd have to do the labs on our own anyway).

 

If you feel this IS too much Physics, would you recommend this for the next 2-4 years?

 

DS:

AP Environmental Science (lab) at the school (fingers crossed they have one next year)

AP Biology (lab at school)

AP Physics C (E/M & M) virtual lab

 

DD:

AP Environmental Science (lab at school)

Marine Biology (lab at home)

AP Biology (lab at school)

Organic Chem (virtual lab)

AP Physics C (E/M & M) (virtual lab)

Microbiology (virtual lab) or Biochemistry (virtual lab) or Molecular Biology (virtual lab)

 

**theoretically, I could purchase a lab kit for AP Physics C, I'm just not sure I want to**  Labs at home have been my Achilles heel. 

 

Talk with me... Oh, I'm looking at using those videos online that were posted free, as well as Educator.com, EDX/Coursera/MIT Courseware...thoughts??  Talk me through it, if you will.  No holds barred.

 

ETA:  Physics Labs -- are there specific labs required for AP Physics C?  Or could I use other Physics labs which explore the same concept (do the labs have to use calculus?)  I have been reading and searching old threads, and am still as confused as ever.  I'm wondering if I should just get an "Advanced" Physics Kit from Apologia or Saxon and match that up with either the Giancoli University Physics or the Knight University Physics and call it done.  I know the virtual school uses home-based labs (the DoD virtual school).  How many labs?  1 per chapter (1 per week?) 1 every other week?  Can I alternate a demostration (virtual) with a hands-on?  If anyone can't tell, I'm leaning towards forgetting our plans to do AP Physics 1 next year and doing it LEGOManiac's senior year after he completes Calculus AB maybe C, and then delaying it until DD's senior year (because that would be a lot closer to when she'll need it in college).

Edited April 12, 2016 by LisaK in VA is in IT

[regentrude]

 

Physical Science (integrated C/P, virtual lab)

Honors Biology (virtual lab)

Honors Physics (virtual lab)

AP Chem (lab)

AP Physics 1 (lab)

AP Physics 2 (virtual lab)

AP Biology (lab)

AP Physics C (E/M & M) (virtual lab) **Most likely he will have to retake this again at the college-level anyway**

 

ETA: Just saw that for this student there is also the Honors Physics. oh my....This seems excessive.

 

I feel this is too much physics - too much of the same physics, that is.

 

I would not make a student take AP Physics 1 and 2 and C. C covers virtually the same material, just at a higher mathematical level. Is that really necessary? I would rather have the student take a different science, or, if she is interested, different physics not covered/not as thoroughly covered in the previous courses.

If a student really wants to do both AP Physics C courses for testing out, and wants to take another physics before (for which a good argument can be made), I would restrict algebra based physics to a one year introduction and forget about the algebra based AP (which is not going to give her college credit anyway). But having had physics in the integrated physical science already may still mean that she studies the same stuff three times... which would be oh so boring.

 

My physics loving DD did take two intro physics courses during high school: an algebra based course with Knight in 9th, and a calculus based course in 11th, each was one semester of mechanics and one semester of e&m - but she did those as live classes at a four year uni, so there were many other factors that contributed to her learning. She also had not have any physical science before and did not spend several years on algebra based  physics.

 

ETA: I know nothing about AP Phys C labs specifically, but can tell you that most labs in a calculus based university physics course do not, actually, involve the use of calculus.

 

ETA: For a student planning to retake calc based physics at college, I would definitely skip either the calc based high school course or the algebra based one.

Edited April 12, 2016 by regentrude

[amy58103]

Wow, that is a lot of science!  

 

I would skip the AP Physics 1&2 courses ... these courses are weird, don't really align very well with the "typical" college courses, and probably won't get you any college credit if you are going into a STEM major.  I would choose between Honors Physics or AP Physics C.  

 

It sounds like you have enough "hands-on" labs with the other science courses so virtual labs would be fine.  OR, you could skip the "labs" and do several science-fair type projects throughout the year (say 1 per major unit/topic).  There are no specific labs required for the AP Physics C exam. (If you want to call the class AP Physics C on the transcript you have use an approved syllabus that spends a specific amount of time on labs, but you can always call the course Advanced Physics with AP Exam and not worry about that.)  

[LisaKinVA]

ETA: Just saw that for this student there is also the Honors Physics. oh my....This seems excessive.

 

I feel this is too much physics - too much of the same physics, that is.

 

I would not make a student take AP Physics 1 and 2 and C. C covers virtually the same material, just at a higher mathematical level. Is that really necessary? I would rather have the student take a different science, or, if she is interested, different physics not covered/not as thoroughly covered in the previous courses.

If a student really wants to do both AP Physics C courses for testing out, and wants to take another physics before (for which a good argument can be made), I would restrict algebra based physics to a one year introduction and forget about the algebra based AP (which is not going to give her college credit anyway). But having had physics in the integrated physical science already may still mean that she studies the same stuff three times... which would be oh so boring.

 

My physics loving DD did take two intro physics courses during high school: an algebra based course with Knight in 9th, and a calculus based course in 11th, each was one semester of mechanics and one semester of e&m - but she did those as live classes at a four year uni, so there were many other factors that contributed to her learning. She also had not have any physical science before and did not spend several years on algebra based  physics.

 

ETA: I know nothing about AP Phys C labs specifically, but can tell you that most labs in a calculus based university physics course do not, actually, involve the use of calculus.

 

ETA: For a student planning to retake calc based physics at college, I would definitely skip either the calc based high school course or the algebra based one.

 

Yes, he took Honors Physics using the College Physics Open Staxx book in 9th, AP Chem now, and we were looking at AP Physics 1 next year.  As I got to investigating, it really sounded like he should skip the AP Physics 1 course and instead take the AP Physics C course (which he could do both sections in one year, especially if he'd already been through at least Calc AB -- the math would certainly not be an issue, and we could do a quick refresher with some video lectures if he felt it was necessary before diving in).

 

DD is just starting out in high school.  She also is required to take Calc-based Physics as part of her math major (at least at her current top-two choices).  Once I dove into the requirements, it also seemed like a lot of Physics for someone who really wants more opportunities with Biology,  This will free up their time considerably.  She will do a quick overview of Physics (content only), but not worrying about AP Physics 1, 2 and both sections of C will free up her time considerably (and makes more sense from a content-standpoint).

 

All I have to do is figure out the labs...and to be honest, those give me a headache.

 

[mjbucks1]

FWIW, my son did the following sequence:

 

AP Chem (9th)

AP Physics B (10th)

AP Physics C (both mech and e&m 11th)

AP Bio (12th)

 

He really enjoyed learning algebra based physics and then following it with Calc based physics. But I, too, think 3 years of physics would be overkill. I would prefer one year on an honors course, and then Calc based physics. DS has taken all of his science courses through PA homeschoolers. The labs for both physics courses were almost exactly the same, so I think you would be fine doing one year of physics lab (probably with an honors physics class).

[LisaKinVA]

FWIW, my son did the following sequence:

 

AP Chem (9th)

AP Physics B (10th)

AP Physics C (both mech and e&m 11th)

AP Bio (12th)

 

He really enjoyed learning algebra based physics and then following it with Calc based physics. But I, too, think 3 years of physics would be overkill. I would prefer one year on an honors course, and then Calc based physics. DS has taken all of his science courses through PA homeschoolers. The labs for both physics courses were almost exactly the same, so I think you would be fine doing one year of physics lab (probably with an honors physics class).

 

Oh, how I wish live, online classes were an option for us -- our internet is horrible, and the time difference has proven untenable.  This is really good to know about the labs -- it will make life much, much easier!

 

After AP Chem this year, AP Environmental is going to seem a bit easy ;)  (which is probably a good thing, considering our schedule next May!)

 

My daughter is wondering if she could do both AP Bio next year AND AP Physics C (both).  I told her that might be a bit much.  She argues, but, Biology is mostly memorizing stuff, and Physics is just math :p  I also told her it might be better to delay AP Physics until she was closer to college, because it would be more "fresh" material-wise.  She's going to have to start with the Biology for majors series anyhow (and that is a step above AP Bio).  

 

My science nightmare has now gotten more manageable...thank you!

[mjbucks1]

Again, FWIW, none of the PA homeschoolers classes were live. You do need to be able to access the Internet daily, but the time did not matter. I know it still might not make a difference, but I thought I would mention it. 😄