Any Suzuki strings experts/experienced parents?

[PagesandFields]

My daughter is only 4... But very into music, and music was incredibly important to me growing up... I took her to Violin lessons this past semester.. It is a bit silly because she is only 4! I know... But for many reasons it was a good thing for us...

 

The problem is that I have had to stop her lessons due to finances and time..

 

Now my daughter and my son want lessons again... But we are pretty isolated and I think I need to prioritize the social classes for them, and I don't think we will be able to afford lessons this next year...

 

So my question: I grew up playing piano, and am comfortable teaching early piano... From my daughters lessons I learned basically how she is supposed to be starting, holding bow, basic rhythms, posture, etc... Will I mess them both up if I try to teach them these things and add lessons in again when I can afford it?

Edited April 10, 2016 by PagesandFields

[scoutingmom]

Not saying whether or not it is a good idea.... but I do have a few online resources if you decide to.

 

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[vaquitita]

I'm not a string expert by any means (far from it, I have zero violin experience), but my daughter has been taking Suzuki violin lessons for the past six months and one thing that has really stood out to me is how particular and exactly so every finger and every body part must be placed. It is so detailed and precise and finicky, that I would pretty much be guaranteed of teaching her bad habits if I had tried to do it myself. Even now I don't correct her form, I just ask her what her teacher wants. And hope she remembers it correctly, lol. It's Not just where a finger is placed, but the shape of each finger as it sits in its spot, and the amount of tension in the finger and wrist and arm as you do it. Placement of the bow has to be watched in four different directions at once. I have a son who has taken Suzuki piano lessons for three years now, and while there is posture and tension and finger placement it is no where near the precision level required for violin. But maybe it's just me or it's just her violin teacher. Anyway, there's my two cents.

[cottonmama]

I usually advocate for learning with a teacher in these threads.  But if you're talking doing this for a short-ish period of time, i.e. a matter of months, and you are prepared to be quite picky about the technique things you do know, and if you are willing to prioritize technique over the introduction of new songs... I would say it could work.  

 

Keep in mind that a teacher is very useful for problem-solving when new bad habits pop up or when entrenched ones won't go away, for judging when to introduce new techniques and new music, for balancing the focus on different posture/violin-hold/bow-hold/musicality items... etc.  The longer you work without a teacher, the more your chance your teacher will have a lot to undo when you go back.

 

So I really wouldn't recommend doing this long-term.  But it sounds like you feel pretty confident about the technique things your child's teacher has been working on with you.  If you think you have been an effective practice partner so far, I think you could continue that for a short period of time.

 

The piano is a great instrument and could be a better option if you don't have a solid plan for budgeting violin lessons back in fairly soon.  :-)

[maize]

I'm going to diverge from standard advice on this one and say go ahead; I recommend you use the lessons from this website on holding the violin, bowing, and the Suzuki book 1 repertoire.

http://www.violinlab.com/mobile.php

 

There is a ton that goes into violin playing, but I personally do not like to be a stickler with form for young kids. Dr. Suzuki suggested that children could learn music as they learn language, and that is where I am coming from--young children do not learn language without errors from the start; they can't pronounce every sound, they mess up on grammar--and as they grow and learn they make corrections.

 

Do make sure you have finger position tapes on the violin.

I'm going to diverge from standard advice on this one and say go ahead; I recommend you use the lessons from this website on holding the violin, bowing, and the Suzuki book 1 repertoire.

http://www.violinlab.com/mobile.php

 

There is a ton that goes into violin playing, but I personally do not like to be a stickler with form for young kids. Dr. Suzuki suggested that children could learn music as they learn language, and that is where I am coming from--young children do not learn language without errors from the start; they can't pronounce every sound, the mess up on grammar--and as they grow and learn they make corrections.

 

Do make sure you have finger position tapes on the violin.

Edited April 10, 2016 by maize

[PagesandFields]

Thanks all! I plan on starting piano with them myself more regularly now, and continuing on as long as we can... I am working hard on setting us up to commit to the violin lessons permanently... But right now it is not possible and we need some time.

 

To be honest one of my main reasons for wanting to do Violin is that I truly feel like the reason I gave up music was because of the public and immobile aspects of the piano... For me it was a self-expression thing, and once I no longer was able to have a piano of my own the only available places to play for free are usually quite public... So I quit entirely for over a decade and am just now trying to pick it up again... My daughter hasn't even progressed to the point of songs on the violin yet... I am hoping if I can buy 1-2 semesters where I get them better started on the piano and get the posture/dexterity and very basic stuff more practiced on the violin they will be able to pick up the lessons again and start progressing... Their ages might actually be more appropriate by that point anyway... They love the teacher and I really love the program, recital they do, and other students...

 

I will definitely look at those resources and websites... And take it a month or two at a time to see if I feel like I am still comfortable correcting them...

 

Thank you ALL

Edited April 10, 2016 by PagesandFields

[wintermom]

I'd probably go with piano and take a break from violin until you are ready to do lessons again. The piano will be excellent for their music development, and you won't have to worry about bad habits forming with the violin.  Though if it is social activities you are prioritizing, is your Suzuki violin teacher linked up with group classes for violin? That's a great way to combine social and music goals at the same time. 

 

Learning to play the violin in a group setting is very important for their future playing, as well as very motivating to continue learning the songs when they start getting harder. I'm a pianist, like you, though all my dc play either violin or classical guitar, and they've all been through Suzuki programs. For the violin in particular, it's not a solo instrument, like the piano is. They have a piano accompanist for their recitals, they work up to playing in ensembles, orchestras or string quartets. Getting used to playing with others is almost as important as learning to play alone. I had no clue about this we we began our journey 8 years ago. It is really wonderful to see and hear them playing amazing music with their ensembles. 

Edited April 10, 2016 by wintermom

[scoutingmom]

Here is a great site to start.... it is a school program, but has videos and homework assignments up to Twinkle... http://www.violinist.com/mckinley/

 

 

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[mathnerd]

In my area, most young kids who start violin do so in a suzuki group class. They are usually cheaper than private lessons and they have 3 recitals in a year. As PP said, string instruments are mostly played in ensembles and orchestras starting very early (as young as 5 years old). So, a group class might be a good fit.

 

My son is learning violin and from what I have seen (and heard of him practicing!), I would not recommend that you teach your child at home. In the early days, it sounded like DS was doing everything wrong for months - scratchy noises, jitters, extra strings, uneven sound etc etc. Even with a very good teacher, there were tons of adjustments to finger positions, corrections and changes to posture, bow hold etc for my son. I sit through his classes and take notes and photos and try to help at home. Still, the first few months were not very productive until my son learned to be more comfortable with his violin. So, I believe that a teacher is essential to developing correct technique. Violin is one of the most difficult instruments to learn in my opinion and any bad technique picked up will take longer to correct. There are a lot of youtube resources on bow holds, how to hold the violin, how to play open strings etc. Maybe you could try those if you really wanted to get your kids started before finding a teacher.

 

I do think that you can teach your kids piano because you are already a pianist. Learning piano helped my son progress faster on the violin than other kids who started with him. Being able to sight read the music, having a strong theory background, previous ear training and the musicality he developed from piano transferred to violin instantaneously.

Edited April 11, 2016 by mathnerd

[Gabrielsyme]

You've gotten excellent responses here and it sounds like you see your way ahead. A note of encouragement: I have a daughter (six) who plays Violin and a son (4) who plays cello; both children have grown musically through playing piano "on the side." There have been many times when my draughter has had a breakthrough with her Suzuki repertoire because she worked it out on the piano first. Like some others I'd advocate a break from violin and focus on piano for the moment. The time on the piano will pay dividends on strings and you won't risk bad habits.