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But none of your children had CLEP credits, correct? Just making sure I understand. My point is that choosing an interesting AP or DE class can in some, not all, cases be preferable to CLEP. The credit will still be there.

??? What is the difference between between being a homeschooler, taking a class at home, and sitting for the AP exam or sitting for the CLEP exam? The only difference is the test. We don't change a thing about the course. Maybe some people randomly pick up a test prep book and simply prep, but I'm not sure what the difference really is for kids actually taking a course and then sitting for the exam??

 

For example, most schools will let kids take placement exams. It doesn't require CLEP, AP, or DE. It simply involves taking the placement test. Does that make what they studied any less "studied"?

 

Ironically, we asked one French dept if dd should DE. (She hasn't taken AP French, either.) The response was no bc what she is doing is beyond what they would expect in the classroom.

 

I'm not sure why the line is drawn between CLEP and AP. If universities are willing to give credit for CLEP, I am not sure there really is a valid distinction. CLEP credit, otoh, is far more limiting than AP bc the cal exam is only AB. The science exams don't give lab credit, etc. But, just bc a student opts to take the CLEP exam does not mean their course was "less." In my dd's case it is more along the lines of taking the exam whenever she wants vs. 2 weeks in May.

Edited by 8FillTheHeart
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??? What is the difference between between being a homeschooler, taking a class at home, and sitting for the AP exam or sitting for the CLEP exam? The only difference is the test. We don't change a thing about the course. Maybe some people randomly pick up a test prep book and simply prep, but I'm not sure what the difference really is for kids actually taking a course and then sitting for the exam??

 

 

I think that's been covered up-thread. Some schools see a difference in the tests.  For some students this matters. For some schools AP tests are preferred to CLEP tests. I'm not sure I understand your question.
 

For example, most schools will let kids take placement exams. It doesn't require CLEP, AP, or DE. It simply involves taking the placement test. Does that make what they studied any less "studied"?

 

 I think we might be talking past each other. I'm not sure what placement exams have to do with anything I've said.

 

Ironically, we asked one French dept if dd should DE. (She hasn't taken AP French, either.) The response was no bc what she is doing is beyond what they would expect in the classroom.

 

I'm not sure why the line is drawn between CLEP and AP. If universities are willing to give credit for CLEP, I am not sure there really is a valid distinction. CLEP credit, otoh, is far more limiting than AP bc the cal exam is only AB. The science exams don't give lab credit, etc. But, just bc a student opts to take the CLEP exam does not mean their course was "less." In my dd's case it is more along the lines of taking the exam whenever she wants vs. 2 weeks in May.

 

Are you asking a rhetorical question or are you asking me? I'm making the distinction because some schools my dd is considering make the distinction.  I'm not directing my comments in this thread toward your dd's decisions. I have no idea about her situation other than what you've posted. I presume the two of you are making the absolute best decision for her.  I'm just giving my thoughts which are products of my dd's experiences, situation, and goals.  I know they don't apply to everyone. I'm just posting in case someone might be in a similar situation -- not to say other experiences, situations, courses, goals, or decisions are "less". I'm sorry if it came across that way. It certainly wasn't my intention.  :001_huh:  

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Interesting.  For my dd, anything she would CLEP out of appears to take the place of a more interesting course at the university. As always, so much depends on majors, etc. Even in the case of a double major, CLEP doesn't make sense for her.

 

It's personality too. She enjoys classes, as opposed to the self study/test routine. AP classes and DE are just a better fit. With DE she can take the interesting courses and get the credit. It's a win-win. 

 

)

  

But none of your children had CLEP credits, correct? Just making sure I understand. My point is that choosing an interesting AP or DE class can in some, not all, cases be preferable to CLEP. The credit will still be there.

  

I think that's been covered up-thread. Some schools see a difference in the tests.  For some students this matters. For some schools AP tests are preferred to CLEP tests.

 

Are you asking a rhetorical question or are you asking me?

 

Yes, the distinction between what some schools prefer has been clarified multiple times. No one has suggested that CLEPs will replace AP credits at schools that don't like or want CLEP credits. But at schools that do give credit for CLEP, there is zero distinction between credit for AP vs credit by CLEP vs credit by SAT subject test vs credit by exam at the school. That is my point. Credit by testing is credit by testing. Most schools' websites make their credit by exam lists very clear. You look at the exam title, you see what score you need and what course credit is given for. An AP's micro test credit is absolutely no different CLEP's micro test credit if both give credit for econ 201.

 

Your posts, otoh, seem to me to be suggesting a difference in course content. That somehow APs allow a student to explore an interesting subject, but CLEP courses would replace a more interesting course at a university.

 

That argument makes zero sense. If universities don't give credit for CLEPs or you are aiming for schools that don't take CLEPs, CLEPs are a poor choice.

 

But if a school gives the exact same credit for CLEP that they do for APs, when you are covering the exact same course content, homemade course with the AP exam at the end is no more of an "interesting course" than taking the exact same course followed by the CLEP exam. Thus,"For my dd, anything she would CLEP out of appears to take the place of a more interesting course at the university" is a strange comment in the context of this discussion when you are saying that she would take an AP course with the AP exam.

 

That is my point. What we are doing for the class is the exact same content. The only distinction is the test at the end, not the course.

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Well, it's almost impossible for a homeschooler to get a spot to sit for an AP exam (& they only offer a few) in our very rural area, so it's CLEP or DE at CC for us.

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I haven't read all the responses, so forgive me if this has already been stated, but the concerns regarding CLEP and grad school are absolutely valid if your student is looking into dentistry or medicine.

 

We've used AP and CLEPs extensively in our homeschool but were very careful that our current dental student not take credit for any science tests. Of course, it's fine if they take the test for purposes of validating the transcript, but don't take credit for even the 101 science courses. Even if they end up taking advanced courses in science and get their B.S. in science, most dental schools will seriously frown on the application if the basic science courses were credited through CLEP or AP.

 

The same goes for CC. Check the dental/medical school first before accepting science credits at a CC. My son's dental school would not have accepted them, even though his university would have. (Creekland probably knows better what medical schools are expecting.)

 

I love CLEP and AP for other purposes, but be careful when thinking about post-graduate studies. You would absolutely want to check any future schools before accepting credit.

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Yes, the distinction between what some schools prefer has been clarified multiple times. No one has suggested that CLEPs will replace AP credits at schools that don't like or want CLEP credits. But at schools that do give credit for CLEP, there is zero distinction between credit for AP vs credit by CLEP vs credit by SAT subject test vs credit by exam at the school. That is my point. Credit by testing is credit by testing. Most schools' websites make their credit by exam lists very clear. You look at the exam title, you see what score you need and what course credit is given for. An AP's micro test credit is absolutely no different CLEP's micro test credit if both give credit for econ 201.

 

Your posts, otoh, seem to me to be suggesting a difference in course content. That somehow APs allow a student to explore an interesting subject, but CLEP courses would replace a more interesting course at a university.

 

That argument makes zero sense. If universities don't give credit for CLEPs or you are aiming for schools that don't take CLEPs, CLEPs are a poor choice.

 

But if a school gives the exact same credit for CLEP that they do for APs, when you are covering the exact same course content, homemade course with the AP exam at the end is no more of an "interesting course" than taking the exact same course followed by the CLEP exam. Thus,"For my dd, anything she would CLEP out of appears to take the place of a more interesting course at the university" is a strange comment in the context of this discussion when you are saying that she would take an AP course with the AP exam.

 

That is my point. What we are doing for the class is the exact same content. The only distinction is the test at the end, not the course.

 

 

When I mentioned classes, I was referring to outsourced classes. Some high school students prefer outsourced classes, including AP/DE.

 

My comment to Luckymama was only about the tests. I was just pointing out AP and DE offer credit the same as CLEP, so not taking CLEPs doesn't prevent a student from graduating early, taking higher level courses earlier, or double majoring. Her dd studies for many APs at home. There are various ways to earn college credit if that is the goal. 

 

Some universities and community colleges offer many classes for gen ed requirements that are different from the few CLEP tests offered. CLEP offers 33 exams in 5 subjects. The university offers far more.  There are no CLEPs for some of the interesting gen ed classes offered at the university. 

 

YM obviously V.

 

 

 

 

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When I mentioned classes, I was referring to outsourced classes. Some high school students prefer outsourced classes, including AP/DE.

 

My comment to Luckymama was only about the tests. I was just pointing out AP and DE offer credit the same as CLEP, so not taking CLEPs doesn't prevent a student from graduating early, taking higher level courses earlier, or double majoring. Her dd studies for many APs at home. There are various ways to earn college credit if that is the goal. 

 

Some universities and community colleges offer many classes for gen ed requirements that are different from the few CLEP tests offered. CLEP offers 33 exams in 5 subjects. The university offers far more.  There are no CLEPs for some of the interesting gen ed classes offered at the university. 

 

YM obviously V.

 

You repeatedly use the word "interesting" before AP and DE.  On the AP thread that Sparkly started, most of the posts are mentioning homebrewed AP courses or simply studying test prep books. You didn't jump in and write numerous posts saying that your dd wouldn't want to take homebrewed AP classes, only "interesting outsourced AP or DE classes," and that the other posters' homebrewed classes wouldn't be of interest b/c they would be replacing interesting university classes.  ;)

 

If you don't want your dd to take CLEP exams, that is fine.  My ds only took 1 CLEP (American history) and the rest were AP or DE.  He had different goals and needs.  It doesn't change the purpose that CLEPs serve. AP tests and CLEPs both serve the same end, credit.

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You repeatedly use the word "interesting" before AP and DE. On the AP thread that Sparkly started, most of the posts are mentioning homebrewed AP courses or simply studying test prep books. You didn't jump in and write numerous posts saying that your dd wouldn't want to take homebrewed AP classes, only "interesting outsourced AP or DE classes," and that the other posters' homebrewed classes wouldn't be of interest b/c they would be replacing interesting university classes. ;)

 

If you don't want your dd to take CLEP exams, that is fine. My ds only took 1 CLEP (American history) and the rest were AP or DE. He had different goals and needs. It doesn't change the purpose that CLEPs serve. AP tests and CLEPs both serve the same end, credit.

I use interesting because my DD isn't taking all AP or DE, only the ones of particular interest to her. That's all. I'm not sure I understand what you are saying or what you want me to say.

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I skimmed the thread so it's possible I missed this, but one pitfall to look out for with CLEP is if the major will not accept the course as satisfying a pre-req. The college might accept the test as equivalent to a specific course but the major may not.

 

I'm waiting for the head of the Speech & Language Pathology Assistant department to make a determination as to whether the human-development related courses in my 1st bachelor's will satisfy their pre-req. I took 4 of them (Developmental Psychology, Cognitive Development, Developmental Biology, and a Human Life Cycle bio course) but none of them are an exact match for the SLPA required course. There is a Human Development CLEP test but while the college grants credit for it as equivalent, the SLPA major does not.

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Sparkly, the best way to see if CLEP or AP or DE will work out best is to look carefully at your CC's list of credit by exam and then compare it with your state U's credit by exam and course transfer lists. Look at the gen ed requirements that you need to fulfill to graduate. Every one that you fulfill in high school opens up a slot for a more interesting class at the university or allows you to graduate earlier. Texas makes this process super easy to understand, I hope NY isn't too confusing.

 

For example, in TX, every public university student at any state school has to complete a common core of classes. It doesn't matter if you CLEP them, AP them, DE them, you've got to take 42 credits of gen ed in very specific ways. Each CC or university can define their list a bit differently, but once you've checked all the boxes at one school, all the other schools accept them as a block. This is where it gets tricky. Some schools give 6 credits for APUSH, some (my local CC) only give 3 and force you to DE or CLEP out of the other 3. Some schools require public speaking, some don't. Some require 3 sciences, some only require 2 (because they require public speaking instead). On the positive side, the core aligns really well with a solid high school education. It includes a couple of comp classes, American history, government, math, science, foreign language, health, art and, sometimes, public speaking. If you can get a good score on an AP or a CLEP or a good grade in a DE class, you'll be well prepared to hit the ground running with more specialized classes at the university. This won't necessarily apply to the SUNY system, but I hope it gives you a road map of what you're looking for on their websites.

Edited by chiguirre
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It seems like a good deal if you are reasonably sure your student will be applying to schools that accept them. Looking at the list, I can't see a downside to CLEPing out of many of these courses -the intros to history and Psych, for example, would allow a student to take the higher level, more interesting courses in those areas earlier. If you are a good student and already know the material, why not take a test and show that? (And these intro humanities courses are among some of the easiest in many universities, including my university that didn't accept these CLEPs).

 

I am not planning for any and probably wouldn't until end of junior year when we will be narrowing the lists of schools, since I am reasonably sure going into ninth grade that we will be applying to at least a few schools that do not accept them, and I am not sure how having CLEP scores on the transcript will be viewed. I am guessing neutrally, but I don't know. Because of this, I am leaning toward APs in my planning.

Edited by Penelope
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Sparkly, the best way to see if CLEP or AP or DE will work out best is to look carefully at your CC's list of credit by exam and then compare it with your state U's credit by exam and course transfer lists. Look at the gen ed requirements that you need to fulfill to graduate. Every one that you fulfill in high school opens up a slot for a more interesting class at the university or allows you to graduate earlier. Texas makes this process super easy to understand, I hope NY isn't too confusing.

 

For example, in TX, every public university student at any state school has to complete a common core of classes. It doesn't matter if you CLEP them, AP them, DE them, you've got to take 42 credits of gen ed in very specific ways. Each CC or university can define their list a bit differently, but once you've checked all the boxes at one school, all the other schools accept them as a block. This is where it gets tricky. Some schools give 6 credits for APUSH, some (my local CC) only give 3 and force you to DE or CLEP out of the other 3. Some schools require public speaking, some don't. Some require 3 sciences, some only require 2 (because they require public speaking instead). On the positive side, the core aligns really well with a solid high school education. It includes a couple of comp classes, American history, government, math, science, foreign language, health, art and, sometimes, public speaking. If you can get a good score on an AP or a CLEP or a good grade in a DE class, you'll be well prepared to hit the ground running with more specialized classes at the university. This won't necessarily apply to the SUNY system, but I hope it gives you a road map of what you're looking for on their websites.

 

I looked up the CC he goes to now regarding CLEP stuff.  They used to be a CLEP testing facility and now they aren't (they did not say why or if that was temporary).  Weird.  I know they take CLEP there for sure.  I couldn't seem to figure out what/how many though.

 

I actually think AP might be more in line with what will suit his situation.  I admit to being kind of turned off at the amount of work this might be for me though.  I know cry me a river.  It's just a lot to juggle so many things. 

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I looked up the CC he goes to now regarding CLEP stuff.  

 

I don't know what it's like where you live, but here there are several open CLEP centers. You literally walk in and take a test. You may have to wait a bit if it's busy (although I can't imagine that there are hoards of people queueing for CLEP tests!) but you don't even need an appointment.

 

I am literally going to hand my dd a CLEP study guide, tell her "If you score well enough on the CLEP you'll get honors credit," and be done. It's up to her what she does with it. The only other things I will do are drive her there and pay for it.

 

I guess my kids are used to my no-nonsense approach because my oldest dd just asked me for a loan of $800 to take EMT training so she can get emergency medicine-based hours for her grad school application by working as an EMT. She was shocked, shocked I tell you, when I told her I would pay for it, no loan required. :D Of course I may have ruined the moment by then enumerating for her exactly how many craft beers I would have to forgo to squeeze that $800 out of the budget. ;)

 

(Yes, it was a joke, and my dd knew it.)

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I don't know what it's like where you live, but here there are several open CLEP centers. You literally walk in and take a test. You may have to wait a bit if it's busy (although I can't imagine that there are hoards of people queueing for CLEP tests!) but you don't even need an appointment.

 

I am literally going to hand my dd a CLEP study guide, tell her "If you score well enough on the CLEP you'll get honors credit," and be done. It's up to her what she does with it. The only other things I will do are drive her there and pay for it.

 

I guess my kids are used to my no-nonsense approach because my oldest dd just asked me for a loan of $800 to take EMT training so she can get emergency medicine-based hours for her grad school application by working as an EMT. She was shocked, shocked I tell you, when I told her I would pay for it, no loan required. :D Of course I may have ruined the moment by then enumerating for her exactly how many craft beers I would have to forgo to squeeze that $800 out of the budget. ;)

 

(Yes, it was a joke, and my dd knew it.)

 

Ok I know I'm totally waffling here, but after looking more into AP, I think it's a lot of work for what might not yield any benefit at all!  And my district is not friendly.  CLEP though, they have nothing to do with that.  That might actually be the less annoying route.  Or neither. 

 

 

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I looked up the CC he goes to now regarding CLEP stuff.  They used to be a CLEP testing facility and now they aren't (they did not say why or if that was temporary).  Weird.  I know they take CLEP there for sure.  I couldn't seem to figure out what/how many though.

 

I actually think AP might be more in line with what will suit his situation.  I admit to being kind of turned off at the amount of work this might be for me though.  I know cry me a river.  It's just a lot to juggle so many things. 

Here's a link to the CLEP site that lists all the colleges that take them for credit. The SUNYs all take more tests for credit than the Texas ccs and universities that I've looked at so you should be in good shape to use CLEPs to fulfill gen ed requirements. Here's the link to the CLEP list:

 

https://clep.collegeboard.org/search/colleges/us?page=12&search_type=1&college_name=&province=New%20York&form_build_id=form-aa56303385c0d2916697aad0efbb5345&form_id=views_exposed_form&AMCV_5E1B123F5245B29B0A490D45%40AdobeOrg=793872103%7CMCMID%7C89748467382567768940242647642408881854%7CMCIDTS%7C16902%7CMCAID%7CNONE%7CMCAAMLH-1460908551%7C9%7CMCAAMB-1460908551%7Chmk_Lq6TPIBMW925SPhw3Q

 

Hey that actually worked! It took me straight to the page with all the SUNYs.

Edited by chiguirre
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I might have missed this somewhere, but is CLEP even mentioned on the transcript/application? I don't see it on the Common AP, but I might have missed it.

 

Would it be possible to take CLEP tests for whatever reason and only report them after the student is accepted into a school that accepts them? There isn't a space for them like there is for the SAT, ACT, AP etc , correct? So if a student is worried a school would look down on the CLEPs, they could just not list them for that particular school. Or am I missing something?

 

Just trying to think of various options...

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Ok I know I'm totally waffling here, but after looking more into AP, I think it's a lot of work for what might not yield any benefit at all! And my district is not friendly. CLEP though, they have nothing to do with that. That might actually be the less annoying route. Or neither.

 

 

Annoying is exactly why my DD refuses to take APs. Her schedule is super full and she does not want to outsource to classes with restricted times. CLEPs can be taken whenever you want, not only in May. There is no learning format for answers. They are just super convenient with zero hoops.

 

Fwiw, l will list her scores on her transcripts just like any other test scores.

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Would it be possible to take CLEP tests for whatever reason and only report them after the student is accepted into a school that accepts them?

 

That's how it worked for my oldest.  She took clep college alg near end of 10th grade.  But didn't have a college in mind yet.  So she didn't report it and just "banked" it.  Then while in college, she took another clep exam (analyzing lit) and had that score sent to the college.  As far as we know, we never asked for the alg one to be sent as it wouldn't help her on degree (she's engineering).

 

and I was listening to a webinar this week about how some people know they will apply to charter oak (regionally accredited and you can obtain associates almost entirely via clep and dsst exams), but don't send any CLEP results to charter oak until several are banked up and sent at once.  rationale behind it was financial and when you start the program to only have to take the one or two online classes.  I don't recall that in enough detail to talk more.   But yeah, you can report later. We did.

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That's how it worked for my oldest.  She took clep college alg near end of 10th grade.  But didn't have a college in mind yet.  So she didn't report it and just "banked" it.  Then while in college, she took another clep exam (analyzing lit) and had that score sent to the college.  As far as we know, we never asked for the alg one to be sent as it wouldn't help her on degree (she's engineering).

 

and I was listening to a webinar this week about how some people know they will apply to charter oak (regionally accredited and you can obtain associates almost entirely via clep and dsst exams), but don't send any CLEP results to charter oak until several are banked up and sent at once.  rationale behind it was financial and when you start the program to only have to take the one or two online classes.  I don't recall that in enough detail to talk more.   But yeah, you can report later. We did.

 

Interesting. Good to know. Thanks!

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Thanks. Do you know if there is a place for them on the Common App? I didn't see one. 

 

APs and SATs are high school tests. CLEPs were originally designed for college students to get credit for previous work; they are administered in college testing centers, not given in high schools like AP and SAT tests are. Since CLEPs are normally taken by college students, not high schoolers, there's no reason to have a special category for them on the CA. Students can list them if desired, or not mention them until they matriculate at a college that accepts them.

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I'm actually considering CLEP because DD can't get high school credit for subjects taken before 9th grade according to our cover school-but they accept CLEP completion as proof of completion of a high school class. So, taking College Algebra automatically grants credit for high school algebra 1 and 2, taking Bio gives credit for high school biology, taking US history gives her credit for high school history. SAT 2 would work, but is more limited as far as scheduling and locations-there are literally only 2 places at all close that offer SAT subject tests at all. We'll probably use some of both, especially since she has a few classes that want SAT 2 tests from everyone.

 

I figure it's worth buying the practice books, having her take a practice test, prep for whatever extra topics she needs, and take the test, just to leap that hoop and get it on the transcript without having to play games. If it works out that the CLEP gets her out of a few gen Ed requirements, that's a nice bonus.

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I might have missed this somewhere, but is CLEP even mentioned on the transcript/application? I don't see it on the Common AP, but I might have missed it.

 

Would it be possible to take CLEP tests for whatever reason and only report them after the student is accepted into a school that accepts them? There isn't a space for them like there is for the SAT, ACT, AP etc , correct? So if a student is worried a school would look down on the CLEPs, they could just not list them for that particular school. Or am I missing something?

 

Just trying to think of various options...

 

That's how it worked for my oldest.  She took clep college alg near end of 10th grade.  But didn't have a college in mind yet.  So she didn't report it and just "banked" it.  Then while in college, she took another clep exam (analyzing lit) and had that score sent to the college.  As far as we know, we never asked for the alg one to be sent as it wouldn't help her on degree (she's engineering)...

 

The one tricky bit you have to watch out for is that some universities specifically state that incoming freshmen who will have CLEP test scores can't take continue to take CLEP over the summer before starting at the college -- and sometimes have a deadline of early spring of the 12th grade year as the latest date of CLEPs they will accept, precisely because the colleges want the students taking as many credits as possible *at* the college.

 

Some colleges also don't allow CLEP-ing once you're attending the school as a college student. So definitely check on time deadlines for CLEPs with whatever college your student wants to apply to.

 

Also check if the college limits total credits from CLEP that they allow -- or sometimes they limit the total combined CLEP plus transfer credits (and by transfer, that usually means dual enrollment as a high school student and coursework as a college student at a different college).

Edited by Lori D.
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(maybe I'm repeating this from information already shared.  I hope not.)

Another thing to check with individual college on limits with clep would be what about a class I registered for but then drop.   At my dd's college, you can't sign up for a class, withdraw from it, and then take the clep that would be that course equivalent.  (I'm not sure if that applies to "drops" as well as withdraw)  But given that most clep exams are dealing with 100 level courses, I understand why most people wouldn't even be bothering with clep exam once they are classified as sophomores in a 4 year college.  Places like thomas edison and charter oak would be the exceptions, not the rule.

 

 

 

(edit to correct to: "not" sure if it applies to drops)

Edited by cbollin
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Ok I know I'm totally waffling here, but after looking more into AP, I think it's a lot of work for what might not yield any benefit at all!  And my district is not friendly.  CLEP though, they have nothing to do with that.  That might actually be the less annoying route.  Or neither. 

 

 

 

 

Neither is certainly a valid option. It's easy to get a skewed view that everyone starts college with 20-30+ hours of credit. 

 

Some students find their university of choice requires most/all classes to be at the school, so the credits don't save money or time. That doesn't necessarily mean they were a waste. There are lots of reasons to take AP or DE or CLEP, even if the school doesn't accept it in the end. So many variables. There is no one right path.

 

The following applies mainly to those who have students who would like to keep a possible path to med school as clear as possible. It will not apply to all those students, there are always exceptions. The problem is that being an exception is not something everyone can count on. With that said, here is some information that might be useful or prompt further research for someone. 

 

-----------------------------------------------

 

There are lots of stories of testing out of oodles of classes.  Stories we don't hear on this board often, probably because this is mainly a K-12 homeschool forum, are stories of college juniors who need to take freshman classes to meet requirements for the medical school they are hoping to attend. I've read stories of regret about testing out of certain classes, either with AP or CLEP because they later needed to take the course anyway. 

 

Also, some schools require certain classes to be in-seat at a 4-year college/university within the past 5 years. So no online classes, even though the university. No DE during the sophomore or junior year of high school, no AP and no CLEP for those classes.

 

Early high school or college graduation is not always viewed a positive.

 

Some more selective universities don't allow students to test out of lower levels of a subject to start upper level courses early. 

 

In some cases testing just for the sake of college credit ends up being for naught. It can even put a student at a disadvantage in the end.

 

It seems prudent to take a course load that is both challenging and compelling, keeping in mind requirements of potential schools and possible paths. If accepted college credit comes along with that, it would be a bonus. Setting one's hopes and plans on starting college with lots of credit might be planning for disappointment, depending on where the path leads.

 

We often hear the stories of when it works out well. Not all stories have such a happy ending. 

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Yeah I wasn't looking to do tons of this stuff.  I just thought maybe it's some outside thing to add to a transcript and it's not too expensive.  But I really don't know where my kid will end up going to school so I wouldn't want to spend a ton on that. 

 

For years he has said he wants to go into electrical engineering and/or computer programming.  He hasn't really changed his mind.

 

And then I wonder if CLEP would satisfy the alternative diploma in New York.  See basically you cannot go to a NY state school and matriculate without a diploma.  They accept 24 credits spread out to somewhat resemble a high school course of study as a substitute for that.  This would not so much apply to private schools, but I definitely don't want to rule out state schools because they are more affordable.  It's confusing and difficult to explain this requirement (and I'm not sure I entirely get it).  It isn't that you can't get into a school without that, it is that you cannot obtain a degree without that in place at least by the time you graduate.  Some of the CCs seem to interpret that you need it beforehand though. 

 

 

Neither is certainly a valid option. It's easy to get a skewed view that everyone starts college with 20-30+ hours of credit. 

 

Some students find their university of choice requires most/all classes to be at the school, so the credits don't save money or time. That doesn't necessarily mean they were a waste. There are lots of reasons to take AP or DE or CLEP, even if the school doesn't accept it in the end. So many variables. There is no one right path.

 

The following applies mainly to those who have students who would like to keep a possible path to med school as clear as possible. It will not apply to all those students, there are always exceptions. The problem is that being an exception is not something everyone can count on. With that said, here is some information that might be useful or prompt further research for someone. 

 

-----------------------------------------------

 

There are lots of stories of testing out of oodles of classes.  Stories we don't hear on this board often, probably because this is mainly a K-12 homeschool forum, are stories of college juniors who need to take freshman classes to meet requirements for the medical school they are hoping to attend. I've read stories of regret about testing out of certain classes, either with AP or CLEP because they later needed to take the course anyway. 

 

Also, some schools require certain classes to be in-seat at a 4-year college/university within the past 5 years. So no online classes, even though the university. No DE during the sophomore or junior year of high school, no AP and no CLEP for those classes.

 

Early high school or college graduation is not always viewed a positive.

 

Some more selective universities don't allow students to test out of lower levels of a subject to start upper level courses early. 

 

In some cases testing just for the sake of college credit ends up being for naught. It can even put a student at a disadvantage in the end.

 

It seems prudent to take a course load that is both challenging and compelling, keeping in mind requirements of potential schools and possible paths. If accepted college credit comes along with that, it would be a bonus. Setting one's hopes and plans on starting college with lots of credit might be planning for disappointment, depending on where the path leads.

 

We often hear the stories of when it works out well. Not all stories have such a happy ending. 

 

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And then I wonder if CLEP would satisfy the alternative diploma in New York. See basically you cannot go to a NY state school and matriculate without a diploma. They accept 24 credits spread out to somewhat resemble a high school course of study as a substitute for that. This would not so much apply to private schools, but I definitely don't want to rule out state schools because they are more affordable. It's confusing and difficult to explain this requirement (and I'm not sure I entirely get it). It isn't that you can't get into a school without that, it is that you cannot obtain a degree without that in place at least by the time you graduate. Some of the CCs seem to interpret that you need it beforehand though.

Per my dh Clep will satisfy the 24 credit distribution as long as you have the distribution. He suspects it is easier if you have them put on a transcipt somewhere like Charter Oak but an ACE transcript may work.

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Per my dh Clep will satisfy the 24 credit distribution as long as you have the distribution. He suspects it is easier if you have them put on a transcipt somewhere like Charter Oak but an ACE transcript may work.

 

What is Charter Oak and ACE?  Not familiar with that. 

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Sparkly,

 

When you start investigating costs, meet full need schools might be far more affordable than your instate publics, depending on the income of your family. Those are going to be your very competitive admission schools. All schools are required by law to have net price calculators. The more questions they ask, the more likely they are to be correct.

 

For EE, the name of the school is not important. What matters is ABET accreditation and opportunities on campus and job recruiting.

 

If you want good financial safeties, push for high standardized test scores. For example, a NMS has multiple full-ride options. Top ACT scores (34) can get close to a full ride from schools like UAH. Historically black universities offer large scholarships for high stats. You might find that those out of state publics/privates are much cheaper than the NY schools. It all depends on income.

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Sparkly,

 

When you start investigating costs, meet full need schools might be far more affordable than your instate publics, depending on the income of your family. Those are going to be your very competitive admission schools. All schools are required by law to have net price calculators. The more questions they ask, the more likely they are to be correct.

 

For EE, the name of the school is not important. What matters is ABET accreditation and opportunities on campus and job recruiting.

 

If you want good financial safeties, push for high standardized test scores. For example, a NMS has multiple full-ride options. Top ACT scores (34) can get close to a full ride from schools like UAH. Historically black universities offer large scholarships for high stats. You might find that those out of state publics/privates are much cheaper than the NY schools. It all depends on income.

 

I guess I just do not know how that all works.  It seems to me that it would be cheaper to commute either way.  And if they hand out enough aid, is this for every year?  Or would we be sweating bullets every year wondering if DS could continue?  I really hate that thought. 

 

Going far is going to add to the cost and will they really cover that extra cost?  I'm inclined to think not.  I hate to sound so cheap, but I'm still paying my school loans back.  I really really really do not want to add on a ton more to my bill. 

 

 

 

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What is Charter Oak and ACE?  Not familiar with that. 

 

Charter Oak State College is a regionally accredited college that accepts a lot of clep and dsst (that's another exam) toward degree

https://www.charteroak.edu/

 

ACE:  that's referring to American Council on Education.  I know I could link to their website directly, but I'm going to link instead to Aleks math site where they have a nice summary description of that and other links

https://www.aleks.com/about_aleks/ace_credit

 

 

by the way, my oldest did not have any AP exams or classes.  She did not have any dual enrollment.  As I mentioned (on this thread I think?), we did clep college algebra but never submitted it.  So We're the oddballs on this forum who started college as freshman with zero credits.  She didn't get the clep credit until summer between freshman and sophomore years of college. (It was for gen ed literature.)  she's electrical engineering/computer science double major (or as we tease her CS double gEEk).   Started college as freshman in Calc 1.  Will take summer courses this summer at the college to help get 2 classes done to avoid 2 semesters of "over load" (19 credit hours). 

 

yes, she still got awesome scholarships for college.  yes she took ACT (only got a 30 composite and still got scholarships? yes) .   yes we did "regular" high school at home.  didn't even do co-ops.    all of that is said to encourage. yes her college is Abet accredited.  has good record for job placement.  no it's not a "hive bragging" rites name school.  But it is well respected "regional school" in the us news thingy making in their top 30 list.  But it's not nationally ranked with oohs and ahhs in name recognition.   and my kid gets to go to engineering conferences with student groups...  

 

best wishes in your planning. ((hugs))

Edited by cbollin
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I probably missed this if it was mentioned in the thread or other recent clep discussions.   Charter Oak also has some credit course opportunities through EdX (the MOOC).  Sounds crazy, right?

Thomas Edison State College (another regionally accredited college that has online options and generous credit by exam options) is working with Saylor.org for some classes and TESC exams.  more info on that can be found in their online associates in business degree plans. 

 

oh so many good paths to choose from for all kinds of goals.  makes me break into cold sweat sometimes.

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I probably missed this if it was mentioned in the thread or other recent clep discussions.   Charter Oak also has some credit course opportunities through EdX (the MOOC).  Sounds crazy, right?

Thomas Edison State College (another regionally accredited college that has online options and generous credit by exam options) is working with Saylor.org for some classes and TESC exams.  more info on that can be found in their online associates in business degree plans. 

 

oh so many good paths to choose from for all kinds of goals.  makes me break into cold sweat sometimes.

 

LOL yes this is helpful and scary at the same time. 

 

I went to the university that is located right next to Charter Oak.  They only have this one small building.  I never knew what they were all about. 

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I think focusing on doing well on the SAT or ACT seems like a good plan.  We have plenty of time for that too.  So that's a place to start.

 

Thank you everyone for all the help!

 

 

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I guess I just do not know how that all works. It seems to me that it would be cheaper to commute either way. And if they hand out enough aid, is this for every year? Or would we be sweating bullets every year wondering if DS could continue? I really hate that thought.

 

Going far is going to add to the cost and will they really cover that extra cost? I'm inclined to think not. I hate to sound so cheap, but I'm still paying my school loans back. I really really really do not want to add on a ton more to my bill.

It depends on the scholarships. Our ds is attending full-ride. That means that tuition, room, food, and books are all covered 100% for all 4 yrs. That is way cheaper than if he lived at home, I was feeding him, and he had to pay for transportation to and from school daily.

 

Don't discount going away to school. Dd is looking at schools that are at least 8 hrs away.. Several of them are way cheaper than living at home and attending the local university bc the scholarships cover all expenses while the local universities scholarships are not enough to to even cover full tuition. Ironically, the local school isnt anywhere near as good of a school as the others and it does a poor job of job placement for students in her major.

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It depends on the scholarships. Our ds is attending full-ride. That means that tuition, room, food, and books are all covered 100% for all 4 yrs. That is way cheaper than if he lived at home, I was feeding him, and he had to pay for transportation to and from school daily.

 

Don't discount going away to school. Dd is looking at schools that are at least 8 hrs away.. Several of them are way cheaper than living at home and attending the local university bc the scholarships cover all expenses while the local universities scholarships are not enough to to even cover full tuition. Ironically, the local school isnt anywhere near as good of a school as the others and it does a poor job of job placement for students in her major.

 

Geesh that sounds like something beyond my wildest dreams.  LOL

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Sparky, Here are links for Ace http://www2.acenet.edu/credit/?page=transcriptsand Charter Oakhttps://www.charteroak.edu/prospective/admissions/index.cfm. Ace transcripts are far cheaper I believe. Basically they give you a place to centralise your credits if you or your kids are using many different tests and institutions. For instance Dd has an AP, she has several CLEP, she was able to do a Coursera Calculus for Engineers for credit (program no longer exists) but her credit lives on, and she has a few other odd test credits. They add up to a significant credit total for her. It is nice to have them all at one location with an accredited school.

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Sparky, Here are links for Ace http://www2.acenet.edu/credit/?page=transcriptsand Charter Oakhttps://www.charteroak.edu/prospective/admissions/index.cfm. Ace transcripts are far cheaper I believe. Basically they give you a place to centralise your credits if you or your kids are using many different tests and institutions. For instance Dd has an AP, she has several CLEP, she was able to do a Coursera Calculus for Engineers for credit (program no longer exists) but her credit lives on, and she has a few other odd test credits. They add up to a significant credit total for her. It is nice to have them all at one location with an accredited school.

 

That is very cool.  Thank you.

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That is what you need to start looking and aiming for. :). And then you can look to see what CLEP credits they accept. http://www.ou.edu/content/admissions/apply/transfer-credits/college-level-examination.html

 

I just ordered an ACT test prep book. LOL  I have never seen the ACT.

 

I am very nervous, but then again I've started looking into these options at a point where there is still lots of time.  So maybe some of these options are doable. 

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Also, some schools require certain classes to be in-seat at a 4-year college/university within the past 5 years. 

 

It seems to me that the more people try to make college-in-high school the norm, the more the universities are pushing back and saying that college has to be college. And I don't think there is anything wrong with that. I don't think that the majority of high school students are (or should have to be) college-ready while in high school. If most (or lots) high school students are taking university classes and doing really well, then to me, that says that those university classes are not tough enough. I can see a high school junior or senior doing very well in a college non-majors class, but if a high school freshman is taking a university majors class and acing it, and that freshman is not one of the extreme outliers in terms of intelligence, then those university classes are not being taught at the appropriate level.

 

It also doesn't surprise me from a financial aspect that universities are pushing back. Of course they want students to come take all their very expensive courses on campus.

 

Our state recently opened DE to students as young as 7th grade. Personally, I don't think the vast, vast majority of 7th graders have any business taking college classes, and if we make that the norm, or if we make graduating high school with a bunch of college credits the norm, then we are doing our high school students a real disservice.

 

My dd will likely do some DE. My son likely will not. I don't want my son penalized for being a high school student while in high school.

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I think focusing on doing well on the SAT or ACT seems like a good plan.  We have plenty of time for that too.  So that's a place to start.

 

I think the alphabet soup of possibilities can easily distract us from our real goals. Our main focus here, in terms of getting merit aid, will be high ACT scores. We may do some interest-based DE classes. We may do some CLEP so I can justify designating "honors" on the transcript.

 

But our real goal is a rewarding, well-rounded, academically challenging high school experience. I don't want to get sucked into black holes of a ton of outside stuff. To me, that defeats the point of homeschooling.

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...For years he has said he wants to go into electrical engineering and/or computer programming.  He hasn't really changed his mind.

 

...you cannot go to a NY state school and matriculate without a diploma.  They accept 24 credits spread out to somewhat resemble a high school course of study as a substitute for that.  This would not so much apply to private schools, but I definitely don't want to rule out state schools because they are more affordable.  It's confusing and difficult to explain this requirement (and I'm not sure I entirely get it).  It isn't that you can't get into a school without that, it is that you cannot obtain a degree without that in place at least by the time you graduate.  Some of the CCs seem to interpret that you need it beforehand though...

 

...For EE, the name of the school is not important. What matters is ABET accreditation and opportunities on campus and job recruiting...

...You might find that those out of state publics/privates are much cheaper than the NY schools. It all depends on income...

 

Below are some links to help you get started with researching NY colleges, both for their high school diploma/work-around requirements AND for their costs/merit aid AND that are ABET accredited. Also included links for searching for ABET accredited schools outside of NY so you can compare costs/merit aid, as recommended in 8FillTheHeart's post. Happy hunting! :)

 

1&1: links to Engineering Scholarships

Information Vine: links to Electrical Engineering Scholarships

 

A Quick Guide to Colleges Offering Engineering Degrees: list of colleges with ABET-accredited Engineering programs by state, also broken down by engineering field (list created in 2007)

 

ABET Accredited Program Search -- search engine

ABET Accredited New York Schools with Bachelor's degrees -- from that above search engine

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