Gender disparity in student body

[plansrme]

Especially if you are the parent of a girl, does it bother you, or are you pleased, to see lopsided male/female ratios at so many schools?  We are finding a lot of schools with 60/40 splits, and one that even has somewhere between 65/35 and 70/30, always with more women than men.  On the one hand, I think it is entirely natural for girls to want to date during this period of their lives, and having two girls for every guy is going to complicate that a bit.  On the other hand, there are all those stats about how women participate in class more when there are fewer men, etc.  So, especially if you have a girl at one of these lopsided schools, does she think it affects the class dynamic?  Or is everyone so gender neutral these days that no one notices?

 

 

[MysteryJen]

I can't speak to the girl aspect, but ds1 is at a lopsided school. He's pretty happy with it.:)

 

But one thing I have noticed, the maturity gap between guys and girls still exists, and the girls often look like rock stars compared to 18-20 year old guys. So sometimes that can impact not only the social scene but academic stuff too. Almost always in the girls' favor.

[greenbeanmama]

My sister went to an all female college. Very occasionally, there would be a male in class (part of a college network). She said many students found is quite freeing, not having many male students around, and almost all of her college friends are (or at least were) married.

[regentrude]

I am at a school with a 75/25 ratio males/females.

I do not put much stock in those studies about participation. My DD took 32 credits here and she and her female friends were very active participants (so much that some dumb male student complained to the instructor, LOL, only to get a earfull) - whether a girl participates in class or not has much more to do with her individual personality than with the presence of males.  I see many of my female students very engaged in the coursework and do not sense that they feel intimidated by their male classmates.

 

I personally would not care one bit whether my kids attended a lopsided - in whichever direction - school.

Their dating prospects are not a consideration that even enters my mind when thinking about schools.

DS managed to find a girlfriend despite being homeschooled.

 

 

Edited April 8, 2016 by regentrude

[Arcadia]

I would look at the major rather than the overall ratio of the college. For my alma mater, engineering is still predominantly male, computer science predominantly female and the arts is mixed depending on specialization.

[regentrude]

I would look at the major rather than the overall ratio of the college. For my alma mater, engineering is still predominantly male, computer science predominantly female and the arts is mixed depending on specialization.

 

Yes, this too. Here, engineering is very male dominated, but biology and English are are very female dominated, for example.

So even at a school with very skewed ratios, the composition of any particular class does not have to reflect that.

[Crimson Wife]

I would be more concerned about a lopsided split at an isolated college vs. one that is located near a bunch of other colleges or in a major metro area. If there are a lot of young adults in the area, there will be plenty of opportunities to meet potential dating partners even if one attends a single-sex college.

[FaithManor]

It would not bother me, and the dating issue never occured to me. I would be happy for my guys to be focused on their coursework especially at the beginning.

[AK_Mom4]

DS24 attended a hugely lopsided school (about 80-20ish USAFA).   He had no trouble finding dates, but absolutely did not date fellow students - he found dates among the friends and siblings of classmates.

 

DD22 goes to a school with a pretty even split.  She started dating her current boyfriend as a freshman and will graduate in May.

 

DS20 attends a school that is 60-40 females to males.  He says it hasn't changed his dating practices much as he is mostly too busy to date these days.  Apparently there are plenty of females around, though....

 

I am sure not one of my kids considered the gender-balance important when picking schools.

[Pegasus]

I am the parent of two girls and dating is WAY down the list of priorities I want them to have while pursuing their college education.  DD19 is in a major that is heavily male dominated. While the classmate that she hangs out with most is female, she doesn't seem to have any trouble participating in class. She actually comments that sometimes she is the only one in the class that will speak up.

[OnMyOwn]

I guess it is a concern to me.  Even if I didn't want my dd dating in college, I do hope she will meet someone and get married someday.  For me, finding a partner to go through life with has been key to being happy and I hope both of my kids have that as well.  The pool of males who actually graduate from college to females is becoming very skewed.  I listened to a podcast about this (Freakonomics, I think) and they talked about how college educated females will usually not marry men who do not have a college education. They also said, in the past, there were many more men with degrees, but most did not have an issue with marrying a woman without a college education. 

[Granny_Weatherwax]

Unfortunately, these numbers are projected to increase.  There have been multiple studies and articles written about the feminization of American education and how young men (especially minority young men) are falling behind. Here are a few:

 

http://www.forbes.com/sites/ccap/2012/02/16/the-male-female-ratio-in-college/#473f4bbb1525

http://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2014/03/06/womens-college-enrollment-gains-leave-men-behind/

http://www.nber.org/digest/jan07/w12139.html

https://www.insidehighered.com/news/2013/02/21/new-book-explains-why-women-outpace-men-education

 

 

---

I've written and deleted multiple responses because the words are failing me this morning.  I will say, however, that we as a society need to look at other cultures where there have been similar trends (Japan, for instance) and determine if there will be similar long term effects here. 

 

 

 

 

[Granny_Weatherwax]

DP

 

 

Edited April 9, 2016 by ScoutermominIL

[Crimson Wife]

  I listened to a podcast about this (Freakonomics, I think) and they talked about how college educated females will usually not marry men who do not have a college education. 

 

I know a bunch of married couples where the wife has a degree while the husband doesn't. Typically the wife is a schoolteacher or in healthcare (nurse, ultrasound or x-ray technician, dental hygienist, etc.) while the husband works in the skilled trades. It's often easier for men to find a decent-paying job without a degree than it is for women (though certainly women COULD choose to enter the trades).

[OnMyOwn]

Unfortunately, these numbers are projected to increase. There have been multiple studies and articles written about the feminization of American education and how young men (especially minority young men) are falling behind. Here are a few:

 

http://www.forbes.com/sites/ccap/2012/02/16/the-male-female-ratio-in-college/#473f4bbb1525

http://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2014/03/06/womens-college-enrollment-gains-leave-men-behind/

http://www.nber.org/digest/jan07/w12139.html

https://www.insidehighered.com/news/2013/02/21/new-book-explains-why-women-outpace-men-education

 

 

---

I've written and deleted multiple responses because the words are failing me this morning. I will say, however, that we as a society need to look at other cultures where there have been similar trends (Japan, for instance) and determine if there will be similar long term effects here.

Interesting. I don't know the reason for the numbers, but I have to say that I have assumed it was simply related to the fact that so many boys seem to have some sort of neurological issue these days. It is rare that I meet a "typical" boy without some sort of learning disability, adhd or autism diagnosis. Every male in my own extended family has some sort of label. Most of the kids in my son's boy scout troop do as well. That is a subject I have given a lot of thought and worry to. Edited April 9, 2016 by OnMyOwn

[SkateLeft]

Nope. Doesn't bother me at all. I didn't send my girls off to college with the idea that they were going to meet their future husbands. Gender disparities aren't a factor in our application decisions at all.

Edited April 9, 2016 by ghostwheel

[Pegasus]

 gals all go into majors that are light on thinking. 

 

I'm not usually easily offended but I found this entire post highly insulting.  

[G5052]

The ratio is better now, but I ended up at a school that was 7:1 with quite a few more males than females. I was a transfer student, and past the first year, I was usually one of only 2-3 women in my classes if that. I am an outspoken, competitive person, and it never bothered me.

 

I think that it was very distracting for young women who weren't academically oriented. I got used to being firm that I wasn't there to socialize. I dated some, but not a lot. About 1/2 of my female friends met their spouses there, but it wasn't the great field for finding a partner that you might think it would be.

[Nan in Mass]

I can't speak to the girl aspect, but ds1 is at a lopsided school. He's pretty happy with it.:)

 

But one thing I have noticed, the maturity gap between guys and girls still exists, and the girls often look like rock stars compared to 18-20 year old guys. So sometimes that can impact not only the social scene but academic stuff too. Almost always in the girls' favor.

All three of mine are/were at lopsided schools. I was concerned about the dating but the schools were so obviously the only really workable ones for my boys that I just gave up on that idea. The dating part worked out ok. They all always seem to have someone they are seeing. And I have come to appreciate how realistic these "boy" schools are about the things their students can and cannot do. That was apparent within the first day of orientation. The schools have high expectations but offer what I consider a realistic amount of support to get them there.

 

Nan

[Mom22ns]

I have to admit to thinking about it. When dd looked at schools that were very skewed I cringed a little. Both my kids ended up in schools with a very slight skew. For ds, that is a good thing. Dd, well, I'm not worried about her. I might be concerned if it were a bigger skew though. I met dh in college and almost all my friends met their spouses in college. I know it isn't the only way, but it is a good place to meet someone and I do hope both of my kids find a life partner.

[bettyandbob]

Here, there are many more paths to high paying jobs for males that dont require a 4 year degree. The male will apply, finish his 2 year degree, then get the job. If he wants to advance he will finish a 4 year degree while on the job.

 

Agree with the feminization of K12. Math and science have plenty of gals, but they all go into majors that are heavy on memorizing, light on thinking. Guys are not interested in the artsy hw projects, even if they have the supplies to do them in the home. That small difference means gals are always the top 10 students here in class rank, but 9 of the 10 will not have the SAT or Regents scores to support that class rank. We had a good laugh with my younger son, as the top ranking boys all are at colleges where the val and sal would flunk out...and the parents know it. No cooking projects or art assignments, and the tests arent rote memorization. The reading is also on grade level, rather than the below grade level garbage full inclusion brought in, and the gals' low actual level is reflected in the low sat scores.the guys are much more accomplished in high school..either varsity athlete or job or both while self studying for AP exams in science (school doesnt offer that level).

Your experience sounds like more a reflection of your particular school than general state of affairs.

 

What degrees don't require "thinking"? I went to a liberal arts college (a public ivy). I majored in chemistry, but I can't think of any degree where my classmates could just get away with memorization.

 

Your school sounds like it is just lacking with no honors, AP,IB, or DE classes. My local high school has top graduates of both sexes going into STEM fields. The top graduates are always IB students, who took challenging classes and earned top grades.

 

I have never heard of classes where cooking or art projects counted for any amount of a grade outside of art classes or cooking classes. I could see a student bringing food as an aid to a presentation in a social studies where they had to explain the culture, the farming techniques, the effects of war or drought, ect. If that happened, the student wouldn't be graded on the food, but the presentation.

 

In 2 months, I will have a second graduate from the local high school. I have had DC there for 8 years now and I've never seen what you are saying. They don't name a valedictorian, but the top students male and female go to top schools and don't seem to flunk out. The only female I know who dropped out recently had mental health problems.

Edited April 10, 2016 by Diana P.

[Nan in Mass]

Feel I should add that having successfully discouraged our boys from learning about forming and keeping relationships in high school, and definitely feeling that college is a good time to figure this sort of thing out, all the classes our children have flunked can be traced directly to this or to a death in the family. Those of you who think college is not a good time to learn this have good reason. On the other hand, there isn,t really a good time. Problems at work if you put it off until after college are not good, either. And since ours are at schools with a fairly large gender gap and are still doing this, it obviously is going to happen no matter what. It isn,t something we ever thought we had much control over anyway, or tried to interfere with, other than pointing out that entanglements make life as a struggling teen even more complicated. They knew that their father and mother were seriously entangled at 16. Maybe that worried them. : )

 

Nan

Edited April 10, 2016 by Nan in Mass

[bettyandbob]

Its wonderful that you live in such a nice area, but you arent representative of public high school.we arent even at a tipping point in the nation of the majority of high school students having access to calc 1(or the path to get there) for ex.enjoy your wealth!

Are you suggesting that your district offering nothing is the norm? Your district may not be challenging students, but that doesn'tean it represents a norm for all. Some districts have a lot challenge. Some have a few AP type offerings. Offering nothing would not be the norm.

 

Additionally, your first post suggests only girls can handle "art" projects. That is not true. It also not true that girls are not capable of thinking beyond memorization.

[hornblower]

 

 
Math and science have plenty of gals, but they all go into majors that are heavy on memorizing, light on thinking.

Is this meant to be a slam on biology?

 

Women are well represented in bio but lag statistically in chem, physics, comp sci & engineering. They lag, but less so, in pure math & stats as well.  (stats are here: https://ngcproject.org/statistics) 

I agree with efforts to encourage women to enter all sciences but I don't like the biases against bio (having it presented as a softer science, more about memorization than thinking etc.) 

I also continue to be concerned that clearly in some schools and environments, there are subtle and overt messages sent to women & young girls that certain fields are 'not for them'.  So when Heigh Ho is reporting that this is where the girls end up, how much messaging are they receiving that their role is to churn out a nice poster board presentation, complete with scrapbooked borders, whereas the males can get away with a messier product because they're more "about the thinking"? 

At the same time, I think it's not ok to portray bio as a 'less than' subject. For that matter, it's  not ok to portray the humanities as 'less than'. 

 

(says the bio major turned poli sci major LOL ) 

 

 

 

[Crimson Wife]

As a parent, one of the last things I want is for my son to choose a mate this early in life.

 

In one of my psychology classes during my 1st degree, I read research showing that so long as the bride and groom were both at least 21 and neither had been previously married, there is actually NO correlation between age and marriage and divorce risk after controlling for income and education. A college graduate who marries at 22 has the exact same risk of divorce as a college graduate with the same income who marries at 32. The apparent correlation between age at marriage and divorce is actually a factor of the fact that poorer & less-educated people tend to marry younger than wealthier & more educated ones.

 

Now getting married before the age of 21 *IS* a risk factor for divorce independent of income & education, which is why I would encourage my children to wait at least that long.

[swimmermom3]

Unfortunately, these numbers are projected to increase. There have been multiple studies and articles written about the feminization of American education and how young men (especially minority young men) are falling behind. Here are a few:

 

http://www.forbes.com/sites/ccap/2012/02/16/the-male-female-ratio-in-college/#473f4bbb1525

http://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2014/03/06/womens-college-enrollment-gains-leave-men-behind/

http://www.nber.org/digest/jan07/w12139.html

https://www.insidehighered.com/news/2013/02/21/new-book-explains-why-women-outpace-men-education

 

 

---

I've written and deleted multiple responses because the words are failing me this morning. I will say, however, that we as a society need to look at other cultures where there have been similar trends (Japan, for instance) and determine if there will be similar long term effects here.

Thanks for posting this. The first part of the thread left me at a bit of a loss. The skewed ratios are just as important now as they were when skewed in the other direction. The rate of suicide and addiction are climbing dramatically in our young men, specifically those without college educations.

[Crimson Wife]

Oh, I'm not really worried about my kid getting divorced, I don't attach any stigma to that if it should happen, I just think college is a good time to develop friendships and experience healthy( safe) sexual relationships in a way that helps determine what characteristics are most important to him. I'd feel the same if it were my daughter.

 

You and I have different worldviews because I feel that the appropriate place for expressing sexuality is within marriage. Adults have free will and can make their own choices, but I would definitely not encourage my child "playing the field" prior to marriage.

 

[Gwen in VA]

I went to an all-women's college for my freshman year and then transferred to an engineering school that was (at the time) about 20% women. Honestly, FOR ME the gender ratio made no difference.

 

At the same time, my dd is in grad school, and in the class below hers 7 out of 8 of the students who have dropped out so far are female (and marriage / kids were not a factor in the decisions). As much as I tend to pooh-pooh gender discrimination, I find that number a bit discouraging. There are certainly gender factors that influence education.......

 

(And my dd just passed her defense last Friday -- in June she will receive a Ph.D. from the #2 program in the country in her field of engineering!!!!! )

[Tsuga]

Unfortunately, these numbers are projected to increase.  There have been multiple studies and articles written about the feminization of American education and how young men (especially minority young men) are falling behind. Here are a few:

 

http://www.forbes.com/sites/ccap/2012/02/16/the-male-female-ratio-in-college/#473f4bbb1525

http://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2014/03/06/womens-college-enrollment-gains-leave-men-behind/

http://www.nber.org/digest/jan07/w12139.html

https://www.insidehighered.com/news/2013/02/21/new-book-explains-why-women-outpace-men-education

 

 

---

I've written and deleted multiple responses because the words are failing me this morning.  I will say, however, that we as a society need to look at other cultures where there have been similar trends (Japan, for instance) and determine if there will be similar long term effects here. 

 

I wanted to post this as well.

 

The top male students can go to majority-male institutions, where women have a hard time but also get special programs, but for most men, it's biased towards women.

 

I don't think this is good for students but I don't know that in my family we can make it a priority.

 

Intentionally single-gender education is IMO a different question because it highlights intentional community and not institutional discrimination throughout a supposedly / aspirationally equitable system.

[Tsuga]

 

(And my dd just passed her defense last Friday -- in June she will receive a Ph.D. from the #2 program in the country in her field of engineering!!!!! )

 

Woot! Congrats!

[8circles]

Here, there are many more paths to high paying jobs for males that dont require a 4 year degree. The male will apply, finish his 2 year degree, then get the job. If he wants to advance he will finish a 4 year degree while on the job.

 

Agree with the feminization of K12. Math and science have plenty of gals, but they all go into majors that are heavy on memorizing, light on thinking. Guys are not interested in the artsy hw projects, even if they have the supplies to do them in the home. That small difference means gals are always the top 10 students here in class rank, but 9 of the 10 will not have the SAT or Regents scores to support that class rank. We had a good laugh with my younger son, as the top ranking boys all are at colleges where the val and sal would flunk out...and the parents know it. No cooking projects or art assignments, and the tests arent rote memorization. The reading is also on grade level, rather than the below grade level garbage full inclusion brought in, and the gals' low actual level is reflected in the low sat scores.the guys are much more accomplished in high school..either varsity athlete or job or both while self studying for AP exams in science (school doesnt offer that level).

 

Are you drunk?

[Nan in Mass]

You and I have different worldviews because I feel that the appropriate place for expressing sexuality is within marriage. Adults have free will and can make their own choices, but I would definitely not encourage my child "playing the field" prior to marriage.

 

There is an in between, something between playing the field (not something I would want, personally) and not getting to know anyone of the potential husband/wife gender well until marriage. I think my boys have needed to be close friends with a number of girls to figure out what sort of characteristics they need to look for in a lifelong mate. They didn,t initially think that the ability to go boating comfortably was a make-or-break thing, for example. We told them things like that mattered, but it was something they had to experience. Family pets and small children, the ability to keep each other amused forever, camping, parenting styles, etc. They have needed to spend a lot of time focused on one person to get these things figured out.

[Reefgazer]

I wouldn't care about this one bit, but the decision on whether to care or not will really be left up to DD.  I did mention a highly regarded women's college that lets students board horses while attending, because I thought that would grab her.  When she learned it was a women's college, she said to me "Oh, God, Mom, what would I do there?"  Maybe I should worry...

[Nan in Mass]

I wouldn't care about this one bit, but the decision on whether to care or not will really be left up to DD. I did mention a highly regarded women's college that lets students board horses while attending, because I thought that would grab her. When she learned it was a women's college, she said to me "Oh, God, Mom, what would I do there?" Maybe I should worry...

Lol lol lol

 

I nearly flunked all my classes senior year I decided that it might be fun to learn to ride as my gym class. It took a giant chunk out of my day and was so much fun I wasn,t particularly interested in doing anything else.

 

Nan

[plansrme]

Here, there are many more paths to high paying jobs for males that dont require a 4 year degree. The male will apply, finish his 2 year degree, then get the job. If he wants to advance he will finish a 4 year degree while on the job.

 

Agree with the feminization of K12. Math and science have plenty of gals, but they all go into majors that are heavy on memorizing, light on thinking. Guys are not interested in the artsy hw projects, even if they have the supplies to do them in the home. That small difference means gals are always the top 10 students here in class rank, but 9 of the 10 will not have the SAT or Regents scores to support that class rank. We had a good laugh with my younger son, as the top ranking boys all are at colleges where the val and sal would flunk out...and the parents know it. No cooking projects or art assignments, and the tests arent rote memorization. The reading is also on grade level, rather than the below grade level garbage full inclusion brought in, and the gals' low actual level is reflected in the low sat scores.the guys are much more accomplished in high school..either varsity athlete or job or both while self studying for AP exams in science (school doesnt offer that level).

 

My 18 yo daughter just called me to tell me that a research project she's been working on is now a week or two from being submitted for publication in some arcane (but prestigious, as these things go) math journal.  Her co-authors, four of whom she's never met, are: four women from West Point, a male professor from Georgia Tech, a male post-doc from Tech and a female post-doc from Tech.  And her, my 18 yo female DE student.  My 18 yo daughter who came up with some super-important part of this whole project that I would explain if I had any idea what she's talking about.  Is this what you mean by girls not being able to think?  

 

I don't doubt that there's a kernel of real complaint in there somewhere; sure, having to do poster presentations and scrapbooks for a math or science class is silly, but I haven't seen that in STEM classes here, so I don't know enough to opine on that.  But I DO know that girls are not all destined for majors that are "light on thinking." 

[Granny_Weatherwax]

I wouldn't care about this one bit, but the decision on whether to care or not will really be left up to DD.  I did mention a highly regarded women's college that lets students board horses while attending, because I thought that would grab her.  When she learned it was a women's college, she said to me "Oh, God, Mom, what would I do there?"  Maybe I should worry...

I attended a highly regarded women's college that allows students to board horses.  If it's the same one, there are three schools within a few miles that have more than enough men to keep a young woman occupied.

[Wheres Toto]

_{My oldest is about to graduate with her bachelor's degree from a state university that is very strong in the performing arts.  Her degree is in Psychology and Criminal Justice with a minor in Dance.  Her school is skewed about 60/40 in favor of females.  But, the male population runs about 30% homosexual.   Just to point out that those ratios might not give you the entire picture.   I guess I'm glad that finding a mate wasn't even on the radar when picking out a school.} 

[Nan in Mass]

My 18 yo daughter just called me to tell me that a research project she's been working on is now a week or two from being submitted for publication in some arcane (but prestigious, as these things go) math journal. Her co-authors, four of whom she's never met, are: four women from West Point, a male professor from Georgia Tech, a male post-doc from Tech and a female post-doc from Tech. And her, my 18 yo female DE student. My 18 yo daughter who came up with some super-important part of this whole project that I would explain if I had any idea what she's talking about. Is this what you mean by girls not being able to think?

 

I don't doubt that there's a kernel of real complaint in there somewhere; sure, having to do poster presentations and scrapbooks for a math or science class is silly, but I haven't seen that in STEM classes here, so I don't know enough to opine on that. But I DO know that girls are not all destined for majors that are "light on thinking."

Totally agree with you on the girls can think and boys can be crafty, so please don,t misunderstand me here, but I think maybe Heigh Ho was just trying to say that when schools reward some of the behaviours that are typically easier for more girls than boys at a young age (like sitting still) and then lack a good sorting system for determining who is cut out for university STEM programs (like upper math classes) then some girls may wind up trying university programs that are not a good fit. And some boys who would be good at them may wind up missing out because they developed a hatred of school in kindergarten because it was sedentary that never wore off. Or something like that. I,m not saying that I agree or disagree with that, just trying to clarify.

 

I watched the efforts of our science museum to interest younger girls in circuits by offering them things to build that did not involve either fighting or racing cars, like musical instruments. They certainly caught me lol. The applications of technology are widespread and the equal capabilities of women have been well proven. I think some of the gender disparity in tech schools has to do with the advertising that is done at a young age. And I think a lot is because until fairly recently, girls were discouraged from pursuing many of the STEM careers, even in families that gave them full credit for their intellectual abilities. One of my grandmothers wanted to be a doctor and the other an engineer. In both cases, their families discouraged them, not because they thought they couldn,t do it (they were sent to good colleges) but because their families knew they would be subjected to much unpleasantness working in such male dominated fields and wanted to spare them from that. Our culture is taking a few generations to recover from such things.

 

Nan

[swimmermom3]

I believe that all of the eight schools that ds applied to had a skew of at least 60% female and 40% male.  He also noted that several of the schools have scholarships for women, but none specifically for men.  My understanding was that many of the scholarships geared towards women were created in order to encourage more women to attend college. Now that the trend is reversed, can we expect to see scholarships encouraging men to go to school?

[Janeway]

Especially if you are the parent of a girl, does it bother you, or are you pleased, to see lopsided male/female ratios at so many schools?  We are finding a lot of schools with 60/40 splits, and one that even has somewhere between 65/35 and 70/30, always with more women than men.  On the one hand, I think it is entirely natural for girls to want to date during this period of their lives, and having two girls for every guy is going to complicate that a bit.  On the other hand, there are all those stats about how women participate in class more when there are fewer men, etc.  So, especially if you have a girl at one of these lopsided schools, does she think it affects the class dynamic?  Or is everyone so gender neutral these days that no one notices?

I would not want my child to go to a school with a big gender spread where there are way more students of the same gender of my child. I went to a university that was about 70/30 boys to girls. My brother was miserable. I had no problem getting a date no matter how I looked. I could skip my hair, make up, heck, shower if I wanted, and get a date. I did not have to even be a good person. I am not saying I wasn't, but there was no competition at all. And the guys, most of them graduated without even able to get dates in college or having to date someone awful. My brother had one young woman he ever dated and she was a complete train wreck. She dropped out eventually after she got a role on the Rocky Horror Picture show someplace, a local production in the city. But sheesh! I can only imagine if he had stayed with her. Not that it turned out that much better. But he left college after having not met anyone, went to in a STEM field so not many women. 

 

I would strongly advise against it to my children. I would tell them why. In the end, it would be their decision. But that is it. That is how it would be.

[Janeway]

I believe that all of the eight schools that ds applied to had a skew of at least 60% female and 40% male.  He also noted that several of the schools have scholarships for women, but none specifically for men.  My understanding was that many of the scholarships geared towards women were created in order to encourage more women to attend college. Now that the trend is reversed, can we expect to see scholarships encouraging men to go to school?

I think we need to rid of all the antiquated race based, gender based, blah-blah based grants and scholarships and focus on income based. Money is so limited and the idea that someone won't go to college just because of their race or gender or religion, etc, but would if they had money, is just invalid. It needs to be based strictly on income.

[Wheres Toto]

Despite the gender gap at her school, my dd hasn't had any trouble finding dates.  She's currently dating a boy from another school in the area that she met through an activity with the branch of his fraternity at her school.  BUT, she's also perfectly fine not dating at all if there is nobody that interests her.  She didn't really date at all last year.  She was extremely busy with work, an internship, sorority, dance team, classes, and hanging out with friends.

 

I definitely don't want any of my children to feel like they need to settle for someone they don't like, or who isn't a nice person just to be dating someone.  No, no, no, no, no.   I'd much rather they be comfortable being single until they find someone they feel is worth the effort.  I do not fall into the "only date someone you might marry" category but I want them to have some standards.

[daijobu]

 

At the same time, my dd is in grad school, and in the class below hers 7 out of 8 of the students who have dropped out so far are female (and marriage / kids were not a factor in the decisions). As much as I tend to pooh-pooh gender discrimination, I find that number a bit discouraging. There are certainly gender factors that influence education.......

 

(And my dd just passed her defense last Friday -- in June she will receive a Ph.D. from the #2 program in the country in her field of engineering!!!!! )

 

Congratuations to your dd!  And can we drill down on those female drop outs?  Any possibility they received lucrative offers outside of academia that lured them away from their PhD program?   Or is there something going on (misogynist on the faculty), that your own dd escaped?  

 

What sort of women thrives in a high male environment, while others feel isolated?  

 

Or is Vi Hart right about gender segregation?

[Reefgazer]

With her boy crazy attitude, she needs a convent, LOL!  Were these schools in Virginia?

I attended a highly regarded women's college that allows students to board horses.  If it's the same one, there are three schools within a few miles that have more than enough men to keep a young woman occupied.

 

[creekland]

In one of my psychology classes during my 1st degree, I read research showing that so long as the bride and groom were both at least 21 and neither had been previously married, there is actually NO correlation between age and marriage and divorce risk after controlling for income and education. A college graduate who marries at 22 has the exact same risk of divorce as a college graduate with the same income who marries at 32. The apparent correlation between age at marriage and divorce is actually a factor of the fact that poorer & less-educated people tend to marry younger than wealthier & more educated ones.

 

Now getting married before the age of 21 *IS* a risk factor for divorce independent of income & education, which is why I would encourage my children to wait at least that long.

 

Interesting.  I was three weeks short of my 21st birthday when hubby and I got married.  He had just graduated college and I had a year left to go.  27+ years later we're still quite happily defying odds even though there was never any other guy I even remotely got close to on a very inner circle level.   :coolgleamA:

 

But in my college Physics classes I was fairly often the only gal.  Didn't bug me at all.  In the Corps of Cadets (at VT) there weren't all that many gals.  It didn't bug any of us at all.  

 

I suspect personality plays a huge part in whether it matters or not.

[Granny_Weatherwax]

With her boy crazy attitude, she needs a convent, LOL!  Were these schools in Virginia?

No, not VA. I attended a school in MA.  A lovely, lovely place.  

 

Although, I do like VA, too.

[Granny_Weatherwax]

Interesting.  I was three weeks short of my 21st birthday when hubby and I got married.  He had just graduated college and I had a year left to go.  27+ years later we're still quite happily defying odds even though there was never any other guy I even remotely got close to on a very inner circle level.   :coolgleamA:

 

<snip>

Me too.  We married my junior year.  We've been married 25 years now.  

 

Our marriage has lasted but I have made sacrifices which would not have been made if I had waited a bit longer.

[creekland]

Me too.  We married my junior year.  We've been married 25 years now.  

 

Our marriage has lasted but I have made sacrifices which would not have been made if I had waited a bit longer.

 

My path changed considerably due to getting married, but I love the path I ended up on, so who's to say it's not better than the one I was on?  I know I was mostly a loner with friends throughout my youth and after really getting to know hubby I have a superb BFF, so I've no regrets about the change.  Life is really enhanced with a BFF (at least for me).

 

I think, for most, paths change at least somewhat with marriage in order to make the two one - compromises and all.  Hubby's path changed quite a bit too.  We absolutely love the one we've forged together and are glad we were able to get an early start on it - no wishes that we had waited at all.

 

This is not the same as suggesting everyone should marry early.  It all depends upon when one meets that someone special and it is good to make sure that isn't based upon just hormones as hormones can/will wear off.  Hubby and I were in the Corps of Cadets together and traveled together and did several activities together on a regular basis.  We saw each other for a bit more than just dates.  We tend to have the same values and mostly the same loves.  Then too, he's a great guy.  I got lucky.

[Gwen in VA]

 

 

And can we drill down on those female drop outs?  Any possibility they received lucrative offers outside of academia that lured them away from their PhD program?   Or is there something going on (misogynist on the faculty), that your own dd escaped?  

 

What sort of women thrives in a high male environment, while others feel isolated?

 

Great question! Dd and I were thinking it would be fascinating to get some sociology grad students to follow some engineering students over the course of their grad school careers (of course, multiple schools and multiple research groups but only one discipline to reduce some of the outside unknowns), asking about things ranging from:

 

1) How prepared were they for grad school? (Academics)

2) How much outside support did they have? (Prior mentors, family support)

3) Finances?

4) Boyfriends/girlfriends? Present or absent? Support?

 

And then follow these students through grad school -- when did they feel supported, when did they feel awful? Why did some students decide to drop out and others stay in? How easily did they find a research group? What was the gender ratio in the group? how supportive was it?

 

It would be fascinating, but (like most research) the more we thought about this study, the more complicated it became.

 

BTW, dd's research group is mostly female (?!?!?!?!?) and her prof is NOT a workaholic. He takes time off to support his kids' activities, and he doesn't encourage work over the weekends. And she had a very supportive mentor from college. And..... ultimately she worked amazingly hard to finish her dissertation, but so many things that she couldn't control ALSO went right for her. We are thankful.

[Caroline]

Great question! Dd and I were thinking it would be fascinating to get some sociology grad students to follow some engineering students over the course of their grad school careers (of course, multiple schools and multiple research groups but only one discipline to reduce some of the outside unknowns), asking about things ranging from:

 

1) How prepared were they for grad school? (Academics)

2) How much outside support did they have? (Prior mentors, family support)

3) Finances?

4) Boyfriends/girlfriends? Present or absent? Support?

 

And then follow these students through grad school -- when did they feel supported, when did they feel awful? Why did some students decide to drop out and others stay in? How easily did they find a research group? What was the gender ratio in the group? how supportive was it?

 

It would be fascinating, but (like most research) the more we thought about this study, the more complicated it became.

 

BTW, dd's research group is mostly female (?!?!?!?!?) and her prof is NOT a workaholic. He takes time off to support his kids' activities, and he doesn't encourage work over the weekends. And she had a very supportive mentor from college. And..... ultimately she worked amazingly hard to finish her dissertation, but so many things that she couldn't control ALSO went right for her. We are thankful.

I do know that University of Wisconsin did a study about why women with PhDs in engineering are no longer practicing. I was one of the participants. But I would like to see your study done, too. It wasn't my experience that women dropped out in bigger numbers than men, but I might not have been paying close attention. There were very few women in my program in the 1990's.