Any suggestions for writing program?

[AnthemLights]

Quick question for my almost 11 year old son.  Dyslexia, Dyscalculia, Dysgraphia.  We have been doing Barton's.  Working on level 4, which I have heard is really hard, but it is going surprisingly well.   :thumbup1:  We are going to work through summer and hopefully get done by the beginning of 2016 - 2017 school year.  I am trying to think what comes next?  Especially with writing or grammar.

 

So far we have had no formal training in either.  He has a great vocab, listens to tons of audio books, loves to tell stories.  However his writing is very laborious so i have never tried to do any work with him before.  We are looking into typing and also speech to text for next year, so hopefully with a couple of accommodations we can start working on some things that have been neglected up until now.

 

So, I guess my question would be - What would you all recommend for a writing program?  I am intrigued by Susan Bauer's Writing courses, but have not used them before, just checked them out online.  I've also seen IEW and Writing Strands mentioned, but again - I have no experience with either of them.  Can anybody weigh in on some ideas, suggestions?

 

Thanks in advance,

Jen

[Guest]

Essentials in Writing   http://www.essentialsinwriting.com

[AnthemLights]

EIW....okay that's what I meant.  Is that what you would recommend?

[Pen]

Look at Bravewriter, and also IEW. Either might be a fit for him depending on his situation. Personally I'd avoid Writing Strands.

 

Separate composition skill from physical act of writing.

[OneStepAtATime]

I really recommend IEW TWSS/SWI coupled with Fix-It Grammar and TouchTypeReadSpell for typing. Short lessons, clearly laid out, lots of teacher support, and very systematic. Scribe for him where necessary. Fix-It is only 15 minutes a day 4 days a week.

 

Start typing as soon as you can. The TTRS typing program pairs very well with Barton and is usually available at a significant discount through Homeschool Buyer's Co-op. It will probably take a long time for typing skills to have any real automaticity so plan on a significant amount of time working on that skill before it can be used for any real output. Make absolutely certain that you sit near him during typing lessons to make sure he has proper finger placement and body posture and that he is making the corect key strokes. If he learns it incorrectly it is a LOT harder to try to unlearn then have to relearn instead of just learning it the right way the first time. Make this a hill to die on. Proper finger placement, proper posture, proper key strokes. Use whatever incentives you need. If he has not typed it will probably feel very wrong. The more he does it and does it correctly the sooner his typing skills will start to improve and the sonner it will start to feel "right". Do typing at least 5 days a week to build up muscle memory. Keep him using the same keyboard in the same location at the same height (what feels most comfortable) at least initially to help develop proper key strokes/posture. Keep lessons short so you don't frustrate or burn him out. Do NOT emphasize speed. Only work on accuracy for now. Speed will eventually come if accuracy is emphasized first.

 

And keep in mind that some dysgraphics can't learn to type or at least not very efficiently but many do. It frequently takes them much longer than an NT kid, but they can do it with lots of consistent practice.

[AnthemLights]

OneStep - Thanks for the encouragement to start with TTRS.   Different ones have recommended that program.  I was planning on starting next school year but maybe I should consider working on it during the summer. :001_smile:

 

Question __what is the difference between IEW TWSS and SWI.  I was on their website and I don't get the difference between the two.  They are both writing programs for the targeted ages, right?  Maybe I need more coffee.   :confused1:

[sbgrace]

OneStep - Thanks for the encouragement to start with TTRS.   Different ones have recommended that program.  I was planning on starting next school year but maybe I should consider working on it during the summer. :001_smile:

 

Question __what is the difference between IEW TWSS and SWI.  I was on their website and I don't get the difference between the two.  They are both writing programs for the targeted ages, right?  Maybe I need more coffee.   :confused1:

 

If I can jump in, I would start keyboarding work now. You want him able to keyboard without looking at his hands for the keys. It takes a while to develop the skill to the point where looking at your hands isn't a temptation. You could work on the speech to text at the same time? Those would be type priorities if I were in your place.

 

I like the idea of IEW for him. You can scribe/write for him, and that's how I would handle the program until I got speech to text and/or keyboarding skills in place.

 

If you want to try that program, you could start with level B SWI. This is the course to teach your child directly. The TWSS is to teach the teacher. It's good, but not mandatory if money is a factor. You can learn along with him by watching the SWI. The SWI is the first student instruction course in the program. There will be a level B continuation course you can follow with if the program is working. IEW has a really great return policy, so it's not a big risk.

 

I don't know if I would add Fix It yet. But if you do, you can definitely write his verbally given corrections on the paper for him. He doesn't have to copy the corrected sentences to benefit from the program, and I wouldn't have him do that until/if he can keyboard by touch so it's not a labor intensive thing for him. 

[OneStepAtATime]

OneStep - Thanks for the encouragement to start with TTRS.   Different ones have recommended that program.  I was planning on starting next school year but maybe I should consider working on it during the summer. :001_smile:

 

Question __what is the difference between IEW TWSS and SWI.  I was on their website and I don't get the difference between the two.  They are both writing programs for the targeted ages, right?  Maybe I need more coffee.   :confused1:

As sbgrace said, TWSS is the teacher support system for the same program as SWI.  TWSS is for the teacher to watch to learn the program and be able to teach it.  SWI is for the student so the student watches it to learn how to do the program.  Some prefer to just get TWSS and some prefer to get just SWI and some pair both (if money is not a big issue) but it is the same program.  

 

There are three different levels, A, B, and C, but those are developmental/grade levels not levels of progression.  Level A is really more for elementary.  Level B is frequently used in Middle School but could easily be used for a High School student with LDs.  Level C is usually for High School level students.  All three levels are the same program but are just geared more towards a certain age range.  If you finish TWSS/SWI - B you would not go on to C since it is the same program.  You could go from there to the continuation program, either using B or C level of that if TWSS/SWI- B worked well.  There are other writing programs from IEW that are also good that you could follow up the primary program with if you wanted.  

 

I agree, start typing now.  Keep it consistent, maybe even at the same time every day, not just the same location and keyboard.  Do it through the summer.  Don't take a really long break or there will probably be a lot of regression.  Very frustrating for the student.

[AnthemLights]

Ah, okay, I got it.  Thank you all for clarifying all that for me.

 

Not sure what to do with the typing.  I KNOW I should start as soon as possible, but we are already doing Barton's and math through the summer.  If I add in typing, then he doesn't get much of a summer break.   :crying:

 

But maybe that's just the way it has to be.  I'll have to figure it out.

 

 

[sbgrace]

That is a lot for summer.

 

Could he do just 15 pr so minutes a day on keyboarding? The consistency is more important than the length of time each day. I'd invest in a keyboard cover of some sort if you can while he's learning. It just takes a while for that skill to develop, and even more when there are underlying issues like your son. It will open up so much for him, though, if he can master it.

[OneStepAtATime]

The typing lessons in TTRS are short. Sometimes maybe 10 minutes. Somwtimes maybe less, sometimes maybe, more depending on the lesson but never more than 15 minutes. Maybe just do 4 days a week starting now and going through the summer then increase to 5 days a week in the fall.

 

Honestly? I would not worry about him looking at his hands right now. It may take time for him to get used to where to place his hands and you need to be able to watch his hands. I never used anything to cover the kids' hands. Eventually, just through consistent lessons, they stopped needing to look at their hands. Looking in the beginning ensured they were keeping their hands properly placed.

[Heathermomster]

My DS is 2e with 3 SLDs as well.  DS learned to write using IEW for three years.  We have since shifted from IEW and switched over to EIW.  DS knows how to write a basic paragraph and use active voice with a descriptive adjectives and varied sentence structure.  We are now focusing on research papers and more advanced writing.  Prior to any writing instruction, I suggest you watch this webinar by Dr. Charles Haynes.

 

I taught DS to type during the 2nd half of 5th grade.  For my family, typing provides DS with the ability to integrate into a regular classroom and complete his work independently, at or above grade level.  Gird your loins because teaching typing is never going to be easy or convenient.  My DS learned to type while still receiving Wilson tutoring two hours per week.  Depending upon the severity of the dysgraphia, your child may struggle and resort to some sort of adapted typing; however, you won't know until you try.

 

IRL, I know several teenagers who refused to learn to type because their parents couldn't handle or were not prepared for the push back.  Typing is a significant life skill for a dysgraphic, so my suggestion is don't delay typing instruction.  Maybe set up an ergonomic workstation and allow your child to select a comfortable keyboard.  My DS was not allowed to see his hands while learning to type, and he knew that when we started instruction.  A close family friend discussed her experience learning to type with DS over dinner one evening, and strangely enough, that knowledge helped DS to persevere.  I set the WPM down very low, and he practiced typing 20 minutes per day immediately following breakfast.  He took a short break after 10 minutes and did this for 5 days a week.  I rewarded for good attitude and behavior.  As a 10th grader, the payoff with typing has been tremendous.  

 

I am a huge EverNote fan at present because it works across multiple platforms.  DH, DS, and I carry Android phones while my 8 yo uses an IPod.  My DD has some motor planning issues so is still using a whiteboard for spelling and dictation work.  DD takes pictures of her work using her IPod.  She also talks into her IPod and dictates her own narrations.  With her IPod and EverNote, DD can share her work with me.  From my pc, we can read and edit the narrations.  From my phone, I can send both of the kids check lists and instructions using the app.  

 

Anyhoo...I just wanted to mention the EverNote app.  OneNote and countless other apps are likely available.  It is just good to start considering how to personalize available technology and make it work for your family.

 

 

[OneStepAtATime]

As Heathermomster said, keep the wpm requirement really, really low if you use a program that has a wpm setting.   Accuracy is far more important than speed and without accuracy speed will be irrelevant.  If a student is constantly having to go back to correct typing errors they will get terribly frustrated and may quit.  

 

As mentioned, expect pushback.  This can be a VERY challenging skill to acquire.  Think of it like a musical instrument.  Without consistent, daily practice there may never be proficiency, just frustration.  Without proficiency it can't really be a useful tool for doing other things (in the case of a musical instrument it would be playing for pleasure or with others or in performances; with typing it gives the proficient user the ability to write quickly for both academic/business pursuits as well as pleasure writing without getting bogged down in handwriting deficits).

 

That is one reason I love TTRS.  No wpm requirement and no accuracy requirement.  It tracks the wpm and the accuracy but the student is not penalized for a low wpm or less than 100% accuracy.  Some typing programs penalize the student.  If you get a typing program that has a wpm or an accuracy requirement don't buy it unless you can adjust the wpm and even the accuracy setting.  You want accuracy but if the accuracy setting is at 100% your child may not get past the first lesson.  If they can have a bit of success they will be more likely to want to keep going.  You can always adjust accuracy settings and wpm settings later, as they get more proficient.

 

I know some parents do well just having their child practice typing without using a typing program.  I needed a typing program.  1.  I needed something already laid out that I didn't have to worry about.  2.  The kids responded better to a typing program than just me telling them to type something.  3.  The kids liked seeing their progress.  They are only competing against themselves, not other students, so it is a lot less pressure but they still liked having a bit of competition and the ability to see it all laid out in interesting charts.  4.  TTRS pairs so well with Barton it is reinforcing what they are learning in their reading/writing/spelling.

 

There are a lot of good typing programs out there.  Hopefully you can find one that makes you both happy.  We started with Type to Learn 4 and it was fun, lots of typing games, etc.  The wpm and accuracy requirements were a pain, though.  I was able to adjust them but certain games were timed and had accuracy requirements that the kids really struggled to meet.  It demoralized them at times.  TTRS is not nearly as fun but it gets done, they rarely complain, it is helping them with reading/spelling/writing and they are definitely getting better and better with their typing.

[AnthemLights]

Heather, I don't have time to respond to everything right now - just wanted to say that I finished reading "The Dyslexic Advantage" in the past couple of weeks.  Such an amazing, inspiring book.  I didn't realize they had a website.  I will definitely check it out.  So thanks for that.   :hurray:

[1shortmomto4]

Well I'm going to give you a suggestion that I never see - check out http://thewritefoundation.org/ I've had great success with this program.  I like that it encourages them to type the lesson.  It is gradual and lots of practice.  It sets the student up to succeed and build confidence.  I've also had a great rate of retention with EIW.  I think it has a lot to do with repetition.  Dyslexics (most) need wash, rinse, repeat and sometimes many times over.  I've not had any luck with IEW here but I have been using Fix It grammar and it is going well, too although I found better retention using the Evan Moore edit the sentence a day (done on the white board) excellent, too.  It is interesting to note that in college, if the student takes a placement test, the test is to edit a long essay so the exposure to Fix It and editing sentences (there are lots of other options) was extremely helpful to one of my two older college kiddos.

[Heathermomster]

Heather, I don't have time to respond to everything right now - just wanted to say that I finished reading "The Dyslexic Advantage" in the past couple of weeks.  Such an amazing, inspiring book.  I didn't realize they had a website.  I will definitely check it out.  So thanks for that.   :hurray:

UGH!  The video is now private.  I'm so sorry.  

[AnthemLights]

UGH!  The video is now private.  I'm so sorry.  

 

Shoot!   :glare:

 

Well, I am sure that the website will still prove to be very informative, so thanks.

[AnthemLights]

Well I'm going to give you a suggestion that I never see - check out http://thewritefoundation.org/ I've had great success with this program.  I like that it encourages them to type the lesson.  It is gradual and lots of practice.  It sets the student up to succeed and build confidence.  I've also had a great rate of retention with EIW.  I think it has a lot to do with repetition.  Dyslexics (most) need wash, rinse, repeat and sometimes many times over.  I've not had any luck with IEW here but I have been using Fix It grammar and it is going well, too although I found better retention using the Evan Moore edit the sentence a day (done on the white board) excellent, too.  It is interesting to note that in college, if the student takes a placement test, the test is to edit a long essay so the exposure to Fix It and editing sentences (there are lots of other options) was extremely helpful to one of my two older college kiddos.

 

I checked out the link.  It looks very simple and do-able.  I also really like the Fix-It grammar.  It sounds like something that would really appeal to my DS.  Getting to "fix" other people's mistakes.   :lol:

[AnthemLights]

So, everyone thanks for all the advice.  I've settled on some things, still thinking about others.

 

1.  Definitely TTRS.  I like how much it (reportedly) goes along with Barton's.  Any reinforcement in that area is greatly appreciated.  Starting ASAP.  Little chunks.

2.  Fix-It.  Next year.  Probably.  Not a hundred percent sure that we are ready for grammar work, but I think that's the program I am going to go with if we are.

3.  The actual writing program - not sure.  I need to spend a couple of days researching suggestions.

 

But, thanks all. You are so helpful.    :grouphug: