STEM track requires/suggests algebra in 7th??

[lamolina]

Hi- I am sure this depends on the kid and their ultimate plans but as a rule, is this true? Currently my 9 year old is set to be in algebra in 8th and we could very, very easily get him to algebra in 7th but I am wondering if this is smart, necessary, or not recommended?? FWIW i expect he will be interested in engineering or something STEM.

 

I have seen some old threads discussing this but it seems like schools are changing with CC and not doing algebra until 9th. 

 

thanks for your thoughts and been there done that stories!

[8filltheheart]

I am not sure where you are reading that kids heading toward the STEM majors must have alg by 7th, but that defies even most graduation avgs of most US schools.  That would suggest that it is a norm that schools offer math beyond cal BC, and that is just not the case.  What you typically see happening is that schools don't offer math beyond BC, so they are requiring a full yr of cal AB followed by a full yr of cal BC.  That is completely unnecessary.

 

The "standard" (if there is such a thing) for the majority of schools is probably more like

8th: alg 1

9th: geo

10th:alg 2

11th: precal

12th: cal AB or cal BC  (when a student can enter directly into BC from precal, it means that AB and BC are taught within the single academic yr.)

 

FWIW, I think 9 yo is way to young to predict what a student will be doing in high school.  I have had a 9 yr old completing 5th grade math and then taking alg by 10.  He graduated from high school with 3 semesters of math beyond BC.   Kids change a ton between 9 and their mid-teens.  One that grabs the wheel might take off.  Another who never slowed down with elementary math might struggle when they start hitting more abstract concepts.

 

The best gift any young student can receive is a rock solid foundation spread out over as long as it takes for them personally.

[Arcadia]

For homeschooling it doesn't matter. If your child is ready before 7th there is no point holding him back. If your child is not ready at 8th, there is no point rushing because he can double up in 10th/11th/12th by dual enrollment in community college if he want to.

 

STEM is a wide category. Whether your child does algebra in 7th/8th/9th doesn't matter as long as your child has full mastery. You can read any of Regentrude's old posts on algebra proficiency for college physics.

 

For B&M school the prereq for science is the math the child has completed and there is less flexibility depending on the school.

 

My district is already using CC materials for years and still stick with Algebra 1 CC in 7th for the "faster" kids and Algebra 1 CC in 8th for the rest. For a public school child who is ready for Algebra 1 in 7th, it makes doing algebra based physics in 8th easier as the math is done instead of concurrent. Same goes for doing AP Physics C after AP Calculus AB/BC instead of concurrent. Middle school and high school kids in public school has a more rigid lockstep sequence than homeschoolers.

[lamolina]

It does matter for us because we use a homeschool hybrid program. If he gets off track from what they offer or I decide to use an alternative curriculum, then he would no longer be able to take math at the school. I am fine with that but we can't be going back and forth, so therefore I need to look ahead to his high school math before I make decisions now. He is about to finish up 5th grade math now. 

[EndOfOrdinary]

I think what previous posters are getting at is that there is no standard. Unfortunately, math is mot a subject which can be rudhed without rather drastic consequences down the road. If your son is on track fir algebra in 8th, great. He will do fine. If he makes big jumps in PreA (which is incredibly common as many math savvy students do not need a full year of sixth grade math and PreA) then great.

 

Make sure he really knows his stuff, so his foundation is strong. Make doublly sure you do not keep him in a holding pattern merely based upon his age. When he is ready for more, give him more. If he hits a glitch, slow him down. Regardless of what your hybrid wants, the best way to crush a STEM enthused kid is to not consider their individual learning pursuits. It is not one size fits all and most importantly, it is not linear.

[FawnsFunnyFarm]

My oldest went back to PS in 6th grade on a STEM track, he took Pre-Alg in 6th and Alg in 7th. Their Alg had several different tracks though.  For many of the kids who began Alg in 7th it would take them 3 years to get through Alg 1 & 2 instead of just one year for each.  ODS took the full Alg 1 in 7th grade and passed the "Keystone Exam" which is an exit exam all high schoolers in our state are supposed to pass to graduate.  My next 2 kids would not make it through this rigorous course.. even the one of those 2 who is very mathy (he simply couldn't handle the strain of the workload), my 4th kiddo... who knows where he will be in a few years, but he instantly gets math and doesn't have to work at it like the oldest.

 

I would not push a kid who is not truely ready to advance so much in math.  Honestly, I tried to get ODS to slow down.  Burn out is real in high school, it's becoming more and more common with all these advanced classes that used to be tackled in college.  Instead of worrying about pushing ahead, it's important to consider the personal well-being of your kiddo. There will always be higher math courses, even if he doesn't get to them until college.

Edited April 2, 2016 by FawnsFunnyFarm

[Melissa B]

Our local school has an "advanced engineering track" that starts in 7th grade. Students take advanced algebra over two years in 7th and 8th grade and take advanced geometry in 8th as an elective. Then they are ready to begin advanced algebra 2 in 9th grade.

[lamolina]

Thanks so much everyone. I am just struggling becasue it is either leave him in Saxon at the hybrid where he would have Course 1, Course 2, and Course 3 all before he gets to Algebra, or not send him there for math and make our own plan. I like him having the structure of the class but all the review of Saxon seems like such a waste of his time. He has a 97 in the class with very little help from me, it just comes easily to him and it clicks. It always has. 

 

So, I definitely do not want to push him but I also don't want him to not get to do what he is capable of, just because of what a school offers.

[Lori D.]

First, totally agreeing with previous posters about the key is making sure your student is solid in the foundations before moving on to the higher maths, and that moving into the higher maths should be determined by you when you see that DS is ready for it.

 

That said, I get that you have to make a decision at least for the coming year whether or not to do math with your hybrid.

 

Thanks so much everyone. I am just struggling becasue it is either leave him in Saxon at the hybrid where he would have Course 1, Course 2, and Course 3 all before he gets to Algebra, or not send him there for math and make our own plan. I like him having the structure of the class but all the review of Saxon seems like such a waste of his time. He has a 97 in the class with very little help from me, it just comes easily to him and it clicks. It always has. 

 

So, I definitely do not want to push him but I also don't want him to not get to do what he is capable of, just because of what a school offers.

 

Suggestion: This sounds like a great year to try something else at home and see how it goes. The math would still be at a level where you would be able to assist as needed, and it would give your DS a chance to try a math program that may be less "rote" and more of an interesting challenge to him. And, he's far enough ahead that if he really does do best with Saxon and with the hybrid classroom setting, it wouldn't be too problematic to return to that option the following year.

 

I'd suggest doing math at home with Art of Problem Solving (AoPS): Beast Academy 4, or with Singapore 4A/B and 5A/B. Both programs focus on developing problem-solving and encouraging math connections/math thinking. Some of the concepts may be review/repeat, but they will be worked with in a very different way than Saxon. And, just due to the different scope and sequence of the different Math programs, your DS will also have exposure to new concepts, too.

 

If DS takes off with AoPS, there are online classes starting with Pre-Algebra, so you can still outsource with good guidance. For Singapore, the primary levels stop at 6A/B, and most people switch over to something else for Pre-Algebra and the higher maths. Singapore does have secondary math through their Dimensions texts (or the now-out-of-print New Elementary Math), but there are no classes or other supports for the higher maths with Singapore.

 

If you find these options don't work for DS, or if he prefers Saxon, you can always switch back. As you say, there is so much review in Saxon that your DS would very likely jump back in without too much effort.

 

Finally, if you decide to press on next year with Saxon and the hybrid at the brisker pace, if your DS starts to "hit the wall" at some point in the next few years and you see that it would NOT be a good idea to try and keep up with the pace for doing Algebra 1 in 7th, you can always pull him from the hybrid's Math class at THAT time and go at whatever pace works best for DS at home. There are lots of supports for Saxon for doing it at home or with an online class. :)

 

BEST of luck in deciding what path works best for Math for your DS in the coming year, and in the future. :) Warmest regards, Lori D.

 

Edited April 2, 2016 by Lori D.

[Arcadia]

So, I definitely do not want to push him but I also don't want him to not get to do what he is capable of, just because of what a school offers.

When my boys were with public charter, we after school with aops.

[Alessandra]

I am not sure where you are reading that kids heading toward the STEM majors must have alg by 7th, but that defies even most graduation avgs of most US schools. That would suggest that it is a norm that schools offer math beyond cal BC, and that is just not the case. What you typically see happening is that schools don't offer math beyond BC, so they are requiring a full yr of cal AB followed by a full yr of cal BC. That is completely unnecessary.

 

The "standard" (if there is such a thing) for the majority of schools is probably more like

8th: alg 1

9th: geo

10th:alg 2

11th: precal

12th: cal AB or cal BC (when a student can enter directly into BC from precal, it means that AB and BC are taught within the single academic yr.)

 

FWIW, I think 9 yo is way to young to predict what a student will be doing in high school. I have had a 9 yr old completing 5th grade math and then taking alg by 10. He graduated from high school with 3 semesters of math beyond BC. Kids change a ton between 9 and their mid-teens. One that grabs the wheel might take off. Another who never slowed down with elementary math might struggle when they start hitting more abstract concepts.

 

The best gift any young student can receive is a rock solid foundation spread out over as long as it takes for them personally.

This.

 

In our public middle school, math is the only subject that has classes depending on abilities. The standard track is similar to the above, but kids can jump ahead (or fall behind). I have been told that kids brains do not develop evenly across all subjects, so it is critical to meet students where they are.

 

Agreeing also with comments about rock solid foundation being important.

 

ETA

 

Our schools base algebra placement on a combination of grades and an algebra readiness test that measures abstract thinking.

Edited April 2, 2016 by Alessandra

[lamolina]

I love the idea of just trying this year with Beast Academy. We may actually start over the summer and see how that goes. We did some Beast back when it first came out so he will remember that and he did like it.

 

Thanks for talking me through this! So hard for me to remember I don't have to to have every single step decided right now!