W&R Chreia and Proverb

[beka87]

Hi, everyone!  I am working on planning for next year (third grade) and was wondering if any W&R users could give me some feed back on the Chreia level. 

 

At first, I thought I was going to use W&R two weeks on, one week off, using Cottage Press materials on our off weeks.  That would have us completing about two CAP books a year.  Which is what the program is scheduled at, approximately.  So my daughter (almost 8 now) would be learning to write 6 paragraph essays in Chreia at age 9, in fourth grade.  That seems way too soon...and the progym exercise of expanding on a maxim, i.e., the Cheia/Proverb stage, seems in my mind like a great exercise for, say, a 7th grader.  I actually emailed Christine Perrin about the pacing of this program last year, noticing that Selby's materials and Cottage Press both start the progym later and/or introduce certain exercises quite a bit later than CAP does.  She emailed me a good response, basically saying that the W&R books had been written for the ages they are meant for. 

 

But I just kind of wonder if, despite that fact, a nine-year old really SHOULD be in Chreia, even they CAN because CAP wrote the book that way.  Has anyone who has actually used the Chreia level felt that it was good/horrible fit for the age of the child being taught?  Or anyone who has used a progym based program of any kind could give their thoughts. Thanks!!

[thegeyser]

I have been using CAP W&R resources for two of my children. My oldest is at the end of Refutation & Confirmation right now (age 11). He finished up Chreia this year too. My 9 year old is working through Narrative 1 right now after completing 1/2 of WWE3 during the fall semester and Fable last spring.

I think that 6 "paragraphs" may be overstating the assignment. One or two of those paragraphs are nothing more than a restatement or a sentence or two. It is very formatted, and the program walks them through each step. That said, your child has plenty of time if he/she does not seem ready. I can't imagine my 4th grader using it right now. He is having a hard enough time with the creative elements in Narrative 1.

My oldest pretty much exclusively uses W&R now, but the first two books in the series weren't published until he was at the end of his 4th grade year (I think). Anyway, he was a WWE dropout. He could not handle the dictation exercises. We moved into Classical Writing Aesop for 3rd grade, and then started 4th grade with a semester of IEW SWI-A. I put him into the Narrative 1 book, because he had already been through a "fable" level of the progym. And then we did a lot of the Kilgallon Sentence Composing book orally over the summer before starting Narrative 2. 

From what I understand, W&R was developed by a teacher at a public classical school in an urban area of Indiana. They have seen its success with their students at that age group, but that doesn't mean that is when you HAVE to use it. Even SWB has it on a revised writing schedule on this site - used at much later grades than the publisher recommends. 

FWIW, it is my least favorite level so far, but I also see the power of this writing tool. I've since read well-written articles where the author refers to the character of a historical figure and uses the figure to illustrate his point, and it makes me think of the Chreia assignments in W&R! From my experience, it was very helpful to "Talk About It" and "Dig Deeper" a second time right before he started his actual writing assignments. In the series, the conversation takes the place of written brainstorming/mind mapping, etc. 

I would tell you to go with your gut! Curriculum is a tool! 

[Targhee]

Not exactly answering your question, but I just wanted to let you know that you don't have to start the series at 8.  My DS is in Narrative II now and he's 11 (he started last year in 4th grade).  He'll start Chreia in 6th grade.  I think it is a great place for him to be, considering his age and what is covered in the books, and his desire to write (or reluctance as the case has always been).  We front load with MCT grammar and use the Practice books throughout the year, and do W&R 3 days a week (co-op with lit class is one day, and 5th day is logic/reasoning work).  Next year we aren't co-oping so we will move to 4 days a week of W&R, and I'm sure finish Confirmation/Refutation.

 

As far as W&R being a good fit for us, yes I believe it is.  Some reasons? The literary selections, the Talk About It" and "Dig Deeper" sections, it has variety (not the same old copywork/dictation/narration every day!), it does not patronize the student, and even the layout/design of the books is appealing. I know that may seem secondary to some, but aesthetic is important for me to engage well with a text.  If things are spaced poorly, have a font which is hard on the eye, or stark white pages with high contrast black ink I just want to put the book down after a while.  Most importantly, my son will do it! I think a LOT of homeschool materials appeal to girls (because they are written by homeschooling mothers?), but W&R appeals to him more than others we have tried and I think that is in part due to the classical stories of wars, armies, gods and goddesses loosing their tempers, and it lacks any of the touchy-feely kind of questions and activities of many modern writing programs.

[lanabug]

Even SWB has it on a revised writing schedule on this site - used at much later grades than the publisher recommends. 

 

 

Can you link to SWB's schedule? I've seen her recommended sequence for WWE, but I didn't realize she had updated it to include W&R.

 

Lana

[zarabellesmom]

It's here:

 

http://downloads.peacehillpress.com/samples/pdf/WWEandWWSexplanation.pdf?utm_source=Catalog&utm_medium=Print&utm_content=Page%2B9&utm_campaign=2014%2BCatalog&page=10

 

 

[RootAnn]

We dropped into the series just for Narrative 2 with dd#3 (ages 9-10 when doing the book). We've spread it out over an entire year because we only do it about twice per week. I needed something for writing that would help DD with her writing skills & buy her maturing time before starting WWS1. That's what we are using it for.

 

I don't plan on using Book 4 at this point, based on what I've read of the reviews & how DD has (not much) liked Book 3.