Should I switch to MUS from TT?

[estelleblue]

Aside from a few lingering concerns re: the thoroughness of Teaching Textbooks, my family has been happy using it for the past two years. Basically, I thought we had found our math curriculum and would use it until the end. However, my children are in a once-a-week tutorial. In 2017-2018, my ds will be in 7th grade. At that time, he will be able to take math at the tutorial, and they use Math-U-See. The classes are al a carte, so I could choose for him to not take math there, however, I think he could benefit from having a human math teacher. wink emoticon I would not be a good candidate for being his human math teacher. I am debating switching to MUS to prepare my son for taking MUS Pre-Algebra in his tutorial next year, but I am hesitant to fix something that isn't broken. Can anyone share their experiences with MUS, upper levels, especially, that might ease my mind? I guess my real question is, what would you do? Thanks!

p.s. Please don't tell me to use Lial's or AoPs, etc. I have to outsource upper level math. 

 

edited to specify my p.s. disclaimer

Edited March 27, 2016 by estelleblue

[EKS]

I absolutely would not use MUS for anything higher than Zeta.

[sweetpea3829]

I concur with EKS.  I have questions as it is with the quality/thoroughness of MUS at the lower levels...but I hear many many comments here about MUS at the upper level.  

 

[estelleblue]

I absolutely would not use MUS for anything higher than Zeta.

Would you consider TT a lesser of two evils? I cannot teach him upper level math, so we have to outsource it in some way. 

[EKS]

Would you consider TT a lesser of two evils? I cannot teach him upper level math, so we have to outsource it in some way. 

 

Yes, absolutely.

[EKS]

But if possible I'd try something like Derek Owens.  He does the teaching and the grading and his courses are better than MUS or TT.

Edited March 27, 2016 by EKS

[estelleblue]

But if possible I'd try something like Derek Owens.  He does the teaching and the grading and his courses are better than MUS or TT.

Thank you for that suggestion. Can you tell me if you think TT can prepare him until he is ready for Derek Owens? 

[estelleblue]

This is a non-mathy kid. He cries regularly just because he hates the idea of having to multiply something. He is able to complete TT 6 work (in 5th grade) with few errors, even though he gets frustrated easily. He plans to pursue an artistic career (I know this could change), so I wonder how rigorous his math really needs to be, if that makes sense. I don't want to sell him short either though. 

Edited March 27, 2016 by estelleblue

[OneStepAtATime]

If he struggles with math, he may not have a solid enough foundation.  Personally?  I would consider hiring a tutor or at least giving a placement test from another program to see where there may be gaps.  You might look at the CLE placement test. It is free.  Just download it to your computer and print it out.  It is long.  Give it in small pieces or he may get unduly stressed out.  I'm not saying switch from TT but you may need to use something on the side to scaffold him and fill in the gaps.  He may even need to step back a bit and solidify basics.  How are his subitization skills?

[Janeway]

What about Aleks? I have heard good about that. I have a low opinion of TT. I would rather do MUS than TT. Look at Aleks.

[sweetpea3829]

Prodigy Math (referral link in my siggie) would go a long way in helping him to enjoy math a bit more.  You can use it as a motivator.  Have him complete xyz pages in whatever you're using...and he can play a half hour on Prodigy.  Or whatever you choose to do.  

 

My kids REALLY enjoy playing Prodigy and I'm hearing from most people that their kids feel the same.  They like it more than Minecraft right now.  And I can use it to target their specific week points.  Or I can use it to expand on something they're doing well.  Mostly, I use it for spiral review to help keep their recently acquired math concepts fresh.  

 

It's free, although there is a paid option...but the paid version does not impact the educational aspect of the game...just the gaming aspect.  

 

If you decide to use it and have any questions, please feel free to ask!  I can't say enough good about it...it's very well done.  

[estelleblue]

How are his subitization skills?

I'm sorry, I don't know what that is. Could you please elaborate? 

[estelleblue]

 You might look at the CLE placement test. 

:iagree: I did this last year, at the end of 4th grade (he had completed TT5 at that time), and he easily placed into their 5th grade program. It was definitely my plan to do that again this year. Like I said, after all the negative reviews on here about TT, I have some concerns, and want to keep on top of that for sure. 

Edited March 27, 2016 by estelleblue

[OneStepAtATime]

I'm sorry, I don't know what that is. Could you please elaborate? 

The below will probably explain it better than I could but basically the ability to subitize is how we really develop a basic number sense.  It starts in infancy.  Even an infant can sense "more" or "less" at a basic level (at least normally).  As we get older, and our brain develops, our sense of "more" or "less" becomes more refined.  Our ability to subitize improves.  

 

If a young child is learning to count to 5 and is given a piece of paper with 5 dots on it, in the beginning they will probably still have to count each dot to confirm there are 5 dots on the page.  Eventually, that child will not have to count each dot anymore.  They will look at the dots on the page and just KNOW it is 5.  They learn to recognize the pattern of 5 and they learn to break down that pattern into smaller patterns (2 dots plus 3 dots or 1 dot and 4 dots means 5 dots).  They will then be able to eventually see a pattern of 5 dots next to a patter of 5 dots and automatically know that means there are 10 dots.  Later on that child will be adding a number, like maybe 5 and 7.  If they have been working with numbers for a bit they won't even have to think about 5 plus 7.  They will subconsciously subitize and add in subgroups without even realizing it.  Maybe they will add 5+5+2 and get 12.   Again, they may not be aware they are even doing it.  Their subitization sense is strong enough that it happens at a subconscious level.  This dot pattern recognition gets applied to everything, oranges, t-shirts, whatever.  They are subitizing.

 

When you look at a pair of die and see 2 dots on one die and 3 dots on another die, as an adult you probably just KNOW that means there are 5 dots.  Your brain is subitizing.  For some children, even older kids, they may look at those dice and have to count every single dot to find out how many there are.  Their subitization skills are too weak to recognize the pattern.  This will affect every aspect of math.  

 

For some kids that subitization process either wasn't strong to begin with or never actually develops or is developing at a much slower speed than same age peers.  The problem with learning math is this assumption that those basic processes are in place.  The leap from working with manipulatives and real world objects to just working with abstract numbers on a page happens too early for a child with weak subitization skills.  They never get the explicit, broken down, systematic instruction they need to improve the weak subitization skills.  That means that the child is basically trying to do math while missing an extremely critical component (trying to put together a puzzle while missing all the edge pieces and no picture as a guide).  Even adding 5+7 means they have to stop and count, either on fingers or in their head, and because this such a basic component they may not even be aware that it is missing or that they are having to count each "dot" in their head.  Math is this slow, laborious process because the very basic building block of math is poorly developed.  This in turn means that math can be a struggle, sometimes a HUGE struggle, but the underlying issue is frequently never realized.   They are just labeled as "slow" at and "resistant" to math.

 

 

http://teachmath.openschoolnetwork.ca/grade-1/number-sense/subitizing/

Edited March 27, 2016 by OneStepAtATime

[estelleblue]

The below will probably explain it better than I could but basically the ability to subitize is how we really develop a basic number sense.  It starts in infancy.  Even an infant can sense "more" or "less" at a basic level (at least normally).  As we get older, and our brain develops, our sense of "more" or "less" becomes more refined.  Our ability to subitize improves.  

 

If a young child is learning to count to 5 and is given a piece of paper with 5 dots on it, in the beginning they will probably still have to count each dot to confirm there are 5 dots on the page.  Eventually, that child will not have to count each dot anymore.  They will look at the dots on the page and just KNOW it is 5.  They learn to recognize the pattern of 5 and they learn to break down that pattern into smaller patterns (2 dots plus 3 dots or 1 dot and 4 dots means 5 dots).  They will then be able to eventually see a pattern of 5 dots next to a patter of 5 dots and automatically know that means there are 10 dots.  Later on that child will be adding a number, like maybe 5 and 7.  If they have been working with numbers for a bit they won't even have to think about 5 plus 7.  They will subconsciously subitize and add in subgroups without even realizing it.  Maybe they will add 5+5+2 and get 12.   Again, they may not be aware they are even doing it.  Their subitization sense is strong enough that it happens at a subconscious level.  This dot pattern recognition gets applied to everything, oranges, t-shirts, whatever.  They are subitizing.

 

When you look at a pair of die and see 2 dots on one die and 3 dots on another die, as an adult you probably just KNOW that means there are 5 dots.  Your brain is subitizing.  For some children, even older kids, they may look at those dice and have to count every single dot to find out how many there are.  Their subitization skills are too weak to recognize the pattern.  This will affect every aspect of math.  

 

For some kids that subitization process either wasn't strong to begin with or never actually develops or is developing at a much slower speed than same age peers.  The problem with learning math is this assumption that those basic processes are in place.  The leap from working with manipulatives and real world objects to just working with abstract numbers on a page happens too early for a child with weak subitization skills.  They never get the explicit, broken down, systematic instruction they need to improve the weak subitization skills.  That means that the child is basically trying to do math while missing an extremely critical component (trying to put together a puzzle while missing all the edge pieces and no picture as a guide).  Even adding 5+7 means they have to stop and count, either on fingers or in their head, and because this such a basic component they may not even be aware that it is missing or that they are having to count each "dot" in their head.  Math is this slow, laborious process because the very basic building block of math is poorly developed.  This in turn means that math can be a struggle, sometimes a HUGE struggle, but the underlying issue is frequently never realized.   They are just labeled as "slow" at and "resistant" to math.

 

 

http://teachmath.openschoolnetwork.ca/grade-1/number-sense/subitizing/

THANK YOU! I think he does pretty well with this. Me on the other hand...