IEP looks like same bleep, different day

[Ravin]

So, we had an IEP meeting for my DD yesterday with her online charter school. This is her first IEP.

 

They are listing "other Health issue" as primary reason for the IEP, Specific Learning Disability in math as the second. The psychoeducational evaluation was somewhat limited and neither the testing done nor the modifications and accommodations proposed address the global issues we identified need dealing with, which include difficulties with executive function and processing information--we see it in her across the board difficulties with organization, handling ANY kind of multi-step problem or instructions (not just math, though that is an area where it is glaring), and in her inability to put her output in a meaningful form for school expectations a lot of the time (such as on quizzes and tests).

 

The special ed teacher outright said she thinks the learning disability arose because of DD's other issues, which include mood disorder (NOS), anxiety, and oppositional behavior, and fibromyalgia. This is along the same lines as what the math teacher from the school we pulled her from at the beginning of the year--her behavior/mood issues being the cause of her math learning issues.

 

The thing is, DH and I both feel that it's a chicken-egg issue, because the anxiety and learning difficulties feed in to each other, and frankly math is the worst trigger for DD's anxiety, and looking back they have grown together.

 

So, they want to cut electives (including art which was the only thing she even slightly likes about school), give her limited pull-out for extra instruction in math (which she is three grade levels behind in), and writing, while continuing her in her current grade level in all classes (including math--how the heck is she going to ever catch up like that?) with 20% of assignments cut as 'nonessential' and modifications in how she is to be tested, plus some added learning tools (open note tests, etc.)

 

They will give her some extra help with organizing her schedule and assignments, but we as her "learning coaches" are expected to spend 80-90% of her instruction time with her. They expect her to work beyond the mandatory 35 hours a week if necessary to catch up, and she will not be offered summer school.

 

She will not be offered alternative curriculum or any kind of real self-pacing because she tested as having an average IQ.

 

If we have to sit next to her and coach her along through every. single. assignment., we're not sure what the online school is doing for us.

 

DD has actually done WORSE on mid-year evaluations than the ones done at the beginning of the school year. An assignment that is expected to take an hour often takes her 3 or 4 to complete, and that's when she's actually putting forth effort and focusing.

 

I'm ready to mail the school's computer back to them with a thanks-but-no-thanks-you-people-suck letter.

 

DH is still on the fence, because he's concerned that if DD wants to go back to public school in a couple of years, we'll be back at square one again with a school taking 6 months to complete testing and whatnot.

 

I just want to stop torturing my child with an education that seems to make her absolutely hate learning. It's completely counter-productive. She'll learn more watching YouTube videos about styling hair and art projects than she's learning from her formal education at this point.

 

DH is the one home during the week--he's a grad student, I work OOH and am only home on the weekends.

 

I'm working on convincing him to pull her and need solid arguments. We would probably go to a primarily child-directed type of homeschooling (at least for a while), with the exception of math which we would remediate, and some focus on practical life skills. By homeschooling, we would be able to control what grade she is placed back into school in (one issue we had is that we tried to tell this online school that she needed to repeat 6th grade, but because the B&M school the year before passed her on, they weren't allowed to).

 

[PeterPan]

If the math interventions they offer aren't going to improve her, then I don't see how it matters.  I'm not terribly in favor of unschooling, because I think good unschooling requires a parent able to provide resources and an enriched environment.  I'm assuming part of the reason for the charter was for the structure so that dh could implement it.  So unschooling loses that and gives him no way to help while leaving him still pulled by his own responsibilities (grad school).  So I would hire a tutor and make a structured plan for the rest.  Structure can be a checklist with categories or something much more specific.  It can be highly detailed or encouraging choice.  She can make the list or you can.  I'm just saying with the level of EF issues you're describing, it doesn't make sense to lose structure.

 

I think as long as you have structure and get a math tutor, things will pan out in the wash.  In reality, there's a pretty broad range of what kids can do and acquire skills.  I would lean toward what is HEALTHY for her, what is HEALING.  

[Pen]

Did you look legally at what you may be able to ask for, perhaps different than what they offer?  I think an IEP is supposed to be an agreement between you and them (the whole IEP team which includes the parents), not just their decision.

 

If nothing else it seems like the pull out from art rather than from a math class that is too hard anyway makes no sense.

 

I don't know what is typical, but a friend of my son's who was doing an online charter around age 12 needed a parent in attendance pretty much the whole time, and she was a super bright child with no LDs or emotional issues.  When that would not work anymore with their work, they changed her to a charter school where she goes in person.

[Pen]

Just to add, though, in my son's friend's case, the help would have fit okay with a parent working on his own studying since it sort of required them both occupying computers next to each other and the parent being ready to answer questions every 10 minutes or so. 

[OneStepAtATime]

So what you really seem to be needing is some solid, logical arguments you can present to your DH to convince him to pull DD from the on-line school.

 

His main concern is that she would have to start over in getting an IEP if she was pulled out now but went back to school in the future?  Are there any other concerns he is really stalling on?

[Storygirl]

I don't know how the IEP process works through one of the online public schools, but I think before saying you won't accept the IEP, you should be sure to understand how that might affect her if she does enroll in another school later on. If you reject an IEP, what will happen if you enroll in a different school next year? Would you be allowed by law to request evaluations again? Would you want her to start another school without the protections of an IEP in place (even if it is not ideal)?

 

I think that even if the IEP is not exactly what you hoped for, it could be a good start. IEP goals are updated annually, so the IEP is a kind of static document that can and will be revised as time goes on.

 

DS11 just had his IEP completed last week. He has multiple issues, including a math disability. He has holes in his foundational math understanding (because he forgets things if he does not practice them continuously), so he had some trouble with some second grade math skills when his teachers did some testing. He has trouble with multi-step problems and conceptual understanding. He is in fifth grade this year. He really bottomed out on the math portion of the evaluation process.

 

Yet he is still going to be in the sixth grade classroom next year. We talked a lot about this at his IEP meeting, because we questioned whether he needed a different math class. He is going to get an additional 20 minutes daily of individualized math instruction with the intervention specialist at his school. So basically, they are keeping him at grade level but having him do math for one and a half periods per day instead of just one.

 

It seems to me that the problem might not be with the IEP but with the obligations to do all that the charter school requires (35 hours per week, etc.).

 

Can you accept the IEP but then pull out of the charter anyway? You would have to come up with an alternate educational plan, but you would be released from the charter's requirements. I think it might be good to have the IEP, though, anyway.

 

We found that even though parents are part of the IEP team, we could not get everything we wanted or thought was ideal. But we are still glad to have an IEP in place.

 

[Storygirl]

Also, :grouphug:

 

I know how frustrating it can be to have a disconnect between what the school offers and what the child needs. And the whole IEP process is stressful. I hope you can figure out a way to make things work better for your daughter.

[City Mouse]

I can understand your frustration, but The services sound pretty typical for public school. Schools are required to teach the studen grade level curriculum with supports unless the student has an intellectual disability (IQ below 69). In a brick and mortar public school, a child with an LD might have a daily "resource" class pull out for math, but is still supposed to be working on the grade level curriculum. In many middle schools this would mean an extra math class each day, so the student would lose an elective as a result just as your online school is doing. The school can't give her an alternative curriculum. Summer school programs for special education (called Extended School Year services) is only for students who demonstrate regression is skills previously mastered after a long break. It is not provided for a student to "catch up" to grade level skills.

 

Unfortunately, that is just the way public school is.

 

The only difference I can see with the online school, is that the parents are having to provide the daily supervision that the teacher in a regular classroom would provided. The trade off is that she will get more one-on-one support at home. She would be one of many students with special needs in a traditional public school classroom.

[Ravin]

DH is concerned that we would lose the helps the school can give us--but they're not giving us those helps, so what's the point? 

 

I guess I need to research our options if we reject the IEP--I know there's supposed to be a way to ask for a second opinion? We will wait for the IEP to be formalized, and then we'll have the documentation going forward.

 

We can't afford to hire a tutor. The situation that I think would be ideal for DD--one of the private LD schools in the area--is also beyond our financial reach.

 

We would not dump structure, but would change the focus of the structure--to helping DD develop routines for basic things like personal hygiene (spotty now) and regulating her day (up and dressed and ready to do things consistently, keeping up with cleaning up after herself consistently, etc.) We would approach her education as a collaborative process with DD more able to control what she learns, while DH and I focus on ensuring she progresses in necessary skills--for example, we want to improve her writing, but there's no reason that can't be done in the context of researching and doing a presentation on, say, the history of fashion in Japan. DD would be the idea generator, and we would help her scaffold structure to bring those ideas to fruition.

 

At the rate she's going, I worry about the possibilities of her just imploding in her teens--and/or being continually passed through and graduating without basic research and writing skills, etc. 

[Arcadia]

I don't know if your online charter is K12 or Pearson or something else but I would pull. Here parents can request repeating a grade level and the school can't override. The parent can override the school's request for repeating a grade.

 

Is there a charter that has stipend that you can register your daughter for? She will still need an IEP but you can use the stipend allocated for tutors. My friend who's child needs a reading tutor gets that free under the IEP so she doesn't need to use charter funds for reading.

[Ravin]

I don't know if your online charter is K12 or Pearson or something else but I would pull. Here parents can request repeating a grade level and the school can't override. The parent can override the school's request for repeating a grade.

 

Is there a charter that has stipend that you can register your daughter for? She will still need an IEP but you can use the stipend allocated for tutors. My friend who's child needs a reading tutor gets that free under the IEP so she doesn't need to use charter funds for reading.

 

Unfortunately, there are no looser charter schools in Arizona. We will take the IEP with us if we re-enroll her in the enrichment program she was in K-5; it runs through 8th grade and if we pull her before the end of the school year I doubt we'll be questioned on enrolling her for 7th again there.

 

Once she has had some time to decompress, we might look at private online options that allow self-pacing.

[prairiewindmomma]

Wrightslaw from Emotions to Advocacy is a good primer on IEPs and 504s including how to handle IEP negotiation and refusals.  The Wrightslaw website has much of the same information for free, and as a fellow attorney I'm guessing you can skim through the relevant parts fairly easily. 

Discussion of outside party evaluations and such can be part of the IEP process.

 

[justasque]

My observation/experience is that pull-out math help plus a grade-level class is going to be a lot of frustration and wasted time.  The gold standard for math remediation is to assess what the student knows and what they don't, then go back as far as you need to, starting with review of the stuff they sort-of-know, and build from there, at the student's own pace.  In other words, a class completely customized to the child's needs.  The curriculum needs to be custom-made for the student, on an ongoing basis, likely pulled from a variety of texts and other resources, to match the student's needs.  That's the gold standard, but the school is not offering that.  You could try to advocate for it, but chances are good they don't even have someone on staff who has done this before, because it's simply not how public schools operate.  

That said, your dh is stuck between trying to do grad school, while actively sitting with your dd as she does cyber-schoolwork for 35 hours a week, vs. trying to do grad school while homeschooling.  There are no easy answers here.  But I would vote for homeschooling/unschooling, because I see no reason to put a child in a classroom situation - at home or at school - for which she is simply not prepared nor capable of performing at the expected level.  It does not accomplish the learning objectives, and creates a seriously negative daily environment for the student, which can cause long-term harm.

[OneStepAtATime]

My observation/experience is that pull-out math help plus a grade-level class is going to be a lot of frustration and wasted time.  The gold standard for math remediation is to assess what the student knows and what they don't, then go back as far as you need to, starting with review of the stuff they sort-of-know, and build from there, at the student's own pace.  In other words, a class completely customized to the child's needs.  The curriculum needs to be custom-made for the student, on an ongoing basis, likely pulled from a variety of texts and other resources, to match the student's needs.  That's the gold standard, but the school is not offering that.  You could try to advocate for it, but chances are good they don't even have someone on staff who has done this before, because it's simply not how public schools operate.  

 

That said, your dh is stuck between trying to do grad school, while actively sitting with your dd as she does cyber-schoolwork for 35 hours a week, vs. trying to do grad school while homeschooling.  There are no easy answers here.  But I would vote for homeschooling/unschooling, because I see no reason to put a child in a classroom situation - at home or at school - for which she is simply not prepared nor capable of performing at the expected level.  It does not accomplish the learning objectives, and creates a seriously negative daily environment for the student, which can cause long-term harm.

Yes.

 

Agree with all of this and I think Ravin does, too, but the DH needs to be convinced to cut the umbilical cord to the on-line school.  

 

I am trying to find articles or something else more concrete that he might be willing to read and ponder over.  Maybe others have some sort of concrete options/views/researched based knowledge to help the DH see that this is almost certainly better than continuing to force her to try and function at grade level when she absolutely cannot?

[shinyhappypeople]

 

I just want to stop torturing my child with an education that seems to make her absolutely hate learning. It's completely counter-productive. She'll learn more watching YouTube videos about styling hair and art projects than she's learning from her formal education at this point.

 

 

I could have written the above statement a few years ago when we were still with a homeschool-charter.  I pulled 12 yo DD out precisely because I felt like I was being asked to mentally abuse my kid in order to meet the completely unrealistic expectations of the charter.

 

I don't know anything about IEPs and whether you should accept it and then pull her or just pull her now, but either way I'd get her away from the charter as soon as possible.

 

She needs time to deschool and heal from this experience.   :grouphug:

[Kanin]

Homeschooling can be as structured or un-structured as you want to make it.... theoretically. 35 hours a week of school sounds pretty crazy for a kid with school-induced anxiety!

 

I used to be a tutor for a 12-13 y/o girl who was homeschooling. We would meet for 2 hours a day, 4 days a week and do school together. One day a week she spent the whole day working/volunteering at a horse farm - her love. On the days we met, we would learn new things together for the two hours, and then I would give her instructions/materials/etc for an additional 2 hours of work on her own. So most days she did 4 hours of work and then she was done. She then contributed to the household, took care of her animals, the garden, etc.  Her parents were not super involved with actual schoolwork, but sometimes they did help her.

 

A typical "do this yourself" homeschooling assignment for her would usually be something like:  1) read the next chapter of a book and write a 3 sentence summary; 2) do a math worksheet (that I KNEW she could do on her own); 3) define a few vocabulary words and use them in sentences or a paragraph or a "silly paragraph" 4) If we were doing geography, maybe research a country, fill in a map, etc; 5) if we were doing science, then perhaps watch a Bill Nye the Science Guy, Nova, etc....

 

There is so much you can learn in a non-traditional way, and it can be so fun. And empowering for the child! She probably feels out of control with school, because she is struggling. She needs to feel competent and intelligent. The girl I taught was behind grade level in math and reading, but she felt SMART. She was amazing! She knew she could handle life. She knew she excelled at many things (animals, gardening, cooking....).

 

And seriously - it seems to me that you and your husband being "instructional coaches" for nearly all of her instruction per day is WAY more work than straight-up homeschooling!  They really want you to sit and teach her for 6 hours a day?  

 

Perhaps you could do bare-bones school for the rest of the year - it's only two months at this point - and then use the summer to make a more solid plan.  She could work with your husband for 2 hours (like - he's sitting there doing his work, and every half an hour, he teaches her something new for 10-15 minutes and then she practices/reads/writes/etc). After the 2 hours, she could do her "independent work."

 

Your daughter is already anxious, and the charter's plan seems like it would do nothing to help with that.  If she would be happier away from the charter, even if school would be "less work" - that seems better to me, especially since the IEP they gave you basically turns you and your husband into full-time teachers anyway.

Phew!  I guess I have some opinions!  Sorry for the rant. I really think you can do better than the charter!   :hurray:

[Ravin]

Well, yesterday morning DD, DH and I sat down and had a family meeting. DH wanted DD to lay out what SHE wanted, and we worked from there, communicating what OUR expectations would be, and we worked out how to work towards both of those together. This morning we are withdrawing her from the online school and filing a new homeschooling affidavit. We'll keep the results of the IEP meeting in our records.

[OneStepAtATime]

Well, yesterday morning DD, DH and I sat down and had a family meeting. DH wanted DD to lay out what SHE wanted, and we worked from there, communicating what OUR expectations would be, and we worked out how to work towards both of those together. This morning we are withdrawing her from the online school and filing a new homeschooling affidavit. We'll keep the results of the IEP meeting in our records.

:hurray:  :hurray:  :hurray:  :hurray:  :hurray:  :thumbup:  :thumbup:  :thumbup:  :thumbup:  :thumbup: