How blunt is too blunt...

[gamommy]

in extended family situations. Honestly my in-laws have been driving dh and I crazy for years. We now live a bit over 1,000 miles away from them and in a way it's worse! We used to make twice yearly trips, but after the last few disasters we've decided not to visit for a while.

 

MIL is of course particularly upset by my dh's announcement that we won't be coming up this Christmas. Even when we lived close by she always insisted that all of her children and their families spend every holiday with her and pitched a royal fit if they dared to attempt to divide time more equally. She's just in general a rather controlling personality and truly believes that her needs are more important than anyone else's. Maybe it's because of her entitlement attitude that she also feels free to speak whatever's on her mind to all of us whenever the mood strikes her.

 

For example tonight I had to endure another rehash of our not coming for Christmas and how disappointed she was, another tirade about how all southerners have ridiculous beliefs (we now live in GA, they are in MA), and how she wishes we'd go on and upgrade our current house as it really doesn't have room to comfortably accomodate her when she visits.

 

My tactic for the last dozen years have been to politely listen to her and not say much. At nearly 40 we're frankly a bit tired of this (poor dh has had to deal with it since birth) and we're now thinking that the time may have come to up the ante. We are Christians and dh's family doesn't share our belief and that's part of the reason that I honestly think there's a disconnect sometimes. Some of our decisions just frankly baffle them, I've tried hard to be understanding but am growing weary. I'm wondering if it isn't time to stop 'sugar coating' things and just be a little more forthcoming.

 

If you've read this far, thank you. My topic really summarized my question... how blunt is too blunt? For instance when she complains about our home (adequate for our needs, BTW) would it be appropriate for me to say that I don't always find her home particularly comfortable either but have just been too polite to say so? Or that we're honestly looking forward to a Christmas done our way in our own home? Or that after all of our turmoil during our disasterous summer visit I'm honestly not looking forward to Thanksgiving? Or that she's honestly only coming for turkey day because she's mad at one of her other daughters for spending last year's holiday with the 'other' side of the family?

 

All of the aforementioned is absolutely true I'm just wondering whether it will finally help MIL see the light and whether or not speaking so frankly is truly unkind. Especially since I know how well her words can hurt.

 

Anyone with another tactic that might work here?

[Garga]

If I were you, I'd keep your comments centered on yourself. For example, if she says your house isn't big enough to accommodate her, just say, "This house is very lovely for us at this time." I would not point out that you didn't like her house. (My very sweet MIL doesn't understand how I can like my 1940's bungalow. She lives in a brand new home that I don't like. When she tells me, "Maybe one day you guys will be able to get a nice new home," I just say, "Oh, I love my little cottage!" I never say to her that I would hate to live in a new home and that I don't really like hers. I really do love older homes. However, my MIL is very sweet, so it's easy to tell her this.)

 

When she complains about Christmas I would only say, "This year it's better for us to have a quiet celebration at home."

 

I was a customer service rep at a health insurance company for a few years. There were many (many) times I had to be the bearer of bad news (no, your $1500 MRI is not covered.) It was horrible to have to give people bad news. They would sometimes get angry and try to badger me. However, I was just the lowly CSR. I had no authority to change the insurance policy. I wished I could because it was awful telling people things they didn't want to hear. However, I did learn how to very nicely just keep repeating, "I'm sorry to say that your MRI simply isn't a coverable expense in this particular policy." They would say something about how stupid that was. "Unfortunately, it simply is not a coverable expense." Insert another indignant comment from the (poor) customer. "This policy lists MRIs as an exclusion at this time."

 

Horrible to be a CSR having to say these things, but consider yourself a CSR with your in-laws. You still need their business, but you have to deliver the bad news. Stay calm and professional. Only state and restate the facts about yourself and don't go on the attack, even if it's a gentle attack.

 

Going on the attack just gives her more ammunition. And really, you want to be a good witness. God loves her very much. He did not put her in your life for you to yell at her or belittle her. Just state your needs and your decisions and don't comment on hers.

[myfunnybunch]

One of the things I try to remember, and have said over and over to my children regarding setting boundaries and being up front with others: Is it necessary? Is it kind? Is it true? And when I say kind, I don't mean "nice". I do believe it is possible and appropriate to set boundaries kindly and firmly.

 

For example, to say that you don't find her home comfortable is true, but not necessary or kind as a response to her complaints about your home. (Though it might be necessary and truthful to kindly set some boundaries when you are visiting her home.) Instead, what about "We love our home. We'd be happy to make reasonable accommodations when you visit. Do you have any suggestions?" Accommodate reasonable suggestions; set boundaries about unreasonable ones. "We love the home we're in because _____. Moving just isn't feasible for us, but perhaps we could offer extra blankets/a quiet space/to help pay for a hotel room when you visit next."

 

On the other hand, it is reasonable, not unkind, and very true to say with enthusiasm, "We're looking forward to having a stay-at-home Christmas. We're wondering what traditions we'll start as a family. What are some traditions that have been special to you when your children were young?"

 

In general if she's being unpleasant--change the subject, pass the bean dip, think of a pressing task that must be done right now. If she presses, kindly and firmly say something along the lines of "I've addressed your concerns. I'm not sure how else I can help, and this conversation is making me uncomfortable. I'd sure love to talk about something else....I've been dying to ask for your bean dip recipe/what colors I might paint the living room/about the book you told me about."

 

If she gets angry about necessary boundaries set kindly and truthfully....her problem. Not yours. If she chooses not to have Thanksgiving with you next year because she's angry...her problem. If she chooses not to stay with you...her problem.

 

:grouphug:

 

Cat

[Laura in VA]

Umm, that's a hard one. Pray for her and ask God to lead you in the best way to deal with this. I believe the words need to come from your dh and not you. No matter how lovingly or kind your words may be, I don't think they will be received well. I would say something like, "While we are going to really miss not seeing you for Christmas, we feel it is important for our family to begin some of it's own traditions." The thing you don't want to do is banter back and forth with her. I would definitely not say the things you really want to say to her. That would only make her defensive and mad. And, more importantly, you've got to remember that you represent Christianity to her and if you are terse or in any way disrespectful you may damage her opinion. I know it's hard. I really feel your husband needs to speak with her (respectfully and kindly) and tell her that he feels it is time for traditions to begin with your family. I'm sorry you're having to deal with this. :grouphug:

[tibbyl]

In a genuinely kind tone, offer to make hotel reservations for her since she is not comfortable in the home that meets your needs.

[TraceyS/FL]

I have wonderful conversations with my MIL..... in my head.

 

My DH doesn't share my issues with them, be thankful yours is on the same side as you. UGH.

 

:grouphug: I feel you pain, i've lived your pain, and 3000 miles is not far enough away from her.

 

I would do as was mentioned, make it good for you - jab at how happy you are about everything.

 

UGH.

 

I feel for you.

 

At least this year - mine won't ruin Thanksgiving like last year (shows up without tell me/us they were coming in time for it... and Christmas.... gee, that was a lovely 2 months in my driveway huh?).

 

More :grouphug:

[PeterPan]

Two observations. 1) You'd probably have inlaw troubles even if they were of the same faith as you, simply because people are quirky and cause problems for people. Lots of people get annoyed with their inlaws, even if the inlaws are the sweetest, most congenial people you'd think could NEVER be annoying to anyone! People just have ways of rubbing people. 2) If you attack your MIL (what you call being frank), you totally lose your chance to have any form of witness, win her to your viewpoint, be persuasive or helpful to her in a spiritual crisis, and owe her an apology. I'm not saying it wouldn't pragmatically help, but that spiritually it's not a good idea.

 

I know you're weary (and can hear the frustration!), but I think you have to back up, regroup, and regain your patience and composure. You handle her as you would handle anyone obnoxious but necessary, with extreme care and coming in fully ready to overlook an awful lot. And you add the extra respect and forebearance she is due as a MIL, whether she's nice or not. If you want to get further scared, here's something to ponder... I think men marry women like their mothers. Are you LIKE her, and that's why you rub on each other so much? My mother and I were not close growing up and still struggle at times (just life, keep trying), but my dh ADORES her. He says I'm just like her. :)

[Danestress]

I think I would just say something like, "It seems like you have a lot of complaints about us, our home, and where we spend the holidays. I'm so sorry you are disapointed in us. It makes me really sad that you seem so unhappy with us, because we really love you. But we are pretty sure we have made the decisions that works best for our family."

[NevadaRabbit]

All of the aforementioned is absolutely true I'm just wondering whether it will finally help MIL see the light and whether or not speaking so frankly is truly unkind. Especially since I know how well her words can hurt.

 

Anyone with another tactic that might work here?

 

I agree with the others - I can hear your frustration and Heaven knows we all have those people in our lives who push every.one.of.our.buttons and we'd LOVE to just give it to 'em straight.

 

Don't do it. As Christians you will do serious damage to your witness to these people if you are that blunt.

 

Love DustyLizard's suggestion - find several ways to re-state the same thing in a kind way - "it just isn't possible for us to travel this Christmas," "we plan on Christmas at home this year," "we simply cannot do it this year."

 

Don't apologize for your family's home or your family's decisions, just stand your ground with love and firmness.

 

I think the most important thing is to pray. Ask the Lord to fill you with His love, His patience, His peace. Ask Him for more love for your MIL. Purpose with your husband to pray for her daily. Ask God what He would have you learn through your relationship with her. You will be amazed at what the Holy Spirit will do in you. :001_smile:

[Harriet Vane]

in extended family situations. Honestly my in-laws have been driving dh and I crazy for years. We now live a bit over 1,000 miles away from them and in a way it's worse! We used to make twice yearly trips, but after the last few disasters we've decided not to visit for a while.

 

MIL is of course particularly upset by my dh's announcement that we won't be coming up this Christmas. Even when we lived close by she always insisted that all of her children and their families spend every holiday with her and pitched a royal fit if they dared to attempt to divide time more equally. She's just in general a rather controlling personality and truly believes that her needs are more important than anyone else's. Maybe it's because of her entitlement attitude that she also feels free to speak whatever's on her mind to all of us whenever the mood strikes her.

 

For example tonight I had to endure another rehash of our not coming for Christmas and how disappointed she was, another tirade about how all southerners have ridiculous beliefs (we now live in GA, they are in MA), and how she wishes we'd go on and upgrade our current house as it really doesn't have room to comfortably accomodate her when she visits.

 

My tactic for the last dozen years have been to politely listen to her and not say much. At nearly 40 we're frankly a bit tired of this (poor dh has had to deal with it since birth) and we're now thinking that the time may have come to up the ante. We are Christians and dh's family doesn't share our belief and that's part of the reason that I honestly think there's a disconnect sometimes. Some of our decisions just frankly baffle them, I've tried hard to be understanding but am growing weary. I'm wondering if it isn't time to stop 'sugar coating' things and just be a little more forthcoming.

 

If you've read this far, thank you. My topic really summarized my question... how blunt is too blunt? For instance when she complains about our home (adequate for our needs, BTW) would it be appropriate for me to say that I don't always find her home particularly comfortable either but have just been too polite to say so? Or that we're honestly looking forward to a Christmas done our way in our own home? Or that after all of our turmoil during our disasterous summer visit I'm honestly not looking forward to Thanksgiving? Or that she's honestly only coming for turkey day because she's mad at one of her other daughters for spending last year's holiday with the 'other' side of the family?

 

All of the aforementioned is absolutely true I'm just wondering whether it will finally help MIL see the light and whether or not speaking so frankly is truly unkind. Especially since I know how well her words can hurt.

 

Anyone with another tactic that might work here?

 

YMMV, of course, but what I have found with my boundary-challenged relatives is that the more I explain, the more they take that as an invitation to argue endlessly in circles.

 

I think your tactic of politely listening is a good one.

 

I also find that, for certain situations, I have to pick one short statement and repeat, repeat, repeat.

 

For example:

 

"The kids are doing great with their schoolwork and have a ton of friends."

 

"We'll be spending Christmas with dh's family this year."

 

For those that wish to criticize endlessly, with no desire for a real dialog, patient repetition shuts them down. I only discuss things with those who indicate a real desire for a discussion wherein both parties give input, and the ideas presented are honestly considered.

 

If your mil does not indicate a willingness to understand your position, then being more blunt with her is likely to escalate her rhetoric. You will end up hurt, and you will not have shut down her behavior or changed her mind.

 

The exception to this, of course, is if your dh chooses to be more blunt with his mother. He has relationship privileges that you do not. :glare:

[Heather in the Kootenays]

I tried blunt with MIL and believe me I can be deadly if I'm motivated. It didn't work.

 

Now I practise nodding politely, changing the subject, and when she phones, I say Hi, you must be calling for your son and pass the phone on over immediately.

 

I also like one line answers like "I'm sorry you feel that way" or " really, we like our house"

[cathmom]

There's no way to change someone like that - I would merely continue on as you have been.

[3lilreds in NC]

I have a difficult MIL, and when I get tired of listening to the same complaints, I tell her, "This is no longer open for discussion." It's the only thing I've found that will stop her. She continues to complain to everyone else, I'm sure, but she doesn't do it to me anymore.

 

Your dh should be the one communicating with her, and he should be the one to tell her to stop it. But, if he can't for some reason, you can just tell her that you're not going to talk about it anymore.

 

Maybe not the gentlest approach, I'm sure, but when someone just will. not. listen. because they're not getting the answer they want, the only recourse is to stop talking about it with them. And, since all they want to do is talk about it to you until you change your mind, sometimes you have to be a bit blunt if you want it to stop.

 

I wouldn't say anything about not liking her house, etc; I don't think that will get you anywhere. But you can tell her you're not going to talk about it anymore, and if she won't drop it or brings it up again, get off the phone.

[Kris]

I agree that while unloading on her like that might make you feel better -- temporarily -- it won't solve your problem and would only give her more ammo. And on top of all of that, she probably won't have any idea what you're talking about.

[Mrs Mungo]

I don't see anything wrong with being blunt and honest. However, there is a fine line between being blunt and honest and being unnecessarily unkind.

 

I'm a blunt, honest person.

 

However, in the situation you describe:

For example tonight I had to endure another rehash of our not coming for Christmas and how disappointed she was, another tirade about how all southerners have ridiculous beliefs (we now live in GA, they are in MA), and how she wishes we'd go on and upgrade our current house as it really doesn't have room to comfortably accomodate her when she visits.

 

Blunt and honest (and firm) is saying "We are doing the holidays in our own home this year. If you'd like to join us, you are welcome. If you don't find my home accomodating, I would be happy to find you a hotel so that you can still see the kids." Saying "well your home isn't all that hot either" is not honest, it's lashing back at her.

[OnTheBrink]

 

 

Blunt and honest (and firm) is saying "We are doing the holidays in our own home this year. If you'd like to join us, you are welcome. If you don't find my home accomodating, I would be happy to find you a hotel so that you can still see the kids." Saying "well your home isn't all that hot either" is not honest, it's lashing back at her.

 

I agree. You don't need to explain anything, you don't need to defend your decisions, and I think the way Mrs.Mungo has put it is great.

[Remudamom]

It is so good for me to read these responses because I would never come up with them. My response would probably be more along the lines of "You're not coming for Christmas? Well, halleluia and pass the turkey!"

 

Y'all are a good influence on me.

[Kris]

No, I wouldn't be snarky about it but have you considered not answering your phone as often? Give yourself a limit. You will only talk with her once a month or once every 2 months, whatever. Practice setting polite verbal boundaries "mil, that decision is not up for debate and I will no longer discus it with you. If you continue to talk about X I will hang up". When she continues you hang up.

 

I had to do this with my Dad. The first thing he always brought up when he called was a particularly sore subject that he *knew* was a particularly sore subject, and it is to this day. After telling him Every.Single.Time that I did *not* want to discuss it, I finally said, "Look, Dad -- if that's what you want to talk about, we have nothing to talk about. If you continue to bring it up, I'll just hang up on you."

 

It still comes up once a year or so -- but I can handle that. ;)

[3lilreds in NC]

No, I wouldn't be snarky about it but have you considered not answering your phone as often? Give yourself a limit. You will only talk with her once a month or once every 2 months, whatever. Practice setting polite verbal boundaries "mil, that decision is not up for debate and I will no longer discus it with you. If you continue to talk about X I will hang up". When she continues you hang up.

 

Really - Quit picking up when she calls. Caller id is worth something very precious in these sorts of situations.

 

Yep - this is great advice too. I *heart* my caller ID!

[kalanamak]

 

All of the aforementioned is absolutely true I'm just wondering whether it will finally help MIL see the light and whether or not speaking so frankly is truly unkind. Especially since I know how well her words can hurt.

 

Anyone with another tactic that might work here?

 

I'd work on making so that her words don't hurt. View her an a sick person whose words reflect her inner misery and don't sting you. I'd also be willing to do diversions, say "oh NO the pasta is boiling over" and drop the phone when something gets repetitive. Another idea is changing the subject to something she is pleasant about (some people don't have another subject).

 

I have been blunt in the past, but rehearsed. Personally, I'd pick a favourite of hers that isn't personal. The "southerns" bit. This is pure bigotry. She may really NOT like your house, but to generalize about millions of people, that is plain old sloppy thinking. You could try floating a single, honest comment like "People in the south come in all different stripes and ilks, just like people in the north. I like living here and hearing you run people down is depressing. I wonder why you do it?"

 

There are toxic family members that no one has had the guts or whatever to *ever* tell them they are a huge pain. I think everyone except the dangerous deserves at least a shot across the bow about why people run the other way.

 

My sympathies, BTW. One of the advantages of being old enough to marry an old man is that my MIL is long gone. I knew one woman who was so sick of her family she said she wanted to marry an orphaned only child and she DID.

Edited September 30, 2008 by kalanamak
durned homonyms

[Parrothead]

When she says something about your house tell her, "Well, I'm very happy with the house my husband has provided for me and his children."

 

Finding some way to point out that you'll be helping pick out her nursing home might help too.

[Guest kacifl]

I love my children dearly, but sometimes I have to set boundaries. Sometimes I say 'no' for their own good, and sometimes it is for me. I agree that your husband needs to talk to your MIL.

 

You must also consider how it affects your whole family. For instance, my adult daughter is dealing with this exact issue with her step-mother. Her father is ok with what ever choices she makes. But her step-mother wants her with them every single holiday and every moment of it. It trickles down into our family where we have to adjust our schedules to see her at holidays. My dd has finally decided to deal with it, as it is now affecting her and her soon to be husband and the time they want to spend with his family.

 

If your husband has trouble talking to his mother, have him write a loving letter expressing how much he'll miss the holiday with them. But how relieve you all will be to not travel, what strains it puts on the kids, not to mention the pocket-book. He can reflect on special moments shared at holiday times, and that you will be together in spirit. That's it. And as with children, don't listen to their negative responses. In time, it will stop.

 

 

I love the idea of starting your own family tradition. We are doing the same at our home. My inlaws *outlaws*:glare: don't get a long with each other. I have conducted each family get-together for the last 18 years. No one in the family would do Christmas, Easter, etc. except me. I've wanted to quit the 19-23 member get-together for years. Finally, this year, I told my husband ....enough! I want my children to have pleasant memories of their holidays. So yippee, pleasant holidays ahead for us!

 

Good luck, and let us know what happens. Gotta go, bye :auto:

Edited September 30, 2008 by kacifl

[Doran]

The word itself means, among other things, lacking in civility. I don't think that's what you want here. You want boundaries. And, you want her to stop badgering you. Those are not linked up with saying things that might be hurtful. Speak your truths ("We prefer to stay home." "I thought you might be more comfortable in a hotel -- there's one just up the road." "The kids have asked to stay home." "Traveling for the holidays every year doesn't allow us to focus on the spiritual aspect of the season as much as we need to."...) whatever those are. But, don't say the things that have to do with your dreams of retaliation against her.

 

As I read your post I imagined my own mother, who is quite controlling, by nature. We have spent more Christmases with my family over the years (almost 18) than with dh's or at home, because I harbor some sense of "owing" my mother. It's not right. But it is a real, driving force in our decision making. Her birthday is on the 22nd of Dec., which makes it that much more difficult to stay away. All my life I've heard about how people with Christmas birthdays just get overlooked. In recent years, we've felt obligated to be there because (1) It was the last Christmas in their "big house" before they sold it, (2) Dad was hospitalized DURING Christmas for two years running, so it was "only fair" to be there (3) my mother turned 80 this past Christmas, so again, "only fair". This coming year, who knows, but you see the pattern. It's so hard to disappoint our parents!

 

In my case, we struck a compromise. For two years in a row, those years my father was in the hospital, we left Christmas day. That may not be possible for you, but a trip just before or just after the holiday might be an offering that would pacify her, fulfill any obligation you feel you have, while not giving in to her specific demands.

 

Tell your MIL (or have your dh tell her) that you need to stay home this year. Explain that you feel it is important for your children to have traditions established in their own home, with their nuclear family. If you would prefer that your inlaws not even visit, suggest that they come before or after the holiday, or that you'll go there. Offering to find accommodations for them is a great idea and very reasonable. After all, your children are getting bigger and need "their space" as much as your inlaws do.

 

It's not easy. But, the first time you have these conversations is the hardest. They are less anxiety producing after that.

 

Good luck!

[eaglei]

I am so sorry you are going through this - I understand . . .

 

:001_smile:

 

 

 

(I erased my original message - it was way too long . . .):001_unsure:

Edited September 30, 2008 by eaglei