I own Saxon 5/4 but thinking of switching to CLE...

[chilliepepper]

I'm still trying to find my kids' sweet spot for Math.

 

The background: 2 sons, currently grades 3 and 4, both bright but both think they are terrible at math. Sometimes I think they are right, LOL! Not really---it's just that I think they had a bad experience last year with Math Mammoth (grades 2 and 3), which I still think is a good curriculum but they found it tedious.

 

This year, in an effort to simplify and also to woo them back to math, I've been taking them both through Beast Academy 3, even though they are in 3rd and 4th grade. From what I'd read, I gathered that it would be challenging enough for a 4th grader, and doable for a 3rd grader. This has been correct. They have both really enjoyed the style, reading through all the guides as soon as we got them and tolerating the practice pretty well EXCEPT they do get stuck on some of the more challenging starred exercises, further contributing to their perception that they are terrible at math. :/

 

I LOVE Beast Academy. It is so creative in the way that it goes over a concept from different angles, requiring the student to use the skill repeatedly but not killing them with tedium.

 

I think BA 4 will be fine for my now 4th grader next year when he's in 5th grade. However, I think I'd like to ease off on my 3rd grader. He's made it through most of BA 3 this year, but as we've gone on, it's gotten harder and harder for him and I think BA 4 might be too much for him next year. He can read and enjoy the guides, but maybe do something else for his actual "work."

 

With this in mind, I finally went out and bought Saxon 5/4. I had borrowed it from a friend and looked at it enough to decide that 5/4 should be about the right level for him. I have several friends who love Saxon, and I liked the idea of a more independent program.

 

HOWEVER I've since read some glowing reviews of CLE, and I'm wondering if it would be a more motivating format for my son (or maybe both my sons?). The Saxon book is so huge, and maybe intimidating, and...maybe CLE is more gentle? With 10 books for a grade level, maybe giving more of a sense of incremental accomplishment along the way, thus restoring confidence?

 

So...anyone with knowledge/experience of Beast, Saxon and CLE, what do you think? For my rising 4th grader, should I spend yet ANOTHER $35-$50 and go for CLE, even though I already spent $100 plus for a year of Saxon? If so, should I abandon Beast altogether and get CLE for my rising 5th grader as well?

 

Thanks.

[OneStepAtATime]

1.  CLE worked far better for my kids than Saxon but YMMV.  

• Each light unit is small, not intimidating.
• They can write directly in the workbook so they aren't spending the bulk of their time copying.
• The kids did great with the way CLE handles place value (and so did I).
• Lots and lots of review so nothing gets forgotten.
• Since there is so much review it is easy to cross off unnecessary problems (kids love to see that they don't have to do everything on the page).
• Easy to accelerate or slow down.
• Math facts are worked on separately so if certain math facts aren't automatic yet it doesn't slow the child down from progressing with math concepts.
• The math fact flash card system for CLE is brilliantly done.
• Love the CLE reference chart.
• Love that CLE incorporates both metric and Imperial and works on those throughout the program.
• New concepts are introduced gently  then returned to again and again so if something doesn't click right away there is time for it to really sink in.  If it clicks immediately then some of the review can be cut.
• The first light unit of every level after the 100s is review of the previous levels so anything shaky is solidified before moving forward.  If everything is solid then that entire light unit can be skipped.  And this particular light unit helps the teacher determine where exactly there may be gaps in previous concepts/algorithms.  It is set up specifically so you can see where to add in more targeted instruction and review and where the student is fine and can move on.
• The TM makes it easy to grade and offers helpful suggestions when a student struggles or moves quickly.  It also has alternate test options, extra exercises/games, etc.  Also makes it easy to look up previous concepts if a student seems to forget something without having to dig through old light units.
• Light units are written to the student.  They can mostly do things independently unless they have a learning issue or hit a particularly difficult area for them.
• The layout on the page worked well for my kids.

Things I didn't like about CLE:  weak in conceptual word problems.  How to fix that?  Beast Academy... :)

 

What I recommend is that you give the placement test for CLE.  It has a bit different scope and sequence so your kids may not have been exposed to everything CLE covers in those grade levels.  See where they place.  Even if they place below current grade level, don't worry.  See where they missed problems.  It may just be concepts they haven't had yet.  The first light unit of the next level coupled with maybe some Khan Academy videos will probably catch them up.  If they missed quite a few, then put them in the Level they tested into and post back here. There are lots of ways to deal with that scenario.  Like I said, this program is easy to accelerate or slow down.

 

If you decide to try CLE, maybe just buy the first 3-4 light units and see how it goes.  If it works well, fantastic.  If not, then you haven't lost a ton of money and your kids were still doing math so it isn't like they lost a lot of time.

 

I would absolutely continue Beast Academy on the side.  Move slowly if necessary.  Beast is awesome and will fill in the conceptual stuff that CLE is not as strong in.  I think they pair beautifully if you are willing to tweak a bit.  Just don't overwhelm your kids with piles and piles of math.  :)

 

 

[Storygirl]

I haven't used Beast Academy, but I did use many math programs with DD14 before we found something that worked for her. One of our programs was Saxon. After beginning with Singapore (horrible for her), she worked through the early levels of Saxon (very difficult for her), then we switched to Horizons for a year or two (better but still a struggle), then tried Saxon 5/4 in fourth grade (she hated it and found it very hard). By that time I felt desperate, because math was miserable for her. We finally tried CLE in 5th grade (she started at the fourth grade level), and it was like magic. I can't say that she enjoyed math after that, but she no longer cried every day, and she was able to make good forward progress.

 

Now in eighth grade, she is in level 800, so she has used CLE for five levels over four years. I'm sad that she will have to switch to something else soon (CLE revised editions only go through Algebra 1), because it is the only math program that has ever worked for her.

 

So I am a big CLE fan. With that said, since you already purchased Saxon, you might give it a try, unless you can return it. If Saxon doesn't fit well, give CLE a try, but be sure to do the placement tests, because you might not start at the level that you expect. Also, the structure of CLE is a little different with the first light unit of each level, so if you decide to use it, do some research first, either by asking questions here or reading old threads, so that you know what to order and what to expect.

 

ETA: OneStep and I were posting at the same time. She explained a lot of the things that I suggested you research :) .

Edited March 23, 2016 by Storygirl

[OneStepAtATime]

I haven't used Beast Academy, but I did use many math programs with DD14 before we found something that worked for her. One of our programs was Saxon. After beginning with Singapore (horrible for her), she worked through the early levels of Saxon (very difficult for her), then we switched to Horizons for a year or two (better but still a struggle), then tried Saxon 5/4 in fourth grade (she hated it and found it very hard). By that time I felt desperate, because math was miserable for her. We finally tried CLE in 5th grade (she started at the fourth grade level), and it was like magic. I can't say that she enjoyed math after that, but she no longer cried every day, and she was able to make good forward progress.

 

Now in eighth grade, she is in level 800, so she has used CLE for five levels over four years. I'm sad that she will have to switch to something else soon (CLE revised editions only go through Algebra 1), because it is the only math program that has ever worked for her.

 

So I am a big CLE fan. With that said, since you already purchased Saxon, you might give it a try, unless you can return it. If Saxon doesn't fit well, give CLE a try, but be sure to do the placement tests, because you might not start at the level that you expect. Also, the structure of CLE is a little different with the first light unit of each level, so if you decide to use it, do some research first, either by asking questions here or reading old threads, so that you know what to order and what to expect.

OP, Storygirl is right.  CLE revised version only goes through Algebra I.  Great program and it really isn't a big deal to have to switch after Algebra I.  Lots of great programs out there for Geometry and Algebra II that pair well with CLE.  Just wanted to let you know that they are still working on revising CLE Algebra II and eventually Geometry and I am hoping they will finish those within the next 3 years.  Won't help my daughter but I know a lot of people really love CLE and would stick with it all the way through if those were revised.

[chilliepepper]

Looks like we're far enough from the Algebra II and Geometry years that by the time we get there, hopefully CLE will have them finished. Cool!