Ideas on how to deal with this...

[luckymom]

My ds13 is sneaking rap.  I don't mean that I am against all rap.  Just the rap that speaks vilely of women, promotes violence, etc.  I am alarmed by the debauched lyrics and, moreover, by how many adults seem to think nothing of it.  I can't believe it's non-harmful to let kids listen to this stuff.  I have had lots of pleasant talks with him, explained it all rationally, and it goes on.  I am not sure what to do/how to approach this in a balanced way that wins out in the end.  Right now I feel like confiscating any/all tech and locking him up!    

Edited March 22, 2016 by luckymom

[AK_Mom4]

I can't see the age because I am on my phone. And she does matter here - my answer would be different for an 7yo (confiscate everything) as opposed to. 15 yo (just keep talking to them).

 

I try to avoid the Sneak. Bring it out in the open. For an older kid, sit and listen to it with them. Give them a space to discuss and listen safely. If content is an issue for younger children in the house, they might need to confine it to a bedroom or other isolated space.

[catz]

It would depend on the age.  If this is a high schooler, I would open the door to discussion and let him know exactly what I'm not comfortable with.  I don't think I would ban a music style in a otherwise reasonably well mannered high schooler but I might say I don't want to hear it and that younger sibs can't hear it, or whatever limits make sense in your house.

 

If this were a younger child, I'd probably crack down on the technology.  Tech only in main areas of house, parental controls on, time limits, etc.  And again, I'd have a discussion with a younger child too why you are not comfortable with that type of music.

Edited March 22, 2016 by WoolySocks

[ktgrok]

Sit down with a print out of the lyrics and have the child read them out loud to you. If he finds that embarrasssing, ask why. Maybe that will help him understand it isn't appropriate?

[Jean in Newcastle]

My son went through a rap phase. I let him listen to Christian rap like Toby Mac.

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[luckymom]

Sorry.  DS13.

[KarenNC]

My husband has said that rap from other countries tends to be much less vulgar and more about issues. Try the cast album from "Hamilton" as well since he likes the style. It's currently on an almost permanent loop in our house rght now.

[MEmama]

At 13, I would just talk to him. Explain, as others have said, what it is you find objectionable and gauge his reaction. I wouldn't attempt to ban his choice of music, though. You're only going to lose that battle in addition to a lot of goodwill.

 

Lyrics and language don't bother me. I listened to a lot of stuff at that age that surprises me now, and it didn't have any ill effect (remember Quiet Riot? Prince? I could go on...). If it's the way that women are being portrayed, now is a good time to be having those discussions regardless of musical taste. I'd actually separate the two, if it were me. No teen wants to feel judged, and if this the worst thing you're dealing with...it doesn't seem so bad to me in the big picture. We may have very different parenting styles, however.

[marbel]

Yes, I would talk to him before I'd start banning anything.  I like the idea of printing out lyrics and having him read them aloud. 

 

There has always been objectionable content in popular music.  Well, maybe not always but at least in my lifetime.  I agree that it's all gotten uglier. But as a pp said, I think about stuff I listened to as a teen/young adult and nothing happened.  Mostly it was the music I liked, and the lyrics were unimportant to me.   I think if a child is well-grounded in other ways, listening to rap isn't going to make him treat women badly, become violent, etc.  

[Farrar]

There's plenty of good rap and hip hop out there that isn't degrading to women. And a lot of the messages about romance really aren't really distinguishable for me from pop music these days (in other words, yeah, not always so good, but I don't see it as significantly different). There's a long tradition in rap and hip hop of exploring darker issues - drugs, death, police brutality, depression, abuse, etc. Sometimes the messages are pretty complex - I'd look closely at the lyrics before judging too quickly - sometimes there's a chorus that seems to have a different message if you take the whole song. But generally I'd seek out positive stuff first and listen together. I think from the OP that it seems obvious that you don't have an appreciation of the genre in general so I'd start there for yourself. I'd do a search for something like "positive rap music" or something along those lines and make a playlist for you and him with a variety of stuff. Of course you can try to ban specific things... but I'd start at the other end by trying to appreciate and look for the good in it. Rap is just an art form - one with some stellar, positive examples that are fine for kids.

 

I second putting Hamilton on repeat though. Because... What's your name, man? Hamilton! (Warning: it will be stuck in your head)

[luckymom]

This is not about my musical preferences.  

 

Look at these rap lyrics ... http://genius.com/Yo-gotti-down-in-the-dm-lyrics

 

Really, parents of 13 year old think this is ok?

[Mom2Five]

I'm in a very bad mood today, so take with that in mind but id prob start listening to it too and making a fool out of myself and ruin it for them. Who wants to listen to what their parents are listening to. LOl

I might have a more mature answer for you tomorrow.

Edited March 22, 2016 by Mom2Five

[MEmama]

This is not about my musical preferences.

 

Look at these rap lyrics ... http://genius.com/Yo-gotti-down-in-the-dm-lyrics

 

Really, parents of 13 year old think this is ok?

I don't even know what it means.

 

Look, it may not be a parent's preference, but I think banning things like music isn't going to have a net positive effect on a relationship with a teen.I think the parent will lose the battle (you say he is "sneaking" it, which indicates you've already lost), and potentially so much more.

 

I think we have very different parenting goals, however. I hope you find the advice you are looking for. :)

[Scarlett]

This is not about my musical preferences.

 

Look at these rap lyrics ... http://genius.com/Yo-gotti-down-in-the-dm-lyrics

 

Really, parents of 13 year old think this is ok?

I have a 16 year old boy and he would not listen to that while under my roof. I recognize he can rebel against my counsel and sneak it, but I would not compound the problem by allowing it.

 

I like the idea of printout the lyrics and making him read them to you. Not in a shame him way but look let's have a reality check about what you are listening to and supporting.

[Scarlett]

Music is very powerful and I have seen it lead to/ be part of the down fall for many kids.

I don't make my 16 year old eat his vegetables anymore....but I will continue to monitor his entertainment.

Edited March 22, 2016 by Scarlett

[k10coon]

I have to pipe in here about printing the lyrics.  While it was a different circumstance I did this when my boys 11 & 13 started using the term dou*** bag (which they learned at scouts).  I made them take turns reading the medical definition out loud to me and dad.  

 

They never used the term again.

[6packofun]

Sit down with a print out of the lyrics and have the child read them out loud to you. If he finds that embarrasssing, ask why. Maybe that will help him understand it isn't appropriate?

 

Oooh, I like this.  I'm all for talking things out, but kids KNOW when the lyrics are raunchy and bad.  

 

My suggestion was going to be posting the lyrics on his FB page if he had one and asking all his female friends if they like being talked about/to that way, but that's probably too aggressive.  LOL

[HRAAB]

I have a 16 year old boy and he would not listen to that while under my roof. I recognize he can rebel against my counsel and sneak it, but I would not compound the problem by allowing it.

 

I like the idea of printout the lyrics and making him read them to you. Not in a shame him way but look let's have a reality check about what you are listening to and supporting.

 

I'm more on the liberal side and usually wouldn't censor, while reserving my parental right to do so (and have on a couple occasions), but... I agree with Scarlett.  I would print out the lyrics and ask him to read them and if he thinks they are appropriate and share a good message.  Hopefully, he would see why they are not appropriate or good, and that will take care of this problem.  If he doesn't see the issue, I don't know.  I would think he would be embarrassed to read them to you.

 

Anything that demeans women, promote violence, or basically devalues human life I don't tolerate in my house.  Thankfully, my girls never pushed this issue with me.  While I didn't like all the music they listened to, the lyrics never pushed my limits.  Of course, what they listened to in their cars or away from the house, I don't know.  I would think giving him some other options - with lyrics that fall within your family's rules - might be a good idea.

 

eta:  I admit it, I don't even know what the lyrics mean. DM? BM?

Edited March 22, 2016 by Ishki

[MaeFlowers]

I can see why you don't like the lyrics. They are awful for many reasons. The sheer stupidity of them bothers me more than anything. An adult communicates like this? I wouldn't want my DC listening to it either.

 

But, I've seen the outcome of banning things in the home like music. Ask my dh, for one. It creates an atmosphere where DC learn to simply avoid their parents or be dishonest. It makes it really tricky.

 

I think making them read the lyrics to you is the best idea I've heard yet. It will make them think about what their listening to. Honestly, he may have no idea what they are saying and what it really means.

[ktgrok]

I'm more on the liberal side and usually wouldn't censor, while reserving my parental right to do so (and have on a couple occasions), but... I agree with Scarlett.  I would print out the lyrics and ask him to read them and if he thinks they are appropriate and share a good message.  Hopefully, he would see why they are not appropriate or good, and that will take care of this problem.  If he doesn't see the issue, I don't know.  I would think he would be embarrassed to read them to you.

 

Anything that demeans women, promote violence, or basically devalues human life I don't tolerate in my house.  Thankfully, my girls never pushed this issue with me.  While I didn't like all the music they listened to, the lyrics never pushed my limits.  Of course, what they listened to in their cars or away from the house, I don't know.  I would think giving him some other options - with lyrics that fall within your family's rules - might be a good idea.

 

eta:  I admit it, I don't even know what the lyrics mean. DM? BM?

 

There was a side bar explaining it. He's talking about hitting on women via direct messaging (like on Facebook or the like) and having them show him explicit photos of themselves, as well as hitting on women who have boyfriends (not him). 

[TechWife]

Oooh, I like this.  I'm all for talking things out, but kids KNOW when the lyrics are raunchy and bad.  

 

My suggestion was going to be posting the lyrics on his FB page if he had one and asking all his female friends if they like being talked about/to that way, but that's probably too aggressive.  LOL

 

I think this is a terrible idea. Shame based discipline rarely works and serves to drive a wedge in relationships. 

[6packofun]

I think this is a terrible idea. Shame based discipline rarely works and serves to drive a wedge in relationships. 

 

I think it's a terrible idea to listen to music that shames women and would probably lead to relationships with all kinds of wedges if that's the kind of character he's building, but that's just me.  

 

(I also admitted it was probably a bit aggressive, but I think that it would also have been instructive.)

[TechWife]

I think it's a terrible idea to listen to music that shames women and would probably lead to relationships with all kinds of wedges if that's the kind of character he's building, but that's just me.  

 

(I also admitted it was probably a bit aggressive, but I think that it would also have been instructive.)

 

This is illogical. If I follow your line of thought, It's not okay to shame women, but it's okay to shame children. 

[ktgrok]

It's adding an external level of conscience. If he thinks there is nothing to be ashamed of, as he seems to, then he can show that. But if he does get embarrassed, maybe that will be a trigger to him to admit there is something wrong. Heck, she can read the lyrics, and he can listen. 

[Carrie12345]

13 is a cusp, imo, so I'm guessing I would attempt a compromise somewhere.  Lots of talk, perhaps some limits involving certain artists/songs.

 

For whatever it's worth, I had a pretty big rap phase in my early to late teens, and I definitely consider myself a full-fledged feminist.  My own kids don't listen to rap voluntarily, but they hear plenty in my car.  Where I can turn off songs that go outside my discussion comfort level at this time.

[Farrar]

This is not about my musical preferences.  

 

Look at these rap lyrics ... http://genius.com/Yo-gotti-down-in-the-dm-lyrics

 

Really, parents of 13 year old think this is ok?

 

No, obviously not cool.

 

However, as with any interest that kids acquire, when you know nothing about it, it's hard to guide them toward a healthy version of that interest. If you know nothing about computer games, it's hard to go from "I'm not okay with Call of Duty" and "you must limit your screen time asap!" to "here are some good alternatives" and "here's some experience on how to play and walk away" if you don't know other games on the market and have no experience finding a balance between life and gaming yourself.

 

I think it's the same with anything new and strange to us that kids dive into - definitely the same here. I come from the approach that banning without any other approach (and definitely shaming or blaming as discussed in some responses) isn't going to achieve anything with a teen except to drive a wedge between you two and make him seek it out in secret and not take your views seriously. It's okay to have a two pronged attack on this - one prong may be "here's the rules, this isn't allowed" but I think it won't work unless there's a second prong that says, "and here's what *is* allowed and here's how we can connect and discuss."

 

Maybe it's an assignment. Maybe he should have to go research the lyrics. Maybe he should have to seek out better music or do a presentation for you on the history of sexism and hip hop music and culture. If it's a serious like, then give him a way to advocate and be thoughtful and engage.

 

ETA: I don't actually know if you don't know anything about rap... I just said I got that vibe from how you phrased your OP. Feel free to correct me. And if you do, I'd definitely use that as an in to talk about why you don't think those lyrics are okay and which ones you do.

Edited March 22, 2016 by Farrar

[luckymom]

No, obviously not cool.

 

However, as with any interest that kids acquire, when you know nothing about it, it's hard to guide them toward a healthy version of that interest. If you know nothing about computer games, it's hard to go from "I'm not okay with Call of Duty" and "you must limit your screen time asap!" to "here are some good alternatives" and "here's some experience on how to play and walk away" if you don't know other games on the market and have no experience finding a balance between life and gaming yourself.

 

I think it's the same with anything new and strange to us that kids dive into - definitely the same here. I come from the approach that banning without any other approach (and definitely shaming or blaming as discussed in some responses) isn't going to achieve anything with a teen except to drive a wedge between you two and make him seek it out in secret and not take your views seriously. It's okay to have a two pronged attack on this - one prong may be "here's the rules, this isn't allowed" but I think it won't work unless there's a second prong that says, "and here's what *is* allowed and here's how we can connect and discuss."

 

Maybe it's an assignment. Maybe he should have to go research the lyrics. Maybe he should have to seek out better music or do a presentation for you on the history of sexism and hip hop music and culture. If it's a serious like, then give him a way to advocate and be thoughtful and engage.

 

ETA: I don't actually know if you don't know anything about rap... I just said I got that vibe from how you phrased your OP. Feel free to correct me. And if you do, I'd definitely use that as an in to talk about why you don't think those lyrics are okay and which ones you do.

I am familiar with rap and not against the music style itself. I care about the lyrics.  So, it could be pop, jazz, hip hop, whatever, and I would not have a problem with the music, but I would care about what the lyrics are saying.  It seems to me that a person can become desensitized to really awful things by making them part of their every day life and vocabulary through a catchy beat.

[HSmomof2]

I have a 13 yo Ds, and no, I would not want him listening to lyrics like that. I agree with printing them out and talking about it with him. I'd also have Dh talk with him as well. Then, I'd spend time finding appropriate rap music and letting him pick from a selection that doesn't contain crude or violent lyrics.

[Grantmom]

I am very open and honest with my kids and we talk a lot.  We just talk about things we do, hear,  and see, in the world, on the news, all around us.  I think this is one of the best things about homeschooling.  So, while I would not let my 13 year old listen to that, I would be talking about it a lot, why I didn't like it, why it was inappropriate, and I wouldn't do it in a way that shames or blames him.  We would just be talking about why.  But, how is he sneaking it?  I mean, I am pretty much with my kids all day, and we hear and see pretty much the same stuff.  My kids don't live in a bubble, we just are together a lot because we homeschool.  Is he listening to it when he is with friends away from your house?  I also wouldn't let my 13 yo play Call of Duty, just by the fact that it's not a game I would buy to have in my house.  Now, if he were to go to a friend's house and it was being played, it would have to be his decision.  But that is what is great about these teen years.  You get to talk about these things and share your opinions and perspective, and then they get to go out into the world and make these decisions for themselves, while still coming home to you to discuss it more.  I would try to focus on building the relationship with DS, and keep the lines of communication open.

 

 

[luckymom]

I appreciate all of your ideas and think I will print out the lyrics and read them aloud to him, then talk about it.

 

Please share any rap music (song, artist) that you listen to that does not have lyrics demeaning women and promoting violence.

[JudoMom]

I appreciate all of your ideas and think I will print out the lyrics and read them aloud to him, then talk about it.

 

Please share any rap music (song, artist) that you listen to that does not have lyrics demeaning women and promoting violence.

Lacrae

[whitestavern]

Just putting my two cents out here that it's certainly not just rap that contains lyrics degrading women (or any other topic one might find offensive) So if you really didn't want your child listening to those kinds of lyrics, you'd pretty much have to create appropriate playlists. I'm much more a fan of talking to them about the topics and why you don't like them just to get them to start thinking about it themselves. It's pretty hard to ban these kinds of things.

 

 

[luckymom]

Just putting my two cents out here that it's certainly not just rap that contains lyrics degrading women (or any other topic one might find offensive) So if you really didn't want your child listening to those kinds of lyrics, you'd pretty much have to create appropriate playlists. I'm much more a fan of talking to them about the topics and why you don't like them just to get them to start thinking about it themselves. It's pretty hard to ban these kinds of things.

 

 

I understand and mentioned before that I am not ok with these themes in lyrics across the musical spectrum.  I am not picking on rap.  It's just that rap is the musical style he is interested in (not pop).  

[luckymom]

Lacrae

 

 

Thanks.

[ktgrok]

I appreciate all of your ideas and think I will print out the lyrics and read them aloud to him, then talk about it.

 

Please share any rap music (song, artist) that you listen to that does not have lyrics demeaning women and promoting violence.

 

You can also have him, or you, insert the name of one of his female friends, or sister, etc in the place of the female in the song. Let him see how he feels about it if it was someone he knew that was being talked about that way. 

[Lady Marmalade]

I grew up in a "Good Christian Household" where much music was banned.  It truly was the beginning of a bad slippery slope for me.  I snuck music.  And sneaking music turned into sneaking out, and sneaking in.  I may have been rebellious anyway, but looking back I always thought the music is what started it.

 

So, with my own children, I've decided that there are no limits/rules/regulations about music.  They can listen to what they want, and I listen with them when we are in the car traveling.  This has led to lots of interesting discussions and music changes.  For example, when the recent song "Cake By The Ocean" came out, we all thought it was a fun song to listen to.  Then we liked it even more when we learned who the artist was.  Which led to a bunny trail about the song.  I learned that the entire theme of the song is a euphemism for something else on the beach...  It really only took one gentle conversation with my 12 year old DS to understand what the song was about, which now leads to that song being turned off every time it comes on.  Usually DS will add something like "Sure wish that song didn't mean what it means, because I used to really like it."

 

I think if you just talk to your DS and discuss some of the lyrics, he'll probably agree with you.  So often you can't even understand the lyrics until they are printed out in front of you.  

 

DS has recently been singing along to a lot of 21 Pilots.  They have some rap in their music, it's kind of fusiony - the song Stressed Out comes to mind. What I've heard is not objectionable.  

[amo_mea_filiis.]

http://www.azlyrics.com/lyrics/akinyele/putitinyourmouth.html

 

http://www.azlyrics.com/lyrics/missymisdemeanorelliott/oneminuteman.html

 

I had these songs nearly on repeat when I was a young teen. I don't think it hurt me. I got over the phase and moved on. I'm not sure which my father hated more; the above and similar, or the country! Lol

 

As long as it's *just* music, I don't limit. If the music influences behavior or mood, I'll limit.

 

My 11 year old is a drummer. He LOVES Avenged Sevenfold. For him, the lyrics mean nothing. The drumming is great, the speed calms him down, and he's always motivated to play better.

[Cindy in FL.]

I'd be tempted to play it and sing along. Which would probably be embarrassing on several fronts! I don't particularly like rap or heavy metal, but I wouldn't ban them because of that. I do object to inappropriate lyrics no matter what genre of music. My boys listen to all kinds of music and we've not had any issues. Yet.

[ktgrok]

I should say, although I'm the one that suggested printing out the lyrics, i wouldn't ban it. I WOULD make it clear that I never want to hear it, so if he is listening it better be with headphones. I won't be the thought police, but I will shine a light on darkness, and call out things that are inappropriate and why. But if after that he chooses to listen, that's on him. 

[Jean in Newcastle]

Grits

 

[Tree Frog]

There was a side bar explaining it. He's talking about hitting on women via direct messaging (like on Facebook or the like) and having them show him explicit photos of themselves, as well as hitting on women who have boyfriends (not him).

Thanks for explaining that. I'm on my phone and couldn't see the sidebar.

[luckymom]

I just want to point out that I never spoke of banning rap.  I never said I was against rap.  And, I never spoke of shaming my ds.

 

I spoke of lyrics that contain harmful messages about women and violence.  I asked about how to deal with his sneaking and with his listening to the offensive lyrics.  

 

A lot of the posts have made it seem that I am against rap, or for banning whatever I don't personally like, or that I may want to shame my ds.  

 

I am not against any type of music.  I am not for banning.  I am not for shaming.

 

I am for my ds NOT thinking it's ok to speak of women in sickening ways.

Edited March 23, 2016 by luckymom

[Scarlett]

I just want to point out that I never spoke of banning rap. I never said I was against rap. And, I never spoke of shaming my ds.

 

I spoke of lyrics that contain harmful messages about women and violence. I asked about how to deal with his sneaking and with his listening to the offensive lyrics.

 

A lot of the posts have made it seem that I am against rap, or for banning whatever I don't personally like, or that I may want to shame my ds.

 

I am not against any type of music. I am not for banning. I am not for shaming.

 

I am for my ds NOT thinking it's ok to speak of women in sickening ways.

Unfortunately you can guide but you can't force proper thoughts. I would not instantly ban anything. I sure wouldn't ban an entire genre because all types of music have something object able. But if you have already discussed this topic with him, he knows how you feel about it...and is choosing to go against your wishes and hide what he is listening to....then what choice do you have?

1) ignore his sneaking and thereby condone his choice of music. And encourage more sneaking of other things,

2) tell him you have already discussed this with him and you wish he didn't like such degrading music but you won't allow such in your home.

[mathnerd]

 

Please share any rap music (song, artist) that you listen to that does not have lyrics demeaning women and promoting violence.

I am not even sure if this rap or hip-hop or both, but, I have been listening to Hamilton (it has a few explicit words, so I have not shared it with my DS), but, if it can be played at the White House, it can be played for a 13 year old interested in rap. I like the history lesson in it and I also like the creativity of the cast. I only wish that they had a version without the explicit words so that I can share it with my 8 year old. Here is the full album on youtube:

 

 

ETA: Here is a link to the lyrics for all the songs. If you click on the hyperlink of the title on the right, you can get the official lyrics.

 

http://genius.com/albums/Lin-manuel-miranda/Hamilton-original-broadway-cast-recording

 

 

 

 

Edited March 23, 2016 by mathnerd

[Farrar]

We just listen to Hamilton with all the lyrics... but we're not fussed by bad words when the overall message is fine.

 

I'd look for a premade list... I know things but they're old. This list has some older and newer songs:

http://hubpages.com/entertainment/List-of-Positive-Rap-Songs-then-and-now

 

This is also older and newer artists:

http://madamenoire.com/278863/responsible-rappers-with-mostly-clean-lyrics/

 

A quick search didn't give me anything super recent though - as in, from the last year. I'm too old and out of touch to know what's hip. Other than Hamilton, of course. The cool kids are listening to it.

[ashfern]

I appreciate all of your ideas and think I will print out the lyrics and read them aloud to him, then talk about it.

 

Please share any rap music (song, artist) that you listen to that does not have lyrics demeaning women and promoting violence.

 

Toby Mac

[AmandaVT]

This may be a crazy suggestion, but what if you made a school assignment for him? He could do a little research on his current favorite rap artist and then maybe one with less offensive lyrics. He could write out the lyrics, see if he can figure out what each song means, look into the history of each artist, etc. There are a number of different paths he could take with his research and it could actually be an interesting project for him. 

 

Doing a quick google search gave me:

 

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/18828414

 

http://pediatrics.aappublications.org/content/118/2/e430

 

http://www.upworthy.com/and-this-is-how-a-great-rap-artist-responds-to-hip-hops-obsession-with-degrading-women

 

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/hip-hop-misogyny-double-standard_us_55cdf7b9e4b07addcb42a7b8

 

http://mic.com/articles/123046/these-13-empowering-lyrics-are-pushing-back-against-hip-hop-s-misogyny#.Qs7Ut3qNg