Foreign Language- how do you get your kids to do it?

[housemouse]

I am running out of ideas on how to get ds interested (even remotely interested) in getting his language done. Schools here require minimum of 2 years of the same language to graduate, few universities we are looking at require 3 years of the same language. Last year he tried Spanish and Japanese (both his choice) and that lasted about a month. This year, I have been on top of him with Russian and he will do it but retention is not there because he is not into it so to speak. He is able but does not want to. He'd rather go to the dentist or write a research report rather than work on his language (and he despises writing so that somewhat paints a picture). Since I know Russian, I figured it would be simpler since I could help with pronunciation and practice and the finite titbits of Russian grammar- no, ds totally fights it but does not want to do it with me or on his own. Tutor is not an option and he does not want to take any online classes... I do not think it is the language itself that is a issue- he just has no interest in language study- he is my math and science child and anything else is not a priority to him.

 

I would appreciate any and all suggestions and ideas that may help in this scenario.

 

Thank you so very much.

[J-rap]

It was the main thing we always outsourced.  That worked!

[housemouse]

I wish I could- but the price tag is beyond ridiculous and no one around here does Russian.

 

[Reefgazer]

"It is required to graduate; it's not an option.  Foreign language ssignments will be completed before anything socially interesting happens on the weekend."

 

I agree that outsourcing may get you to your goals better than you teaching him, in this case.  Although I am mostly unimpressed by co-ops, that may be a lower-cost option in this case.

Edited March 18, 2016 by reefgazer

[theelfqueen]

Which program or books are you using?

 

[SparklyUnicorn]

Which materials did you use for either language?

[housemouse]

Rosetta Stone- which crashed on our computers too much so we gave up.

Right now it is Duolingo and Mango languages along with books in Russian/audio books I already had. I also help him with actual pronunciation because he does not pronounce it correctly since he does not care for learning it.  

He is capable of learning an doing he just does not want to. His younger brother is using the same material and he is way ahead of him, his brother learned all the alphabet and memorized the entire syllable chart in one week and can read basic Russian all within 2 months so I know it is not the materials we are using, it is the student. 

 

As far a co-ops or emersion/Saturday schools- Spanish is the main language, followed by Chinese- that is only once a week for 1-2 hours- and again either the price tag is too steep for what you get of they require parent to teach in a co-op (I would have to hire a babysitter for that since I have kids too young for co-op)

[theelfqueen]

I agree completely that it doesn't mean the material is flawed but it might not be the right material for HIM... My son started Russian with Rosetta but I felt like it was too conversational not enough reading/writing for his needs. I was fluent once (lived in Tula) but am FAR from fluent now (though I'm speedily picking it back up and had a decent conversation with a native speaker at a place where we volunteer recently). He just wasn't progressing in the way I felt he should.

 

We went to the UCLA text, and it's GOOD but it moved too fast for him and in a non-linear directions.

I practiced and drilled alphabet with him and he still mixes letters. SO FRUSTRATING.

 

But I moved him to Reading Russian : Total Beginners and it's totally working! We don't use the audio -- I work it with him directly. I definitely think having 1-on-1 interaction was important for his improving success.

 

I told him we could go back to the UCLA book after he completes this one (it's short) but he asked me to move to Step by Step altogether.

 

I've also heard really good things about (and like the website of the author of) the Sputnik text. Also the

videos are a good supplement (Though my son says mean things about Svetlana when I suggest he watch one LOL :)

 

ETA: Also I have him making a big vocabulary list... Every word he learns goes in the notebook. I've put tape flags with the letters of the alphabet (only letters that words start with -- neither znak for example) on every other page and he just adds them to their section. This is good writing practice.

Edited March 18, 2016 by theelfqueen

[OneStepAtATime]

:grouphug:  :grouphug:  :grouphug: 

 

Learning another language can be really, really hard.  I took Spanish and French for several years.  Didn't do me a bit of good.  I have retained very, very little, even with one of those languages being spoken around me on a regular basis.  He may have very little motivation because it really is that hard.  Having a younger brother that is doing much better than he is almost certainly isn't helping.  

 

That doesn't fix the problem, though.  The best way to have a hope of learning a language is through consistent effort and exposure and if he fights you that makes it tough on both of you.  

 

Could you change up the dynamic a bit?  Maybe if he watched some interesting shows in that language?  He likes science.  What about some science documentaries in Russian?  Action Adventure movies?  Set a time limit each day for targeted practice in that language so he knows it won't last forever.  Keep lessons really short for a while.  Motivation is everything.  If he can't do anything else until he finishes that 15 minutes of targeted practice (yes maybe start out that short) maybe that would at least get him trying a bit each day.

 

Another possibility would be to look into alternatives.   Some colleges accept ASL or computer programming in lieu of a foreign language.  

Good luck and best wishes.

 

 

[madteaparty]

Maybe he doesn't need to be interested. Maybe he just needs to do it. I have no experience with high school kids however.

My child is not "interested" in anything other than Legos and skiing.

I have to say it has occurred to me he might begin to say "no" to some extra things. This is why we are at least starting the languages in middle school so we get a few years in before he really opposes me. When he inquires why he has to do French every single day, I simply tell him that that's what we do here. As he gets better at something, he is more inclined to do more of it.

[housemouse]

I agree completely that it doesn't mean the material is flawed but it might not be the right material for HIM... My son started Russian with Rosetta but I felt like it was too conversational not enough reading/writing for his needs. I was fluent once (lived in Tula) but am FAR from fluent now (though I'm speedily picking it back up and had a decent conversation with a native speaker at a place where we volunteer recently). He just wasn't progressing in the way I felt he should.

 

We went to the UCLA text, and it's GOOD but it moved too fast for him and in a non-linear directions.

I practiced and drilled alphabet with him and he still mixes letters. SO FRUSTRATING.

 

But I moved him to Reading Russian : Total Beginners and it's totally working! We don't use the audio -- I work it with him directly. I definitely think having 1-on-1 interaction was important for his improving success.

 

I told him we could go back to the UCLA book after he completes this one (it's short) but he asked me to move to Step by Step altogether.

 

I've also heard really good things about (and like the website of the author of) the Sputnik text. Also the RussianPod101 videos are a good supplement (Though my son says mean things about Svetlana when I suggest he watch one LOL :)

 

ETA: Also I have him making a big vocabulary list... Every word he learns goes in the notebook. I've put tape flags with the letters of the alphabet (only letters that words start with -- neither znak for example) on every other page and he just adds them to their section. This is good writing practice.

Thank you .

I checked it all out and looks like Step by Step will fit him best at this time. Are the workbooks worth the price?

Edited March 18, 2016 by housemouse

[EKS]

I had my kid like that do Latin through Oak Meadow. They use Cambridge, which is on the less rigorous side. It was mostly just exercises and translations.

[Hilltopmom]

Same problem here. Doesn't help that I have never pushed it & honestly, it's not like he'll actually learn a language by just studying it at home for 2 years. It's just checking a box.

It's not required by our homeschool regs, but most colleges expect it.

 

Next year, we're taking the "you just plain have to do it "approach as Plan A.

 

Plan B is dual enrollment at community college & sucking it up and paying for it ourselves.

[theelfqueen]

I would start with the Total Beginners book -- we're really happy with it and it is less expensive than the first Step By Step and would give you a feel for it. (There's a children's version -- cutting out some of the references to whiskey and cigarettes -- but hey, those were words I totally needed in Russia LOL) The author says "If you are a total Beginner and cannot read Russian please start with Russian Step by Step Reading Russian book. You can learn more about this series on our site: russianstepbystep.com" . That gives you a starting point and a feel for the program. 

 

The main book is 390 pages, The beginners book is only about 60 pages -- I was worried that I might have spent too much but the lessons are good and he's making better progress than ever before.

[theelfqueen]

Margaret - I love you.

 

[mumto2]

My ds needs to know exactly what he needs to do to be considered done with classes he doesn't like. Exactly. He really likes it when my answer is be able to pass blank exam (something standardized) with this score.

[G5052]

I often wonder how many people actually end up using Rosetta Stone successfully. Despite hearing about problems getting it to actually work, I bought the Spanish one. And no, we never got it to completely work. I spent hours with them on the phone, and then one day it had "expired," and they ceased to support our version. What a waste of money!

 

I taught my own Latin, and actually bartered for Latin at one point when they reached the point of needing more advanced teaching. I also bartered for piano lessons for quite awhile.

 

There's a single young man in my church who offers Russian tutoring in exchange for dinner!

 

 

[Rosie_0801]

Do ASL. It moves. It doesn't require writing. And two years is enough to have a workable knowledge of the language- not perfect, but enough to actually get around.

[nobeatenpath]

Have you considered outsourcing to an online teacher, whether it is skype lessons or email or something? I don't know about your kid but often mine works better with being accountable to an outside teacher rather than me (sad but true :closedeyes: )

We are also reaching a point where quite a few subjects are no longer 'are you interested in this?' and 'you are no longer interested or motivated? Well find something else' and are becoming 'sorry, we have to commit'. Offer to help them find the path to get there, but point out that you HAVE to get there, whether they are loving it or not.

[Lori D.]

Waited till 12th grade. Outsourced 2 semesters as dual enrollment at the local community college, with each semester = 1 credit. Not on me to make them do it, they got to dip a toe into college to try it out before going full time, they worked hard for an outside teacher, and it simultaneously knocked out 2 of the required 4 semesters of foreign language needed towards a college degree. Bam, done. ;)

Edited March 19, 2016 by Lori D.

[jenn-]

Dd will be duel enrolling Spanish this up coming school year. I could in theory do it at home, but I know she will work harder for the college prof. Right now I have started her on Duolingo just to start building vocabulary up. I keep telling her that most kids going into college Spanish probably took it in high school so she will have to do serious catch up in that regards. I'm also trying to convince her to learn Chinese instead because everyone will probably at the same newbie level for it, and the prof is someone I play D&D with.

[Amira]

Another vote for outsourcing. We've done a lot of languages through the years, but the only things that have ever really worked is either hiring a tutor or sending the kid to a class. Tutors and classes are expensive in our current temporary location, but my ds in tenth grade is taking Spanish 3 at the local public high school and that option had worked well for us. I am planning on finding a college Spanish class after we move again because money has to be spent on college credits sometime.

If outsourcing absolutely isn't an option, I agree with the others that you'll just have to require that Russian get done, since it actually is a graduation requirement. Since you speak at least enough Russian to get him through the required high school Russian, it could be a good option to treat Russian like a more formal class in your home with you as the teacher.

Also, I think RS isn't a good resource.

Edited March 19, 2016 by Amira

[SparklyUnicorn]

Another idea is to not have him do it.  Colleges may look for it, but I don't think it's always an automatic deal breaker.  If he does not have it, they'll likely make him take it in college.  Having a teacher teach it and being in a group setting may be the motivation he needs to get it done.  I have tried to learn languages on my own in the past and not much came of it.  Doing it with a class worked better.

 

I have Rosetta Stone.  It's not that great.  For one thing it does not explicitly teach grammar. 

[freesia]

I signed him up for Homeschool Spanish Academy and told him he had to do it. Having to speak via Skype with someone was motivation for him to do the homework, studying, etc.

 

3 years of FL are a requirement in our homeschool (although I do have one with mild dyslexia for whom I may adapt this requirement depending on how he does.)

[SilverMoon]

Duolingo. And it's on the schedule. The school day is not over until you've done it.

 

Duolingo has Russian. It's free and gets FAR better reviews than Rosetta Stone. He can do it on a computer or download the app onto a tablet or even a phone. It would make him read it, speak it, write it, and hear it. It does not however teach a lick of grammar. You'd want to teach that on the side or have him work through a basic grammar book. Require 30 minutes a day. Done.

[SparklyUnicorn]

You know what might be a fun way to "study"....get some Spanish movies/shows (or TV) and everyday spend some time watching them. 

 

 

[Luckymama]

You know what might be a fun way to "study"....get some Spanish movies/shows (or TV) and everyday spend some time watching them.

Dd watched Egyptian "Sesame Street" the other day! (Look for Sesame Street Around the World on amazon----8 or 9 (?) episodes from various countries were free the other day.)

[Kendall]

I agree with the they don't have to be interested, just have to do it posters.  That maybe coupled with some new materials and a Russian speaking trip to his favorite restaurant with Mom?  

 

But if you want to look at another language, I also was going to suggest ASL.  Especially if you could find a local class or Deaf person for occasional live practice (swap lawn mowing or something for tutoring?).  Sometimes local churches will have free classes.  

 

You can get enough proficiency in 2 years (or even a year) to hold a conversation(albeit quite slowly compared to Deaf speed!).  My daughter knew enough to help someone at the place that she volunteers.  My son wasn't sold on ASL ahead of time, but has ended up enjoying it.  We have used the materials from lifeprint.com.  It is the material the instructor teaches his college classes.

 

They both were much more proficient after a year than my older son was after a year of Spanish.  Not even close.

 

 

[Closeacademy]

We're doing Japanese but it helps that my daughters actually want to learn it so that they don't have to rely on subtitles to understand what people are saying when they watch anime and they'd love to learn enough to be able to buy games that are only available in Japanese for their DS.

 

The big thing we do is make it a priority everyday to do something.  On school days, it's working with vocabulary, grammar, kanji, etc. or working on Rosetta Stone.  And most days they watch at least 30 min of anime which helps greatly with many things.  And they listen to a lot of music in Japanese on their own.  Youtube is also a great resource for lots of different languages.

[theelfqueen]

Maybe some effort at Russian culture -- beautiful onion domes, Rus wooden architecture styles, Faberge eggs, great music and ballet, or stories about how bloody Ivan the Terrible was (These appeal to teenage boys!), the Russian Revolution and the slaughter of the Imperial FAmily (RASPUTIN!!!),  the Soviet Space program ... something else that might interest him.

 

And BLINI. BLINI are the secret superpower of Russian culture.

And Piroshki.

And Markiza.

And Syrniky.

And Hleb.

 

OK I'm having Russian food fantasies, I should stop now.

Edited March 20, 2016 by theelfqueen

[housemouse]

Maybe some effort at Russian culture -- beautiful onion domes, Rus wooden architecture styles, Faberge eggs, great music and ballet, or stories about how bloody Ivan the Terrible was (These appeal to teenage boys!), the Russian Revolution and the slaughter of the Imperial FAmily (RASPUTIN!!!),  the Soviet Space program ... something else that might interest him.

 

And BLINI. BLINI are the secret superpower of Russian culture.

And Piroshki.

And Markiza.

And Syrniky.

And Hleb.

 

OK I'm having Russian food fantasies, I should stop now.

 

We got the food down pat. Syrniky is just about every Saturday morning. Borshch is a go to in the winter when it is cold. Blini is super yummy. And few others.

Yes, the tzars and the wars are totally ds thing. We have covered much of what you have listed.

[lllll]

nm

Edited April 20, 2016 by _ ?^..

[madteaparty]

So I am glad the cultural hook works for some kids. My ds is not particularly fond of France (French is his main foreign language), *especially* after spending time there. But, he likes his friends and his teacher there and likes speaking to them on the phone. So the cultural thing does not work here. I tried that for Arabic, again it didn't work. But he likes the fact that it is hard and it is a different alphabet :)

[lllll]

nm

Edited April 20, 2016 by _ ?^..

[walkermamaof4]

Ds earns wii time by doing duolingo. Works for us.

[Shellydon]

We outsource.  She takes a class, I expect an A in it.