Do you think copywork instead of narrations would work well? (Alternatives to narration?)

[EKT]

Hi, friends! All right, I have two girls and they both use WWE (Level 1 and Level 2, respectively), so both my girls have to do narrations each day through that program. (I do skill work individually with each girl in the morning.) They both do their WWE narrations well and totally "get" the idea of remembering/identifying important info, summarizing, putting ideas into their own words, etc. My problem comes later in the day.... Because we do skill work (math and language arts) individually in the morning, I have to combine content areas (science, history, etc.) for the two of them or we would never make decent progress in the content areas (it's already a long day, just getting through the skill work). What I'm finding, though, is that when I read the history passage aloud to both of them, at this point in the day (the afternoon, by now), their narrations are wooden and they're just doing it to get through it and get away and be done. (To clarify, their content area narrations are all ORAL. I'll usually say, "Tell me one thing you remember from the passage" and they put that into a sentence that I copy down for them. I've been doing it because it produces a written piece--something I can present to the state.) So, even though they LOVE the history book we've read that day, they do the oral narration as quick as they can and the quality just isn't what I know they're capable of. They're just tired and "done" by that point. (They also often get disappointed or in little arguments, like, "[sister] just said what I was going to say in my narration!" and they get all upset because they feel like they're not being heard and all of a sudden school has become a competition about who gets to narrate first, etc. It's super counter-productive to my aims! 

 

So, I'm wondering, do you think it would be detrimental in any way to keep doing the WWE narrations and then do, say, a copywork passage from the history or science reading instead of trying to do them as narrations? I was thinking I could select the copywork passages from that day's reading ahead of time (different ones for each girl, appropriate to her writing ability). I've been doing the narrations in science and history in the first place because I need to produce written work in each subject for my state portfolio, but the girls are just hating these narrations at this point. So, I'm thinking copywork and maybe an illustration for content areas instead of a narration? 

 

I guess I'm just asking if you think WWE alone is "enough" narration each day? (I think narration is a really important skill, but doing more than one per day with each kid seems to be killing their love of the content areas, not to mention starting to damage our relationships when school becomes stressful and we all end the day frustrated and cranky.)

 

Long story short, I'd love your feedback and to hear if you do anything else that might replace an actual narration but still be written work in some form. Or any suggestions, really! Thanks in advance for taking the time to respond!

 

ETA: Sorry for all the edits; just trying to be clear. Thanks!

Edited March 18, 2016 by EKT

[birchbark]

I have not used WWE, so I don't know what its expectations are.

 

However, looking at the age of your kiddos, I would immediately say they are too young to be doing written narrations. I personally would wait until 4th grade for that. My almost-9yo is only doing copywork and dictation and oral narrations. And he also does what I call journaling, and is basically drawing an illustration of something we learned that day, similar to your idea.

 

I guess I'm just asking if you think WWE alone is "enough" narration each day? (I think narration is a really important skill, but doing more than one per day with each kid seems to be killing their love of the content areas, not to mention starting to damage our relationships when school becomes stressful and we all end the day frustrated and cranky.)

 

While I see great value in narrations, I don't like to do more than one a day. (That includes oral.) Some days we don't do any. The reason is that I've seen it do exactly what you described: make the kiddo hate even the content areas of school.

 

Another problem with narrations and other Charlotte Mason skills is that most people add them on TOP of other language arts work. I don't get the feeling that is how they were used originally by CM, and it certainly can make the schoolday overly burdensome. Ask me how I know. We currently use CM skills as a stand-alone LA program for elementary.

Edited March 18, 2016 by birchbark

[EKT]

I have not used WWE, so I don't know what its expectations are.

 

However, looking at the age of your kiddos, I would immediately say they are too young to be doing written narrations. I personally would wait until 4th grade for that. My almost-9yo is only doing copywork and dictation and oral narrations. And he also does what I call journaling, and is basically drawing an illustration of something we learned that day, similar to your idea.

 

 

While I see great value in narrations, I don't like to do more than one a day. (That includes oral.) Some days we don't do any. The reason is that I've seen it do exactly what you described: make the kiddo hate even the content areas of school.

 

Another problem with narrations and other Charlotte Mason skills is that most people add them on TOP of other language arts work. I don't get the feeling that is how they were used originally by CM, and it certainly can make the schoolday overly burdensome. Ask me how I know. We currently use CM skills as a stand-alone LA program for elementary.

 

Just to clarify, the narrations they do are oral! I just write down what they say. (I think I'm going to add that to my OP for clarity.) Thanks so much for your input. 

[Bluegoat]

I tend to agree with birchbark. No written narrations until grade four or even five. When we used WWE we found it took a lot of time and energy.

 

We also ended up using our content narrations for LA, and in many cases there were just some texts we did not narrate in any given day. Content narrations plus a separate LA is a lot, and it sounds like your day is already long.

[Bluegoat]

Oh I just saw your reply. I wonder if they are just tired? Is a shorter day an option? At that level I think it is also fine to read things like history just for fun.

[EKT]

Oh I just saw your reply. I wonder if they are just tired? Is a shorter day an option? At that level I think it is also fine to read things like history just for fun.

 

Thanks so much for chiming in! Honestly, I agree with you about reading aloud being enough for the content areas. My state requires "regular, thorough instruction in English, math, science, history, health, art, music, and phys ed." So, I feel like I have to provide "evidence" of learning in each content area in some written form, but I'm beginning to wonder if just providing a reading list would suffice. (For example, just a list of all the non-fiction illustrated history picture books we read that semester.) My girls are very academically inclined (both happened to learn to read young and almost effortlessly), so I'm trying to find that balance of where they are challenged, but challenged appropriately. TWTM suggests doing narrations in all the subjects, but I think it's definitely too much. (Just writing out my post, I was like, "Duh, that is asking way too much!" lol.) I agree that I need to find a way to condense somewhere, though. Thanks so much for your feedback; it's helping me to organize my thoughts!

[LindaOz]

Maybe you could have them draw a picture about what you read and then tell you about it.  The picture could be the evidence you need for the state and it wouldn't be a taxing for the girls.

 

OR

 

You could do an activity related to the reading (make a model, cook something, build something, my kids sometimes acted out sections from SOTW) and take photos that could be scrapbooked which could also be used as evidence.

 

Just some thoughts...:)

[desertflower]

I understand how you feel.  I was doing WWE 2 and 2 other narrations a week.  I felt like my ds was feeling the same way as your dds.  So, I adjusted andI went mainly with WWE.  However, if I didn't do WWE for that week, I would have him do an oral narration for history or science. 

 

So, I would go with your gut feeling.  You don't want this to be tedious for them.  Perhaps just doing oral narrations with WWE is enough for them.  That's what I'm going to go with and I hope my ds turns alright in the end.  ;) 

[PeterPan]

Back in the old days, haha, we picked how much narration or writing we wanted done, and we overlapped it with history, lit, whatever.  Now you've got this thick WWE tome and it's like OH, I HAVE TO GET THEM THROUGH THIS!!  Fine, whatever, must be really great.  Lots of kids got by without it.  

 

Personally, if you're in love with WWE, then I would find some more pizzazzy, collaborative, multi-modal way to go at your history notebooking.  It's pretty clear you've got some cat/competitive girl stuff going on, and collaboration would be a nice change from that. So I'd find a way they're working TOGETHER.  Like put a long piece of butcher paper on the wall and have them work together after the lesson and collaborate on something to draw and label.  They could take turns (today I draw and you write, tomorrow the reverse).  Or they could split the drawing (two characters, each with speech bubbles).  

 

It does not have to be a WRITTEN, stiff, boring narration, mercy.  Now that we have ipads, it would make a lot more sense to act out the scene with playmobil figures, take a picture, and put it as the next sequence in a video/powerpoint.  Schools are NOT just doing written work.  It's normal/expected now for them to be working on the computer, etc.  

 

 

[HomeAgain]

I like once a week narrations.  Pick one day for each subject, have them narrate, and call it good.  No need to do it every.single.time.