Vision Issues & Effects on Evals

[Joyful Journeys]

We're finally moved and settled and beginning the many evaluations that are to come for my oldest three kiddos. We are trying the school system first with my 8yo and almost 6yo, and so far they have been very accommodating. Our referral meeting is next week to get the ball rolling. 

 

With moving, we had to find a new COVD doc for my oldest and this one seems to be even more thorough than the first. We did not have a chance to begin VT before moving, and I'm somewhat grateful. She is going to run a NOVA test and Visagraph test next week before giving us a treatment plan. Her concerns are that with the way DD sees now (convergence insufficiency plus her eyes working so hard that she is nearing astigmatism and some other huge words I can't recall) the testing from the schools will be inaccurate. I've given DD the Barton pretest twice. The first time, 3 months ago she failed, the second, done yesterday under much more ideal conditions (all her siblings were away) and she passed. So I feel that since that screening required no reading, it is clear that there's more going on? She did have to focus on moving the tiles and such, but I imagine that's much easier than print. Her mistakes were in remembering what I said, though she always repeated the sounds correctly. 

 

I guess my question is this, should I wait until VT is done to do the evals? I know the school has 120 days but they seem to be really on the ball as far as moving the process along. Our first meeting is just a week after I got all the forms in so I'm thinking that we will be right in the middle of VT once she gets evaluated. Our new ped we'll see next week too has psychologists on staff and it would hopefully be easy to later repeat any testing after VT is totally done if need be. I'm just trying to keep cost under control a bit and have more support from DH going through the school first. I feel like we're at a standstill until this is sorted out, it's been such a long year. 

[PeterPan]

Get the school testing done and don't delay. 

[Storygirl]

I think I would do the school testing first and delay the VT. The schools will be shutting down soon for the summer, so it's better to get that done now. (Yes, legally they still have to follow the 120 day rule over the summer, but it is much harder for them to do it, due to staffing levels).

 

I'm glad your school seems eager to get things going.

 

[Joyful Journeys]

Wow I would have never thought to put that off, everyone says vision checks first it seems? So her vision issue would not skew the results at all?

[Storygirl]

I don't know much about VT, because my kids haven't need it. But to be honest, I think it's okay to get a baseline of test results that show what the real functioning is before remediation begins. Others may disagree.

 

Are you homeschooling? Will your school district write an IEP or just do the evaluations?

[Tiramisu]

The two of mine who have been through testing probably had somewhat lower IQs because of their vision issues. For both of them, all the subtests which relied on vision were significantly lower than other subtests. 

 

However, their vision quirks don't really seem to have affected their achievement tests too much. I only say this because they tend to do better on achievement tests than their IQ tests would predict, and that included the SAT for my dd who is in college. That of course will be different for every kid, though.

 

Having the VT first can help sort out an impact of a visual issue, but if the person who is doing the testing for the school knows what they are doing, hopefully they should be able to figure out if a visual issue is causing problems just by seeing what subtest scores are lower.

 

The other thing is that if the testing you are seeking is for interventions and accommodations, I almost think it would be preferable to get the testing before VT.

Edited March 16, 2016 by Tiramisu

[Joyful Journeys]

Oh that is great to know that the person giving the test could see the difference and the effect on achievement tests.

 

We homeschool now and will indefinitely so I'm not really concerned with accommodations right now, more so just to know exactly what I'm up against and if it's outside of what I can do alone.

[Tiramisu]

Oh that is great to know that the person giving the test could see the difference and the effect on achievement tests.

 

We homeschool now and will indefinitely so I'm not really concerned with accommodations right now, more so just to know exactly what I'm up against and if it's outside of what I can do alone.

 

I think you should be clear about the visual issues and ask specifically for the evaluator to gauge their effects.

 

The first time we did testing with my oldest vision was definitely not on my radar. The evaluator was an educational psychologist and never mentioned it. I was people here who pointed out the low scores were visual based tests. The np also picked up on the same thing when I showed that report to her before she tested dd years later.

 

When I had a younger dd evaluated by an np last year. I specifically brought up my vision questions. And she investigated them carefully, I think.

 

So I would make sure you are clear about the vision issues and tell them you need to know how they impact things on paper and in real life.

[PeterPan]

Furthermore, developmental vision isn't even really something on the school radar.  Some schools are a real pain in the butt to work with.  As long as the kid has anything prescribed (glasses, contacts, thyroid meds, food and water), I'd get the testing done.  Don't give them excuse not to do it.  

 

And yes, that's the reasoning, that they won't get it done during the summer and you NEED the results so you can make sure you're on track.  You do realize that by the time you make the formal written request, wait 30 days for them to meet with you, sign the consent to eval, wait another 30+ days for them to get around to scheduling you, you'll have 2-3 months of VT under your belts, yes?  You could literally start now and be half way done by the time they get to the testing.  That's what I would do.  But I'm just saying, VT is kind of alternative in the realm of things.  It's essential, but it's not on the list of things the school is required to do.  Don't give them some excuse to delay.  Otherwise you'll be looking at Christmas before your evals are done.

 

(Ask me how I know.  We're doing our 2nd ETR.  I've spent the better part of two school years now working with this system, ugh.)

Edited March 16, 2016 by OhElizabeth

[PeterPan]

Adding, the REASON the VT doc would say to wait *might* be partly from the reality that *some* kids will test *slightly* better on things using vision with the VT in place, sure.  *More* likely it's that she, like our (otherwise perfectly fine) VT holds to some "dyslexia is vision problems" crap.

 

Please move on from that. The school will diagnose SLD Reading if there's enough discrepancy between IQ and achievement that they would be required to intervene.  They aren't actually trying to answer your question (is it dyslexia) but rather is there SO much discrepancy that they would have to intervene.  That's a huge difference there.  Also they can, within the rules of the law, require RTI.  Now they're *supposed* to do RTI *within* the 120 timeframe for the IEP, but some skills will deny your request for evals outright.  They might say they want RTI first or some evidence of RTI to indicate it's not due to lack of instruction.  They have the legal right to require this.

 

This means you're not *guaranteed* to get the evals immediately and might have more hassle and more hoops than you anticipate.  When we began our process, I provided evidence of something equivalent to RTI in an effort to prove that in fact it was disability, not lack of instruction.

 

But maybe your process will be easy.   :)  I'm just saying it's a pile of good reasons not to delay on making the request.   :)

Edited March 16, 2016 by OhElizabeth

[Joyful Journeys]

Adding, the REASON the VT doc would say to wait *might* be partly from the reality that *some* kids will test *slightly* better on things using vision with the VT in place, sure. *More* likely it's that she, like our (otherwise perfectly fine) VT holds to some "dyslexia is vision problems" crap.

 

Please move on from that. The school will diagnose SLD Reading if there's enough discrepancy between IQ and achievement that they would be required to intervene. They aren't actually trying to answer your question (is it dyslexia) but rather is there SO much discrepancy that they would have to intervene. That's a huge difference there. Also they can, within the rules of the law, require RTI. Now they're *supposed* to do RTI *within* the 120 timeframe for the IEP, but some skills will deny your request for evals outright. They might say they want RTI first or some evidence of RTI to indicate it's not due to lack of instruction. They have the legal right to require this.

 

This means you're not *guaranteed* to get the evals immediately and might have more hassle and more hoops than you anticipate. When we began our process, I provided evidence of something equivalent to RTI in an effort to prove that in fact it was disability, not lack of instruction.

 

But maybe your process will be easy. :) I'm just saying it's a pile of good reasons not to delay on making the request. :)

Ah, hadn't thought of "dyslexia being a vision problem" as her reasoning. I had read before things like ADD being slapped on kids that are actually vision related, and it seems plausible that a written exam could trip her up more if just focusing on the words is hard enough.

 

I do see the difference in the question I'm wanting answered and what they will give. I'm operating on next to zero spousal support so I'm just going this route to get something, anything, on paper to show him I'm not a crazy hypochondriac or its some lack of instruction in my part.

 

Forgive me, I'm not sure what RTI is?

[PeterPan]

RTI=response to instruction.  It will often be some kind of stepped up instruction or pull-out they do.  Some schools will use it to delay the IEP process or even to blur the diagnosis.  I know someone who got months of OG as RTI, and then the school denied the diagnosis saying the scores had gone up.  And I'm thinking I HOPE they did.   :lol:

 

ADHD is a controversial diagnosis.  The churches I grew up in say ADHD is a parenting problem, that kids don't try hard enough, and that if our kids wanted to obey the Scriptures and attend better and try harder they would.  So fine, they call our kids bad.  I don't think my kids are perfect.   ;)  But I'm not dumb enough to say nothing is happening and to deny the challenges of compliant kids who WANT to do what's right and are struggling.

 

And I say all that to say that I think you can't really conclude a lot from stories online.  Someone subjectively says oh my kid got diagnosed ADHD and when he did VT all that went away.  Fine.  But the truth is most VT includes EF (executive function) work and that is what was giving the bump.  And I agree vision problems cause all sorts of school problems.  But I *don't* think it's so easy to quantify from anecdotes whether that ADHD was "gone" or merely improved.   ;)  The MRI evidence now is that even adults who say they "outgrew" their ADHD have IDENTICAL brain scans as their ADHD-diagnosable peers.  Still ADHD.  Ditto for ASD btw.  People will say they cured their kid's ASD.  I'm happy for you.  My ds is diagnosed ASD.  We already eat organic, wheat free, blah blah blah blah.  Maybe that's why people are like are you sure?? sometimes about my ds and I'm like YES we're sure...  Because the brain scans on those kids are the still ASD brain scans.  

 

Now interestingly, VT *does* increase wiring and connectivity in parts of the brain.  So does the PROMPT speech therapy my ds receives.  These MRIs are cool stuff with the things they're learning!  So sure, VT will change stuff.  My dd did VT and it was life-changing.  But to say did VT, no longer ADHD.  I say you better ask for some MRIs.  Otherwise you're just anecdotal.  I'm glad for the person's improvement.  More likely, you'll still need evals and still have more things going on if those things were there before.

Edited March 16, 2016 by OhElizabeth

[Joyful Journeys]

I hear ya. We'll just carry on as planned doing everything at the same time. Thanks everyone!

[amo_mea_filiis.]

120 days?!?! IDEA 2004 days 60 calendar days. Where do you live? 120, the school year is essentially over.

[PeterPan]

No, 120 days from date of formal, written request.  Four months.  And yes, it takes a long time.  Right now the schools are going into their crazy busy season for evals.  Only people who are squeaky wheels actually get things done on time.

[Joyful Journeys]

120 days?!?! IDEA 2004 days 60 calendar days. Where do you live? 120, the school year is essentially over.

 

I'm in North Carolina. Actually, the Special Ed Coordinator told me 90 days IIRC start to finish, so here's hoping that is accurate. I'm going through preschool services too for my 3 yr old son, and they are shooting for an eval within 30 days. 

[Storygirl]

Here is where the 120 days comes from:

 

30 days for the school to decide if they will evaluate after reviewing an official request (They can say no if they don't see evidence of possible disability, and they pretty much get to decide what they consider to be valid evidence).

 

60 days for the school to conduct the evaluations and compile an Evaluation Team Report (ETR). The ETR will say whether the school has determined if there is a learning disability (or other condition impacting the ability to receive an education), and whether the student qualifies for an IEP or not.

 

30 days for the school to write the IEP (if one is warranted).

 

So, the school can take a total of 120 days to get the point of a completed IEP under federal law (IDEA). State laws can tighten up those deadlines and make them shorter, but state law cannot disregard the federal law.

 

In reality, there are loopholes that a school might utilize in order to not provide an IEP within that time frame. We submitted our written request for evaluations at the end of last July and today (today!) the IEPs were finalized. 7 months.

 

Our story: The school got around the usual deadlines by denying our request for evaluations at that first 30 day meeting, based on no evidence of disability -- though we presented them with a pile of documented diagnoses. They made my kids go through the first quarter of the school year to obtain "classroom data" from the teachers before agreeing to evaluated. This is the way that the school here handles previously homeschooled kids who are enrolling for the first time (actually, they said they were expediting their usual process for us, due to the fact that the kids already had LD diagnoses -- they usually make homeschoolers do an entire semester of school before agreeing to evaluate).

 

Our story is just an example of how schools can really mess around with the time frame but still technically follow the law. I'm sure schools all have their own version of various delay tactics that they can employ when they desire. That's why if you have a school that is friendly to evaluating homeschoolers and is not delaying, take advantage of it!!

 

OP, your district sounds like they want to be helpful. That is good!

[Joyful Journeys]

Oh that is awful!! They made us enroll them as visiting students so they would get an ID number to keep everything organized. I cannot imagine making them go to school..that would be flat out cruel to my oldest 😩 I pray they continue to be as helpful as they have been so far! I think she took off the last 30 days because since I will not be enrolling the full time, they will not get an IEP?

[Storygirl]

Actually, they didn't require them to go to school. We were enrolling them in school and asking for IEPs at the same time (at the beginning of the school year). This was their policy for enrolled students who had been homeschooled previously. Sorry if I was unclear before.

 

Yes, if they will not be writing IEPs, your process would end with getting the ETR.

[Joyful Journeys]

Oh I understand! What nonsense though indeed, seven months is incredible.

[PeterPan]

Our state does a "soft enroll" to create the unique student ID.  It's just for that, not really enrolling them or changing their legal status.