knitgrl Posted March 15, 2016 Posted March 15, 2016 Yes, I know I am probably poking a hornet's nest with this question. :) This is our first official year of homeschooling, closely following TWTM. Since August, I have made a few alterations for our 6 year old. Most things come fairly easy for her, but she really does not like writing. Writing words out for spelling can be a chore. We got through Spelling Workout A, and she had absolutely no interest in any exercises that had to do with writing sentences or poems. As frequently as not, she does a slap dash job of any writing assignments, though when she tries, her handwriting is quite neat. Looking ahead for next year (2nd grade), I am trying to figure out if we should continue with WWE. We dropped FLL and switched to Shurley English, which seems to be working well enough, so she will be getting instruction on parts of speech and so forth. She will be writing out her narrations next year, so she will have plenty of practice writing. She does narrations on the novels and stories I read aloud to her, so she is getting exposure to quality writing. I'm thinking of either dropping WWE altogether or just doing it twice a week next year. Everyone seems to love copywork, but I am having second thoughts about it. It seems there are better ways to use our time. Please enlighten me if there is something I am missing about the benefits of copywork. Quote
8filltheheart Posted March 15, 2016 Posted March 15, 2016 It all depends on what the purpose of the copywork actually is. Copywork is a vital part of how my kids learn writing skills. Copywork is used for instruction on punctuation, grammar, sentence construction, paragraph construction (topic sentences and supporting details), etc. Many yrs ago I typed out a long reply on how I teach my kids when they are little. This is part of that 2 sequence reply. (Here is the link if you want to read the rest. http://forums.welltrainedmind.com/topic/239259-bringing-karens-mention-of-essay-writing-to-a-new-thread/?p=2363522 At some point after my kids are reading confidently and are ready to move beyond copying simple sentences for letter practice, I start using their copywork as a teaching tool. The key here is that the children don’t have to focus on sounding out words or on letter formation. If they have not mastered those 2 skills, they need to work on those before you progress. My approach is that it is expecting too much for children to learn anything from reading/writing until they no longer have to focus on the reading itself.I begin by selecting copywork that is very basic and we focus on mechanics (capitalization, punctuation) and grammar. Then we play with the structure of the copywork. For example, The dog ran. I teach subject, verb, as well as capitalization and punctuation. Then we spend time coming up with parallel sentence structures and identify the parts of speech.The baby crawled.The cat climbed.The pig snorted.Once that concept is mastered, I add in another part of speech for focus….adjectives or adverbs, for example. (I don’t have any set pattern….basically, it is whatever I am in the mood for. ïŠ ) The baby crawled quickly.The cat climbed high.The pig snorted loudly.After mastery, I add other parts of speech. (I do not use the same base sentences with my kids. I am only doing that for the sake of illustrating my point. I don’t want them to learn the parts of speech from memorization, but from context.) The chunky baby crawled quickly. (I would not use that as an example unless they were struggling and we needed to go back for a refresher. I would actually use a unique sentence…..The rambunctious child twirled rapidly.)I continue this process adding more and more parts of speech: possessives, direct objects, indirect objects, and pronouns.Julie’s baby wanted more food. Henry threw the Frisbee.Henry threw Jack the Frisbee.He threw him the Frisbee.I work with them to come up with about 10-15 similarly structured sentences.We work on this for about 10-15 minutes a day until they master the concept. Some concepts they master quickly (subject + action verb). They may do it in a day or a week. Some may take longer. Just work where they are. After they have conquered the basic parts of speech, I assign copywork from their reading, our read alouds, or some other source. We take these sentences (eventually progressing to paragraphs) and study them. I ask them to identify all the nouns, verbs, etc. Can they identify the function of the nouns? Some they will already know (subject, DO, etc….some they won’t: appositives, complements, obj. of prep. etc) We don’t worry about the words they haven’t studied yet. We just focus on the ones they do. Gradually we start incorporating more and more complex grammar. For example, this was my 2nd graders copywork today: (From the Family Under the Bridge….. Nikki raced down the narrow streets and shouted insults at pedestrians and cars that got in his way. His own car sputtered and rattled and clanked as if it would fall apart any moment. But it didn’t.My daughter had no trouble identifying any of the parts of speech except for that and as if.Learning them in the context of their work makes grammar, mechanics, and writing all connected and not isolated concepts that don’t have intertwined applications.Paragraphs for copywork: We start analyzing paragraph structure from copywork in the same way we began our study of grammar. We discuss what the paragraph is describing. What is the main idea? What do we learn about the main idea? From that, they learn about topic sentences and supporting details. We do this for weeks!We play games with paragraphs. I print up logically ordered paragraphs that I have typed into individual lines and cut them apart. I mix them up and they have to unscramble the sentences and put the paragraph back together correctly. This is an enormous skill to master. It means they understand topic sentence and logical sequencing. We continue working on this until they are able to do it fairly easily. (Some paragraphs are easier than others….how-tos are the easiest, descriptives are harder, etc. Gradually increase the difficulty level. The key is to let them experience success while still learning. After basic paragraph reconstruction is mastered, I start to add a twist….I will add “misfit†sentences into the mix. For example, if the paragraph is about a bear stealing a cake from a camper’s picnic table, I might add a sentence like, “I love to eat cake.†This skill helps them learn to focus on the topic sentence and make sure the information belongs. This is an essential writing skill that is really better developed in the pre-writing skill phase. If they can identify misfit sentences in other people’s paragraphs, it makes it easier to help them find them in their own. Using the early grades to focus on developing pre-writing skills enables children to move into the writing stage with the tools they need in order to progress with confidence. You wouldn’t give a child a bunch of word problems in math to complete without giving them a foundation in basic arithmetic. Writing is similar. You shouldn’t expect them to start writing independently without understanding the fundamentals of how writing is structured. 6 Quote
Farrar Posted March 15, 2016 Posted March 15, 2016 I was not a copywork believer when we started homeschooling and I got turned around on it just by seeing how it helped my kids. There are other ways to approach copywork and dictation than the WWE way. You might try making shorter copywork less often and see how it goes. We do copywork (dictations now mostly) almost exclusively from whatever we're reading at the moment. I like that better - it lets us tie in with thinking about the writing in what we're reading. Copywork is a great tool... but I'm sure no one tool is for every child. My kids definitely weren't ready for full written narrations at that age, so maybe she's doing fine without it. Quote
8filltheheart Posted March 15, 2016 Posted March 15, 2016 Confession.....in 22+ years of homeschooling, my kids have never done a written narration. :leaving: 7 Quote
knitgrl Posted March 15, 2016 Author Posted March 15, 2016 Thank you for the helpful suggestions, as well as the assurance that even if we don't do copywork, our daughter can still receive a good education. I love the idea of cutting up a paragraph and having them put it back together, although I don't think we're ready for that just yet. I also like the idea of tying it in with whatever the current read aloud is. It seems that a workable solution would be to continue with the Shurley English (because I have not given any particular thought to grammar in many years), and then do copywork from something we're reading to integrate those skills into other subjects. The only thing is that it will take more planning than just printing out the WWE worksheet. :-/ Quote
journey00 Posted March 16, 2016 Posted March 16, 2016 (edited) Confession.....in 22+ years of homeschooling, my kids have never done a written narration. :leaving: Woah! As in no kind of structured essay or book report? Can you define "written narration" for me? If that is so then you have given me a glimpse of hope that I'm doing ok and not ruining my kids. Lol. They have only done copywork, journaling, cursive, and (on their own) free writing. Thanks. :) OP: My kids are pretty good spellers because of copywork and lots of reading. We have never been successful with spelling book..too boring & tedious. Edited March 16, 2016 by journey00 Quote
8filltheheart Posted March 16, 2016 Posted March 16, 2016 Woah! As in no kind of structured essay or book report? Can you define "written narration" for me? If that is so then you have given me a glimpse of hope that I'm doing ok and not ruining my kids. Lol. They have only done copywork, journaling, cursive, and (on their own) free writing. Thanks. :) OP: My kids are pretty good spellers because of copywork and lots of reading. We have never been successful with spelling book..too boring & tedious. as As in a written summation of what they have read. We don't do formal oral narrations, either. We just talk about things. But, no, they have never written book reports. (But, I am also not a fan of journaling or free writing for writing, either. ;) ) 1 Quote
Bluegoat Posted March 16, 2016 Posted March 16, 2016 Copywork has been important for us. However, we did not have much luck with WWE when we tried it for grade 3 - it was still too much writing - the selections were too long, especially the dictations - for my daughter. And she found the writing very boring. So - it could be more that the programs are not a great fit, or it could be they are asking to much. I tend to use a CM approach and find the classical approach to writing asks for a little too much too soon. With my two girls, I've found that the best thing with copywork is to be very, very slow. My oldest really picked up in her school ability in grade 4. My second child who is in grade two this year is even slower with copywork because if she is given much, she will rush and be very sloppy - to keep her focus and letter formation, it has to be very short. (However, unlike dd11, dd8 does quite a lot of writing on her own - but there are no rules for neatness for that and her own projects seem to keep her focused more.) Thinking about it, a fair bit of dd8's "neat" practice ends up being her music theory because her teacher is very particular and somehow his opinion carries more weight than mine. That is ok with me though, it still counts as writing practice and I don't have to be the bad guy. Quote
SparklyUnicorn Posted March 16, 2016 Posted March 16, 2016 I did copywork with my kids when they were younger, but I did have to adjust to meet them halfway. They both hated doing too much writing. I used WWE and just didn't have them copy everything or I'd shorten the dictations. Hard to say if it was beneficial (certainly it did not hurt). Quote
knitgrl Posted March 16, 2016 Author Posted March 16, 2016 With my two girls, I've found that the best thing with copywork is to be very, very slow. My oldest really picked up in her school ability in grade 4. My second child who is in grade two this year is even slower with copywork because if she is given much, she will rush and be very sloppy - to keep her focus and letter formation, it has to be very short. (However, unlike dd11, dd8 does quite a lot of writing on her own - but there are no rules for neatness for that and her own projects seem to keep her focused more.) It is nice to have a little perspective -- things could be different in a few years. The distaste for writing worries me a little, as I feel writing is an essential skill. I went to a small college where all classes were disguised as writing classes, and the guiding principle was that if one could write well, then one could think well. The writing expectations in Shurley English Level 1 are insane, so I skip those entirely. It would be nice if I could find her something to write that she finds enjoyable. She has written a few letters to cousins which seems to be a mostly enjoyable activity. Finishing it off with a dozen stickers seems to help. She writes a sentence a day and it gets mailed off about a week later, so that is something. 2 Quote
HS Mom in NC Posted March 16, 2016 Posted March 16, 2016 Copywork? YES! You can choose any copywork you like, it doesn't have to be a specific curriculum. Your child doesn't need more than one copywork assignment, so if you can pull from whatever you're reading in any subject and do copywork. Mine isn't a kid who enjoys writing at all. I'm fine with her having to do something she doesn't like because what she's doing is an important skill set. Some kids don't like math-do it anyway. Some kids don't like spelling-do it anyway. Some kids don't like reading-do it anyway. I had a kid who screamed yelled, cried, argued, whined, stomped and slammed doors because she hated formal logic in high school. Guess which of my kids wrote a public thank you to me on facebook into her first semester in college thanking me for forcing her to do it anyway because it was such a useful skill? Yeah. That kid. Hang in there. 3 Quote
Bluegoat Posted March 16, 2016 Posted March 16, 2016 It is nice to have a little perspective -- things could be different in a few years. The distaste for writing worries me a little, as I feel writing is an essential skill. I went to a small college where all classes were disguised as writing classes, and the guiding principle was that if one could write well, then one could think well. The writing expectations in Shurley English Level 1 are insane, so I skip those entirely. It would be nice if I could find her something to write that she finds enjoyable. She has written a few letters to cousins which seems to be a mostly enjoyable activity. Finishing it off with a dozen stickers seems to help. She writes a sentence a day and it gets mailed off about a week later, so that is something. I think that a sentence a day might be plenty at that age - I've spoken to quite a few people who found that was about the right level in lower elementary. I don't think that distaste for writing at that age is very similar to distaste later on - I think they come from different causes. In younger years, I think it is often because the mechanics of writing are still really challenging for them - the fine motor control is just hard. Because of that, it isn't really a very good way for them to express themselves, and they are limited by both hand skills and focus. I think that what we think of as "writing" is, in lower elementary, best done orally. That is, listening to good writing, and narrating. Someone who can tell a story or informationin a logical and elegant way will still have that skill when they can put it together with fluent penmanship. I was surprised in how complete the grade 4 jump was for my dd. Even things like math facts, which I had despaired of, suddenly came much more easily. I've realized she is very much a whole to parts learner, so my thought is that it was at that point that she had enough perspective to start fitting the individual pieces into. 4 Quote
MerryAtHope Posted March 16, 2016 Posted March 16, 2016 I think copywork can be a great tool, but at a pace that's right for the student. Copying words when the student doesn't understand how the phonics work in those words can even be detrimental for some kids (and for many it won't be a fruitful exercise). I think it's important to understand more about the level of copywork that WOULD be beneficial for an individual child, as well as defining your goals for that copywork (and making sure those goals are appropriate). Here are two blog posts I've written, with more explanation: Copywork and Dictation Part 1: Teaching Mechanics Copywork and Dictation Part 2: Teaching Literary Elements For a 6 year-old, I like to focus first on learning to read and handwriting. Copywork should be really basic at this stage and should mainly reinforce handwriting. When they are ready, add on some basic spelling, and gradually build skills from there. Quote
jennyof11 Posted March 16, 2016 Posted March 16, 2016 I think K-4, the greatest benefit is penmanship, beginning capitalization and punctuation, and basic sentence/paragraph structure. From 5th grade up, it becomes a way to present excellent samples of writing, whether poetry or essays or speeches, etc, for the student to emulate and internalize as they copy. 1 Quote
FO4UR Posted March 16, 2016 Posted March 16, 2016 (edited) Keep the copywork. Put off written narrations until she's at least 4th grade (10yo even if she's accelerating in everything else). Keep ramping up the *oral* narrations from now until then. Now, if she just starts writing our narrations on her own, of her own free will, then by all means let her. In not, keep the focus on copywork. The goal is to build up the habit of copying up through the older elementary years until she is capable of keeping a Book of Commonplace, or a book where she copies down quotes and such that she finds valuable. Until then, YOU choose quotes and such that are valuable. I would maybe pull back writing in other subjects, but do not take away the copywork. (Spelling city is enough spelling for a child with no LD.) Stage 1: Copywork & Oral Narrations Stage 2: (Cover with a piece of paper and peek as needed) Copywork and Oral Narrations (copy a narration from the teacher's scribing once a week). Stage 3: Book of Commonplace, Studied Dictations, Written Narrations Kids don't always go through those stages in a neat and grade level fashion. That's OK. (It makes WWE difficult to follow, but...) Just keep moving forward. Each time you move forward through the stages, pull the number of words back. Ex. Copy 6 word sentences, work up to several lines in a paragraph. Cover & copy 6 word sentences, work up to several lines in a paragraph. When you start dictations, pull it back to 6 word sentences, and work back up to paragraphs. Once a child is keeping a Book of Commonplace, I don't count words in that at all. It is theirs. The purpose is found in the ideas to ponder. Some significant ideas are expressed in short phrases. Oh, and those things that the kids push hardest against are often *exactly* where they need the most help. You might need to consider doing less work daily, but every.single.day, and don't ramp up until this level of work seems easy. I know it sounds like a lot of work to pull your own copywork, but it is 1000000x easier to pull copywork than it is to try and pull them through a curriculum that doesn't fit. I have some materials made that might help. The Aesop and the Treadwell Companions both have plenty of copywork. There are countless other resources available as well. When my 6-9yo's copy poetry, we stay on one poem for a week or two. They memorize the poem and copy however many lines that I assign for any given day. They do not copy the whole thing in one day. (Well...when dd10 was little she did, but that wasn't assigned. She was just born with a pencil in her hand...the other kids...1-4 lines per day.) Edited March 16, 2016 by 4blessingmom 2 Quote
Kfamily Posted March 16, 2016 Posted March 16, 2016 (edited) Just as an alternative to copywork.... I let both girls transition to a copybook as soon as I felt they were comfortable writers (can write several sentences without hardship). Both of my girls seem to enjoy the act of copying something when it had a particular significance to them. Copybooks are a middle ground between copywork and commonplace books for older students. For us, copywork was a sentence or more that was chosen by me. I usually set it up with program that allowed me to type it in Italics, which is what we use for handwriting. A copybook, for younger elementary students, is a composition book where the top half is blank and the bottom half of each page is lined. The blank top is for illustrations. I let my daughters choose from their own books for that year (so literature, history, geography, science, poetry and independent reading books) any selection that they found interesting or beautiful. I would keep an eye on their selections and make sure to see that they kept a variety of subjects and book titles. Sometimes, if they chose a longer passage, I would let them break up the copying of it into multiple sessions. My main requirements were that they must write in their nicest handwriting and must include the book title and date for each entry. Once in the upper years, they transition into a commonplace book. They now both have a lovely copybook filled with quotes and passages from favorite books of their childhood. The illustrations also act as a form of narration as well. Edited March 16, 2016 by Kfamily 4 Quote
knitgrl Posted March 17, 2016 Author Posted March 17, 2016 I think copywork can be a great tool, but at a pace that's right for the student. Copying words when the student doesn't understand how the phonics work in those words can even be detrimental for some kids (and for many it won't be a fruitful exercise). I think it's important to understand more about the level of copywork that WOULD be beneficial for an individual child, as well as defining your goals for that copywork (and making sure those goals are appropriate). Here are two blog posts I've written, with more explanation: Copywork and Dictation Part 1: Teaching Mechanics Copywork and Dictation Part 2: Teaching Literary Elements For a 6 year-old, I like to focus first on learning to read and handwriting. Copywork should be really basic at this stage and should mainly reinforce handwriting. When they are ready, add on some basic spelling, and gradually build skills from there. Your blog posts were helpful - thanks for the links! What you said about about not understanding the phonics might have something to do with her distaste for writing in general. She reads fairly well (her favorite series right now is Geronimo Stilton), but when she comes across words she doesn't know, she will guess at them a few times and only if I prod her will she sound them out. I think of her as "gulping" words when she reads. We got through Spelling Workout A, but I didn't really think she was getting it, even though she did well enough on most tests I gave her. Outside of spelling tests, her spelling can be atrocious, even on words she tested well on. I have since purchased All About Spelling and we are starting with Level 1. (Did I see a post of yours on their website?) At any rate, this foray into the forum has taught me is that I still have a great deal to learn as a teacher. 1 Quote
knitgrl Posted March 17, 2016 Author Posted March 17, 2016 The goal is to build up the habit of copying up through the older elementary years until she is capable of keeping a Book of Commonplace, or a book where she copies down quotes and such that she finds valuable. Until then, YOU choose quotes and such that are valuable. I have never heard of a Book of Commonplace. It's an intriguing idea. Maybe just putting copywork into a book form might make it seem more special and less of a drag. I am still surprised at times of how she can find a really simple game or a slight twist on something to be completely novel and entertaining. 1 Quote
pehp Posted March 17, 2016 Posted March 17, 2016 Maybe she is just doing too much writing in general? I can't advise re: how much is happening w/ your grammar program & spelling, but maybe she is just overwhelmed. My advice would be to do copywork once or twice a week, on a day when she has almost no other writing happening, and let her pick ONE sentence, or ONE line of a poem, and copy that. We keep our copywork very short and sweet, and back when my son was 6, I think it mostly just consisted of a word or two at a time, to learn the skill and to work on handwriting. In second grade (age 7) we ramped it up to a sentence at a time, and collected those into a booklet (so fun to read through it now!). My hunch is that she's just doing too much, and scaling things back across the board would have positive results down the road. Quote
FO4UR Posted March 17, 2016 Posted March 17, 2016 I have never heard of a Book of Commonplace. It's an intriguing idea. Maybe just putting copywork into a book form might make it seem more special and less of a drag. I am still surprised at times of how she can find a really simple game or a slight twist on something to be completely novel and entertaining. Most start the Book of Commonplace in middle school. Right now, it's copywork that you pull. Kfamily's approach with copybooks (copywork with illustrations) is a great idea. My dd10 used to copy out of her favorite storybooks for fun. She'd try to copy the illustrations too. Her work was just on random pieces of paper, and I've kept a selection, but she would have loved to have had one of those notebooks with blank space at the top and writing lines at the bottom. One of my boys loves to draw, and I would have to make him copy first and THEN he could draw. Otherwise, he'd spend an hour drawing and then his hand would be tired. :huh: Beware the draw towards catering too much with the novel and entertaining. At some point, school is school (which is a tough transition for ME b/c I love the novel and fun as much as they do). It is part of her education to learn to do something we don't very much wish to be doing for 10-15 minutes at a time. 6 yo is the age to make that transition. 15min copywork, read a book to her, 15min math, go on a nature hunt, 15min reading/decoding lesson, lunch... 15 minutes of diligent work and then shift gears, see-saw between taxing and delightful work, and maintain that routine daily. It's better for a young child to work 2 hours every morning rather than 4+ hours only 4 days per week. (Older kids can handle longer days...) If her day is going longer than 2 hours total, or more than 20min on any one lesson, that would be the first issue to fix. Quote
Hobbes Posted March 17, 2016 Posted March 17, 2016 I had a kid who screamed yelled, cried, argued, whined, stomped and slammed doors because she hated formal logic in high school. Guess which of my kids wrote a public thank you to me on facebook into her first semester in college thanking me for forcing her to do it anyway because it was such a useful skill? Yeah. That kid. Hang in there. I may need to print out this paragraph and glue it into the cover of my homeschool planning notebook to remind me to have the courage of my convictions in the face of student resistance. ;) What did you use for logic? Quote
importswim Posted March 17, 2016 Posted March 17, 2016 I have my almost 11 year old (next week!) copy work out of Streams of Civilization every day. He LOVES history but loathes writing and so this is a compromise for both of us. I like the fact that he's practicing his penmanship, which is slowly improving from atrocious to legible :laugh: and he likes the fact that he doesn't have to come up with something to write. I have found that he remembers a lot of history this way and is always talking about the things that he's copied. Win/Win in my book. Quote
redsquirrel Posted March 17, 2016 Posted March 17, 2016 (edited) Yes, I know I am probably poking a hornet's nest with this question. :) This is our first official year of homeschooling, closely following TWTM. Since August, I have made a few alterations for our 6 year old. Most things come fairly easy for her, but she really does not like writing. Writing words out for spelling can be a chore. We got through Spelling Workout A, and she had absolutely no interest in any exercises that had to do with writing sentences or poems. As frequently as not, she does a slap dash job of any writing assignments, though when she tries, her handwriting is quite neat. Looking ahead for next year (2nd grade), I am trying to figure out if we should continue with WWE. We dropped FLL and switched to Shurley English, which seems to be working well enough, so she will be getting instruction on parts of speech and so forth. She will be writing out her narrations next year, so she will have plenty of practice writing. She does narrations on the novels and stories I read aloud to her, so she is getting exposure to quality writing. I'm thinking of either dropping WWE altogether or just doing it twice a week next year. Everyone seems to love copywork, but I am having second thoughts about it. It seems there are better ways to use our time. Please enlighten me if there is something I am missing about the benefits of copywork. I do think that copywork and narration are extremely helpful and prepare a kid to be a good writer. However, she is only a first grader. She might be too young, especially if she is doing a spelling program. My kids also did not like writing in first grade. I used FLL grammar in years 1&2, but used WWE a year 'behind'. I also skipped spelling until third grade. Like you I felt like they had better things to do in those early years. But, I also found copywork, dictation and narration to be invaluable tools. My older boy did: FLL 1-4, R&S 5-8 in years 1-8 Spelling workout 3-6 (C-F?) in years 3-6 followed by word study in years 7&8 WWE 1-4 in grades 2-5 and WWS in grades 6-8 My younger boys is using: FLL 1-4 in years 1-4 and is currently in year 5 and using R&S 5 WWE 1-3 in grades 2-4, and is currently using WWS 1 in grade 5. He is taking Expository Writing 1 at WTA. Spelling has been R&S 4-5 and we will continue through 6th and then switch to word study. ETA: I also modified FLL in terms of the writing. In years 1&2, we never did the 'enrichment' if it meant copywork or writing. I think we skipped those altogether, lol. And in FLL 3&4, I frequently didn't make them write out all those sentences. I might say that the child could write one and I would write one, or he could write 2 out of 6 and do 4 orally etc. We use R&S grammar now, but we do it almost completely orally. I do have them diagram a couple of sentences if it is offered in a lesson and we do the occasional worksheet, but mostly we do it orally. Edited March 17, 2016 by redsquirrel Quote
Bluegoat Posted March 17, 2016 Posted March 17, 2016 (edited) With spelling - So far I've had more luck pushing spelling back until reading is fluent and writing is mechanically not too difficult. That is really one reason I like copywork - they aren't "practicing" bad spelling even if they cannot yet spell. I started spelling with dd11 in grade 4 and will do it with dd8 next year for grade 3. Edited March 17, 2016 by Bluegoat 2 Quote
FO4UR Posted March 17, 2016 Posted March 17, 2016 With spelling - So far I've had more luck pushing spelling back until reading is fluent and writing is mechanically not to difficult. That is realy one reason I like copywork - they aren't "practicing" bad spelling even if they cannot yet spell. I started spelling with dd11 in grade 4 and will do it with dd8 next year for grade 3. :iagree: 3rd time was a charm for me. My 3rd child showed many signs of dyslexia early on. I delayed formal reading instruction in favor of more/deeper readiness skill-building. He started reading at 7yo, and we didn't begin formal spelling until age 9. We begin cursive along with spelling and through our spelling lessons. He is gliding through easily right now. I am very glad we waited. I see it all coming together for him, and I just kick myself that I didn't know what I know now back when my oldest (dyslexic) was young. I would start formal spelling when a child is at a solid 2nd grade level in reading, at a minimum. 1 Quote
knitgrl Posted March 18, 2016 Author Posted March 18, 2016 Thank you for so many helpful suggestions! Looking to next year, I do not think we will use WWE again. It wasn't awful, and having the pdf to print pages out was really handy, but it seems that pulling sentences from what is currently being read would be more meaningful. Copywork seems like a good way to reinforce what's being learned in English and applying it to living literature, perhaps sometimes as a way to present the good, the true and the beautiful. 1 Quote
Slache Posted March 18, 2016 Posted March 18, 2016 Thank you for so many helpful suggestions! Looking to next year, I do not think we will use WWE again. It wasn't awful, and having the pdf to print pages out was really handy, but it seems that pulling sentences from what is currently being read would be more meaningful. Copywork seems like a good way to reinforce what's being learned in English and applying it to living literature, perhaps sometimes as a way to present the good, the true and the beautiful.I'm too tired to reread this entire thread, but if it hasn't been mentioned yet I believe you're describing English Lessons Through Literature. I have the PDF for level one and I'm almost positive it includes the workbook. Quote
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