Questions re SLD reading, low processing speed, and testing scores

[Bookworm4]

I met with a few people at the school today regarding DD8 and the testing they did over the last two months (at my request). I don't have the official report with all the scores, but some of the scores or notes about where she fell on some of the testing. I know the school doesn't use the term dyslexia and that dyslexia is one of the things that falls under SLD reading. I am trying to understand if it is in fact dyslexia or something else causing the SLD reading. When I read about dyslexia, I feel like the description fits her well, but I'm no expert so second guess myself.

Here is what I have so far:

WISC (I don't know which version)
*Verbal comprehension 93 - 32nd percentile - low average
Perceptual reasoning 110 - 75th percentile - high average
Working memory 110 - 75th percentile - high average
Processing speed 75 - 5th percentile - below average
Full scale - 97 - 42nd percentile
GAI - 101 - 53rd percentile

*The school psych thought that her processing speed may have lowered her score here based on a few things in the testing.

TOLD - P:3 (I don't have the exact scores yet on these - just dots on a bell curve)
Picture vocabulary - approx 85 - low average
Oral vocabulary - approx 112 - high average

TACL - 3
Vocabulary - 115 - high average
Elaborated phrases and sentences - 115 high average

CTOPP-2 (I don't have exact scores, just dots on a bell curve so the amounts below are close, but may differ from actual slightly)
Ellison and Blending words - 90 - low average
Phoneme Isolation - 100 - average
Memory for Digits - 120 - above average
Non word repetition - 115 - high average
Rapid digit naming - 84 - below average
Rapid Letter naming - 60 - less than 1 percentile

For background, we have done a LOT of phonics work and phonemic awareness the last 3.5 years (1 yr PS, 1 year LOE, 1.5 yrs AAR). She has also been in speech articulation for 3.5 years and parts of the speech work also worked with phonemic awareness. She used to mix up syllables in words a lot, but we have done a lot of work on that and she does much better than she used to when saying multi syllable words.

We did start on Barton 3 weeks ago after the testing was done or just about done (I think a small part of the CTOPP hadn't been administered when I started Barton 1). We are in lesson 3 in Barton currently. Sometimes I look at a lesson and think she will go through it quickly, but then something trips her up and we end up doing a lot of the extra practice as well. Even though the report I saw today said her phonological processing was "adequate" for her age, I still see some struggles in Barton (today in the first part of lesson 3 she struggled correctly breaking apart "il" within a nonsense word and in another combination she kept wanting to add a 4th sound even though she pulled down three tiles. I guess my point in that is that even though the SLP that did the testing said that her tested showed phonological processing was adequate, I feel like we have worked so much on this that what we are doing in Barton shouldn't be so hard. Barton tires her out as well so I know her brain is working hard. Once in a while she will mix up the correct sounds in the wrong order when it comes to the "touch and say" the tiles portion.

In all this, I am trying to understand if it would be good to continue to Barton that she is dyslexic and does need this, or is there something else besides dyslexia causing the reading problems that I shouldn't continue to spend the money on Barton and need to invest time and resources elsewhere. Of course the school offered to let her come in to work with a reading specialist from the resource room 30 min a day each day of the week, but they don't have anyone OG trained until the 5th grade level (that person uses Wilson).

The biggest thing they said is that she qualifies for SLD reading (in basic reading, reading fluency, and reading comprehension) and the low processing speed was an issue. The low processing speed was although thought to have influenced the low fluency scores in math and writing as well. If she were in a classroom, the types of accommodations they would put in an IEP were things like extra time on tests, not having to complete as many math problems on a sheet if she knew and understood the concepts, being allowed audio books and eventually maybe dictation software, less writing requirements, and I think a few other ideas were thrown out there.

Sorry this is so long. Now that I have some numbers, I'm just trying to figure out the best thing for DD right now and you all are so much more experienced and understand these more than I do at this point.

ETA: The psych did mention that he noticed with reading that she struggled with blending words she sounded out, she would both add or delete sounds in unknown words that she sounded out (he couldn't tell if it was a specific pattern), when she had a picture with something to read, she read better (contextual clues) than when she did with cold reading and no pictures. He didn't notice her reversing sounds within a word, but in our reading at home I have only seen that in words like was/saw, on/no, stop/spot, and other words with the same letters but in a different order.

She also was only 2 points away from qualifying with a SLD writing. They said anything equal to or lower than 83 in the academic areas qualified as a severe discrepancy. Overall written expression was 85 and the 15th percentile with writing fluency at 77 in the 6th percentile and writing samples at 92 in the 30th percentile. Getting her thoughts on the paper was very slow and hard for her. Copywork is very hard for her as well.

Edited March 15, 2016 by Bookworm4

[PeterPan]

I understand why you're frustrated!  It's true the federal dept of ed is instructing schools to use the term dyslexia, but they aren't.   :(  And yes it's a common issue that someone does therapy level interventions then tests and is trying to figure out what the results me.  I think the striking things are that the RAN/RAS is still quite low (lagging indicator, something you'll want to work on) and that the school is seeing enough challenges with decoding (not comprehension but decoding) that they're willing to call it SLD Reading.

 

So yes, with those two pieces, yes it's dyslexia.  Put on the badge, where it, feel CONFIDENT about it.  It's dyslexia.  Your scores there show you're doing the right things!  You need to add some RAN/RAS work.  Did they consider ADHD?  It's frequently co-morbid with dyslexia.  The Eides, in their book Dyslexic Advantage, given some new MRI evidence for WHY these kids have low processing speed.  You might read the book and see what you think.  I think it's useful and applicable beyond dyslexia even, but in your case it might be a positive liferaft in a sea of unhappy results.  

 

Ok, the SLD writing.  Obviously that's really nip and tuck.  Remember, the school is not actually asking what is going on.  Rather they're asking what is so severe that it affects her ability to access her education and therefore has to be intervened on.  Many kids have diagnoses for which they receive no interventions.  I'm saying that's a line that can CHANGE.  It looks like they've given you standard scores, and that 83 is them saying below 1.5 standard deviations where the standard deviation is probably 10.  So me, I might come back and say he, what about that 77 and that 85 that is right on the line... Because the scores are that iffy, I think they could change over time and with fresh evals.  And that's ok to let that pan out, kwim?  She's dyslexic, so you expect writing to be hard.  It's ok for a psych to say the dyslexia is making the writing hard.  But continue the Barton and see what happens.  

 

Has she had an OT eval?  Vision eval by a developmental optometrist? 

 

Well it sounds like the school made a real effort to be helpful to you!  And yes, that processing speed is terribly low, debilitatingly low.  I don't doubt one bit that it is causing a LOT of her frustrations and struggles.  My dd has a big gap between IQ and processing speed, and it's one of the reasons we stopped doing math together.  Anyways, we've had some people on the board who found their dc's processing speed that had been in the single digits bumped to mid-30s with Interactive Metronome.  Heathermomster has posted some free instructions to do a hack (not as good as paid, but the price is right) version at home.  If you can find someone to do IM, that would work too.  But it has been a couple people, and going from single digits to 30s on your dd could be a huge functional improvement.  It's worth looking into or trying in whatever way you can.

 

You've done well with her working memory, wow!  That tells you that these breakdowns are not occurring because of low working memory at least.  That's a good support for her low processing speed too.  So, for instance, in the decoding struggles, they're occurring because she has the dyslexia, not because of just low working memory/ADHD.  I think that's part of why the school got to SLD reading for you.

 

So yes, continue Barton, mercy!  Find the link for my RAN/RAS pages (free) and do them.  I think you'll LOVE the results when you do that.  That picture vocab score is interesting.  I would do some rapid naming with pictures.  I have a picture spelling dictionary that has words organized by theme.  Did they do the CELF on her?  It would be interesting to know if there's more going on with her language.  I would get her eyes checked by a develpmental optometrist (just an annual visit thing, asking them to screen), but I always say that.  And read DA.

 

Congrats on the helpful evals!  :)

Edited March 15, 2016 by OhElizabeth

[Bookworm4]

I only have a few minutes so will have to reply more this evening.  DD did go through vision therapy 2 years ago and the recent check said her vision is still on track.  The doc noticed that her eyes very slightly jumped in tracking (I think near the midline), but not enough that would warrant more vision therapy.    I actually think that the VT she had in the past had a big impact on how she scored in perceptual reasoning and working memory because her visual perceptual scores were well below other kids her age before VT.  I'm not convinced that there are also not more retained reflexes, but there doesn't appear to be anyone in the area well trained in this area to evaluate this.  The VT center can check for some, but the COVD doc said that if he knew of someone trained in this area, they would refer patients out rather than checking themselves for retained reflexes.  She did have an OT eval last week, but it wasn't a full eval as we initially requested an eval for handwriting problems so that is where the OT focused.  The OT called her a "curiosity" as she had all the needed visual perceptual skills needed for handwriting, but she could see the huge struggle.  At the end when I was dealing with some paperwork, the OT had her to a few gross motor skills and said that while DD has been able to do a lot of the gross motor skills, she struggled with them.  She was going to put in her report that we need some OT sessions, but it's a long wait to actually get it.  The OT wondered if there could be something sensory adding to any struggles, but didn't do a full eval to know.  In the mean time, she told me to have DD do some gross motor work before doing any fine motor work and to limit handwriting to around 10 min a day and look into starting to teach her typing now.  

 

I have Dyslexic Advantage on the shelf and need to pull it out again.  I got through 3/4 of it before life got a little crazy and I didn't get back to it.  I also realized last night that I have the book Bright Kids Who Can't Keep Up on the shelf which is all about processing speed so will plan to read that as well.  I will print off your RAN pages I've seen you link before.  Does working on rapid naming help improve processing speed overall or just in the specific areas practiced?  I will also find the thread about the IM work that Heathermomster shared in the past.  I remember seeing it a few times.  As for picture vocabulary, is any picture dictionary good or are there specific ones better for teaching this?

 

They didn't mention anything about ADHD at the meeting, but we have another appointment with a private developmental pediatrician in a month that sent us paperwork to fill out related to that. 

 

 

 

 

[MistyMountain]

If they evaluator said it seems the processing speed lowered her vocabulary score on the WISC I would believe him. She did get higher vocabulary scores on that other testing. Plus everyone has days where they do better then others. I do think weaknesses can artificially lower other scores or subsections and I do not think the testing is perfect but it can help catch patterns and areas of strength and weakness. I think a common thing to happen is that with a slow processing speed they are working so hard to hold onto the details that the big picture is missed. Multitasking is also something that will be a weakness. They learn better when not a lot is thrown at them at once or with cluttered busy pages.

 

I have kids with processing speed weakness. There is not a lot out there yet and no researched methods specifically for the weaknesses and issues they cause like there are for dyslexia. Dyslexia is a common thing to occur with a low processing speed. I liked the book Bright Kids Who Can't Keep Up. It addresses a slow processing speed. It goes into what causes it, what things you might see with it, what types of thing work for kids with that difficulty etc. It is a good book but it left me wishing there was more info out there on it.

 

I do think speech therapy can help scores especially if is focusing on articulation and phonemic awareness type of things. I think my ds presents ok in phonemic awareness because of the speech therapy he got. My youngest who did not get that has weaker phonemic awareness then him.

Edited March 15, 2016 by MistyMountain

[PeterPan]

You could google for videos on checking retained reflexes.  She may have one, and then you can google for exercises to integrate them.  Having that come back after VT would be a huge red flag.

 

 

When you're talking vocabulary, you can have word retrieval issues.  Google it to learn more.  Word retrieval can be low in dyslexia, and it's kind of a separate, important issue to learn about so you can understand *why* and be targeting it if that's going on.  It's not so much processing speed but more how the words organize in the brain.  That's why I asked if they did any language testing like the CELF to see if there's more going on.  And that's why I was suggesting the themed picture dictionary pages.  I was combining your need to work on RAN/RAS with a potential lexicon/word retrieval issue.  If that's going on, there are things you can do that help organize words in the brain so that all the words she needs for a topic are in the same file folder of the brain, making them easier to find.  For instance, going over key vocabulary before reading is a way to work on word retrieval and lexicon.  There are workbooks (I have one by DeGaetano) that have exercises for word retrieval where they look at a picture and do things like naming all the items in a picture and asking basic questions like what is she using to shovel the snow, what is beside the door, etc.

 

In other words, don't stop at the most basic interpretation of what the psych said, because you can take it farther.  It's not hard, and you can do it with things you already have (games, pictures, magazines, library books, ANYTHING), just by realizing what it is you're needing to do.

 

So discriminate processing speed and word retrieval.  The np we used ran something that gave a word retrieval score for dd.  It was low in a way that is common with dyslexia and praxis, which is why it became something on my mind.  She has low processing speed, but her word retrieval can be REALLY pesky.  It's just about debilitating in a conversation in spanish.  She can do it on spanish, but she can't SAY all this stuff and get it out fluidly.  

 

[kbutton]

I only have a few minutes so will have to reply more this evening.  DD did go through vision therapy 2 years ago and the recent check said her vision is still on track.  The doc noticed that her eyes very slightly jumped in tracking (I think near the midline), but not enough that would warrant more vision therapy.    I actually think that the VT she had in the past had a big impact on how she scored in perceptual reasoning and working memory because her visual perceptual scores were well below other kids her age before VT.  I'm not convinced that there are also not more retained reflexes, but there doesn't appear to be anyone in the area well trained in this area to evaluate this.  The VT center can check for some, but the COVD doc said that if he knew of someone trained in this area, they would refer patients out rather than checking themselves for retained reflexes.  She did have an OT eval last week, but it wasn't a full eval as we initially requested an eval for handwriting problems so that is where the OT focused.  The OT called her a "curiosity" as she had all the needed visual perceptual skills needed for handwriting, but she could see the huge struggle. 

 

This sounds a lot like my son, and the handwriting improved only after VT worked on retained reflexes. Do you know what your VT did for reflex work? 

[Storygirl]

I'm just going to chime in and agree that it sounds like dyslexia to me. It's annoying that schools don't like to use that term. We walked into our school evaluations with a neuropsych report diagnosing DD10 with dyslexia, and the school still calls it SLD Reading.

[Bookworm4]

You could google for videos on checking retained reflexes. She may have one, and then you can google for exercises to integrate them. Having that come back after VT would be a huge red flag.

 

 

When you're talking vocabulary, you can have word retrieval issues. Google it to learn more. Word retrieval can be low in dyslexia, and it's kind of a separate, important issue to learn about so you can understand *why* and be targeting it if that's going on. It's not so much processing speed but more how the words organize in the brain. That's why I asked if they did any language testing like the CELF to see if there's more going on. And that's why I was suggesting the themed picture dictionary pages. I was combining your need to work on RAN/RAS with a potential lexicon/word retrieval issue. If that's going on, there are things you can do that help organize words in the brain so that all the words she needs for a topic are in the same file folder of the brain, making them easier to find. For instance, going over key vocabulary before reading is a way to work on word retrieval and lexicon. There are workbooks (I have one by DeGaetano) that have exercises for word retrieval where they look at a picture and do things like naming all the items in a picture and asking basic questions like what is she using to shovel the snow, what is beside the door, etc.

 

In other words, don't stop at the most basic interpretation of what the psych said, because you can take it farther. It's not hard, and you can do it with things you already have (games, pictures, magazines, library books, ANYTHING), just by realizing what it is you're needing to do.

 

So discriminate processing speed and word retrieval. The np we used ran something that gave a word retrieval score for dd. It was low in a way that is common with dyslexia and praxis, which is why it became something on my mind. She has low processing speed, but her word retrieval can be REALLY pesky. It's just about debilitating in a conversation in spanish. She can do it on spanish, but she can't SAY all this stuff and get it out fluidly.

Our VT mainly focuses on checking the Moro reflex and then only checks the other reflexes if a student isn't progressing well or if a parent asks (they aren't well trained in reflexes and admit it right out when you ask them about retained reflexes besides the moro). I do think she still has a retained ATNR. Some of the exercises she did in VT would have targeted this, but I do not believe it was enough to integrate the reflex. I should have kept up with it after we ended VT, but didn't and not it's back on my list to work on and put on the front burner again.

 

I looked back at the notes I have and the SLP only did the phonological processing part of the CELF-4. She did not test the grammar section as she felt it wasn't needed based on her work with her the last 3 years and knowing how she communicates and her understanding of what they do together in speech. She did ask a few specific grammar questions from the test in a couple areas that they hadn't discussed during speech sessions to double check areas she wasn't familiar with specific to DD, but those were fine she said (she gave me an example and I didn't write it down so don't remember it now). She did the vocab testing to for the sake of the psych but had not concerns about vocab with DD. I asked to test at the sentence level as well and so she did that with the TACL-3 as well as the additional vocab section on that same test.

 

As for word retrieval issues, I will look it up to understand it more, but sometimes DD does struggle with word retrieval. I know in the WISC there were a few words that she told me she knew the meaning of the words but couldn't think of how to explain it. When she has to explain something that she is emotional about, she struggles to find the right words often (emotional as in sad, hurt, or similar - not necessarily when she is angry). On the other hand, she can talk for a hour or two straight with little interjection needed from whomever she is talking with. I'm not sure what the contrast of those behaviors mean related to word retrieval though. The psych didn't mention anything about word retrieval rate so I'm guessing it wasn't tested. How do you combine that with RAN? Rather than just RAN practice with colors, letters, and numbers, would it be adding categories of words like animals, or other groups of words as well with the RAN practicing?

[Bookworm4]

This sounds a lot like my son, and the handwriting improved only after VT worked on retained reflexes. Do you know what your VT did for reflex work?

They only addressed the Moro reflex purposely from what I could tell. However, she does appear to have a retained ATNR and one of the exercises they did for the eye tracking and visual motor with the bean bag toss is also one that can be used to help ATNR. However, I don't think it's fully integrated. The only work they did with reflexes was the "Moro walk" which I know is debated as to whether it is really the best method for integrating the Moro reflex. I am not aware of any OT's in the area that are familiar with retained reflexes. I do have video links saved and a book from a class I took while she was in VT so need to pull those out and try to test her myself for now and then make a plan of daily exercises.

[kbutton]

Our VT mainly focuses on checking the Moro reflex and then only checks the other reflexes if a student isn't progressing well or if a parent asks (they aren't well trained in reflexes and admit it right out when you ask them about retained reflexes besides the moro). I do think she still has a retained ATNR. Some of the exercises she did in VT would have targeted this, but I do not believe it was enough to integrate the reflex. I should have kept up with it after we ended VT, but didn't and not it's back on my list to work on and put on the front burner again.

 

Do you know what specific exercises you did? Duck and pigeon, etc.? **Edit, I read more closely. I think the Moro walk is probably what we call duck and pigeon. It was enormously helpful for us.

 

We had some exercises we did all the time and some that were in a specific progression. They say the integrate mostly Moro, but i think they did the ATNR/STNR stuff too with the specific progression--it had stuff in it that was like the lizard one for the ATNR or STNR. The big deal was not to hurry, and once something was going well, move on to the next step while making the mastered exercise harder (adding in distractions, doing it to a metronome, etc.). The movements needed to be fairly controlled as well--faster might be "easier" for the child, but slow and controlled was just as important.

 

Our progression of exercises had to do with moving arms and legs independently, then on same side, then stuff like right arm with left leg. They were done in a variety of poses from on back, belly, standing, etc., and included some crawling and bear walking. I think there were about eight exercises in the series (times their variations with independently, sides, alternating, etc.).

 

We did (and still do) duck/pigeon walks daily. with the goal of relaxed arms and legs with no curled up feet, etc. We were discharged from VT, but this is follow-up homework. We've done it since before Christmas! 

 

The influence on my son's coordination and handwriting was transformative to say the least. He also made some gains in core stability.

Edited March 16, 2016 by kbutton

[Bookworm4]

Do you know what specific exercises you did? Duck and pigeon, etc.? **Edit, I read more closely. I think the Moro walk is probably what we call duck and pigeon. It was enormously helpful for us.

 

We had some exercises we did all the time and some that were in a specific progression. They say the integrate mostly Moro, but i think they did the ATNR/STNR stuff too with the specific progression--it had stuff in it that was like the lizard one for the ATNR or STNR. The big deal was not to hurry, and once something was going well, move on to the next step while making the mastered exercise harder (adding in distractions, doing it to a metronome, etc.). The movements needed to be fairly controlled as well--faster might be "easier" for the child, but slow and controlled was just as important.

 

Our progression of exercises had to do with moving arms and legs independently, then on same side, then stuff like right arm with left leg. They were done in a variety of poses from on back, belly, standing, etc., and included some crawling and bear walking. I think there were about eight exercises in the series (times their variations with independently, sides, alternating, etc.).

 

We did (and still do) duck/pigeon walks daily. with the goal of relaxed arms and legs with no curled up feet, etc. We were discharged from VT, but this is follow-up homework. We've done it since before Christmas!

 

The influence on my son's coordination and handwriting was transformative to say the least. He also made some gains in core stability.

This is interesting. Yes, it was the "duck/pigeon" walk. I haven't had DD try it in a couple years so will have to ask her to do this tomorrow and see if she regressed at all since we stopped doing these almost 2 years ago. I had my 5 year old try this recently and when she tried to turn her feet in then her whole body seemed to turn in and the opposite for hen she tried to turn her feet out. I know I need to work on her with this also.

 

The bean bag toss with the drastic exaggerated head movements is the exercise that I'm aware of that can help ATNR integration, but there may have been some others that I'm not remembering. I do remember the "Angel" exercises where she would lay on her back like making angels in the snow and have to move whichever limb she was told to move. I'm not sure what specifically that targeted, but I know I saw a huge improvement during VT with her ability in that area. Again, we haven't tried it in a long time though.

 

During VT, they never could get DD to stay on beat with a metronome at all in any of the exercises that had one. While I think that would be hard for her now, I think she would be able to do better now than she could at age 6. She can at least be close to the beat when clapping to music now whereas in the past it was all over the place. I will have to look up the other exercises you mentioned. They sound like ones that could be done in a "fun" way that will make her want to do them a little more.

[PeterPan]

If she has ATNR retained, she may also have STNR.  Those are a big deal!  I'd work on those and prioritize them.  

 

Metronome, yes my ds couldn't even clap once, let along to a metronome, when we started.  He'd go into this hyper-clap.  It has been a slow process.  Just keep working on it.  Keep it brief, vary (do three sets, each a different way), and praise.  

 

They didn't finish the CELF because they were cutting time and didn't bother.  (Sorry, I'm cynical.)  So they may be right or they may not be.  My ds has 99th percentile vocabulary and 28th percentile single sentence comprehension.  By the time you get up to paragraph level he's back up to 85th percentile comprehension.  It's significant and was tanking his reading comprehension, but it's so subtle that it's hard to tease out without a tool like the CELF.  But maybe the SLP was right and there's no issue.  

 

Don't make this more complicated on the RAN/RAS.  A simple thing, done consistently, is better than a complex idea that you don't get done.  Start with the colored dot pages and see how they go.  I put them into page protectors, and I would flip them, having him always reading across but having the page turned vertically, horizontally, or even diagonally.  When we started, I had to give him supports (finger on line, etc.)  When he was strong at that, we started adding in metronome to spice things up.  

 

So just start one way, and when that gets good (in a week, in a month, in three months), then add a variant.  You just keep doing that.  Your gut will tell you when she's ready for more.  It's simple things done consistently.  

[PeterPan]

What you were talking about with the emotions is covered in Zones of Regulation.  She may need that at some point.  You could bring some of that into your day with books, etc.

[Bookworm4]

If she has ATNR retained, she may also have STNR.  Those are a big deal!  I'd work on those and prioritize them.  

 

I just read the description of symptoms of STNR and it describes her well.  Thanks for the heads up.

 

Metronome, yes my ds couldn't even clap once, let along to a metronome, when we started.  He'd go into this hyper-clap.  It has been a slow process.  Just keep working on it.  Keep it brief, vary (do three sets, each a different way), and praise.  

 

Thanks for the tips.

 

They didn't finish the CELF because they were cutting time and didn't bother.  (Sorry, I'm cynical.)  So they may be right or they may not be.  My ds has 99th percentile vocabulary and 28th percentile single sentence comprehension.  By the time you get up to paragraph level he's back up to 85th percentile comprehension.  It's significant and was tanking his reading comprehension, but it's so subtle that it's hard to tease out without a tool like the CELF.  But maybe the SLP was right and there's no issue.  

 

I wouldn't be surprised if cutting time was part of this, but I think there was also a component of the SLP believes there is no need to put a child through the stress of testing if it isn't needed (we've had some good conversations on this topic and I agree with her view to a point, but not completely).

 

Don't make this more complicated on the RAN/RAS.  A simple thing, done consistently, is better than a complex idea that you don't get done.  Start with the colored dot pages and see how they go.  I put them into page protectors, and I would flip them, having him always reading across but having the page turned vertically, horizontally, or even diagonally.  When we started, I had to give him supports (finger on line, etc.)  When he was strong at that, we started adding in metronome to spice things up.  

 

I never thought about adding a metronome eventually.  I will keep that in mind.  Thanks.

 

So just start one way, and when that gets good (in a week, in a month, in three months), then add a variant.  You just keep doing that.  Your gut will tell you when she's ready for more.  It's simple things done consistently.  

 

This is so true and a good reminder.

 

[Bookworm4]

What you were talking about with the emotions is covered in Zones of Regulation.  She may need that at some point.  You could bring some of that into your day with books, etc.

 

I am not familiar with zones of regulation, but remember seeing the title on a thread here before.  It sounds like another thing to add to the list to read in the near future.

[Heathermomster]

I have been reading this thread with interest.  OP, I feel for you.  It seems like you are going to right people (OTs and the like) but aren't getting any useful feedback.  

 

If the ps school has identified the SLD for reading, stick with Barton.  ETA:  Follow all of the school's accommodations with extra time, reduced problem sets, audio books, and math problems.  LOE and AAR were never designed for dyslexics.  If your DD is inserting or adding extra sounds while reading, it could well be because of bad habits that she has formed, and it will take some time to undo those bad habits.  Thankfully, she is young.

 

Am I understanding this correctly?  You are on a waiting list for OT services?  If so, once you meet with the OT, request that they evaluate pincer/core strength, retained reflexes, motor planning, static/dynamic balance, tone, handedness, vestibular, and motor planning. If sensory issues are suspected, maybe call now and request the SIPT evaluation.  If you wanted to work with your DD now, you could take about 10 minutes daily and wheelbarrow walk with her and perform cross body type exercises/elliptical work.  Swimming is good for overall strength.  This link explains how to test for retained reflexes at home.  Be sure to read down the entire page.

 

I've never used a developmental pediatrician, so I don't know what they will do for you.  Maybe ensure they get copies of all testing conducted by the public school.  Given the articulation issues and the scores from testing, I would have expected an SLD for written expression.  Apraxia and DCD tend to go hand in hand.  Address the handwriting with the developmental ped because there may be more specific testing to help identify dysgraphia/DCD.  Whatever the case, scribe for your DD.  You could try speech to text using an IPod or an Android device for orally narrating work.  Obviously, don't persist if articulation is a problem.  

 

Why an SLP would discourage NP testing due to stress is beyond me.  How does your child behave?  Is she over emotional or suffer anxieties that the SLP is seeing?  If not, I would suggest that being forced to do unaccommodated school work day in and day out while continually failing is far more stressful than two mornings of NP testing.

 

DS performed IM work and reflex reintegration with an OT.  Later, the OT worked with my younger DD, and I was not impressed. Ultimately, I located a pediatric PT that worked with both of my kiddos, and each child realized gains.  Don't rule out sports medicine people if you are unable to find a decent OT.

 

And lastly, good luck.  Over 8 years ago, I was completely overwhelmed by my son's testing results.  He was identified gifted with 3 SLDs.  He worked with a Wilson tutor for 5 years and learned to type in 5th grade.  Each year has brought about a new challenge; however, as a 10th grader, he sits in a regular class and completes all of his work, albeit at a slower pace.  You will need patience to persevere.

Edited March 16, 2016 by Heathermomster

[FairProspects]

DS performed IM work and reflex reintegration with an OT.  Later, the OT worked with my younger DD, and I was not impressed. Ultimately, I located a pediatric PT that worked with both of my kiddos, and each child realized gains.  Don't rule out sports medicine people if you are unable to find a decent OT.

 

And lastly, good luck.  Over 8 years ago, I was completely overwhelmed by my son's testing results.  He was identified gifted with 3 SLDs.  He worked with a Wilson tutor for 5 years and learned to type in 5th grade.  Each year has brought about a new challenge; however, as a 10th grader, he sits in a regular class and completes all of his work, albeit at a slower pace.  You will need patience to persevere.

 

This is so true. We had a fabulous pediatric OT, but older ds requested help for more athletic skills related to soccer and he is seeing some great progress all around from sports related PT.

 

I so hope the last paragraph will also be true for us. Each year has definitely brought new challenges but ds is not old enough to see it all come together yet. Sometimes it is depressing because we both work so hard and I just don't know if it ever will.

[Bookworm4]

I have been reading this thread with interest.  OP, I feel for you.  It seems like you are going to right people (OTs and the like) but aren't getting any useful feedback.  

 

Thanks.  It has been a frustrating long road so far.  We may need to travel 2-3 hours to a larger city or spend many months waiting to get what we need around here (a friend has been on a waiting list for speech therapy outside the school system for 6+ months and her other child receives 12 weeks of OT then has to wait while other kids get a chance and he goes back on the waiting list until it's his turn again and he can get another 12 weeks.  It's not a great option, but we are limited here).

 

If the ps school has identified the SLD for reading, stick with Barton.  ETA:  Follow all of the school's accommodations with extra time, reduced problem sets, audio books, and math problems.  LOE and AAR were never designed for dyslexics.  If your DD is inserting or adding extra sounds while reading, it could well be because of bad habits that she has formed, and it will take some time to undo those bad habits.  Thankfully, she is young.

 

Thanks.  This makes sense.  Level 1 has taken us longer than I expected and I am seeing both progress and struggles in areas I did not expect when we started it.

 

Am I understanding this correctly?  You are on a waiting list for OT services?  If so, once you meet with the OT, request that they evaluate pincer/core strength, retained reflexes, motor planning, static/dynamic balance, tone, handedness, vestibular, and motor planning. If sensory issues are suspected, maybe call now and request the SIPT evaluation.  If you wanted to work with your DD now, you could take about 10 minutes daily and wheelbarrow walk with her and perform cross body type exercises/elliptical work.  Swimming is good for overall strength.  This link explains how to test for retained reflexes at home.  Be sure to read down the entire page.

 

Yes, we are on a waiting list for OT services, however, I haven't been told how many appointments we will even be granted for now.  We may only get 4 to start and then the OT will have to get the doctor's permission to do more and explain why she needs more after that.  Meanwhile, she would be back on the waiting list after the initial 4 (or whatever number) approved sessions.  I did hear that there was a good OT a couple hours away from here that may also be familiar with retained reflexes.  I have been thinking about seeing if we could see that OT for a full eval as it sounds like we will be on the other local waiting list for a long time.

 

I've never used a developmental pediatrician, so I don't know what they will do for you.  Maybe ensure they get copies of all testing conducted by the public school.  Given the articulation issues and the scores from testing, I would have expected an SLD for written expression.  Apraxia and DCD tend to go hand in hand.  Address the handwriting with the developmental ped because there may be more specific testing to help identify dysgraphia/DCD.  Whatever the case, scribe for your DD.  You could try speech to text using an IPod or an Android device for orally narrating work.  Obviously, don't persist if articulation is a problem.  

 

I don't know a whole lot about the developmental pediatrician to be honest.  I recently got paperwork from her office to fill out and return before the appointment and all the paperwork focused on ADHD so I don't really know what to expect with her.  I know she works with local autism patients, but I don't know a whole lot else.  Recently when we had an appointment with our ped, I asked him about it and he said the strength with seeing her with the team of experts in different areas that she has to work with at her location (it's the same place we are on the wait list for OT services and a friend is on the wait list for speech services).  It sounds like outside of a school psych, it may be the next best option locally.  The ped also told me that there is a neurologist about 3 hours away from me that specializes in working with children with learning struggles and telling the parents how their child best learns to know how to better teach them or something like that.  It sounds like the wait time isn't bad to get into there (only a month or two) and may look into that depending upon the appointment with the developmental pediatrician.  I still haven't figured out where to find a neuropsych in our state (again it would be 3 hrs away most likely) but have found some educational psychs that do testing.  I may meet with the developmental ped to see what she said she has to offer/say and then decide what to do next since it took almost 1/2 a year to get into see her and our appointment is next month.  I'm not really sure what the next best thing to do here is.  There was a psych (who used to be a school psych but is not private) that I had contacted this winter and she said she may be willing to do testing to fill in the gaps of what the school missed, if any.  Her website lists all the tests that Susan Barton listed in her email about testing options for dyslexia plus more, but I wasn't sure about her definition of dyslexia and if it was even worth seeing her.

 

Why an SLP would discourage NP testing due to stress is beyond me.  How does your child behave?  Is she over emotional or suffer anxieties that the SLP is seeing?  If not, I would suggest that being forced to do unaccommodated school work day in and day out while continually failing is far more stressful than two mornings of NP testing.

 

My child is well behaved with the SLP.  Granted she occationally has a bad attitude, but overall she is good with her.  Sometimes she is spacy or inattentive with her, but that may come back to the processing speed.  I'm not really sure.

 

DS performed IM work and reflex reintegration with an OT.  Later, the OT worked with my younger DD, and I was not impressed. Ultimately, I located a pediatric PT that worked with both of my kiddos, and each child realized gains.  Don't rule out sports medicine people if you are unable to find a decent OT.

 

This is interesting.  We don't have any pediatric PT in the area, but I know some PT will work with children.  What types of things does a PT do that an OT doesn't do for children?  I never thought to check into PT before.

 

And lastly, good luck.  Over 8 years ago, I was completely overwhelmed by my son's testing results.  He was identified gifted with 3 SLDs.  He worked with a Wilson tutor for 5 years and learned to type in 5th grade.  Each year has brought about a new challenge; however, as a 10th grader, he sits in a regular class and completes all of his work, albeit at a slower pace.  You will need patience to persevere.

Thank you also for the encouragement.  It's always to hear how different work/therapy has helped kids as they are older.

[Heathermomster]

You asked about differences with the our OT and the PT.  The PT was RMT trained and used more sports equipment to integrate the reflexes.  She also addressed static/dynamic balance, postural exercises, exercises that crossed the midline and improved bilateral coordination, and overall body strengthening exercises.  DS finally learned to swim after PT.  OT relied heavily upon IM and having DS stand on an half yoga ball for balance.

 

Each therapist gave daily homework beside the therapies, and DS spent about 6 weeks with the OT and 8 weeks with the PT.  Our OT just wasn't very good.

 

ETA:  I have seen S'cool Moves recommended, but I haven't used this myself.

Edited March 19, 2016 by Heathermomster

[Incognito]

I don't know if this applies to you or not, but you said the school would do some tutoring, and we've had extreme improvement with a similar profile using an online tutoring program through our available school program.  Fast ForWord.  

 

It works with phonological processing - which you have done a ton of work with already, so maybe it doesn't target what you'd need, but if you look at what it does and think it'd suit, I can't say enough good things about the improvements we saw.  Improvements in reading - for sure, but also improvements in hearing/listening faster, which seemed to make it easier to think faster.  

 

I had a child who was mostly unable to talk with random people because of slow processing, able to actually be in conversations with people outside the family (because before it would just take the child too long to answer, so others would have moved on).

 

So anyways, here's a link: http://www.scilearn.com/products/fast-forword/language-series/language  you can click on the different activities and see what they do and decide if that practice would be useful for your daughter.

 

Also, I didn't think about it this way, but my child also began an ensemble instrument that year.  I believe the musical work also has helped my child make huge strides in the metronome type stuff. 

 

 

Edited March 19, 2016 by Incognito

[Esse Quam Videri]

Following with interest as well. Sounds so very much like my severely dyslexic DD, even similar scores. We ended up doing all the extra practice in Barton 1 even if she got through the first set of the lessons okay, just because I could still occasionally see issues. I wanted it rock solid, 100%... Well it's still not so, but we've done all we can with Level 1. We are using the rapid naming sheets- genius to move to metronome with them later! We haven't seen much improvement yet, but it's still very new.