Sixth grader showing difficulties...need advice

[koko]

Hello ladies!  My 6th grader is having a very difficult time with reading comprehension and with writing. We can read something together--or he can read something alone--and it seems to all fall out of his head when I ask him the comprehension questions. He's not inattentive, just can't seem to remember important elements of what he/we read, especially books at/above his grade level. 

 

Further, his writing is atrocious and a huge challenge...even simple assignments melt him down. He can't seem to follow instructions for assignments, and his grammar is awful  

 

He seems to be 4th grade than 6th in his conceptualizations...very concrete in how he writes. We are using SL Core G's Language Arts, and the assignments seem way over his head. 

 

He isn't dyslexic--I've got an older son with that, and that isn't the case here. And he doesn't dislike reading; often he'll tell me how much he is enjoying a book.  

 

Does this echo for anyone? Suggestions? 

[PeterPan]

Since everything you're describing screams inattentive, I'd go back to that honestly.  Do you want to do evals?  Have you done any standardized testing to have an objective statement of where he's at?  The McCall/Crabbs comprehension books (recommended by Spalding and SWR) were usually pretty spot-on for my dd, predicting what her standardized test scores would be.  She's a phenomenal reader.  When she does that, it's the ADHD honestly.  So you need some data to let you piece out what is actually going on.  Cheapest place to start is standardized testing.  The Woodcock Johnson gives actual grade levels and has no ceiling, so that's where I'd start.

 

If he has EF issues (very probable), then he's going to need some more support/structure with his writing.  Fwiw, when my dd was about that age (well more like 7th/8th) we did Heathermomster's IM homework and got religion about typing.  While we did the metronome work, we brought in digit spans.  For her, Inspiration software helps with the structure of writing. For getting her thoughts out, she really needed to be able to type and needed more working memory.  I'm saying it's not a simple problem.  If he has vocabulary issues, language issues, whatever (like my ds does), then that will complicate it even more.  But those would be the *simplest* solutions.

 

Are you saying the way he seems behind to you seems like a social/maturity thing?  Is he very literal in other things?  Does he get jokes?  

 

I think I would start with gathering more data and put EF issues and ADHD back on the table.  Might get you farther.  

[koko]

Thank you SO much for your thoughtful reply. No, haven't done any testing, but I do have a special ed teacher friend who would be willing to test him. I have a MA in counseling psych and can tell you he is not ADD or ADHD. And yes, he's quite verbal and intuitive. I guess I'm just trying to get a handle on what I might be looking at...sometimes it's most difficult when you're looking at your own kids! 

[PeterPan]

Well if you're very confident on that (like you've run a BRIEF or other EF survey), then that's actually concerning.  Then I'd be wanting a hearing eval, a CELF (language test), etc.  But obviously start with the simplest things.  If your friend can run the WJIII, I think it has some special sections for vocabulary, etc.  You might just have her explore and see what she finds.  

[SebastianCat]

SL Core G might be a bit too high for a 6th grader, especially a boy. We are longtime SL users, and I use Core G for 7th grade, not 6th. Don't be afraid to back down a level or stretch it over 2 years. That's a heavy reading load. Has he done previous Cores, and did he have the same issues, or is this a new problem?

 

Are you reading the books aloud, or is he reading them independently? That might make a difference in his comprehension. The Read Aloud books are written at a higher level than the Readers, and SL's intent is for the parent to read everything to the child except the Readers prior to high school. Some kids need to doodle or fidget with something in order to focus while listening.

 

I will also chime in with the fact that 6th grade was a very difficult year for us. I was not prepared for puberty to start that early, but things got much better the following year and with getting the right combination of sleep, food, and exercise. But for a while my previously sweet, bookwormish, very verbal boy was completely inattentive, grumpy, frustrated, couldn't focus, and was very easily agitated. If what you describe is new for your DS, I'd probably start with making sure he's getting enough sleep (MORE than he did 2 years ago), takes at least two breaks during school for snacks, and is getting at least 30-60 minutes of strenuous exercise every day, preferably as a break during school hours. See if any of those changes make a difference, then seek evaluations if they don't help.

[Tiramisu]

Thank you SO much for your thoughtful reply. No, haven't done any testing, but I do have a special ed teacher friend who would be willing to test him. I have a MA in counseling psych and can tell you he is not ADD or ADHD. And yes, he's quite verbal and intuitive. I guess I'm just trying to get a handle on what I might be looking at...sometimes it's most difficult when you're looking at your own kids! 

 

Your are totally correct. And I don't mean to sound horrible, but sometimes we do miss things with our own kids until they really hit a wall. My mom is an LCSW and former teacher of elementary ed with an M.Ed. She has over thirty years of experience as a therapist for children, working closely with them in various settings. She totally missed my dc's issues even though she was with them often and participated in their schooling. Why? Because they are verbal and (superficially) intuitive! 

 

I think I missed issues with my own kids because I was accustomed to not-quite-normal.

 

I would get an objective person who you trust to run some tests. Besides that, I think I'd go for an OT eval because of the writing and the meltdowns. An np can run various kinds of memory tests: short term, longer term, visual, auditory, etc.

 

On a practical level, now is a great time to teach typing. Typing can make a big difference for kids with writing difficulties.

 

If you have an older ds with dyslexia, it isn't a far leap to imagine a processing issue in another child.

 

That said, I have one dd who had a lot of the issues you describe. Poor memory of math facts. Poor comprehension with longer passages. Lots of difficulty writing. She had convergence insufficiency and a tracking problem and had vision therapy in 8th grade. She now is a high achieving high school student. So it doesn't have to be a problem, but it's better to check and not be sorry later.

[Storygirl]

DS11 has SLD in reading comprehension (among other issues). It's a tricky problem.

 

First, I wonder...did your son have problems before this year? If not, it could be that the books he is reading are too hard for him developmentally; he may just not be ready for them yet, as someone else suggested.

 

Otherwise, I echo the suggestion to get some testing to see if you can determine the root cause, because there are several things that could be at play.

[DC1346]

 

Hello ladies!  My 6th grader is having a very difficult time with reading comprehension and with writing. We can read something together--or he can read something alone--and it seems to all fall out of his head when I ask him the comprehension questions. He's not inattentive, just can't seem to remember important elements of what he/we read, especially books at/above his grade level. 

 

Further, his writing is atrocious and a huge challenge...even simple assignments melt him down. He can't seem to follow instructions for assignments, and his grammar is awful  

 

He seems to be 4th grade than 6th in his conceptualizations...very concrete in how he writes. 

 

I noted in previous threads that you have not had your child complete a standardized test. I also noted that you said that he was not dyslexic. 

 

As someone who is autistic (Asperger's Syndrome), I wonder ... have you ever had him checked for autism? I didn't learn that I was on the high performing end of the autistic spectrum until last year. As a child I had normal linguistic development. I was also bright and whilst attending private schools, I always found myself in an advanced or accelerated class. 

 

With this being said, I feel compelled to point out that people on the autistic spectrum (including those with Asperger's Syndrome) are all very literal. You mentioned that he is very "concrete" in how he writes and that could be a function of autism as the ability to understand unspoken intent i.e. inferences, can be very challenging for us. Although my lifetime of experiences has helped me develop the facade of normalcy, I still have problems with understanding sarcasm.  In person to person communication, I also lack the ability to understand all but the most obvious types of body language and facial expressions. 

 

As a child, my motor coordination was not very good and I was always the last chosen to play at any sport. The quality of my handwriting (both print and cursive) was atrocious and has not really  improved over the years. During my senior year in college (my first post-secondary degree was in elementary education), a college professor who was about to retire after 40 years in the field told me that I had the WORST handwriting she had ever seen.

 

Due to my autism, I considered this to be a compliment because I was "number one". Granted I was tops on the wrong side of what must have been a very long line of students who had passed through her classroom, I was still thrilled with the distinction. A friend had to explain that this wasn't a compliment which was admittedly a bit of a let down. 

 

I should also say at this point that I am an adult survivor. I grew to adulthood knowing that I was different from everyone else but not knowing why. My parents were regretfully firm believers in the concept of "spare the rod and spoil the child". Although they also knew that I was a bit off, they really didn't know why ... and so they liberally applying the proverbial rod (my father's belt) to me with the expectation that they could beat me into conformity.

 

I didn't learn I was autistic until last year. As you might imagine, this gave me a great many "ah-hah" moments as I have looked back over the course of my life with the understanding of why I am the way I am. 

 

Regards,

 

David

 

 

 

[koko]

Wow, thank you everyone--especially David with your candid personal experiences. "Number One!" That is a sweet story albeit I'm sure a difficult memory.

 

I just needed some "handles" for what I'm seeing, and this post has helped. 

 

Regarding SL, thank you for the feedback about Core G. I didn't know it was a stretch for this grade level. He reads the readers on his own and we do the read-alouds together. The cool thing I discovered as I sat down to look at the IG for this week is that it is taking him chapter by chapter through the beginnings of literary analysis with this week's reader...with a worksheet for each day. We can do this together and I am hopeful it will help me better see his thinking process. We have done SL for three years now. 

 

Regarding previous problems, yes he has always had difficulty with composition and still struggles with handwriting. He was super late to learn his alphabet (like, kindergarten) and tie his shoelaces. However, reading comprehension didn't seem to be a problem till this year. He does well in math but has great difficulty with saying times tables. 

 

I will talk to my friend about testing as that should give me a sense of the issue. Thanks again! 

[PeterPan]

I think your friend is going to need to refer you to a psych for more complete evals.  

[Tiramisu]

I think your friend is going to need to refer you to a psych for more complete evals.  

 

I agree. Often educational evals will reveal there's some kind of problem in an academic area but they can't always tell you exactly what causes it, whether it's a memory problem, an auditory problem or visual problem. From what you shared, I think it could be any of those. If you don't know what causes it, attempts to help can be inefficient. If you can address it, it could help the academic problem and perhaps the meltdowns, too, if they are triggered by frustration.

Edited March 14, 2016 by Tiramisu

[Heathermomster]

You already have a child with dyslexia.  Based upon all that you have described, a full neuropsych eval would benefit you and your child.

 

Maybe seek an OT or ped PT eval with your DS and have eye tracking and convergency evaluated by an COVD certified VT.  

 

You haven't mentioned any accommodations.  Is he typing or listening to audio books with immersion.  Since he can't say his math facts, what level of math is he working?  It is very difficult to work through the math up to algebra if one can't say the times tables,

 

[kbutton]

I think your friend is going to need to refer you to a psych for more complete evals.  

 

I agree. Spec ed folks are good at helping what's wrong and finding ways to intervene, but they are not trained at diagnosing. A lot of school don't even use proper terminology for the problems a student is facing--SLD reading, SLD math, etc. are broad categories, not precise labels for specific problems. SLD reading can look totally different in five different kids! 

 

You need words for where things are getting hung up. A spec ed teacher might be able to give you school words, but they may not be able to give you clinical words. If you want some evidence-based information, you need clinical words.

 

This is not a knock on spec ed teachers--they are trained to work in a school environment across diagnostic labels chosen by what schools will recognize as a label.