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We just got my almost 7 year old evaluated and he is on the autism spectrum. I'm so glad to find this out and have a diagnosis! I am wondering how to proceed with the math though. He is very smart and has already memorized all addition facts, subtraction and multiplication facts, he is working on division right now, but I expect by the end of next week they will be mastered too. He doesn't really like manipulatives he just gets numbers and only uses helps like the abacus/cubes if he has to. 

Up till now we have been using Abeka math he likes how varied it is and the colors, but it is moving too slow for him in some areas like the facts, but in other areas he still needs to learn like time and such. We skipped ahead about 30 lessons and I expect to skip more next week as he picks up new stuff pretty quick and retains it once gone over spiraly a few times times.

 

I tried math mammoth but he DID NOT like those books which is too bad because I really think they would fit his learning style perfectly. He wants more activities but I'm at a loss as how to teach that way with him since he never really likes it because "it takes too long".

I tried MEP but again he doesn't like activities because it takes longer, in his mind, even though he says he want more than just books.

I've thought about CLE since I hear you can move through it quickly easier? 

I'm ok with sticking to Abeka too since it does work for him we just have to skip a lot of lessons occasionally. He gets bored with it but he also likes it so we just have to balance things and tweak it.

 

So my question is how do you teach a kid like that? A kid who gets bored and throws a fit if it's too easy, but if it's too hard we have the same problem? 

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Sounds like you've got a BA/AOPS kid.  You might try BA 3 just to see.

 

As for manipulatives, some kids don't need gimmicks to do math - it's just natural.  The best thing you can do for them is to feed them.  Don't limit yourself to one curriculum, nor single thread.  Bounce around, parallel, explore.  Race to breadth, not distance.  "Giving up" is a sign of immaturity, not lack of ability.  Breadth will help to combat the urge to quit, as it will solidify the foundations for the days when learning becomes tough.

 

Until he has the maturity for AOPS, consider giving BA a go with some unusual add-ons: logic, set theory, or number theory.  Your kid may really surprise you - 7-10 year olds get those concepts just as easily as adults.

 

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We use Singapore, and we add in the Intensive Practice books (my son is 2e ASD as well). At first, he would make a lot of intuitive leaps and then panic because he didn't know how he came to that conclusion. Over time, he learned to trust the method, and he also learned to trust that I'd help him figure things out. 

 

One thing to keep in mind is that these kids are only semi-reliable in how they perceive and report stuff. You might need to find a way to "prove" to your son some things about the nature of how long something takes, what seems to work or not work for him, etc. in a respectful and illuminating way (hard to achieve at times!). Tracking behavior surrounding his lessons might be one way to do this--pick a couple of things he complains about and show him that he complains equally about too easy and too hard, and then maybe find a way to talk about it factually and come up with some strategies together. Comparing how long one kind of lesson takes vs. another curriculum's lesson might also help. Whatever you do, you want to reinforce his competence, but also make him feel like you'll be able to give him strategies when he struggles. 

 

My son came from a school that did A Beka, and he struggled a lot with telling time. The A Beka way confused him--it was WAY TOO incremental. He mastered it in one day with MUS's approach. FWIW, I don't think A Beka always taught time in this confusing way--I remember learning how to tell time start to finish (to the minute) in K, and my K teacher used A Beka. There is such a thing as too incremental, esp. with gifted kids.

 

I would also consider finding a behaviorist to help across the board. I know you didn't list a bunch of frustrating behaviors (frustrating to both of you), but they are usually there. You might not need ABA, but especially with a new diagnosis, it can be hard to figure out what makes these kids tick and not be subject to their frustrations and whims a lot of the time. A board certified behaviorist (BCBA) can help with this whether or not they use full ABA.

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So my question is how do you teach a kid like that? A kid who gets bored and throws a fit if it's too easy, but if it's too hard we have the same problem? 

 

I have one that sounds JUST like that. She just turned 8. While she has siblings on the spectrum, from what I can tell she's very neurotypical. She's also very stubborn and prefers the path of least resistance.

 

 

She's mostly used Horizons math, and reacted like fire and ice, much like you described in your OP. Horizons is spiral like Abeka, but has a different feel to it, and less drill. This school year I put Math in Focus 3 in the closet and let her race ahead in Horizons 3 until it was "too easy and super stupid." When math couldn't be done without drama again I switched her to Math in Focus. The approach is very different from Horizons and she thrived immediately. She flew through that book for a couple months until rather suddenly it was stupid and the balking was back. So I shelved it and handed Horizons back to her. By that point Horizons was like her old faithful and she literally hugged the book. We ended up skipping lessons and hopping around to get her back to a place with appropriate challenge, and she did great. Until one day it was stupid again. See a theme? :laugh:   Since redundant sections are getting skipped and/or compacted with every switch she's going to end up finishing both of them in one school year easily enough.

 

MiF tells us to use a base 10 block set on occasion. DD/2nd has zero problem visualizing the concept and explaining it back to me, so we've skipped it every time. Horizons assigns some manipulatives in the TM, which I never bother to check except for the answer key. If DD ever failed to grasp what they were teaching I'd just dig them out then.

 

DD is quick to say she doesn't like math, but she makes her own problems on whiteboards for fun all the time. Every day this week she's brought one to me with a long division problem she created and asked me to see if it was right.

 

eta: We tried Beast Academy. DD/2nd did the first chapter of 3A and adamantly refused to look at the book ever again.

Edited by SilverMoon
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BTW, if you are doing 2nd grade A Beka math with him, that was a terrible year for my son. We pulled him for third grade and beyond. Most of 2nd what a complete review and total waste of his time. The new information could have been compacted into maybe one quarter's worth of information. 

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That's kind of sad that someone doesn't like manipulatives. I love my math toys, and am always pulling them out to support what my dc (of all ages) are doing. 3D shapes, pattern blocks, Blokus game pieces (I learned the correct name for these in BA 3 and 4), tooth picks, tangrams, balance, scale, fraction tiles, plastic animals, rulers, compass, protractors, etc. etc. I'm never giving them up. They are the link between the concrete and abstract world of mathematics. And they are tons of fun. 

 

I'd recommend BA, too. And loads of puzzles and games.

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My ASD can't stand time wasters, which for his analytical mind math toys are.  Not sad at all. 

 

Short, get to the point texts or computer-based learning works for my guy. 

 

I listed a number of hands-on tools for math as well (e.g., compass). These are not toys, but for a 7 year old, they could be used to explore with and see what they can measure, and other uses. On-line, you can't mess around with protractors, for example, but a young child can use one to create all sorts of things. I would think that exploration of the world around us is what we're trying to achieve through mathematics, not simply getting a list of questions answered. 

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Wow, you all have given me such great tips! 

I have looked at singapore and BA, but I'll be honest, I don't think I can teach them to him because they teach in a way that really, really confuses me! I am not mathy and I don't understand a lot of conceptual concepts (I was homeschooled but my parents did not teach us school or set aside learning time so I learned what I do by myself) so I can't give him strategies to solve it when I don't get it. Well I guess I could, but with all the stress in school and at home I'm not sure I could handle it. This is going to take some research, ugh!

 

Mike in SA "Sounds like you've got a BA/AOPS kid.  You might try BA 3 just to see"

I'm not sure what AOPS means? Does it BA mean beast academy?

 

Kbutton, yes there is a lot of frustration and I do think I need a behaviorist of some kind....this is all so new I feel lost :001_unsure:  

 

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I have one that sounds JUST like that. She just turned 8. While she has siblings on the spectrum, from what I can tell she's very neurotypical. She's also very stubborn and prefers the path of least resistance.

 

 

She's mostly used Horizons math, and reacted like fire and ice, much like you described in your OP. Horizons is spiral like Abeka, but has a different feel to it, and less drill. This school year I put Math in Focus 3 in the closet and let her race ahead in Horizons 3 until it was "too easy and super stupid." When math couldn't be done without drama again I switched her to Math in Focus. The approach is very different from Horizons and she thrived immediately. She flew through that book for a couple months until rather suddenly it was stupid and the balking was back. So I shelved it and handed Horizons back to her. By that point Horizons was like her old faithful and she literally hugged the book. We ended up skipping lessons and hopping around to get her back to a place with appropriate challenge, and she did great. Until one day it was stupid again. See a theme? :laugh:   Since redundant sections are getting skipped and/or compacted with every switch she's going to end up finishing both of them in one school year easily enough.

 

MiF tells us to use a base 10 block set on occasion. DD/2nd has zero problem visualizing the concept and explaining it back to me, so we've skipped it every time. Horizons assigns some manipulatives in the TM, which I never bother to check except for the answer key. If DD ever failed to grasp what they were teaching I'd just dig them out then.

 

DD is quick to say she doesn't like math, but she makes her own problems on whiteboards for fun all the time. Every day this week she's brought one to me with a long division problem she created and asked me to see if it was right.

 

eta: We tried Beast Academy. DD/2nd did the first chapter of 3A and adamantly refused to look at the book ever again.

This is kind of the pattern we have been doing this year too! He gets so tired of things so I switch and then he comes to point that he is frustrated so we go back and it's all good for awhile!

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BA is Beast Academy; AOPS is Art of Problem Solving (the makers of BA). I wouldn't recommend rushing to AOPS - it needs a bit of mathematical maturity.  However, if prealgebra comes & goes way too early, it's time to break out AOPS Prealgebra for a second round.  It's the absolute best published curriculum there is for math today, but it is NOT for everybody - it is hard, and doesn't give sufficient repetition for some.

 

 

I listed a number of hands-on tools for math as well (e.g., compass). These are not toys, but for a 7 year old, they could be used to explore with and see what they can measure, and other uses. On-line, you can't mess around with protractors, for example, but a young child can use one to create all sorts of things. I would think that exploration of the world around us is what we're trying to achieve through mathematics, not simply getting a list of questions answered. 

 

Not saying this is right or wrong, but for these kids, answering a list of questions is not the point.  They're exploring abstractions, which is why manipulatives (tangible items) is not of any interest.  For some kids, tools may just point out what is obvious to them.  Tools needed for geometry may or may not be different, as they serve a very specific mathematical purpose.

 

Some kids are very concrete, and manipulatives can work wonders.  We use them when we tutor kids and have found them helpful.  Our older boy (also a nonspecific ASD spectrum kid) intuits so rapidly that we would run away in frustration when forced to "touch" anything more than necessary.  For him, we always give him theory first, then circle back to the beginning for practice and application.  He used the geometry tools very begrudgingly because he had to.

 

For our younger, he doesn't mind manipulatives, but doesn't need them at all to explore math.  He would explore the tool for possible misuses - not for any math revealed. Math itself is a tool for him, to be created, molded, and utilized for whatever purpose suits him. He used geometry tools for making holes in the walls, and used his pants for capturing conjectures.  Very different kids...

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BA is Beast Academy; AOPS is Art of Problem Solving (the makers of BA). I wouldn't recommend rushing to AOPS - it needs a bit of mathematical maturity.  However, if prealgebra comes & goes way too early, it's time to break out AOPS Prealgebra for a second round.  It's the absolute best published curriculum there is for math today, but it is NOT for everybody - it is hard, and doesn't give sufficient repetition for some.

 

 

 

Not saying this is right or wrong, but for these kids, answering a list of questions is not the point.  They're exploring abstractions, which is why manipulatives (tangible items) is not of any interest.  For some kids, tools may just point out what is obvious to them.  Tools needed for geometry may or may not be different, as they serve a very specific mathematical purpose.

 

Some kids are very concrete, and manipulatives can work wonders.  We use them when we tutor kids and have found them helpful.  Our older boy (also a nonspecific ASD spectrum kid) intuits so rapidly that we would run away in frustration when forced to "touch" anything more than necessary.  For him, we always give him theory first, then circle back to the beginning for practice and application.  He used the geometry tools very begrudgingly because he had to.

 

For our younger, he doesn't mind manipulatives, but doesn't need them at all to explore math.  He would explore the tool for possible misuses - not for any math revealed. Math itself is a tool for him, to be created, molded, and utilized for whatever purpose suits him. He used geometry tools for making holes in the walls, and used his pants for capturing conjectures.  Very different kids...

 

Thank you for breaking that down! He is exactly like you described in the bolded part. I'll look at Beast academy again, I think we will have to get caught up on a few things before he could start it but it may be what he needs. thank for replying back :0)

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Wow, you all have given me such great tips! 

I have looked at singapore and BA, but I'll be honest, I don't think I can teach them to him because they teach in a way that really, really confuses me! I am not mathy and I don't understand a lot of conceptual concepts (I was homeschooled but my parents did not teach us school or set aside learning time so I learned what I do by myself) so I can't give him strategies to solve it when I don't get it. Well I guess I could, but with all the stress in school and at home I'm not sure I could handle it. This is going to take some research, ugh!

 

Mike in SA "Sounds like you've got a BA/AOPS kid.  You might try BA 3 just to see"

I'm not sure what AOPS means? Does it BA mean beast academy?

 

Kbutton, yes there is a lot of frustration and I do think I need a behaviorist of some kind....this is all so new I feel lost :001_unsure:  

 

I have not used BA or AOPS, but I've considered it. I think it's worth a look for you. You would learn together. :-) 

 

I think you could (when things are more stable) potentially use Singapore even without the background, but it would be a learning curve. It's a good age to switch him for Singapore, and TMs would teach you a lot. I think whatever you do, the math is going to be an adjustment and so is the ASD, but you can do this (whatever "this" ends up being, lol!)! There are a lot of places online to work through conceptual math through videos as well-- www.educationunboxed.com, Khan Academy, etc. Education Unboxed uses manipulatives, but if this is for YOU to learn conceptually, you would not necessarily need to present it to him exactly the same way. Also, my ASD son doesn't use many manipulatives (he likes fraction manips), he doesn't mind demonstrations with them from time to time. It's always situational.

 

Please feel free to post some things on the Learning Challenges board--we have a lot of 2e questions on there. That's a good place to ask behavioral questions.

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BA is Beast Academy; AOPS is Art of Problem Solving (the makers of BA). I wouldn't recommend rushing to AOPS - it needs a bit of mathematical maturity.  However, if prealgebra comes & goes way too early, it's time to break out AOPS Prealgebra for a second round.  It's the absolute best published curriculum there is for math today, but it is NOT for everybody - it is hard, and doesn't give sufficient repetition for some.

 

 

 

Not saying this is right or wrong, but for these kids, answering a list of questions is not the point.  They're exploring abstractions, which is why manipulatives (tangible items) is not of any interest.  For some kids, tools may just point out what is obvious to them.  Tools needed for geometry may or may not be different, as they serve a very specific mathematical purpose.

 

Some kids are very concrete, and manipulatives can work wonders.  We use them when we tutor kids and have found them helpful.  Our older boy (also a nonspecific ASD spectrum kid) intuits so rapidly that we would run away in frustration when forced to "touch" anything more than necessary.  For him, we always give him theory first, then circle back to the beginning for practice and application.  He used the geometry tools very begrudgingly because he had to.

 

For our younger, he doesn't mind manipulatives, but doesn't need them at all to explore math.  He would explore the tool for possible misuses - not for any math revealed. Math itself is a tool for him, to be created, molded, and utilized for whatever purpose suits him. He used geometry tools for making holes in the walls, and used his pants for capturing conjectures.  Very different kids...

 

I think as a parent, and for planning ahead for the student to be in university working for and with others, being able to slow down and physically show what the process is, either through diagrams, writing the steps, or showing with objects, is really helpful. Of course, the people who can figure things out really quickly don't want to do this, because it slows them down and can be boring and seem like extra work. But this trail of tangible "evidence" of what they're doing is really important, too. As a parent, I like to see what problem solving steps my dc are using to get to the answers. Sometimes their methods are so quick and amazing, but I hadn't thought of doing it, so I'm learning from them. Other times I can see where their methods have failed because of a missed step or incorrect calculation.

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Wow, you all have given me such great tips! 

I have looked at singapore and BA, but I'll be honest, I don't think I can teach them to him because they teach in a way that really, really confuses me! I am not mathy and I don't understand a lot of conceptual concepts (I was homeschooled but my parents did not teach us school or set aside learning time so I learned what I do by myself) so I can't give him strategies to solve it when I don't get it. Well I guess I could, but with all the stress in school and at home I'm not sure I could handle it. This is going to take some research, ugh!

 

 

Beast Academy would be wonderful for you, as there are excellent descriptions of different problem solving strategies in the back of each practice book. There are also "hints" written out to give the student if they need a little push in the right direction. I have learned so much from going through the BA books with my dc. I'm getting better and better at solving the much more challenging problems found in math contests. It just gives some excellent tools for approaching different kinds of problems in a fun and gradual way.

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I think as a parent, and for planning ahead for the student to be in university working for and with others, being able to slow down and physically show what the process is, either through diagrams, writing the steps, or showing with objects, is really helpful. Of course, the people who can figure things out really quickly don't want to do this, because it slows them down and can be boring and seem like extra work. But this trail of tangible "evidence" of what they're doing is really important, too. As a parent, I like to see what problem solving steps my dc are using to get to the answers. Sometimes their methods are so quick and amazing, but I hadn't thought of doing it, so I'm learning from them. Other times I can see where their methods have failed because of a missed step or incorrect calculation.

ASD + forced slowdown = very miserable parents. ;)

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My daughter has described BA/AOPS as the only math textbooks that explain the WHYs of math, rather than the HOWs of math. The problems and explanations within the texts and solution manuals are very helpful in providing a deep understanding of concepts.

 

On the subject of manipulatives, I think some kids (such as my daughter) are capable of manipulating numbers and shapes quite effectively with their mind's eye. It is good to be able to demonstrate understanding with a set of manipulatives occasionally, but having to use them when they don't need them is like asking my daughter to "show her work" for single digit addition.

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I think people who don't have experience teaching or living with ASD kids are talking out of their (you fill in the blank) when they lecture ASD parents on best practices.

 

Hey, maybe through my incorrect assumptions I've helped out the OP with what may not work. You don't have to be an (you fill in the blank). 

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One thing that may work on the "show steps" stage (although possibly for an older kid) is for them to teach someone else. That's been useful here for the stuff that for DD is just plain obvious-she doesn't see a benefit to writing it out or working it out using manipulatives, but will do so in explaining to another kid who is struggling, and actually, she's pretty good at it. It's a useful check for me, too, in seeing how she's reasoning and that she hasn't found a short cut that only works in some cases.

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If you also feel like you "don't get it" then be up front with him. Have him try to show you the way he sees the world. I am technically not ASD, but both my mother and my brother rather hardcore. As a result of a workaholic father, I come off really quirky. I have very little concept of normal. Math was my language. Being able to express the npmath to another person would have been such a Godsend. Even better, explain your way to him too. There is nothing better than knowing a bunch of different ways to solve a problem, even if for no other reason than to realize no one way is "right."

 

Let your Ds know that there are standard algorithms but that he does not need to know them right now. Let him play with the abstraction. At 11, my Ds has just gotten to the point he will sometimes use the "normal" way. Most often he still choses his own. Your son has plenty of time.

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I listed a number of hands-on tools for math as well (e.g., compass). These are not toys, but for a 7 year old, they could be used to explore with and see what they can measure, and other uses. On-line, you can't mess around with protractors, for example, but a young child can use one to create all sorts of things. I would think that exploration of the world around us is what we're trying to achieve through mathematics, not simply getting a list of questions answered. 

 

I think that for some kids (my DS7 included, for sure), the physical exploration of the world around him is just not what math is about right now.  For him the understanding comes through the abstract - he can apply it to concrete items, but it doesn't aid his understanding, just takes time.

 

It's kind of like kids who can memorize and understand the anatomy of a frog without dissecting it, or get physics concepts without doing actual experiments - for whatever reason, the path to understanding comes through the language of the science and not through physical experiences of it.

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And, I think the frog example is a good one for another reason. For some kids, being asked to take apart a frog, or a math concept, actually is a violation of their view of the world. For my DD, a frog isn't a bunch of component parts, but the living breathing, croaking, egg laying vertebrate. And a math concept isn't all that different. To her, it's a whole organism, and being asked to deconstruct it, especially at 6-7 years old, was like being asked to kill the frog. She just couldn't, wouldn't do it. It didn't mean she didn't love anatomy books and the digital frog app, but that, to her, that was all secondary and didn't affect the real thing.

 

At age 11, she can see that there are reasons to see detailed anatomy inside the frog, and detailed breakdown inside an equation, but she still doesn't like it. There's a wrongness to her that comes in deconstructing something that is so perfect and alive in and of itself.

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And, I think the frog example is a good one for another reason. For some kids, being asked to take apart a frog, or a math concept, actually is a violation of their view of the world. For my DD, a frog isn't a bunch of component parts, but the living breathing, croaking, egg laying vertebrate. And a math concept isn't all that different. To her, it's a whole organism, and being asked to deconstruct it, especially at 6-7 years old, was like being asked to kill the frog. She just couldn't, wouldn't do it. It didn't mean she didn't love anatomy books and the digital frog app, but that, to her, that was all secondary and didn't affect the real thing.

 

At age 11, she can see that there are reasons to see detailed anatomy inside the frog, and detailed breakdown inside an equation, but she still doesn't like it. There's a wrongness to her that comes in deconstructing something that is so perfect and alive in and of itself.

 

Thanks for this - I hadn't really understood *why* DS7 understands the parts only in the context of his understanding of the whole.

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My child has not been diagnosed, but just "gets" math in the way that you and Mike in SA describe. Around that age he definitely saw writing down the steps as a waste of time. Manipulatives just got in the way.

 

He really enjoyed Life of Fred. It is fun and has no manipulatives or activities to annoy him. Occasionally, though, LOF doesn't explain things as well as I think they should be explained. I really think BA does a better job of explaining concepts directly to the student. But for any math curriculum, remember that if they need additional information, Khan Academy is a great free resource.

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Ha, I know this is actually an old thread, but just wanted to finally weigh in...

 

My kid is probably bright + ADHD-Inattentive (some people have pointed out ASD behavior as well, which I see, but I'm not sure he would get dx ASD). The thing I have to be careful about with him is providing the right intellectual level, but not taxing his weaknesses, which shows up in things like processing speed, sequencing, verbal reasoning, etc. So yes, we've had long periods of swinging between the "this is baby stuff! why do you always make me do things I already know!" and "this is too hard! it's impossible! why do you make me do such hard stuff!" The "baby stuff" is easy because he does already conceptually understand it. The "impossible stuff" is hard because it's a huge struggle for him to work through the directions/sequences/steps to learn something he doesn't conceptually understand yet.

 

Whole-to-parts curriculum is usually recommended is cases like this, which I understand. But at the same time, he does need to be led through the itty-bitty steps, because he can't originate them himself (well, sometimes, but usually not very well).

 

So practically speaking, the seems-to-be-working groove we're in right now for math is that he free-reads the BA guides to his heart's content (he has all but 5A right now), we do a little bit of BA everyday, we also do a little bit of procedural math everyday, and a couple times a week we do big-picture math of some sort, sometimes a documentary like the Story of 1, sometimes a book like How Many Socks Make a Pair, and maybe some math contest problems in there somewhere too. It drives me a bit crazy - like driving from NY to LA in small spirals crazy - but we're (slowly) moving along, and he's happy.

 

Also, another thing I've noticed with him is that depth/gifted/enriched/pickyour"rigorous"adjective is best done on grade level. For example, he did FLL 1&2 in a few months in 1st grade. So for 2nd I thought MCT Island would be great - harder, also minimal writing, whole-picture, and so on. It didn't work out so well. He could do it, but he didn't really get it, kwim? So I put it away. Since that time I've resigned myself to the fact that CM-style is the WORST thing for him, and I thought the story format was what tripped him up. Well, yes, it does make it more difficult for him, but recently my DH brought Grammar Island out and did it with him, and surprise, he got it. He got the jokes, why the characters....pause, and so on. I was confused about the difference, until it occurred to me that MCT actually is a gifted program for 3rd graders, and he's now in 3rd grade, so there you go. Likewise, we had taken a hiatus from BA for much of last year, and when we picked up 3C again in January he started whipping through it, then was racing through 3D. I started making elaborate plans for getting the 4 practice books out of their storage location in another country, pronto. But then we hit Estimation, and it called upon all his weaknesses, and he got stuck. In the space of a few days I went from counting down the end of book in weeks to months. But, you know what, it's okay if he doesn't finish 3D until the first week in June, he's in 3rd grade after all, and BA really is hard.

 

On the other hand, he really is itching to move forward. This is where the remedial/procedural/no-grade-level-listed recs come in. Things like Fred, Key to..., Khan, and etc. They quickly run through the procedures and let him play around with fun things like negative numbers without taxing his weaknesses (since he does BA, he is usually heard wondering "but why does it work like that?" He'll get the reason why at some point, but he sometimes works it out on his own).

 

When it comes to subjects which are directly impacted by his weaknesses, such as handwriting or reading, what he's doing is remedial or slightly behind "normal"  grade level. Targeted instruction in "how do you make an inference?" or similar discrete skills. After identifying his particular areas of weaknesses, and working on them directly, he's quick to improve. But making the identification, and then know how to work on them, is difficult. I have found really good ideas and help by reading through many old threads on the LD board.

 

So, at the end of the day, what he does for school each day ranges from stunningly simple to quite complex. It's quite bewildering (to me!), and it is hard to find that groove, and how to stay in the groove as things progress. I don't mean to sound pessimistic, I just want to encourage you to have patience and not let frustration overtake you! It's not a race, teach the kid you have each day, be flexible, and all other maxims that get repeated around here are doubly true for 2e kids. Doesn't make them any less difficult, lol, but they are helpful to keep in mind.

 

hth.

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My son, who sounds somewhat like yours, loved Horizon's math. He also loves Memoria Press products. I do not use either one with my other children. But for that one, he loves them and zoomed through. He is on high school geometry now though.

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SarahW, that is a thorough description of my son's learning. Pretty much to a T. 

 

Oh.  :blushing:

 

I'm now going to stalk every post you ever wrote, okay?

 

Ha, no but seriously, I'm totally muddling through with figuring this out. I track down all leads for information and ideas!

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My son, who sounds somewhat like yours, loved Horizon's math. He also loves Memoria Press products. I do not use either one with my other children. But for that one, he loves them and zoomed through. He is on high school geometry now though.

 

What did you do from MP? I keep looking at them, and picked up a few books, but haven't done them yet. I drool over CM/WTM/Great books discussion style, and like many others here biased against the fill-in-the-blank style of many of the MP books. But then I have to remember that this isn't about what I think is appealing, it's what works for him, and he is so not like me.

 

Mostly, I keep wondering if the "dull" vocab work in their lit guides would be perfect for him. He does not glean the meaning of new words from their context (that whole inferencing thing...), but turns up his nose to learning a list of words out-of-context. But he does seem to immediately put new words I've defined for him (I'm a walking dictionary these days) into long-term memory, soo.... I feel I should be doing something there, but not sure if MP is the thing I'm looking for.

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Sounds quite a bit like my DD7. We're still waiting on ASD eval, but she's dx'd SPD and ADHD. She loves math, so long as it's kept exactly where she needs it. If I dare ask her something that she absolutely has down, she gets very irritated. She does not like repetition. But if it's too hard, or is worded in a way that *sounds* too hard, she melts down. Singapore has been a pretty good fit for her, as long as I pay close attention to the lessons and how long we're spending on things. Multiplication facts for her means get through the lesson quickly with minimal manipulatives and don't ask more than a few questions to be sure she gets it and then let her do the fun looking worksheets. Time, length, weight.....for her that means get out a few things to work with and take my time to make sure when we get to the worksheet she doesn't feel lost or overwhelmed. A second lesson in a row that doesn't cover new ground, I usually save the worksheets for waiting for an appt, long car rides, maybe for here and there over the weekend, not a whole math lesson devoted to it.

 

She really likes BA and we've dabbled in it a bit, but I don't know if she's ready for it full force maturity-wise, so I'm trying to keep it slow with that so we don't hit a wall where she gets frustrated and turned off from the curriculum. That happened with Right Start which I thought would be so great for her and ended up not working out. Math went from something she loved, to something that caused her to hide behind furniture and cry when I said the word. All because a few lessons on subtraction weren't approached in a way that made sense to her and she got really upset. Even when I set the book aside and taught her the concept a different way and she got it fine, she lost it if that book came back out.

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Oh.  :blushing:

 

I'm now going to stalk every post you ever wrote, okay?

 

Ha, no but seriously, I'm totally muddling through with figuring this out. I track down all leads for information and ideas!

 

Lol, that might be more frightening that enlightening!

 

The best thing I did for getting the academic side of things was to read Dierdre Lovecky's book Different Minds. It's dry, but it's helpful. One thing I had been wondering is if he learned whole to parts or parts to whole. Lovecky suggests that 2e ASD kiddos need both, with whole to parts coming first. I have found this to be true.

 

We also embraced ADHD meds. It took the highs and lows of focus, attention, etc. from looking like the Himalayas and deep sea trenches to a set of rolling hills. It helped him accomplish more and feel like he had more control, and that curbed a lot of frustration and anxiety. OT was helpful, VT was even more so--OT would not have worked well if we had not done VT first (he had developmental vision issues). 

 

You might post on the Learning Challenges board too. Lots of 2e represented there as well.

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Lol, that might be more frightening that enlightening!

 

The best thing I did for getting the academic side of things was to read Dierdre Lovecky's book Different Minds. It's dry, but it's helpful. One thing I had been wondering is if he learned whole to parts or parts to whole. Lovecky suggests that 2e ASD kiddos need both, with whole to parts coming first. I have found this to be true.

 

We also embraced ADHD meds. It took the highs and lows of focus, attention, etc. from looking like the Himalayas and deep sea trenches to a set of rolling hills. It helped him accomplish more and feel like he had more control, and that curbed a lot of frustration and anxiety. OT was helpful, VT was even more so--OT would not have worked well if we had not done VT first (he had developmental vision issues). 

 

You might post on the Learning Challenges board too. Lots of 2e represented there as well.

 

Right after I posted about stalking you, I read your post in the LD thread about whole-parts and then parts-whole. Yes, I didn't think of putting it that way, but that's what I've pretty much concluded as well.

 

TL;DR of my long post above: What kbutton said.

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