spinoff...structure and behavioral/discipline issues

[caedmyn]

This is a spinoff of the "character issues" thread.  Someone said something about many problems responding to structure, accountability, and follow through.  This is what I need with my bunch of kids (DD-10, DSs ages 7, 5, and 3).  DD has some ADHD-like symptoms, primarily being super easily distracted, both by outside influences (noises, things around her) and thoughts in her own head.  It's hard to keep her on track with her schoolwork and it takes a lot longer than I think it should.  DS1 has been a very difficult child from birth.  He is intense, impulsive, and very strong-willed.  He also has some ADHD-like symptoms, including being very easily distracted (mostly by whatever's going on in his head) and moving constantly/fiddling with everything.  He also has a processing delay--if he's interested in something or thinking about something, it takes him a good five seconds to mentally be able to switch between whatever he's doing/thinking about and whatever is being said to him.  He has always been super curious and into everything.  We went on a trip to Disneyland last week and I couldn't believe (well I could, knowing him) the stuff he noticed and had to mess with, that my other kids, and all the other kids there, either didn't notice or weren't interested in fiddling with.  He is completely untrustworthy.  He very often breaks the rules, seems impervious to all forms of discipline, and I sometimes wonder if he ever thinks about the consequences before doing anything.  If I send him downstairs to his room to get dressed, he may decide to raid the storage room for interesting food items and stash them in his room for later (this is not a hunger issue, 100% certain of that).  Or he may decide to randomly dump soap in the washing machine, or empty all the hand soap into the bathroom sink and soak his feet, or any number of things that are not what he's supposed to be doing.  DS2 is also strong-willed, extremely active, and very sneaky/dishonest, but no attention issues.  The amount of trouble he and DS1 get in together is mind-boggling.  DS3 is, well, a typical 3 YO boy.  He is not strong-willed and seems much more "typical" than his brothers.

 

All of my kids really need a lot more structure, DD to focus on her schoolwork, the middle two to keep them out of trouble, and the 3 YO because he's, well, 3.  I have been trying, and failing, for YEARS to provide enough structure.  I am great at planning, not so great at follow-through.  I cannot for the life of me stick to a strict schedule.  We have routines, and they work fine for getting things done, but do not provide enough structure or keep my middle two busy enough to keep them out of trouble.  I have some attention issues myself due to health problems, and have difficulty focusing on more than one thing at a time or being real aware of what's going on around me.  What can I do to add the structure and busy-ness these kids need?

[HomeAgain]

They say it takes 30 days to solidify a new habit.  I'd ramp up slowly - do you have a morning routine?  Midday?  Evening?  If not, start with one of those and structure it more carefully for 30 days.  Tweak, and add a second routine to your life.

[EndOfOrdinary]

A couple of years ago we did an entire "life cleanse." For six weeks we did NOTHING outside the house other than church and school related activities. Each Staurday we purged a room of the house and threw away or put away into storage all but a few very desired items. (Simplicity Parenting is a great book to read for this. I was highly skeptical, but after onky two weeks the results were dramatic.). After the six weeks, we openly discussed which activities we truely missed and which we were just doing out of a feeling of social obligation.

 

We gave up homeschool co op and play group. Ds joined a MineCraft group of boys through the library and a Magic card group at the hobby shop instead. We decided to take a couple of vacations throughout the year rather than a giant one in the summer. Ds got ride of a mountain of toys and I purged so many clothes and kitchen things. It was amazing.

 

You might try it. Eliminating the environmental stuff really helped the emotional tension and allowed me much greater focus. It helped me hold lines more strongly and feel better about myself as a person.

[PeterPan]

EoO's life cleanse thing actually makes a lot of sense.  My ds has some pretty over the top behavior challenges, and someone was suggesting one way we might handle them (we're working on getting professional advice) is to reduce everything, as in axe everything, to get him back to a point of stable.  One of the biggest reasons that would work is because he has problems with transitions.  It sounds like you're saying one of your dc might struggle with transitions.  

 

The short answer to your question is visual schedules.  I use one with ds, and it helps me immensely.  The kit I use from Teachers Pay Teachers comes with both picture cards and words.  The normal procedure is to use pictures, transition that over to words, and ultimately transition that to a written list or student planner.  So it's more what each student is ready for.  My dd responds well to lists and clear expectations.  *I* need lists to keep up with things.

 

The other thing I do is use alarms and timers rabidly.  I set alarms for EVERYTHING in my life.  My ds has his own device (a kindle) with his alarms.  My dd has her own devices (ipad, phone, computer) all with alarms that sync across all the devices.  I have the family calendars synced, so I can modify, set alarms for events, know what they're scheduling, etc.

 

With the amount of ADHD you've got going, you would benefit from OT evals for the kids and some home activities daily to get that reigned in.  For instance, School Moves ($10 on amazon) or BalavisX (also buy book on amazon) would both work for your kids and be easy for you to implement with a group.  Sitting Like a Frog (inexpensive on amazon) is easy to implement (turn on the cd) and highly effective for mindfulness.  Just 10 minutes of mindfulness can bump EF (executive function) by 30%!!!  Seriously.  This results in calmer, less impulsive kids.  Try it.  They get baths then the turn on the cd as a group and all sit and do the cd for 10 minutes, done.  Or the do it each in their rooms before bed.  Whatever.  But these little things like mindfulness before bed, School Moves/Focus Moves in the morning, BalavisX after lunch, they could get you the bump you need to chill some of this.  

 

Make sure that with your schedules you bring in some choice or rewards.  Like each card done without complaining (or whatever your standard is) gets them a token and the tokens earn a reward for the day (small candy, figures/toys from treasure chest, whatever).  

 

You get what you inspect.  It's just reality.  Alarms and clearly written plans make it easier for you to stay on track and to inspect.  It took me a LOT of years to accept the discipline of the visual schedule.  Remember, I taught dd for 10 years without one!  But even *I* learned to accept it.  I wanted to be so spontaneous, so flexible.  You can do it, and you can like it.  For me, I like the visual schedules now because I can be flexible WITHIN that structure.  Then I have the best of both worlds.  If my card says Teacher Table, I can do anything I want for Teacher Table!  It's just that I'm going to do Teacher Table when the card says and not do math or go on some rabbit trail.  And if we want to toss the cards for the day and declare it a day of only choice cards, FINE.  We do that too.  We have days of nothing but Knex, yes!  But we know the plan and we know we can get back on the plan.  With that many kids, that consistency of everyone knowing generally where they're supposed to be will help.

 

Btw, visual schedules are a standard tool.  They're in my ds' IEP from school.  They're something that they know helps kids who struggle.  For me, it was like ok if this is what they would give him in school, then *I* need to give him that level of support.  These are evidence-based practices, best practices of yes these work, these help kids with executive function issues, impulsivity issues, etc.

Edited March 11, 2016 by OhElizabeth

[caedmyn]

That is very helpful, OhElizabeth.  I put School Moves on hold at the library.  I need to get an easy-to-use timer again and get back to using that. I actually would love to be very structured...I just can't seem to stick to it.  I am so not spontaneous or flexible (just ask my DH!).

 

Can you link the visual schedule you got from Teachers Pay Teachers?  I looked there and there are so many different ones.

 

I've read Simplicity Parenting several times.  We have simplified a ton, and we do very little outside of church-related activities.  Nothing regular, just plan a playdate once or maybe twice a month and an occasional appointment for something or other, and that's about it.  I keep thinking there must be more I can cut/get rid of somewhere, but there really isn't much extra at all.

[PeterPan]

Ok, I'm going to apologize in advance if these are not what you need.  My ds started last school year with an ADHD diagnosis, which was how his first IEP was made.  (He's homeschooled but has an IEP.)  He now has confirmed ASD diagnosis, so we're getting his IEP changed.  So I've got all my years of teaching dd (just ADHD) and now ds (ADHD + ASD).  But I LOVE these tools.  They come with multiple levels in the kit and are super flexible.  You can use a different color from each kid.  You can use those colors to color code everything for the dc (folders, pens, desk strips, notebooks, etc.) to keep it easier for them.  I use multiple of the products, so I'll put some links

 

Autism Pre-K - Elementary Classroom Visual Bundle Solid Colors (special ed)

 

Structured Work System Starter Kit for Autism--Elementary Version

 

Thumbs Up: Token Systems for Behavior Management (autism / special education)  There's a free version of these if you look.

 

https://flic.kr/s/aHskmyxzcN This is a Flickr album with some pictures of those things.  

 

I don't have pics to share, but over the years I've made my dd a LOT of checklists.  Usually we've done them as some kind of table.  Sometimes complex, sometimes simpler.  Right now I'm really keen on the visual schedule to drive us to the location and then at the location have the work be sort of idiot proof (open and do the next thing).

 

I put a link for a structured work system.  You'll pictures on my Flickr feed.  This can be a terrific option for our kids.  You can use it to get instructional control or just to give yourself a break!  Or use it creatively, like maybe having it be bins they do when they're finished and they work toward their prize!  So then you're rewarding hard work and making good use of your time.  :)  A structured work system is independent work.  So for me, I have a card in the main visual schedule that says Independent Work, and that tells us to go to our Indendent Work station at work through the bins.  You do the bin, pull the tab and place on the strip.  Before working you select a reward from the card options so you knjow what you're working for.  They're kind of cutely generic, like a game, ipad time, a tasty treat, that kind of thing.  

 

I'm pretty rogue, and for me this is structure I can live with.  Remember, if you don't like the cards or you want to re-order, RIP IT OFF!  It's ok to let the system be flexible.  I like that it's only velcro.  It's not ink, and if we want to change the order we do.  

 

One thing I haven't done that you probably will need to, honestly, is to make a chart with the plan for each day.  You need a master chart that shows all your kids and all their card schedules.  You could make 4 strips hanging down a filing cabinet and take a picture of all 4 strips as they should look on Monday.  Then a picture of how they should be for Tues, Wed, etc.  Then just flip to the correct day's picture (in a page protector, hanging above the strips), have everyone update their plan, and voila you're all ready to work!  The ripping is a very visceral feedback, and you can let them have choices too to improve compliance and enthusiasm.  :)  

 

 

It doesn't matter what you do as long as *you* are comfortable with the structure.  You can make checklists, spreadsheets, do visual schedules, do workbox drawers, whatever.  I got a tower to do drawers, and I realized it wasn't complex enough to handle what we do.  I'm also not one to deal with that filling/refilling thing.  For me, stepping up to professional tools, things teachers actually use, was WAY easier, mercy.

 

[PeterPan]

For School Moves/Focus Moves, the ebook one I have had picture charts to go with each exercise.  I printed them onto pages, put in sleeves in a notebook, and used them with ds.  You can swank them up too by adding metronome work to the exercises.  I definitely like SM/FM.  

 

My ds also had retained primitive reflexes.  Actually he had more going on, lol.  For him, OT was essential.  A good OT eval might turn up more on your kids, so I wouldn't use SM/FM as an excuse not to get an OT eval, if that makes sense.  The reflexes are easy to work on as homework.  Our OT has given us things like Therapeutic Listening ($$$$$), a scooterboard, etc.  

 

Your library might have Sitting Still like a Frog.  It's definitely worth trying.  Do they have BalavisX?  I think what you're going to find that each thing gives you a % improvement.  But if you add up enough 10%s, you eventually get a more functional dc, kwim?

Edited March 13, 2016 by OhElizabeth