Is ELTL independent at all?

[sunshineslp]

Can a 3rd grader do it independently at all? Not completely, but semi-independently? I'm looking for something along those lines. I'm also considering CLE but I keep hearing how great ELTL is so I was curious:) thanks!

 

 

Homeschooling mama of 4... Preschool 3, preschool 4, 1st, and 2nd:)

[Susie in MS]

Here are some considerations. I speak about Book 4, so there may be some differences.

 

 

The book is huge at an inch and a quarter thick and the size of a sheet of paper long and wide. This may or may not be an issue for your child to handle.

 

He is to read (or be read to) a chapter out of the assigned book. This would depend on his skill level. They are classics and well written so may be hard for some younger children.

 

The English lessons are well spelled out, but seem to be easy to breeze over for some kids. I think because they are not set apart by a color block or something. You child may need to be reminded to read the lesson well.

 

After the poem and folk tale (or fable ) there will be a lesson where the child "plays" with words or sentences. If you are not watching he may skip them without you knowing. Then there is the dictation passage which will need to be called out after he studies it. 

 

There is  a picture study every 2 weeks. YOu will be needed for that. 

 

It sounds like I am putting down on the program, but I'm not. I REALLY like it and feel it is well done. These are just issues you may have if you want your child to work independently. You know your child and what you can expect of him in these areas. 

[Sammish]

I'm in the Yahoo group, and I'm almost positive the author has said she has her own kids do it independently, so yes, it can be done. I believe the way it would work is the child listens to the literature chapters via Librivox, and then reads the day's assignment and does it themselves. The parent looks over their copywork, listens to narrations (every other week) and leads pictures study (on weeks where there aren't narrations). 

 

So as long as you're checking in periodically to make sure they're actually doing and understanding the grammar bits, I don't see why they couldn't do it on their own. 

[TheAttachedMama]

We just started the program.   We do a portion of the program independently.  

 

In our quiet reading time (in the afternoon), my kids read the literature portion for the NEXT day by themselves.  So they have the reading assignment completed before we meet for our lessons in the morning.   I have found that having the kids read these selections using immersion reading on their kindle works REALLY, REALLY well with this method.   (That is where the book is read to you by a professional narrator and it highlights the words in the ebook as you follow along.)   The reason this works really well is that many of these older, vintage books use words that the kids don't hear that often.  That is great for increasing their vocabulary.   However, often if we don't know what the word sounds like, we can end up pronouncing it incorrectly when we only read it.  So being able to HEAR the story while you read it is really nice for this reason.    Additionally, the Charlotte Mason method relies heavily on actually SEEING the words on the page.   Ambleside is always warning people not to rely too heavily on audiobooks alone.   And I agree with that advice.  I have found that seeing the text really helps them when it comes to spelling, copywork, dictation, and the exercises.   NOW---I could just read the books aloud to them while they follow along.   However, I have two different levels of ELTL going on (and a crazy 2 year old)---so I will gladly splurge and spend $5 on the ebook/audiobook combo to off load some work.   :)

 

In the morning, we meet for our lessons together.   (This is the part I don't think would work well independently.)   I read the grammar information to them from the book and we discuss.  (Or do a picture study.)   Then I read the poetry selection (and discuss).   Then I have them read aloud the fable (for fluency practice)....then I have them give their BEST oral composition/narration.    I give feed back and encouragement.   Sometimes I give them challenges.   (This time, I want you to avoid starting every sentence with, "And then..."  ;)  )  Next, I do the dictation and the exercise with them.   THEN, we go over their copywork/transcription.    I have my kids read it outloud.    We go over the "whys" of the punctuation and capitalization, etc.

 

Later, they do their copy work independently.  And I check it before it can be marked completed on their checklist.    If there are errors, I try to have my kids find them by themselves.   I will hand it back and say, "There are three mistakes.   Lets see if you can find them."   That type of thing.  

Edited March 11, 2016 by TheAttachedMama

[sunshineslp]

Attached mama: that's very helpful! What grade are your kids? Is libriovox free? Is the independent work in a workbook?

 

 

Homeschooling mama of 4... Preschool 3, preschool 4, 1st, and 2nd:)

[Holly]

I have a 3rd grader using Level 2.  She listens to the literature reading on Librivox independently.  She isn't a very strong reader yet, so we do the lesson together. Level 2 goes very quickly, so this only takes us 10-15 minutes.  She does the copywork independently.  I find the ELTL PDF workbooks helpful with this, and they like not having to write out the sentences.  My older two (using Levels 4 & 5) are pretty independent with it.  I just have to check their work and give them a bit of help once in awhile.  I also supervise their memory work to make sure it's getting done.  I sometimes do their lessons with them to make sure they are getting it.

[TheAttachedMama]

Attached mama: that's very helpful! What grade are your kids? Is libriovox free? Is the independent work in a workbook?

 

 

Homeschooling mama of 4... Preschool 3, preschool 4, 1st, and 2nd:)

 

I have a 7 year old in 2nd grade doing ELTL 2 and a 9 year old in 3rd grade doing ELTL 3.    My kids finished FLL 3 and Treasured Conversations earlier this year.  So we started ELTL a few weeks ago to finish out the year and take us into the summer.  (We school year round.)   It is supposed to only be done 3 times per week, but my kids actually have been asking to do it everyday because they like the readings and the fables.  So we've made a lot of progress through the book in only a few weeks.   :)

 

The grammar is mostly review to my 9 year old.  However, my 7 year old never retained much from FLL.  (She is young, and was mostly just tagging along).  She has all of the definitions and lists memorized, but isn't so great at actually applying what she knows about grammar.   HOWEVER, I am glad I placed them where I did in ELTL because there is so much stuff that I didn't cover with them in those books.  

 

To answer your questions about libravox / free ebooks:

 

Most (all?) of the books she chooses are in the public domain.   That means that you will be able to find a free ebook to read online.   Most (all?) of the books are also on libravox.  That means you will also be able to get a free audiobook of it online.    

 

SO--if you don't care if your kids both see and hear the book--you could just have them read the ebook or just have them listen to the libravox recording.   (Both seeing and hearing the book is just my own philosophy based on Charlotte Mason's writings and how well my own children can read independently.)   I even tried having my kids listen and follow along with the free books, but it didn't work out very well for them because they kept losing their places in the text.   With actual kindle immersion reading, it highlights the word as it is read and automatically turns the page so it is very easy to follow along as it is read to you.   

 

Note about libravox:   I use libravox a lot.   However, the thing about libravox is that the narrators reading the books are sort of hit or miss.   Some are REALLY, REALLY, REALLY good.   (Example:  Karen Savage is one of my favorite volunteer readers.)    Other narrators are really not that great.   Some are even nearly impossible for me to understand and mispronounce a lot of words.   (Gosh, that sounds critical and I don't mean it to be.   I am very grateful that those people volunteer their time.   I'm just saying that it doesn't help my children to hear the unknown words pronounced correctly.)   Another thing that is strange is sometimes you have a different narrator for each chapter.  So the voices are constantly changing chapter to chapter.   This doesn't bother me too much...but it drives my kids nuts!   It also seems to bother many adult listeners that I talk to.  

 

Importance of Quality Audiobooks:

 

Another thing I have learned about audiobooks is that the narrator is REALLY important.   Do not underestimate the importance of the quality of the audiobook you give your kids!!   Sometimes a bad narrator can make your kids hate a wonderful, beautifully written book.  Sometimes a poor recording or scratchy background noise can ruin a good story.   And the opposite is true.  Sometimes, a good narrator can make a book you normally wouldn't like suddenly come to life.   As crazy as it sounds, the  narrator can make or break a book.   Especially for young children.   

 

Immersion Reading on the Kindle:

If you happen to own a kindle (even a really old one), the immersion reading is a nice feature to use with ELTL.   Especially if you are going to have your kids do the reading independently.   Not required...but just a nice extra that I personally recommend.     It highlights the words being read and automatically keeps the kid's place.   Plus, the books are read by professional actors who (for the most part) do a really good job or narrating the book.  Actually, if I am honest, they all read aloud much better than I do.  hahaha

 

The thing about immersion reading on a kindle is that you have to buy the book on amazon and the audio on audible.   (See this page for explanation.)   You can't use the free libravox recording.  And only books on audible which say "Whysper synch" next to them work with immersion reading.  (I think every ELTL selection is whyspersynch ready if I am not mistaken.)  But, because the books are in the public domain they are all REALLY cheap on amazon and audible.   Example:   The kindle version of Jungle book is $0.99, and if you own the kindle, you can buy the audible recording for $2.99.   So for about 4 bucks I can have the immersion reading for the book.   I know I can get the libravox version for free, but I feel like this $4 splurge is VERY worth it.  (Again, I have noticed that my rising-4th graders spelling has improved so much the more he is exposed the the actual text from these books.  And his vocabulary is through the roof from hearing these books read. )   Plus, three to four people in our family will probably read and listen to the book at some point...and so it really is a small price to pay for us personally.   (The biggest cost would be a kindle, but you can buy old used kindles for not much online.  That is what we did for Christmas this year for the kids.)  

 

---------------

 

To answer your question about CLE vs. ELTL

 

I've actually purchased CLE and considered using it.   It was at a time in my life when I was feeling VERY burnt out with homeschooling.  (I think last February.  It is always February when I feel this way.) So I had it in my hands, and was all set to use it.   HOWEVER, I ended up sending it back for a refund.  (They have very good customer service btw.)  

 

Why?  Was it a bad program?   No.  It is actually a very thorough grammar program.   Any kid that uses CLE is going to have a really good understanding of grammar.   Plus, you can use it independently.   That is really appealing in February.  hahaha

 

BUT---I ended up realizing that grammar knowledge alone doesn't make you a good writer.  To be a good writer, you need to have a "database of sophisticated language" as Andrew Pudewa says.   :)  To be a good writer, I believe you need to be exposed to copious amounts of beautiful language.   I believe right around my kids age, you need to be read to in large quantities.   To be a good writer, you need interaction and a forward and backward dialogue...so sometimes this isn't the best subject to do independently because a child needs the direct feedback.   (This talk sort of sums up my personal views on raising writers.)  

 

I realized that there is limited time in the day.   And, when you have multiple kids with different needs, you have to make choices about where and what you are going to spend your time on.   I ended up deciding that my time needed to be invested at this stage of the game into solid basics.   Writing is one of those basics.   I found OTHER things for the kids to do independently, but chose to keep language arts one of those key subjects that I invest my time in.  

 

SO---long story short----  Both ELTL and CLE are good programs.   I would look at your day and come up with some sort of time budget.   How much time do you have in your day to work with each of your kids?   What are your priorities at this season of your life?  (Maybe grammar/writing doesn't have to be a priority.  Maybe you can just do copywork this year and pick up ELTL at a higher level later on.  You don't have to do every level.  The grammar stuff is often repeated each year.)   Are there other things you are spending your time on that aren't as important as language arts? (Maybe, maybe not.)   Those are all questions I would consider.   

 

ETA:   Independent Work is just what I call the work my kids do independently.   It is a general term I use to describe everything on their school checklist that they do without me.   It isn't an ELTL term.    ELTL has exercises.   They are in both the actual book and the notebook pages.   The notebook pages are NOT required.   They just have all of the copywork passages and exercises typed out, but you could also write them on the board or have your kid copy them out of the book directly.   Have you downloaded the samples of each??  

Edited March 12, 2016 by TheAttachedMama

[sunshineslp]

Wow... You went above and beyond with that explanation and I thoroughly appreciate it!

 

So- yes, I've looked at the samples. They seem rather mom intensive? I'm trying to visualize how I can use any of it independently. But sometimes I have to have the book in my hands first.

 

I have four kids, right now they are 2nd, 1st, preK, and 3 years old. So next year I'll have a K, 2, and 3. Along with my preschooler. BI am trying to find things that have at least some component of me being able to walk away at some point while they finish their work independently so I can assist another kid. They aren't similar in their abilities so I cannot group them together unfortunately. I don't like that CLE seems so hands off and not really putting the info into real life situations... At least it seems like it? It does seem like ELTL is better at practicing it and using it. Not sure if that makes sense.

 

Why does it confuse me so? So, how does it work? I download the book and do the lessons along with the book? You don't have to read the whole book prior, right? I'd assume one book might last several lessons? I have an iPad but a kindle app... Does that work? Do I understand that you recommend the audible route? So paying for the monthly audible membership?

 

 

Homeschooling mama of 4... Preschool 3, preschool 4, 1st, and 2nd:)

Edited March 12, 2016 by sunshineslp

[sunshineslp]

Oh, and i agree about assessing my time budget. I can already say, most of what I have is mom intensive. We do my fathers world, so bible and social studies is all me. Then math is probably math mammoth and right start.

 

 

Homeschooling mama of 4... Preschool 3, preschool 4, 1st, and 2nd:)

Edited March 12, 2016 by sunshineslp

[hands-on-mama]

Quick question, can you use immersion reading in the iPad kindle app??

[Susie in MS]

 

 I download the book and do the lessons along with the book? You don't have to read the whole book prior, right? I'd assume one book might last several lessons? 

 

Homeschooling mama of 4... Preschool 3, preschool 4, 1st, and 2nd:)

 

At the beginning of each lesson there is assigned the reading a chapter(s) from the book. It is the very first thing on the page after the lesson number and title so easy to miss at first.

 

No, you don't have to pre-read the entire book first.

 

Yes, one book last for many lessons. For instance, there are 7 (or 8) chapters in The Book of Dragons. There are that many lessons in ELTL for that one book. Now there are close to 50 short chapters in Black Beauty and there are about 40 lessons that go with that book, so for a few lessons the child is assigned 2 chapters.

[Heidi]

I use a level behind grade level. I read the lesson to my 2nd grader. She reads the poem and short story aloud to me. Independently she reads along while listening to the audio of the book chapter assigned, and then does the copywork.

 

My 4th and 6th graders do it all independently, except I have them read the poem aloud to me and we do picture study together. I have them skip the grammar when it starts getting too hard in the upper levels (for me). I have them do R&S grammar because I like the explanations better, which is also independent.

 

I don't consider eltl any more mom intensive than any other program I've tried. It's a sure keeper for us.

Edited March 12, 2016 by Heidi

[sunshineslp]

Thanks ladies:) so what all does eltl cover? Grammar, literature, vocabulary, etc? Is it very good at teaching grammar?

 

 

Homeschooling mama of 4... Preschool 3, preschool 4, 1st, and 2nd:)

[Susie in MS]

Thanks ladies:) so what all does eltl cover? Grammar, literature, vocabulary, etc? Is it very good at teaching grammar?

 

 

Homeschooling mama of 4... Preschool 3, preschool 4, 1st, and 2nd:)

 

 

Grammar starts in Book 3 (I think). I feel it covers it well. In another thread I said there is only one sentence to practice with per lesson (which doesn't bother me at all), but I was mistaken. Sometimes there is 1, but at other times there are 3. FOr a child who needs more practice there is  a free download at the website, that  includes more sentences. I appreciate the way the grammar is taught. The explanations are not too long or too short. And in Book 4 (not sure about other levels) they have these great assignments where the student plays with words or sentences. For example they are given 4 words and they are to come up with substitutes. This leads to better writing and communicating when they can choose a better word. But they also have the average type of grammar where the parts of speech are taught and the sentences labeled/diagrammed. 

 

The Writing Copia assignments  are excellent when they are to take the given sentence and change the nouns from plural to singular and vice versa, change the quotations from direct to indirect, remove modifiers, add dialogue, etc. I find these sorts of assignments excellent for leading to good writing skills. 

 

Of course there are the written narrations in some lessons (oral in others) (I think written starts in Book 4), and there are descriptive writing assignments.

 

So you have your reading via the book, poetry, and fable; copywork and dictation (along with reading) promotes the spelling skills; grammar;  and writing taught with various methods. Added plus in my opinion are the art studies.  Note: I realize you are looking at a level for a younger child so some of this may not be in the vol you are interested in. 

 

As far as working independently there is not much that I have my dd do without me. Reading, yes.  But there are oral grammar exercises, oral narrations, and I am checking over her written work.  Plus I pre-read everything. This way I won't be blindly accepting her narrations and not have a clue if she has read the material properly. I agree very much with everything Attached Mama has said about this being a subject that is better approached with more mommy involvement. I have to say that it is difficult when I am working, but it is worth it. I have been using CM methods for some time now and I can see the fruits. 

[TheAttachedMama]

Quick question, can you use immersion reading in the iPad kindle app??

 

 

No, sadly immersion reading only works on the kindle.   (Where it highlights the word and reads it to you.)

 

On the ipad app, you can buy both the ebook and the audiobook and use the whispersynch function but not immersion reading.  (With that, if you listen to the audiobook--say in the car or something---it will keep your place in the ebook when you open it up.   Or if you read ahead in the ebook---it will automatically advance you to the same place in the audiobook.   But it will not highlight and read the word to you.   I use the ipad whyspersynch myself quite a bit to get through more books in a month.   But I prefer the actual immersion reading function for elementary aged kids working on fluency.)

[vaquitita]

I wondered about this too, how independent is ELTL? The author says her boys do it independently, they do it a year behind. Obviously, take my comments for what they're worth because I haven't actually used it. But I'm actually planning to use level 3 with my 5th grader for two reasons, 1-because while he could handle level 4 right now, as I look at the upper levels the grammar gets quite tough, 2- I need him to be able to do it mostly independently. I've printed out the samples and tried it for a day or two, and it seems like it will work. I'm going to have him read through the whole lesson himself FIRST, then come to me to narrate, and we can do any oral exercises then too. So I can check up that he actually did these, lol. I haven't decided yet if I want him to read the poetry to me to practice elocution, we do practice this elsewhere, but not consistently. I'm thinking of getting the pdf so I can give him just one days lesson at a time, probably highlighting anything that he needs to see me for.

[TheAttachedMama]

Wow... You went above and beyond with that explanation and I thoroughly appreciate it!

 

So- yes, I've looked at the samples. They seem rather mom intensive? I'm trying to visualize how I can use any of it independently. But sometimes I have to have the book in my hands first.

 

I have four kids, right now they are 2nd, 1st, preK, and 3 years old. So next year I'll have a K, 2, and 3. Along with my preschooler. BI am trying to find things that have at least some component of me being able to walk away at some point while they finish their work independently so I can assist another kid. They aren't similar in their abilities so I cannot group them together unfortunately. I don't like that CLE seems so hands off and not really putting the info into real life situations... At least it seems like it? It does seem like ELTL is better at practicing it and using it. Not sure if that makes sense.

 

Why does it confuse me so? So, how does it work? I download the book and do the lessons along with the book? You don't have to read the whole book prior, right? I'd assume one book might last several lessons? I have an iPad but a kindle app... Does that work? Do I understand that you recommend the audible route? So paying for the monthly audible membership?

 

 

Homeschooling mama of 4... Preschool 3, preschool 4, 1st, and 2nd:)

Yes, I would say that ELTL is mom intensive.  If you want independent in this subject, there are better options.    (CLE or EIW just to name a few.)    

 

BUT--as I said before, I think that the subject of writing and language arts is better done with someone personally.  Language is communication after all.    And in order to learn it well, you need to actually communicate with another person; you need the back and forth conversation and feedback in order to get better.   

 

My point is....ELTL is not the only "right" option to teaching this subject.    

If you decide that your time is better invested teaching social studies at this age (as an example) then you might have to find something more independent for language arts.   Just be conscious and thoughtful of that choice.   You can also choose different things to focus on each year.   Perhaps next year, your focus is going to be on math.   (I see you are going to try to do two math programs.)   In that case, you might do something light for language arts this one year, and then focus strong on grammar and writing in 4th grade.  OR Maybe you don't have to supplement with right start (as an example) and that will free up some time to do something more mom intensive with language arts.   (Beware the supplementation trap!  Often you don't need to supplement every little thing.  Sometimes it can unnecessarily distract you from other things or lead you to burn out.)   

 

 There are only so many hours in a day after all.   You have to make choices and trade-offs sometimes.   I just advice homeschooling moms to be thoughtful and conscious of these choices.  That way they can prioritize their time and put focus where it needs to be.    Personally, I think the 3Rs need to be priority number one in the early years.  

 

Sometimes homeschooling mamas (myself included!) get too focused on completing curriculum and checking off boxes.   Instead, I think we are better served to look at the child carefully as a person.   We need to examine their individual strengths and weaknesses.   We need to figure out where we want to work towards.   Then, we need to figure out what we need to get to that part.   Checking off boxes won't necessarily get us to the end goal.   We need to treat the books and curricula as TOOLS to get there.   

 

 

 

Oh, and i agree about assessing my time budget. I can already say, most of what I have is mom intensive. We do my fathers world, so bible and social studies is all me. Then math is probably math mammoth and right start.

 

 

Homeschooling mama of 4... Preschool 3, preschool 4, 1st, and 2nd:)

[sunshineslp]

Oh, you misunderstood, that was my fault [emoji5] I'm not supplementing with RS, I'm using it with my K'er. I'm using MM with my 2/3 graders.

 

 

Homeschooling mama of 4... Preschool 3, preschool 4, 1st, and 2nd:)

[TheAttachedMama]

Oh, you misunderstood, that was my fault [emoji5] I'm not supplementing with RS, I'm using it with my K'er. I'm using MM with my 2/3 graders.

 

 

Homeschooling mama of 4... Preschool 3, preschool 4, 1st, and 2nd:)

Oh good!   I think those are both great programs for those ages and wise choices!  :)  

[sunshineslp]

So, what would you add to eltl for la then? Spelling? I read some people add grammar.

 

 

Homeschooling mama of 4... Preschool 3, preschool 4, 1st, and 2nd:)

[silver]

ELTL includes grammar, I wouldn't add more. I know some people add writing to the earlier levels when writing is only covered with copy work and narration--but it certainly isn't necessary to add more writing.

[Susie in MS]

So, what would you add to eltl for la then? Spelling? I read some people add grammar.

 

 

Homeschooling mama of 4... Preschool 3, preschool 4, 1st, and 2nd:)

 

 

Unless my child had spelling difficulties that copywork and dictation couldn't handle, I would add nothing.

[TX Pilgrim]

I have used ELTL since my oldest was in kinder and love it. The read alouds take the most time - as they should. The lessons themselves, especially in level 1 and 2, are short. So to read the lesson material in her book aloud with them is less than 10 minutes.

 

I see that your kids are pretty young. I have decided to wait until my next child is 7 to start level 1( so this fall). I had to take a year off ELTL with my oldest because he wasn't ready for the diagramming and longer copywork in level 3 (I started him at 6). The author recommends that you don't start level 1 until the child can read and easily do the short copywork for each lesson.

 

I love that she plans for lessons 3 times a week so it fits a very flexible schedule. She does use copywork and dictation to teach spelling. She does have another program to teach reading that has spelling words that I use with my oldest son. It is an OT program, teaches the 75 phonograms, etc. With her kids she uses a spelling journal for words that they need to practice.

 

I am also on her yahoo group and she is excellent at responding to questions and concerns.

 

My oldest son is in a coop with an English program this year and his teacher is constantly impressed with his understanding of grammar ( yes, I have him do both programs). He always enjoys the folk tales and has started picking out the passages he likes best for copywork which is the point in the long run ( this is what commonplacing is).

 

Honestly, depending on the skill level of your oldest 2 you might be able to combine them in the same level. For your younger kids you might want to look at her free Pathways program for preK and early elementary.

 

Yes, you will need to spend time with them but honestly it isn't as much as you might think. I highly recommend reading the literature selections aloud over snacks.

 

Just my thoughts,

Missy

[sunshineslp]

Thanks Missy! I didn't know about her pathways program. I'll check it out. We have a spelling program already that we love. Would that be overkill to add eltl to it then? So then eltl is a complete LA program then? I will look more into buying it tomorrow. I think you're right, putting the boys together would be nice. My youngest isn't reading fluently yet. He's 6. If I waited until next fall when he's 7, my oldest will be 8.5 years old... Is that too old to do level 1 (if I combine the boys)?

 

 

Homeschooling mama of 4... Preschool 3, preschool 4, 1st, and 2nd:)

[TheAttachedMama]

Yes, the beauty of ELTL is that it is a complete language arts program in one book.   You don't need to add anything to it.   It is really an efficient use of your time.   It combines a grammar program (very similar to FLL), with a writing program (very similar to WWE in levels 1-3, then it becomes more like a progymnasmata writing program with Charlotte Mason elements to it later on), and there is also great literature selections, poetry, fables, dictionary and thesaurus skills, letter writing, vocabulary, etc. etc.   There is also art appreciation built in, and so much more.  

 

ETA:  We actually do add spelling to the program, but that is because my two oldest kids are dyslexic and need more help with spelling than a typical kid would.   My oldest does All About Spelling.   My middle child does Apples and Pears spelling.   We do not find doing both an over-kill at all.  

 

As far as placement advice, that is a tough one!  

 

The grammar portion is really, really light in level 1.   Level 1 is mostly about reading great books and learning handwriting through copywork.   So I think it would be perfect for a 7 year old who is still working on reading and other basic skills.    OR, in the interest of time, you would be fine to skip level 1 for this year and start him directly in level 2 the year following.  (Level 1 is not a prerequisite for Level 2.   All of the grammar is repeated again in level 2.)   This would delay having two levels of ELTL going for a year.    However, personally, I would feel that level 1 would be a little light for an 8.5 year old.   If you put an 8.5 year old in it, you would probably have to supplement it which sort of defeats the purpose.   (Just my 3 cents!   Others might not agree.) 

 

Honestly, the best place for your 8.5 year old to be is going to be levels 2 or 3.  You are going to need to look at the length of the copywork selections and see if you think he could handle them. (Keeping in mind that he will probably mature some before the start of next grade.)  I feel like the copywork length is going to be a good indicator of readiness for level 3.   How easily can your child write and copy a passage with few to no errors?   That is the main difference between the two levels.  All of the parts of speech are re-taught in level 3 again but at a quicker pace.   Sentence diagramming is also introduced.    And the child is slowly guided into writing their own narrations/paragraphs.   

 

As others have said, the thing that is going to take the longest with ELTL is the chapter from the classic book that you are suppose to read before the lesson.   (Some of those books have pretty long chapters.)   I have my kids do the book reading independently with audiobooks, so doing two levels has been pretty easy for me.   

 

EXAMPLE PLACEMENT OPTIONS:

 

1)  Combine both kids in ELTL 1.   Add in some more dictation, copywork, and narrations from other subjects for your older kid.   (Maybe more grammar practice?)

 

2)   Combine both kids in ELTL 2.  Be ready to shorten the copywork selections for your younger one if needed.   

 

3)  Have only your oldest start in ELTL 2 or 3, and wait to start your soon-to-be 7 year old the next year.  

 

4)  Do two levels.   Have your soon-to-be 7 year old start in ELTL 1 and then place your soon-to-be 8.5 year old in ELTL 2 or 3.   Have them do the audiobooks to free up some of your time.   

 

Edited March 13, 2016 by TheAttachedMama

[Susie in MS]

I'm in the Yahoo group, 

 

 

I did  yahoo and google searches and couldn't find it.  I also looked at the barefoot site for a link. Can someone give me the link, purty please? 

[Sammish]

I did  yahoo and google searches and couldn't find it.  I also looked at the barefoot site for a link. Can someone give me the link, purty please? 

 

Okay, but only because you asked so nicely :) The Yahoo group is Barefoot Ragamuffins. 

[Susie in MS]

Okay, but only because you asked so nicely :) The Yahoo group is Barefoot Ragamuffins. 

 

Haha. Thanks you!

[TX Pilgrim]

Hi,

I thought I had replied on my phone - but apparently not.

 

Attached Mama has some good thoughts about how to go about it. I do agree that Level 1 would be too easy for an 8.5 year old.

 

As regards spelling she has a more CM approach to spelling. This is why she includes it in her reading curriculum and uses dictation as the primary means of teaching it in grades 3 and up. If you have a spelling program you like there is no reason to switch. The spelling journal - if you like the idea- is a free resource she provides at lulu.com.

 

This fall I will have a better sense of what it is like to run 2 levels at the same time but we will probably read one over snacks and then one before bed. I prefer to read aloud, even though my oldest could be reading it on his own. It is an easy bonding point for us and then I don't have to pre- read as much. I have him read other books on his own (from Ambleside's lists, etc.).

 

Hopefully this is helpful. I don't think it is as time intensive as it might seem and she has pulled so many good things together in one place.

Blessings,

Missy

[sunshineslp]

Thank you missy â¤ï¸ so the parent could read aloud, instead of kid reading. Of course, if kid reads it's more independent, but I agree, I won't have time to preread. So it makes more sense for me to read it aloud, or read it together. The grammar doesn't seem as well described/explained as some other programs... But maybe the free samples just don't do it justice. Is the grammar as clearly taught as it is in FLL or abeka/R&S/CLE?

 

 

Homeschooling mama of 4... Preschool 3, preschool 4, 1st, and 2nd:)

[Heathermomster]

Quick question, can you use immersion reading in the iPad kindle app??

VoiceDream is an immersion reading app that is available on both Android and IPad/IPod.  We use VoiceDream to read books off of Gutenberg (epub no image files).  The voice is digital, but you can listen to samples and either use the free ones offered or purchase a voice you like for a couple of dollars.  Some of the ELTL book titles are super cheap on Audible.

 

I've never considered ELTL to be independent.  My 2nd grader listens to her books.  We complete the grammar portion together, and I read the fable and poem.  I print up the copy work using StartWrite sw so that she can practice her cursive in the NAC font.  For narrations, I either scribe or she dictates them into her IPod and saves them to EverNote.  We review and edit the narrations together and I print them up.  

Edited March 14, 2016 by Heathermomster

[smarson]

 

Immersion Reading on the Kindle:

If you happen to own a kindle (even a really old one), the immersion reading is a nice feature to use with ELTL.   Especially if you are going to have your kids do the reading independently.   Not required...but just a nice extra that I personally recommend.     It highlights the words being read and automatically keeps the kid's place.   Plus, the books are read by professional actors who (for the most part) do a really good job or narrating the book.  Actually, if I am honest, they all read aloud much better than I do.  hahaha

 

The thing about immersion reading on a kindle is that you have to buy the book on amazon and the audio on audible.   (See this page for explanation.)   You can't use the free libravox recording.  And only books on audible which say "Whysper synch" next to them work with immersion reading.  (I think every ELTL selection is whyspersynch ready if I am not mistaken.)  But, because the books are in the public domain they are all REALLY cheap on amazon and audible.   Example:   The kindle version of Jungle book is $0.99, and if you own the kindle, you can buy the audible recording for $2.99.   So for about 4 bucks I can have the immersion reading for the book.   I know I can get the libravox version for free, but I feel like this $4 splurge is VERY worth it.  (Again, I have noticed that my rising-4th graders spelling has improved so much the more he is exposed the the actual text from these books.  And his vocabulary is through the roof from hearing these books read. )   Plus, three to four people in our family will probably read and listen to the book at some point...and so it really is a small price to pay for us personally.   (The biggest cost would be a kindle, but you can buy old used kindles for not much online.  That is what we did for Christmas this year for the kids.)  

 

 

Thank you SO much for your explanation of how the immersion reading works on the Kindle!!  I really like the idea of seeing the words as well as hearing them - I know it's super easy for me to completely check out when I'm just listening to a book online, I imagine it's way easier for kids who are just getting comfortable reading!!  

 

No I need to go sign up for Audible so that I can get my one free book/month and collect a few of the books she uses in ELTL 2 before school starts next year!  But then again, like you said, $4 for the two versions isn't that much of an investment, especially for the payoff!!! 

 

THANK YOU!!!!!

[hands-on-mama]

Whisper sync now works on the iPad app!!!!

[TX Pilgrim]

I am really not familiar with those other programs so I can't compare. The first two levels cover the same topics and I think she does a good job explaining it without belaboring the point. Her definitions are pretty much the same I have seen in other programs. In level 3 she starts introducing diagramming and some more complicated grammar. She doesn't get into the real technical details until students are older but I like the way she talks about the uses of anoun( helpful if you will do Latin) and goes beyond just person place or thing in higher levels.

 

The key is helping the student apply the definitions to the sentences from the literature so that they really get it. She subscribes to the slow and steady, do it well type of philosophy. So she has one or two sentences every lesson ( in level 2 and beyond) that practice with the part of speech you are focusing on (and you can have kids review the other parts they have learned easily enough). It has worked for my oldest but he is into no frills just tell me what I need to know. She does have additional practice sheets for free if you feel your child needs more practice.

 

Missy