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Posted (edited)

UPDATE:  Neuropsych pretty much says she's just fine academically, but diagnosed her with Anxiety, specially with performance anxiety.  Yet looking at the scores, perhaps the school is not ok with "just average", lol.  I have a meeting with the school today.  Right before the year ended, they had her meet a reading specialist.  

Myself, I have started to notice that if she's not engaged, she's kind of spacey and gives really vague incorrect answers, not using the evidence given correctly.  I wonder if we were to refill out the forms, would she receive an adhd diagnosis, as the forms the teachers did sounded like they were hinting at it.

Otherwise, the report is kind of hard to understand.

 

 

 

My 3rd grade dd attends one of the top private schools in the us.  she had been doing well aside of some mild complaints of issues following multi-step directions and reading comprehensions over time.  This past meeting, i was told that she didnt do well on the years test (CTP) especially for language section.  The learning specialist sat with her and did some tests where it came up that she is having issues with understanding context clues, reading comprehension, completing fill in the blank sentences.  They said that she should get an educational evaluation.  The thought of her getting kicked out of this school where we get a $45k scholarship and have to go back to the terrible, violence-riddled schools in my neighborhood makes me break out into crying fit. 

Is there anything I should be looking out for, should we go the neuropsych eval or regular psycho eval, what kinds of practitioners should i be looking out for, and most importantly, what else can i be doing at home to help her.

Thanks

Edited by LadyBelle
Posted (edited)

One, I *wouldn't* limit her time with her relatives.  Being bilingual is a GIFT, not a curse.  If she needs ESL instruction or just some more time immersed in english to improve her english, then make that happen.  For instance, you could give her audiobooks to listen to.  I have a friend who immigrated from another country who learned much of her english by listening to audiobooks.  They're fun and portable.  My ds listens to audiobooks many hours a day.

 

As far as the testing, yes, definitely pursue private testing.  Is the school suggesting what they think the issue is?  She could have ADHD or an SLD or something totally unrelated to the bilingual status.  What are your options for testing?  You *could* pursue an eval by an SLP (speech language pathologist) to see if they turn anything up. Then you want a psych eval to look at IQ, achievement, learning disabilities, ADHD, etc.  You could also consider having her hearing checked.  Just depends on your funds as to how much of that you do.  I can get a hearing eval at our state university for $35, so that's why I sometimes recommend it.  If it's going to cost you a ton of money, prioritize obviously.  Does she have any issues understanding you in background noise (noisy restaurants, with the kitchen fan on, etc.)?  Have you ever wondered about ADHD?  Is there anything you suspect?  How is her reading?  How are her standardized test scores?

 

You're doing the right thing to pursue evals and find out what's going on.  Keep us posted.  We'll be rooting for you!   :)

 

Edited by OhElizabeth
Posted

:grouphug:  :grouphug:  :grouphug:  :grouphug: 

 

Please don't drop out of school if you can help it.  Are you going part or full time?  If you can keep moving forward with your own schooling while still helping your child, that would be helping you both while also showing her that you value yourself and your own education.  

 

I also agree with OhElizabeth,  Please don't limit her contact with family.  Besides it being her heritage, bilingualism can be a big help with getting jobs.  You just have to know where to look.

 

As for what to do next, I agree, look for a way to get an evaluation through a neuropsychologist.  Start there if you can.  If she needs more exposure to English, then I also agree, get audio books.  

 

You might also look at the Critical Thinking Skills company.  Perhaps the Reading Detective series and the Mind Benders series would help her.  Start with the basic levels,  Do one sheet every few days but work on them together.  Read them with her.  Do it as a team.  Here is a link.  They have printed versions that you might be able to find locally.  They also have electronic versions you can download.  I like those so if we make a lot of mistakes we can reprint the pages.

 

http://www.criticalthinking.com/reading-detective-beginning.html

http://www.criticalthinking.com/mind-benders.html

 

Hang in there.   :grouphug:

  • Like 2
Posted

Many of my students who supposedly have trouble with comprehension actually just have a bit of a phonics deficit. Have her watch through my online phonics lessons, linked below. They are based on syllables and a syllabary. I agree, keep up with the Spanish, it is beneficial long run. You can compare and contrast spanish syllables to english, spanish is more suited to syllables and comparing and contrasting them is very powerful for the brain, I will hunt up my link to the Spanish syllabary books on Google.

  • Like 2
Posted

I second the Critical Thinking Company books, but I do think it would be a good idea to get some language testing done if you can afford it.

 

 Hang in there!
 

  • Like 3
  • 6 months later...
Posted

LadyBelle, to upload a PDF or any file?

If you scroll down to the 'Reply to this topic' box?

Next to Post in the lower right corner?  You will see 'More Reply Options'.

 

Write some text, and then click on More Reply Options.

You will now see under reply box:  'Attach Files'.
Click on that, and it will open your Documents folder.   Where you can find the file, click on it, and then click open.
It will then be attached to your post.  
When you post your message, also give it a minute to upload from your computer.
Also the upload file, has a 500 Kb limit.  So you might need to split it, if it's larger than that?
Posted

Well her working memory and processing speed are exceptional.  It's easy to see how those strengths could help her function well there.  She also seems to have pockets that are unexpectedly low, almost like she was fading out or anxious or less focused or had blood sugar dropping.

 

Obviously work on the subtraction and figure out if that was her just not feeling well or if she needs work there.

 

Is the school giving her an IEP for the anxiety?  What did the psych recommend you do for that?  Meds? Counseling?

 

Some of those sections are so high, so consistently high (120s) that it makes you wonder how much the anxiety was affecting her performance.

 

I think you're going to want to go very aggressively on the anxiety intervention.  I agree that's frustrating if they just want her out to protect their test scores.  Is the school publicly funded and required to do an IEP?

Posted

Well she bombed the test called ctp given by private schools.  They've also been complaining of her low reading comprehension and vagueness.  At home, she often takes forever thinking of an answer when we're reviewing/doing homework, as if she's terrified to speak up, and cries often/easily during, which leads to terrible frustrations of, "ssppeeaakkk please, say anything."  She often comes home with large knowledge gaps, almost as if she wasn't around for the lesson that the homework was about.  She's fairly strong in math, but word problems can be really tricky until she fully understands what exactly is going on.  With her reading, I notice that she often doesnt connect sentences together logically to make meaning of the paragraph when asked to state what she just read, has a hard time figuring out new vocab in context.  (we were thinking of starting to do that exaggerated thinking outloud while reading with her so she practices stopping to think/feel while reading) Socially, she gets along with mostly everyone but has a hard time actually making a real friend.  We are having our meeting with the school and the learning specialists next week, and honestly dont know what to expect.  But this is def a school for high achievers and we're worried about her future there.  She is def a pleaser one on one at school and during the exam, and has a lot of stamina, and although they say she has issues with abstract thinking, she often asks a lot of existential questions (probably stemming from anxiety) such as "how do I know that I am alive, if when Im dreaming it feels like im living, maybe everything all this time is a dream", or years ago she said that she'd rather die first than feel so sad from seeing me die.

 

I attached other parts of her eval as well as a separate speech eval she got a month before neuropsych.  report%20screenshot%2021.jpg

Posted

Are you saying the school did a CTOPP on her?  And will they give you those results in advance too?  The scores you're showing here look like the CELF.  Was that from the school or private?  And did that person give a diagnosis? I agree you've got a spread there in scores.  I'm all for digging in on language.  When you have scores on testing that *match* what you're seeing in real life, that's really important.  

 

Fwiw, my ds' language scores went from 25th percentile to 50th with 6 months of intervention by me.  Language issues do NOT have to mean she gets kicked out, and in fact I would just the opposite, that they're treatable and OUGHT to be treated.  She's clearly very bright and has some strengths that support her in spite of her weaknesses.  Someone does not have to be bright at EVERYTHING to be very bright.  My ds has 3 SLDs and he's crazy bright.  I'd love to get him in a school for the gifted.  But he'd need his IEP and supports and interventions, sure.  

 

So maybe take a deep breath and think about how this turns into an ACTION PLAN.  Ask what they can put in the IEP and what you can do privately to improve it.  Honestly, schools aren't as aggressive (typically) with intervention as what you could choose to be privately.  Once you get the diagnoses, you can work on things at home. SuperDuperInc, Great Ideas for Teaching, Linguisystems, lots of places sell materials for this.  Look at how much LOWER her verbal IQ score was than her performance.  Her performance IQ was in the very bright range!  She's a bright chick!  So you bring in some work on the verbal, figure out what's going on, see what happens.  Obviously you don't want her somewhere that isn't a good fit.  But it's GOOD to have found the weaknesses now and it's GOOD to get intervention.  To me those scores mean there's a lot of ceiling in there where things can improve and go up!  :)

Posted

when I mentioned CTP, I meant the test given out to independent schools nationally by the ERB.  I found this link online that explains it 

https://issuu.com/summitcds/docs/erbs

 

Thank you very much for your response!! Her official diagnosis was Generalized Anxiety, especially Performance Anxiety.  She recommended CBT Which does make sense, but it makes me wonder how about all of these "sprinkled little things."  I had been trying to get her speech therapy by the dept of ed since preschool, but they always denied it, and I feel like it's all just finally mounted and peaked.  

 

I am an avid workbook/resources researcher, but i've been at a loss as to how to proceed with her.  I feel like whenever I sit with her, she kind of locks up for a long time, until she finally gets it, then she's a rockstar.  But I can't quite tell what is it that she struggles with.  And I feel like the neuropsych says that academically she's fine, with no learning disorders.  

I attached yet another portion that I thought may be useful, sorry, I have like a 50 page report.

Screen%20Shot%202016-09-26%20at%201.33.1

Posted

You don't have to jump before you see what they'll do for you.  Sometimes what you worry is happening isn't what happens.  If they're publicly funded, they have to do the IEP.  You're in the middle of the process, so you don't yet know what they're going to kick in and how helpful they'll be.  They may surprise you.

Posted

Well that testing from the SLP is definitely showing language issues.  So she has language issues and GAD.  They can do an IEP for anxiety and throw speech, anything else she qualifies for in there.  See if your state allows for diagnosis by discrepancy.  If there are at least 2 standard deviations of discrepancy between IQ and achievement, you can advocate for specialized services in the academics too.  You don't have to be absolutely behind, only relative to IQ, at least in our state.

 

It's a process, sigh.  The data from the SLP is showing what has been bugging you.  That test is the CELF5, and if you google it you can see info on all the subtests.  It's a real standard test, good data.  I suppose they could try to deny you services, but you've definitely got some arguing ground there.

  • Like 1
Posted

Thanks for your comment. I wished I understood more of your message as it seems to really be pointing me in the right direction. The board of ed here in NY will have me do their own assessment

So I'd have no clue how to possibly combine all of these results into a plausible argument. I'm also wondering how is it that her neuropsychology did not pick up on the language issue as strongly as the speech therapist did.

 

 

Well that testing from the SLP is definitely showing language issues. So she has language issues and GAD. They can do an IEP for anxiety and throw speech, anything else she qualifies for in there. See if your state allows for diagnosis by discrepancy. If there are at least 2 standard deviations of discrepancy between IQ and achievement, you can advocate for specialized services in the academics too. You don't have to be absolutely behind, only relative to IQ, at least in our state.

 

It's a process, sigh. The data from the SLP is showing what has been bugging you. That test is the CELF5, and if you google it you can see info on all the subtests. It's a real standard test, good data. I suppose they could try to deny you services, but you've definitely got some arguing ground there.

Posted

The language testing for speech is probably more nuanced than the straight reading comprehension for the psych, but I would think the school would be having her do work that is more like what the psych is testing. I would want answers for why those are so different. Has she had hearing and auditory processing assessed? Speech testing is very auditory in nature.

 

I agree though that she does not SEEM to have obvious learning issues and has some strengths that are quite high. That is frustrating!

Posted (edited)

Each practitioner is asking a different question.  The school personnel (psych, SLP, etc.) are only asking whether the student qualifies for services.  Not does the label exist, only whether the issue has enough discrepancy, low enough scores, whatever, that the student qualifies.  Your private psych is asking what the overall labels are.  The SLP is asking what they can do to help.

 

Personally, for language issues I'm a HUGE fan of SLPs or SLP materials.  My ds had significant language issues relative to his gifted IQ, but the scores on the CELF5 weren't low enough at the time for the $$$ neuropsych to give a rip.  I took the scores, decided to intervene, and his reading started, all kinds of things improved.  Language is a HUGE issue, whether the (idiot) neuropsych says it is or not.  

 

Edited by OhElizabeth
Posted

Haha. This makes so much sense. Please do let me know if there are any materials that you like.

I noticed tonight that when doing reading comp homework answering what types of tasks could a monkey do for a disabled person... within it, it mentioned that they can do things such as holding spoon or brush. But she couldn't come up with what types of tasks could a monkey possibly do with these things. When I told her, how about brushing hair, she had a duh moment and said, well obviously, would he just stand there holding the brush.

So I'm guessing there may be some issues with "Inferencing".

I tried looking at some, but they seemed for a lower level.

 

In regards to other evals, she got an hearing and auditory processing, for which she was avg to above. And even a thorough eye exam which showed that she needed reading glasses. Lol. I've literally done everything I could to give the school as complete a picture as possible. They seem to be wanting to work with us this far, but I'm really trying to educate myself and help her as much as I can at home to better prepare her.

Posted

Sprinkled little things

 

Clear glitches in an obviously bright kid

 

And the overall description

 

Are we really sure she's not on the spectrum? Is the np who did the eval well-verses with girls on the spectrum?

 

I'm not saying that's it but the question could, or should, be asked. Reminds me a little of mine. One who got the dx and another who also has the odd glitches but might function too well to qualify for a dx. If it's not clear enough now to decide, I suggest re-visiting the questions in the early teens.

 

It could be just anxiety with the language glitch, but most girls on the spectrum first come to the attention of professionals with anxiety or depression.

 

I'm probably over-thinking based on my experience but that glitchiness is just waving a flag at me.

  • Like 1
Posted

Great Ideas For Teaching > Home

 

Super Duper Publications - Fun Learning Materials for Kids!

 

LinguiSystems

 

All three of these places have great things, and I've used things from each of them.  I'm INCREDIBLY happy with ANYTHING by DeGaetano, and that's pretty much everything at Great Ideas for Teaching.  So just start looking in there.  There are usually samples, and you'll quickly discern what would be challenging (worthwhile) for her.  

 

Super Duper ran a sale this fall and has 50% off items in their emails.  I never see deals for the others, except occasionally used.  But I use materials from all of them with my ds.  I'm not an SLP.  For me, they're open and go.  I look at the test data, look at the samples, and go with my gut.

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