What are you telling your kids about porn?

[Murphy101]

I think porn as zero value to individuals or society and is a sickness that only contributes to further mental illness.

 

If that wasn't enough, it is predominately a means to exploit the vulnerable for the enjoyment of others, which I think is morally repugnant.

 

Russel Brand has an excellent short video about why it's wrong. He actually vlogged about it bc of all the nuttiness over 50 Shades of Grey when it came out, but it isn't actually about 50 Shades of grey. All my children over the age of 11 have watched this video and we have discussed it. What is porn? Why is it unhealthy in sexual development and in what we think of as healthy relationship development? What is the unseen social price of it bc however much cinimatic effects are there, those are real people in those images.

 

[LucyStoner]

I think porn as zero value to individuals or society and is a sickness that only contributes to further mental illness.

 

If that wasn't enough, it is predominately a means to exploit the vulnerable for the enjoyment of others, which I think is morally repugnant.

 

Russel Brand has an excellent short video about why it's wrong. He actually vlogged about it bc of all the nuttiness over 50 Shades of Grey when it came out, but it isn't actually about 50 Shades of grey. All my children over the age of 11 have watched this video and we have discussed it. What is porn? Why is it unhealthy in sexual development and in what we think of as healthy relationship development? What is the unseen social price of it bc however much cinimatic effects are there, those are real people in those images.

 

I love that video. Thanks for sharing it.

[TranquilMind]

I'm not going to debate the specific merits of pornography in this forum.

 

But I think that video and print media that focus on the pleasure of observing the sex act itself (versus a story in which sex appears), i.e. porn, have value. I also view some sub-genres of romance novels as porn, frankly, and I do think they have value.

 

I also think chocolate covered caramel, while inferior to "real food", has value. As does chewing gum, and I'm not opposed to a Coca-Cola once in awhile, either. So I would say many things that should be enjoyed only in moderation, which can harm us if we have too much, have value, yes.

 

That said I think that Joanne and I both believe--based on what she wrote--that the current porn industry does not give the value that could be there, due to the abuse of humans in the production of porn.

 

Edit to add: I believe that the reason the industry is so abusive is the fact that it is illicit. Like the legalization of coffee and alcohol and recently marijuana, while these things are addictive, certainly keeping them regulated and out in the open is preferable to keeping them all black market. One would hope that the legalization of pornography would allow more law-abiding, decent people to participate in ways that respect their own bodies. And as a matter of fact, file sharing and easy video production have allowed married couples to share videos between one another on mutual sharing networks, without abusing anyone's financial or social desperation. That porn would presumably not be available to a young teen but it highlights the fact that removing a taboo or illegality of something can create conditions for legal and positive trade of that thing. "If porn is criminal, only criminals make porn" type of thing. And those running that show have often been found to have blatant disregard for the human rights of the actors. But removing that constraint allows for a very different type of person to participate.

We have no basis of commonality if you can find anything worthwhile in the heinous porn industry.  That's a nonstarter so I will stop here. 

[TranquilMind]

I'm not sure I understand this comment. My answer to your question was anything earlier than 14 is of *greater* concern.

 

Help me understand your comment before I respond?

All I meant was that I would have felt more comforted if you said it was worse under the age of 4 or something, since my kid was exposed at 9 by the neighbor kid (the ipad incident in the yard referenced above).

That's all.  It is bad anytime. 

[Ausmumof3]

How early is early to you?

 

I got to the situation in the yard as quick as it came to my attention but we are still talking about a 9 year old in that case.

 

I AM against porn in theory. All things you should not be doing can become entrenched habits. I don't care what they are. Donuts. Porn. Shopping. Alcohol. Random sex.

Have you ever noticed we don't have any salad addicts?

Google carrot addiction...

It's a thing apparently

[TranquilMind]

Google carrot addiction...

It's a thing apparently

Ha.  I probably don't want to know.

[908874]

First, sex is not a taboo topic in our house. Each of the kids has their age range of this series: http://www.amazon.com/Its-Perfectly-Normal-Changing-Growing/dp/0763668729/ref=tmm_pap_swatch_0?_encoding=UTF8&qid=&sr=

 

 

I know this isn't part of the discussion but I wanted to say thanks for this link.

 

I just ordered the book for kids 4-8 thanks!

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Bluegoat]

I'm not going to debate the specific merits of pornography in this forum.

 

But I think that video and print media that focus on the pleasure of observing the sex act itself (versus a story in which sex appears), i.e. porn, have value. I also view some sub-genres of romance novels as porn, frankly, and I do think they have value.

 

I also think chocolate covered caramel, while inferior to "real food", has value. As does chewing gum, and I'm not opposed to a Coca-Cola once in awhile, either. So I would say many things that should be enjoyed only in moderation, which can harm us if we have too much, have value, yes.

 

That said I think that Joanne and I both believe--based on what she wrote--that the current porn industry does not give the value that could be there, due to the abuse of humans in the production of porn.

 

Edit to add: I believe that the reason the industry is so abusive is the fact that it is illicit. Like the legalization of coffee and alcohol and recently marijuana, while these things are addictive, certainly keeping them regulated and out in the open is preferable to keeping them all black market. One would hope that the legalization of pornography would allow more law-abiding, decent people to participate in ways that respect their own bodies. And as a matter of fact, file sharing and easy video production have allowed married couples to share videos between one another on mutual sharing networks, without abusing anyone's financial or social desperation. That porn would presumably not be available to a young teen but it highlights the fact that removing a taboo or illegality of something can create conditions for legal and positive trade of that thing. "If porn is criminal, only criminals make porn" type of thing. And those running that show have often been found to have blatant disregard for the human rights of the actors. But removing that constraint allows for a very different type of person to participate.

 

I don't quite understand, quite a lot of porn is legal.  There is a huge legal porn industry, and amateur porn is legal too if people want to make it or view it.

 

 

[Bluegoat]

I think porn as zero value to individuals or society and is a sickness that only contributes to further mental illness.

 

If that wasn't enough, it is predominately a means to exploit the vulnerable for the enjoyment of others, which I think is morally repugnant.

 

Russel Brand has an excellent short video about why it's wrong. He actually vlogged about it bc of all the nuttiness over 50 Shades of Grey when it came out, but it isn't actually about 50 Shades of grey. All my children over the age of 11 have watched this video and we have discussed it. What is porn? Why is it unhealthy in sexual development and in what we think of as healthy relationship development? What is the unseen social price of it bc however much cinimatic effects are there, those are real people in those images.

 

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=5kvzamjQW9M

 

I agree with you, but I've wondered a bit if our interest in porn is not to some degree related to the increased levels of privacy we have.  Or it might be better to put it the other way - maybe as a species it is more normal for us to have less privacy about sex.  On the one hand, it tends to make it more mysterious, we have less exposure to other people doing it, and on the other a sex life in a more shared space may tend to be a little more utilitarian.

[Murphy101]

I love that video. Thanks for sharing it.

I do too. Your welcome.

[kewb]

I have told my children the truth about porn. 

The reality is

a lot of women and men are sold into the sex trade as children, given drugs so they can perform, and that it is degrading to human beings. That many people get involved in the porn industry because they don't think they deserve any better.

Yes, there are women and men who will say it is empowering.  Great for them if they feel that way.  It doesn't mean everyone does.

Watching and reading porn will also give you false expectations as to what great sex is and how people should treat one another.

Mine are older teens so we have delved a bit deeper then when they were little.  At the younger years I simply sated it was degrading, dehumanizing, and something they should try not to delve into.

[JennyD]

 

Thanks specifically to this thread, I actually initiated a short discussion with my 10yo son about Internet pornography this evening.  I noticed that the Personal Tech page in today's newspaper also featured an article about the Hulk Hogan/Gawker trial.  (For those of you not following this, the wrestler is suing Gawker for publishing a s-x tape of him with a friend's wife.)  The Personal Tech page is why Thursday is my 10yo's "favorite day of the week," so I thought that there was a good chance he had read the piece.  

 

Anyway, emboldened by the discussion here, I asked my son if he had read the article; first he said no, and then he said yes. I asked him what he thought of it and he said it was "odd," and so I just took it from there.  It was a short chat and he had his face buried under a pillow for most of it, but I think he got my two key points, which were: (1) there is a lot of stuff on the internet that is unhealthy for anyone to watch, but especially for children, so this is why we have parental controls; and (2) if you ever see something that makes you uneasy or upset, you can always always always talk to us and we will help you.  

 

I'm pretty sure I didn't handle it perfectly, but I feel good that I at least started this conversation.  Thank you to the Hive for pushing me to be a better parent!!!

[Murphy101]

I agree with you, but I've wondered a bit if our interest in porn is not to some degree related to the increased levels of privacy we have. Or it might be better to put it the other way - maybe as a species it is more normal for us to have less privacy about sex. On the one hand, it tends to make it more mysterious, we have less exposure to other people doing it, and on the other a sex life in a more shared space may tend to be a little more utilitarian.

I've got some mommy brain fog something awful so I need some clarity..

 

This reads as you suggesting bc people aren't having more public sexual displays, that's why some are seeking sexual displays in private?

 

Um. I'm not sure where to even begin with all the wrong in that theory.

 

Or maybe you meant that because people are often becoming self isolated due to the digital age, they are seeking intimacy digitally as well?

 

I think there could be some truth to that. And in fact we have a rather half serious family joke that generally speaking, if one must do it alone in a dark room to avoid feeling shame or humiliation, one probably should not be doing it or doing it like that. And also, that humans are social creatures. It's important to seek social outlets IRL.

 

Or maybe you mean people are rebelling to some perceived puritanical social expectation?

 

I don't know where they live, but it isn't the Midwest or south and I suspect they don't watch tv or see magazines at the grocery store. Sex is everywhere. Personally I could do to forget some of the stuff I've learned about sex.

[Tsuga]

 

 

This reads as you suggesting bc people aren't having more public sexual displays, that's why some are seeking sexual displays in private? 

 

Um. I'm not sure where to even begin with all the wrong in that theory.

 

It would be helpful if you tried, though.

 

I think this is a common belief, and I myself have seen it in societies that are much more repressed than ours. The less they get to see one another, the more they seek that out in private and the more perverted it gets.

 

However, I do not believe that our society is so repressed that it explains the level of interest in pornography, personally.

[UmMusa]

Thanks for the reminder to talk about this. DH and I spoke to our oldest yesterday, and I ordered some of the recommended books.

[Tsuga]

I don't quite understand, quite a lot of porn is legal.  There is a huge legal porn industry, and amateur porn is legal too if people want to make it or view it.

 

There is a lot of legal porn, but a lot of what seems to go on in the industry is unregulated or skirts regulation (such as requirements to wear condoms, for example).

[Tsuga]

We have no basis of commonality if you can find anything worthwhile in the heinous porn industry.  That's a nonstarter so I will stop here. 

 

You can't switch between "porn" and "porn industry" as if that's not conflating things. I eat meat and enjoy it (edit: when I can obtain pastured, organic meat). I believe the meat industry in the US right now is pretty gross.

Edited March 11, 2016 by Tsuga

[Tanaqui]

There are at least three issues here.

 

The first is whether viewing any form of pornography is intrinsically harmful to consumers. I simply don't think there's enough evidence for this position.

 

The second is whether most pornography is harmful to consumers because it is unrealistic or shows unhealthy relationship models. This may be true, and certainly I would advise any person not to get their ideas about sex and relationships from porn! That's generally not intended for education anyway, is it? But, you know, it's interesting - people can get turned on by some imagery that isn't at all what they're interested in in real life... or if they are, they're interested in it just pretend, not really-really. It's not just men, but women too.

 

The third is whether or not the porn industry  is harmful to the workers. Certainly there seems to be an awful lot of exploitation and coerced labor within the industry... but then, there's an awful lot of exploitation and coerced labor in any industry. If you go out and eat a Kinder Egg, or some shrimp scampi, or if you purchase a new iPhone, or a diamond engagement ring, or some nail polish, then you're almost certainly perpetuating modern day slavery. Actual, literal slavery. And while I know somebody is going to respond that this sort of slavery is different, I'm not entirely sure that people held captive on boats agree with this assessment. (It's not like all those other slaves aren't at risk of rape anyway.)

 

So as far as the third point goes, I teach the kids that they really need to do their due diligence so as to minimize the amount of money they're funneling towards businesses that do not engage in ethical practices, and that goes regardless of what they're buying. I don't really see this as separate from our normal, everyday ethics.

 

At their ages, they're not exactly interested in sex yet. So they're not interested in porn. Our subject-specific conversations have mostly been "No, sweetie, it's good you checked with me, because MLP hentai is not something you want to view. Yes, that's pretty much what that word means" and "Ugh, some jerk kid just gave a play-by-play of two girls, one cup on the bus, for crying out loud, don't ever click a link to view that, it's really unpleasant stuff. Yes, I mean sex stuff. Trust me." (Seriously, I spent years assiduously avoiding 2g1c on the internet, only to get blindsided by it on the s78. I could have smacked those brats, and I am not a violent person.)

[Bluegoat]

I've got some mommy brain fog something awful so I need some clarity..

 

This reads as you suggesting bc people aren't having more public sexual displays, that's why some are seeking sexual displays in private?

 

Um. I'm not sure where to even begin with all the wrong in that theory.

 

Or maybe you meant that because people are often becoming self isolated due to the digital age, they are seeking intimacy digitally as well?

 

I think there could be some truth to that. And in fact we have a rather half serious family joke that generally speaking, if one must do it alone in a dark room to avoid feeling shame or humiliation, one probably should not be doing it or doing it like that. And also, that humans are social creatures. It's important to seek social outlets IRL.

 

Or maybe you mean people are rebelling to some perceived puritanical social expectation?

 

I don't know where they live, but it isn't the Midwest or south and I suspect they don't watch tv or see magazines at the grocery store. Sex is everywhere. Personally I could do to forget some of the stuff I've learned about sex.

 

No, I'm not really thinking about anything that I would charachterize as a display.  More that we just have a much more private concept of sex for the most part.  It's pretty unusual really that we are so unlikely, unless we seek out things like pornography, to be exposed to other people having sex in the normal course of life.  Even a hundred years ago here those who weren't well off commonly had a much different experience, and if you go to many places to day where the living conditions are just different, you would really have to go to superhuman efforts not to be aware of other people's sex lives. You can't live in a one room home or a longhouse or many other traditional types of housing with significant isolation from other people.

 

I think on the one hand that it may make the idea of other people's sex lives a lot more mundane.  And if it's your sex life, you probably aren't going to be putting a lot of hours into ramping it up and experimenting when your own privacy is really mental rather than physical. 

 

I suppose there might also be some other kind of interaction there, human social life is I think complicated.  Women respond to each other hormonal for example, when we live in groups.  People do respond physically to pornography.  Is there an interaction in group life that tends to work to encourage people towards having sex?  I wouldn't be surprised.

[Bluegoat]

It would be helpful if you tried, though.

 

I think this is a common belief, and I myself have seen it in societies that are much more repressed than ours. The less they get to see one another, the more they seek that out in private and the more perverted it gets.

 

However, I do not believe that our society is so repressed that it explains the level of interest in pornography, personally.

 

I wouldn't say that either.

 

But our relation to sex is weird, really.  I mean, I would never call it repressed.  But it's also very unreal.  Unreal people, unreal sex, unreal relationships, unreal consequences.

[Murphy101]

I guess we have to start with what is porn then. A judge once said, it's hard to define but everyone knows it when they see it.

 

Because to me, no porn is acceptable.

 

But also, the naked form is not in and of itself porn. I don't hide or black out anything in my classical art or biology books. I don't tell the kids the two animals going at it are "hugging" or "wrestling". We have lived in cramped quarters and that meant sometimes someone would walk in on me changing clothing, having sex with dh, or in the shower or in the bathroom. No one freaked out like something sick and awful had happened. We just grabbed the nearest covering and yipped, "OUT!" And they scurried away. I'm sure that time the ambulance was trying to get a laboring me into the truck the whole world saw more than I'd like, but no one is freaking that OMG the horror of exposed flesh. Well maybe they were. Afterwards I sorta was mentally, but everyone was polite enough to keep that to themselves thankfully. Lol

[Bluegoat]

I guess we have to start with what is porn then. A judge once said, it's hard to define but everyone knows it when they see it.

 

Because to me, no porn is acceptable.

 

But also, the naked form is not in and of itself porn. I don't hide or black out anything in my classical art or biology books. I don't tell the kids the two animals going at it are "hugging" or "wrestling". We have lived in cramped quarters and that meant sometimes someone would walk in on me changing clothing, having sex with dh, or in the shower or in the bathroom. No one freaked out like something sick and awful had happened. We just grabbed the nearest covering and yipped, "OUT!" And they scurried away. I'm sure that time the ambulance was trying to get a laboring me into the truck the whole world saw more than I'd like, but no one is freaking that OMG the horror of exposed flesh. Well maybe they were. Afterwards I sorta was mentally, but everyone was polite enough to keep that to themselves thankfully. Lol

 

No, those things aren't porn, but porn is related to our sexuality more generally, both biologically and otherwise.  I would describe it as a misordered use of sexuality, but then I'd ask - what causes that?  What enables it?  Technology is one answer - it's telling I think that the term pornography came into use not long after the camera was invented.  I think privacy is another - even a short time ago pornographic films meant going to an adult theatre with other people which many simply were not interested in, or wouldn't risk. The way our brains work is another, more basic reason, it appeals at all.

 

But I think that in some ways the conversion of sex into a consumer product has damaged our relation to it - in a similar way that for many people the relation to food has become sanitized and abstract and that creates a variety of problems in individuals and systems.  When you are living by hunting or farming it is hard to be sentimental about food, and at the same time difficult to be totally separated from its harder effects (as we are with factory animal husbandry.)  When average, regular sex, and the consequences of it, are just all around, perhaps it keeps people grounded a little. 

[Tanaqui]

No, those things aren't porn, but porn is related to our sexuality more generally, both biologically and otherwise.  I would describe it as a misordered use of sexuality, but then I'd ask - what causes that?  What enables it?  Technology is one answer - it's telling I think that the term pornography came into use not long after the camera was invented.  I think privacy is another - even a short time ago pornographic films meant going to an adult theatre with other people which many simply were not interested in, or wouldn't risk. The way our brains work is another, more basic reason, it appeals at all.

 

But people have been producing erotic art for literally thousands of years, if not longer. Erotic art, erotic stories, erotic art paired with erotic stories.... They didn't have cameras, but they drew what they liked to see. Some of the earliest printed books are pornographic. Some of the earliest written works are pornographic. It's often stated, with some justification, that every advance in communication is rapidly adopted for use in helping people get off.

 

But I think that in some ways the conversion of sex into a consumer product has damaged our relation to it

 

Sex has always been a consumer product. That's why "the oldest profession" isn't the stone masons.

 

Edited March 11, 2016 by Tanaqui

[Murphy101]

But people have been producing erotic art for literally thousands of years, if not longer. Erotic art, erotic stories, erotic art paired with erotic stories.... They didn't have cameras, but they drew what they liked to see. Some of the earliest printed books are pornographic. Some of the earliest written works are pornographic. It's often stated, with some justification, that every advance in communication is rapidly adopted for use in helping people get off.

 

 

Sex has always been a consumer product. That's why "the oldest profession" isn't the stone masons.

Yes. Bibles were often not allowed for young people and women or even printed without the Song of Soloman bc it was considered to erotic.

 

Gilgamesh could be construed as porn in it's most accurate interpretations. (Beastiality anyone?)

 

I do think the digital age has taken something that was once more subtle or intellectual and made it... It's like it taps a special cerebral aspect that I think has a drug addiction affect. I think porn should be warned against just as stridently and with just as much fear for human health as meth or heroin. I am uncertain, but suspect, it is just as dangerous to "try it once" or to have other major emotional/mental health issues and add it to the mix as for those other things.

[Guest]

This is a very, very unpopular opinion, but I paraphrased Andrea Dworkin's thoughts (not what people said about her thoughts) to one teenaged son and another teenaged boy who I was responsible for:

 

http://www.nostatusquo.com/ACLU/dworkin/PornHappens.html

 

This is my problem with pornography--neither I nor Dworkin is anti-sex or anti-male. I would have the same problems with material that objectified men.

 

Neither of my boys grew up to be porn users, abusive boyfriends, or johns(to the best of my knowledge) and both of them have had healthy, respectful, appropriate romantic relationships as adults. I have not brought the subject up with 8yods, aka "the baby" yet, but will probably do so when he is between 9-13 years old.

 

I was horrified when ds now-24's sweet, innocent, then 10 year old friend practically destroyed his Windows 98 computer by using it to look at porn so I know better than to wait much longer to bring this up with "the baby".

 

I make a distinction between erotica and porn. I define erotica as respectful but explicit fictionalized depictions of romantic encounters between consenting adults and have no problems with a tween being interested in those kinds of stories or curious about anatomy.

 

I could talk about absolutely anything with ds-now 24 between the ages of 9-14. We read and discussed every word of "Angela's Ashes", including the excitement in the attic and the scene on the top of the mountain, because it was just life and we had already had to address much more difficult subjects together in the past.

 

The window of opportunity for that slammed shut very abruptly when the hormones kicked in and the scrappy, wiry, little 4'10" young teenager's growth spurt kicked into high gear and messed with his mind the way menopause might be messing with yours as you read these words.

 

I'm glad that you are addressing this issue with your sons even though we may not agree about all of the details.

 

ETA: I am not going to post a link to Rebecca Mott's blog on a Christian homeschooling forum because it is way, way too explicit, but she writes about the life she escaped and her public posts are very toned down compared with what she has shared on private forums which is undoubtedly toned down considerably from what she has to live with for THE REST OF HER LIFE.

 

She is a very, very courageous woman. Please google her if you still think that porn is fun and I am a bible thumping old fuddy-duddy.

Edited March 11, 2016 by Guest

[Bluegoat]

But people have been producing erotic art for literally thousands of years, if not longer. Erotic art, erotic stories, erotic art paired with erotic stories.... They didn't have cameras, but they drew what they liked to see. Some of the earliest printed books are pornographic. Some of the earliest written works are pornographic. It's often stated, with some justification, that every advance in communication is rapidly adopted for use in helping people get off.

 

 

Sex has always been a consumer product. That's why "the oldest profession" isn't the stone masons.

 

Porn has been around, but not nearly as accesible or ubiquitous.  The earliest printed books belonged to the very rich, and most other people couldn't read any stories in them.

 

I think to be a "consumer product" it needs to be in a consumerist society - one that is based around the idea of consuming and citizens as being primarily consumers.  Arguably we aren't the only one that has ever existed, but it hasn't been the most common and we've taken it to pretty significant extremes.  As well, at least in our consumerist society, it isn't just that sex is actually bought and sold, it is that it is used a great deal to sell other things.  I can go to the mall and see sex being "sold" to me everywhere, though I couldn't actually pay for a prostitute or even porn.

[TranquilMind]

You can't switch between "porn" and "porn industry" as if that's not conflating things. I eat meat and enjoy it (edit: when I can obtain pastured, organic meat). I believe the meat industry in the US right now is pretty gross.

Are you suggesting there is healthy, high quality, organic porn that is good for you - not to be confused with the "porn industry"? 

 

;)

[TranquilMind]

This is a very, very unpopular opinion, but I paraphrased Andrea Dworkin's thoughts (not what people said about her thoughts) to one teenaged son and another teenaged boy who I was responsible for:

 

http://www.nostatusquo.com/ACLU/dworkin/PornHappens.html

 

This is my problem with pornography--neither I nor Dworkin is anti-sex or anti-male. I would have the same problems with material that objectified men.

 

Neither of my boys grew up to be porn users, abusive boyfriends, or johns(to the best of my knowledge) and both of them have had healthy, respectful, appropriate romantic relationships as adults. I have not brought the subject up with 8yods, aka "the baby" yet, but will probably do so when he is between 9-13 years old.

 

I was horrified when ds now-24's sweet, innocent, then 10 year old friend practically destroyed his Windows 98 computer by using it to look at porn so I know better than to wait much longer to bring this up with "the baby".

 

I make a distinction between erotica and porn. I define erotica as respectful but explicit fictionalized depictions of romantic encounters between consenting adults and have no problems with a tween being interested in those kinds of stories or curious about anatomy.

 

I could talk about absolutely anything with ds-now 24 between the ages of 9-14. We read and discussed every word of "Angela's Ashes", including the excitement in the attic and the scene on the top of the mountain, because it was just life and we had already had to address much more difficult subjects together in the past.

 

The window of opportunity for that slammed shut very abruptly when the hormones kicked in and the scrappy, wiry, little 4'10" young teenager's growth spurt kicked into high gear and messed with his mind the way menopause might be messing with yours as you read these words.

 

I'm glad that you are addressing this issue with your sons even though we may not agree about all of the details.

 

ETA: I am not going to post a link to Rebecca Mott's blog on a Christian homeschooling forum because it is way, way too explicit, but she writes about the life she escaped and her public posts are very toned down compared with what she has shared on private forums which is undoubtedly toned down considerably from what she has to live with for THE REST OF HER LIFE.

 

She is a very, very courageous woman. Please google her if you still think that porn is fun and I am a bible thumping old fuddy-duddy.

Well, Dworkin IS kind of anti-male.  I remember her from decades ago.

I make no distinction between erotica and porn. Same darn thing and you are kidding yourself to say that one is ok because it is consumed by consent. 

 

Now you have made me curious and I have to google Rebecca Mott.    If she came out of the porn industry, I've heard those stories, as a woman came to our church to tell us what it was really like. 

[Joanne]

 

 

ETA: I am not going to post a link to Rebecca Mott's blog on a Christian homeschooling forum because it is way, way too explicit, but she writes about the life she escaped and her public posts are very toned down compared.

This is not a Christian homeschooling forum.