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Sooo torn... help me decide.


My3girls
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Background: Dh is being transferred to HI. He'll leave about mid-June. I'm choosing to stay back a year to 18 months for Dd1 to finish out her orthodontic treatment.

 

Option 1: Send all household goods over with dh. Sell the house. Buy an RV and travel, coming home for a day or 2 every 6-8 weeks for othodontist appointments. Kids would give up all extra-Curriculars until we got to HI, obviously.

 

Option 2: Just stay in the house and go on a couple of small vacations like normal.

 

Option 3: Do the rv thing but stay stationary here while extra-Curriculars are going on then take big trips on breaks... 4 weeks in summer, 6 weeks in winter, plus a week for spring break. We could also take little trips here and there for just 3-4 days as we felt like it.

 

Dd1 wants to do marching band, Dd3 wants to play baseball, and none of them want to leave friends. I'm afraid once we get to HI our travels will be extremely limited because of the expense. Every trip to the maInland will probably be to see family, kwim? Dh will pretty much support any decision I make since it really doesn't affect him, but thinks I'll go nuts with 3 girls in an rv for 18 months. Unfortunately, keeping the house and buying an rv is not one of my options.

Edited by My3girls
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We'd sell the rv when we were ready to go to HI. The braces aren't specialized, but it's really hard to find an orthodontist to take a transfer 1/2 way through treatment that won't charge a ridiculous amount.

But wouldn't that still be cheaper than having two households?
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If it were only a few months, I would stay in the house.  A year and a half is a long time.  I would move to Hawaii and find an orthodontist there.

 

I wouldn't move into an RV.  I know of two couples who retired into RVs and had lots of expenses in unexpected repairs.

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We're not going to HI right away. That decision has already been made. There are more reasons than just braces. Braces define our timeline, though. I don't want to be homeless with the kids and trying to organize that large of a move and finding a place, etc... Send him, he finds a place, send stuff, he receives stuff, then we tie up loose ends here and go. Plus we've had 2 households for 5 years because of his job so that part isn't an issue. Also, I really hope, secretly, that in that 1-1.5 years that he'll get transferred back mainland so we don't have to go at all.

 

So take money out of the decision process. This is about living accommodations, travel, happy kids, happy life.

Edited by My3girls
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Ok, then, I would stay put and take vacations. It would be too hard for me parenting 3 kids alone with dh so far away, a move imminent and away from their activities and friends. It would feel like the move was taking 12-18 months and that would drive me crazy. If you are more spontaneous than I am, ymmv.

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I would stay put. They want their friends and activities, and might be a bit resentful (or frustrated) when the novelty of RV life wore off. Selling the house and moving into an apartment might be a better option if you want to save money and get the household goods sent over.

 

Sorry to be an RV-freewheelin' dream crusher, but I wouldn't do it. We went vagabond for a year, accompanying my husband around the country for med school rotations (in the army). It was fun, we learned a lot, but I won't do it again because my kids are older and need their community and stability more than I do. Good luck with your decisions.

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Ah, o.k.

 

Based on that, I would point out that shipping stuff to HI is usually expensive.  Might it be a better option, especially if you are hoping not to move at all, to maybe sell the house, move into an apartment, sell off anything you don't really need, ship only the things that your DH cannot easily get cheaper in HI and live in the same area you are already in?  I think that would be much easier/cheaper in the long run and far less disruptive to the kids than RV living for a year or more with three kids.  If you end up having to move, there is less to deal with and if you don't end up moving you don't have to pay to have everything shipped back again, only the things that DH was using that you or he are especially attached to or would be hard to replace.

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I'd either stay in the house and carry on as usual, or move to HI right away (or give DH a few weeks lead to find housing and then move).

I don't see how traveling around in an RV is any less stressful than moving to HI and scouting out housing there.

 

I don't quite understand this

 

 

I'm afraid once we get to HI our travels will be extremely limited because of the expense.

 

If I were in HI, I'd travel there - there's a lot to see for a few years. Obviously I would not choose the time I lived in HI to explore the mainland.

Edited by regentrude
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Assuming you have experience with RVs (aware of repair/upkeep needs, have stayed in one at least a week so you truly know how tiny they are) I would stay stationary in the RV. Kids get to keep their friends and activities and you get a mobile home that can aid in lots of spontaneous weekend trips. Not to mention the bigger break trips.

 

But I'm an adventurer ;). I'm also used to a tiny house and spend 1-2 weeks in a tent in the woods (aka w/out running water) every summer and call it vacation. I'll

Assume since you are even considering it, you are an adventurer too. I wish I had the chance to live in an RV for a year!!

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I guess the only way I'd stay would be to stay in the same house doing the same things. Otherwise, I can't imagine why I wouldn't move to HI with dh.

Have you ever lived on an island? There are lots of reasons to not move. I'm really hoping that it's a short lived assignment, and we don't have to go. Since we most likely will, I want to get in as much travelling as possible before we go into exile.

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Ah, o.k.

 

Based on that, I would point out that shipping stuff to HI is usually expensive. Might it be a better option, especially if you are hoping not to move at all, to maybe sell the house, move into an apartment, sell off anything you don't really need, ship only the things that your DH cannot easily get cheaper in HI and live in the same area you are already in? I think that would be much easier/cheaper in the long run and far less disruptive to the kids than RV living for a year or more with three kids. If you end up having to move, there is less to deal with and if you don't end up moving you don't have to pay to have everything shipped back again, only the things that DH was using that you or he are especially attached to or would be hard to replace.

His company pays for shipping so no expense to us. I'd rather he had it than store it or sell it.

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Have you ever lived on an island? There are lots of reasons to not move. I'm really hoping that it's a short lived assignment, and we don't have to go. Since we most likely will, I want to get in as much travelling as possible before we go into exile.

It sounds like you have had some bad experiences living on an island?  If so, was it Hawaii?  Everyone has different experiences.  Some people would jump at the chance to go to Hawaii.  However, it sounds like you have very, very strong negative feelings.  Are they based on your own personal experience?  This really is a tough situation.  Your reaction is quite strong.  I am sorry you and your DH are having to deal with this situation, and I wish you the best in trying to find a good path for all involved.   :grouphug:  :grouphug:  :grouphug:

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Scrolled down and read this part.

 

I'd still go. It's not going to take him 12-18 months to find a house. Perhaps be content with an apartment for a while, so you can all be together. Better yet, you can all look together. You say you're "not content to be homeless"... yet you're willing to drive them all over the country in a tiny RV. Also, you can secretly hope he gets transferred back - what happens when he doesnt? You don't get that time back with him, nor do your kids. What's more important to them - having their friends around or having their father around?

 

Sorry, I'm really not trying to be harsh, but I've learned the hard way that life can throw drastic curveballs, and I would do every single thing in my power to keep my family together - at ALL costs. There is nothing, absolutely NOTHING, that is more important.

I guess I can see your point. However, we've lived the military then DoD contractor life our entire relationship. We've lived together full time a total of 7 years non-consecutively out of the 18 we've been together. So the time apart really isn't a big issue for us. He'll come visit for a couple of weeks wherever we are a few times during this period. My concern is taking kids away from their social life and activities and living in a small space for that long. Just wanted to see what others thoughts were. Most everyone seems stuck on the money and dh being away from us which really aren't our decision makers on this so I'll let this die.

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His company pays for shipping so no expense to us. I'd rather he had it than store it or sell it.

Ah, that makes sense financially.   You increase the risk of damage to your stuff but if the company insures it or you can pay for insurance, then taking the shipping costs out of the equation does make shipping to HI a better option if there is any chance you will all be moving there eventually.

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It sounds like you have had some bad experiences living on an island? If so, was it Hawaii? Everyone has different experiences. Some people would jump at the chance to go to Hawaii. However, it sounds like you have very, very strong negative feelings. Are they based on your own personal experience? This really is a tough situation. Your reaction is quite strong. I am sorry you and your DH are having to deal with this situation, and I wish you the best in trying to find a good path for all involved. :grouphug: :grouphug: :grouphug:

No, not Hawaii, but Okinawa. It's fun for the first little bit, but the inability to visit family is very hard. Plus, once you've seen everything and there's nothing new, it gets boring.

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Ah, that makes sense financially. You increase the risk of damage to your stuff but if the company insures it or you can pay for insurance, then taking the shipping costs out of the equation does make shipping to HI a better option if there is any chance you will all be moving there eventually.

Yes, insurance is a part of the deal.

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I guess I can see your point. However, we've lived the military then DoD contractor life our entire relationship. We've lived together full time a total of 7 years non-consecutively out of the 18 we've been together. So the time apart really isn't a big issue for us. He'll come visit for a couple of weeks wherever we are a few times during this period. My concern is taking kids away from their social life and activities and living in a small space for that long. Just wanted to see what others thoughts were. Most everyone seems stuck on the money and dh being away from us which really aren't our decision makers on this so I'll let this die.

Based on everything you have posted it seems, honestly, that just staying where you currently are makes the most sense.  

 

As to RV or apartment, unless you have done longish term RV living and have a lot of experience with that, I would go with renting an apartment, keeping the kids where they are at and letting them be in the extras they wanted.

 

Or I guess you could rent an RV for a bit, to see how it goes, at least while the house sells.  If it doesn't work out, you can rent an apartment later.

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Yeah....the idea of living in and traveling around in an RV SOUNDS glorious.  But in realty?  Not so much.  At least...not with kids.  

 

I mean...do you have the ability to deal with breakdowns?  Will you be doing the driving?  Who will be doing the parenting?  And the schooling?  And the planning for the schooling?  And let's not forget the planning for the move!

 

That's an awful lot to put on your plate.  

 

 

As for the idea of not really wanting to move to HI...everybody is entitled to their own opinion.  My husband could have had an opportunity (albeit slight) to move to HI...possibly even retire out there, because the company he works for has several locations on a couple of the islands.  Me?  Totally not on board.  It would be fun for a few days...but to live out there?  Thanks.  No.  

 

But that's me.  

 

Honestly...I do agree with others that maintaining the family unit should be a priority.  In your case...your family structure is different and this has been a norm for you.  I can't say that it would work for me.  (It wouldn't).  But again...ymmv!  

 

 

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An apartment would actually be more expensive than keeping the house or getting an rv so that's not something we've seriously considered. The only up to the apartment would be the maintenance free aspect, but I'm not willing to pay that much for it.

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An apartment would actually be more expensive than keeping the house or getting an rv so that's not something we've seriously considered. The only up to the apartment would be the maintenance free aspect, but I'm not willing to pay that much for it.

Hmmm, interesting.  Well, then I would keep the house.  Especially if there is a chance he is coming back, you would continue to build up equity in the home and your kids would have stability (if they like stability).

 

Or, have you actually traveled in an RV before?  Like maybe on an extended vacation?  Are you pretty good with vehicle repairs?  If so, and you and the kids are really looking at the RV as a cool adventure and really want the RV, I guess I would get the RV, stay put for extracurriculars at a local RV park or something but travel when possible.

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I vote 2. Stay put and take vacations if it will make your kids happy.

 

And I get where you're coming from. I grew up in a military family. We stayed put quite a bit so the oldest ones could finish high school without being uprooted. Then later we stayed put so I could finish school while my dad was stationed in Puerto Rico for a couple years. He came home to visit. We went there to visit. It was fine. Really. ;)

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Have no idea what you should pick, although it does sound like from the additional info you provided that staying put would be the least disruptive to 4 of the 5 of you… I will also add that from seeing several other homeschooling families with military or traveling husband, that by high school, it does become increasingly important for teens to have some stability in order to participate in extracurriculars and make local friends...

 

Just to give you some real-life experience with RV-ing, to help you decide about options #1 and #3...

 

 

We were back-packers early in our marriage, and then car-campers with a tent when DSs were younger, and it's fun -- for 3-5 days. (We did it a LOT -- usually half a dozen trips a year when DSs were younger.) And then it's GREAT to get back HOME again.

 

When DSs were in high school, we bought a hybrid RV travel trailer and pulled it with our Suburban and took an extended trip. My thoughts:

 

You absolutely have to love and want the RV lifestyle -- which includes lots of unexpected expenses, repairs, and changing flat tires. Plus the constant set-up/tear-down. We did a 3-week trip in ours, which was great fun, BUT, DH and DSs did all the set-up while I did the meal prep and cooking and set-up for beds. DH also did all of the repairs and changing of flat tires -- we had THREE in 3 weeks, two of which required buying new tires, barely managing to find a tire place still open late Sat. afternoon. (Weirdly, 2 of the 3 flat tires happened within 2 hours of all the stores being shut down until Monday morning…)

 
RV-ing is not much cheaper than driving and getting a motel room or paying for a camping site, because you have to pay for every site you park at -- anywhere from $25 to $75 a night, depending on the site. Not all of them have all of the amenities (like, water or electricity hook-ups).
 
Usually the showers at the RV sites are coin-operated, so if possible, you double up if you can, or have your kids double up, and you all shower FAST. If your RV has a shower, it's probably a 10-gallon tank which takes several hours for your propane tank to heat up, so your showers are even faster -- turn on get wet turn off soap up turn on rinse off hop out, next person -- because 4 of you are trying to shower on 10 gallons of hot water. ;) Also, you have to find a laundrymat every so often and spend an afternoon (and lots of coins) sitting and reading a book waiting on your laundry.
 
Another unexpectedly high expense was gas -- Gas was SUPER high right when we were taking that trip, and in a few places where we had to get over a mountain range, our mileage dropped into single digit miles-per-gallon, so we were filling up 4 times a day when traveling for 8-10 hours… So what we might have saved in $$ on a motel was totally eaten up by gas costs and paying for the RV sites.
 
Also, no one tells you how big and scary it is to drive those things, and esp. to back them up to park them. Rough stretches of highway are not fun, there are FAR more steep hills and narrow roads than you would believe possible, and crosswinds are very frightening (a friend actually had the wind shove them and their travel trailer into the next lane over while on the interstate, thankfully NOT when there was a semi right there). Getting around is not necessarily simple, as, if your RV is  a travel trailer, you have to park somewhere and detach it in order to use your towing vehicle separately; and if it's an all in one RV, then you have to be fine with driving and parking it where ever you go because your "house" IS your vehicle -- unless you tow your vehicle behind the RV for casual driving once you reach your destination -- but that presents other challenges of its own...
 
Also, the depreciation on RVs and travel trailers is murderous -- even if you only have it for 6 months to a year, expect to only make back about half what you paid for it. Really, an RV is a boat on wheels -- and you know that people describe boats as a hole you throw money into… So that's why I started off by saying you *really* have to love the RV lifestyle, because it's not about saving money while traveling, but it's about living a particular lifestyle -- in the same way that camping or motorcycle touring is really all about living a particular lifestyle. :)
 
 
Don't get me wrong -- we LOVED that trip. But I would NOT have wanted to do it without DH -- at least, not with an RV. It would have been so much easier and faster, and not that much more expensive to just drive, enjoy seeing stuff, staying in a motel or campsite, and then heading home again after a few days or a few weeks.
 
I'm not at all trying to dissuade you from RV-ing -- but I personally would have liked to have known a lot of these things *before* we jumped in and bought one. Or at least would have preferred renting one first to see if we *really* wanted to invest in one.
 
BEST of luck in all the upcoming changes, whatever you decide! Warmest regards, Lori D.
 
 
PS -- re: living in an RV rather than your house
You still have to have someplace to park the RV and hook it up to water, electricity and sewer dumping. I don't know what RV sites are like where you are, but out West where we are, you can only stay at RV sites for up to 2 weeks, and then you have to move. There are only certain types of RV sites that are month-to-month or longer term. A friend of ours lived in our RV for a month, and when we researched in advance for him the locations that rent-by-the-month or for longer term, they weren't much less than what the monthly rent on a cheap apartment runs out here… :( The least expensive sites were on the outskirts of the city; places in town were about twice as much. So you would definitely want to check into RV site fees and compare costs if you were thinking you would live in the RV rather than your house or an apt.
Edited by Lori D.
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Usually the showers are coin-operated, so if possible, you double up if you can, or have your kids double up, and you all shower FAST. If your RV has a shower, it's probably a 10-gallon tank which takes several hours for your propane tank to heat up, so your showers are even faster -- turn on get wet turn off soap up turn on rinse off hop out, next person -- because 4 of you are trying to shower on 10 gallons of hot water. ;)

 

 

Well. That part right there pretty much just ruined my plans of ever RVing, lol. Do you know how long it takes to wash curly hair? More than ten gallons of time, that's for sure.

 

I suppose if you have a Y membership, you could take advantage of their Away program and find a Y to shower at....

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I don't get why you can't transfer orthodontists.  We did it and it was fine. Just make sure you choose an experienced, well regarded orthodontist with good references from several local dentists and you will be fine!!!  I'm sure there are orthodontists in Hawaii.  In fact, my son had so much work done in our old state that we really loved our old ortho and we plan to send his office a picture of my son's completed braces 3 years later. :o)  They will be thrilled to see the final result. (My son had 5.5 years of ortho work)

 

:o)

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I don't get why you can't transfer orthodontists.  We did it and it was fine. Just make sure you choose an experienced, well regarded orthodontist with good references from several local dentists and you will be fine!!!  I'm sure there are orthodontists in Hawaii.  In fact, my son had so much work done in our old state that we really loved our old ortho and we plan to send his office a picture of my son's completed braces 3 years later. :o)  They will be thrilled to see the final result. (My son had 5.5 years of ortho work)

 

:o)

Well, she really doesn't want to move to HI.  It isn't just the ortho.  She is hoping DH will get to come back.  They are waiting on the ortho work to be done as a time line for determining when they just end up having to go anyway, I think.

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Oh, I see.  Well I would say if there is a chance that dh would come back, and you can afford to visit him often, and you REALLY think your marriage will not suffer in any way, then I would rather just stay in your house than to go RVing.

 

RVing...the shower issues alone would cause a revolt...the idea of breaking down...the idea of cleaning out the poop tank and filling up the water tank....all that kind of stuff would be, to me, a whole lot of stress.  Even just finding a place to camp at can be very difficult in certain areas, and it can be unsafe to be in a campground alone with kiddos night after night.  If you choose an RV camp where there are people living full time (and thereby safer and a sense of community), then you will either pay a VERY high lot rent fee, or you will be stuck with some pretty colorful characters...

 

 

Hope those are some thoughts...to me staying grounded makes sense or going to Hawii for the sake of your hubby makes sense.  

 

 

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Based on all of the above, I vote Option 2.  Keep the house and go on with life as normal.  Kids can do their activities, their orthodontist treatments, you can take some small vacations.  

 

Actually, based on all of the above, I wonder why you are even considering anything else.  If you really feel like being in an RV for a bit, rent one for one of your small vacations.  Don't make it a lifestyle, just a few days.

 

Best wishes!

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Sending all household goods if you have much at all would be expensive, so if you really hope HI is only temporary, I'd not take that option.  Does your dh know you are hoping that it is only temporary or is that something you feel but have not mentioned?

 

I'd either stay in the house with visits back and forth with DH--though that doesn't sound great to me for family reasons esp. if it is not certain to have an end in 18 mos, and has already been happening--or if you like the house and hope that HI is temporary and would want to continue in same house, but are willing to temporarily live in in HI, then go with DH to HI for the 18 months, but rent in HI and maybe rent out your house...or even see if you can do a trade with someone who needs to be on mainland for that time and has a house in HI. Professors and so on sometimes do trades like that foR sabbatical years.

 

And I'd rather have/live on a sailboat than an RV. Though at this stage in my life, a house is better.

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Option 2. 

 

I am friends with military people and they're like you: living separately much more than together.  They've been fine with it.  I think it's hard on the kids as the kids get older not to have a dad around, but I the marriage seems to work.

 

The RVing sounds like a humongous hassle.  Stay in the house and go on vacations like normal.

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If it were me, I'd follow DH to Hawaii and just deal with living on an island for a few years.  SInce that is not an option for you, my second choice would be to keep living in the house and carry on life as normal.  I would want to take a few month-long trips to visit DH in that length of time, and several trips of him visiting me and the kids. 

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Coming from a wife of someone who was in the submarine force for the first several years of our marriage (less than 30 days together in the first 3 years), I understand where you are coming from on the separation stuff. (There were times with oodles of small children that I thought we communicated more & better when he was out to sea than in the same room with screaming children.)

 

I vote Option 2. Stay where you & the kids have friends & a support structure. Take vacations as normal. I wouldn't upend things more than that.

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Well. That part right there pretty much just ruined my plans of ever RVing, lol. Do you know how long it takes to wash curly hair? More than ten gallons of time, that's for sure...

 

I just keep thinking of the showers and the poop tank.  Am I a wimp?

 

:laugh:  LOL! You guys are hilarious! :) 

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I would not want to RV without my husband! I think that 12-18 months without him would be stressful enough, without being on the road with an RV and three reluctant kids. An RV can break down, could need repairs, does need regular maintenance (poop tank?), and somehow doesn't feel as "safe" to me as a house does. I just would not want the stress of having sold my house and being "stuck" in an RV with three girls (I have three girls). No way.

 

But I'm a homebody. :)

 

I would stay home. Knowing that we'd have to sell the house, I would fix it up to the best it could be (for the market we're in), and really declutter our stuff (so there'd be less to pack, move, store). I would just try to enjoy the time I had left in my house, before having to move, and try to prepare myself emotionally and mentally for the changes ahead.

 

If I didn't really want to move to HI (permanently), I would look into the possibility of renting out our house, instead of selling it.

 

I would stay local, keep the girls in the activities and friendships and routine they know, as much as possible. I would spend as much time as we could with family, since you will likely not see them much once you move. I would also try to recruit local friends and family to pitch in while hubby's gone, if they were available and willing. Even just chauffeuring one daughter once a week might be a help to you.

 

I'd also start to expect more from the girls, in terms of helping around the house, and put in place as much practical know-how as we could. I'd try to emotionally prepare them for their father not being around for a long time. Not sure how to do that, actually. Since they're losing him, I would not also expect them to lose their home, friends, activities, and routine as well. That would be so.... upsetting.

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Man, I had no idea RVs were so hated, lol. Granted I've only really been in one for one 3 week trot around Canada. Not full-time. I went with my grandmother in law, and 3 kids- all under 5. But I had fun! We never broke down, we washed our hair in the sink, we did our laundry about once a week at a laundromat (it was faster work than at home because we could load 6 giant machines at once) and we felt perfectly safe at every stopping point.

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Man, I had no idea RVs were so hated, lol. Granted I've only really been in one for one 3 week trot around Canada. Not full-time. I went with my grandmother in law, and 3 kids- all under 5. But I had fun! We never broke down, we washed our hair in the sink, we did our laundry about once a week at a laundromat (it was faster work than at home because we could load 6 giant machines at once) and we felt perfectly safe at every stopping point.

 

Sorry I gave the impression of hating the RV trip -- because the trip itself was GREAT! SO glad we did it, and we'd do it again -- it was a fun adventure. Other than the multiple flat tires we were fine. We met really nice people at the RV sites. And we really enjoyed the locations and sight-seeing at the places we stopped at. Just like all of our various camping and backpacking trips were great fun, with a sprinkling of unexpected adventures and the occasional near-disaster -- just enough to have fun stories and memories to share. :)

 

I just was trying to share that there is another side to RV-ing, because we were sweep away with the idea of it -- the romance and adventure of traveling with our own little house of wheels -- and bought an RV and set out on our trip all without knowing the other side to it until we experienced it -- just like with home-owning. ;)

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I understand a lot of your situation, as a former military wife whose husband recently retired after 20 years.

 

We spent the last of those 11 years stationed in Hawai'i, and when we moved there we had to transfer my eldest daughter into orthodontics.  Luckily, our dentist on the mainland had a recommendation for us.  Long story short, we interviewed that orthodontist (as well as one other) and went with him - Steven Tottori in Kapolei, on the west side of Oahu.  He did a beautiful job with both my eldest and our second daughter . . .  complete round of braces for each.  I have sent other patients to him as well, who were happy with him.

 

Just in case this helps.  I have no affiliation with Dr. Tottori, but am just trying to share a recommendation if it helps.  I'm a big fan of trying to keep the family together.  I was never the world's biggest fan of Hawai'i, and was ready to leave after 11 years, but it was a wonderful adventure to live there.  All four of my kids have extremely fond memories of their time there.

 

Best wishes to you, and let me know if I can help with any questions.

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We just completed a cross country move last year with three kids and a dog. It took six months for our house to sell, and then we stayed with my in laws for two months in a condo before we got into a house again. It was exhausting, and those two months in a condo in one bedroom even on a tourist island became cramped pretty quickly. My opinion is that 18 months in an RV without activities or their normal routine or their father is a LOT of transition for kids who need that sense of normalcy after a while. Other things can come up like medical emergencies and weather that can make it really unbearable.

 

I would definitely rule out option one, and I would choose option two, especially if you are considering an RV during winter. Those close quarters after a few months will become really cramped.

 

One other possible option is to stay in your house for a year or so like normal and then sell and rent or buy and sell an RV for a long three month or so trip at the end if you want to travel. Maybe Dad could even join for a few weeks.

 

I wonder if the higher cost of ortho treatment in HI would be a wash in the end with all the other things you are considering.

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