Your Webster's Speller questions answered, ask any you have here

[ElizabethB]

It has been a while since I've had a Webster's Speller thread.  I've had a few people PM me questions lately, and now I have time to answer, so ask away here!!

 

Here is a link with the guide to how to incorporate and teach Webster into your basic phonics teaching, it tells you how to teach the syllables and exactly what to say, the guide is link #1.  It was written for group teaching but can be used one on one.

 

http://www.thephonicspage.org/On%20Reading/WellTaughtPhonicsStudent.html

 

You overreach the syllables until they can sound them out in lists and any of them in isolation and in contrasting pairs: ip, pi; on, no; um, mu.  They also need to be able to spell the syllables, but you can move one while working on the spelling as long as they can sound them all out.  Syllables ending in a consonant are short, syllables ending in a vowel are long, with y saying i like in by.  The a syllables say long a as in taken, not ah as in the words ma or pa.  When they are in words, these say long a as in maker and paper.

 

I personally like Blend Phonics or another good phonics program better than Webster for 1 syllable words for a beginning student, but it is fine for review.  

 

Then, you need to teach schwa and how schwa interacts with unaccented syllables.  A YouTube movie I just made explains this and features my son as the voice of Pluto!  My daughter helped me learn how to make the YouTube thumbnail, it is amazing what you can make on a phone or iPad now...it used to take a powerful computer with $1,000+ software, now you can make cool stuff with a few $2 apps on a phone!!  (I have been busy making videos, but have this month's video out of the way early and now have time to answer questions.)

 

 

Now, handling corrections and oddities:

 

If the word is ti-ler and they say tiller, flip back to the syllabary and have them read the whole row of t syllables, "ta te ti to tu ty."  Then, point at ti.  Then, flip back to the word ti-ler and point at ti.  Then, let them sound out the whole word "ti-ler."  

 

Here is an example: har-mo-ni-ous.  The letter i can be long i when it ends a syllable or have the sound it has in romance languages such as Latin and Spanish, long e.  Just say, "in this word i has its long e sound."  Sometimes unaccented syllables in the middle of a 3+ syllable word schwa, sometimes they retain their sound.  If they schwa and the student does not know the word or schwa the syllable, tell them that syllable usually schwas in that word.  Also, in the word harmonious, the letter o in -ous is italicized to show that it is silent and it just says "us."

 

In 10 - 15 minutes a day you can finish the book in a year, 12th grade level words by the end.  In 5 - 10 minutes a day you can finish in 2 years and are at 8th grade level words by the end of the 1st year.  I have the schedule written out longhand but only the first 4 weeks in Excel so far.

 

Edited March 4, 2016 by ElizabethB

[ElizabethB]

Here is a direct link to Don Potter's Webster PDF:

 

http://www.donpotter.net/pdf/websterspellingbookmethod.pdf

 

One of the questions is how much spelling to do and how much reading.  With my daughter, she was in K when I used it, I had her read about 10 to 20 words for every word I had her spell.  My son did it a bit later and was as good at spelling as reading, he spelled a few more words.  But, with both of them, once they got to 2+ syllable words they spelled a lot less and mainly did reading, and I had them spell even less 3+ syllable words because they were both too young to be able to spell that long of a word, but were capable of reading them.  

 

There was also a question about the r syllables.  In table 6, they are ar as in car, er as in her, ir as in first, or as in corn, ur as in nurse.  Sometimes they are presented differently in other words.  At the end of words, -ar is often air as in planetary. This long a sound is shown by dividing the a to show that it is long as in plan-et-a-ry.  Sometimes Webster divides the -r sounds differently that I would pronounce them--but he lived in the Northeast and he wrote it 100+ years ago, so he may follow a bit of this pronunciation.  Just explain how it is actually pronounced and that the might have had a bit of a British/Boston/Connecticut accent.  Just explain how it actually works and that this is just an aid to figuring out how to pronounce long words, and that people in different parts of the country even today pronounce words slightly differently, and that British, Australian, Canadian English are slightly different as well.  Also, I think the short vowel sound above the er is used to not show the short e sound, but the long a sound as in air, I will ask Don Potter for confirmation of that.

Edited March 4, 2016 by ElizabethB

[Rosie_0801]

Ah. How fortuitous! I've been on the brink of wondering how to teach dd about schwa properly. I shall reread all this in the morning. :)

[Soror]

Thank you! I've been having ds go through some of your stuff as late working on some missed skills, we're currently reading through the leveled word lists in Webster's we were doing Schwa's yesterday.

[Michelle in MD]

Thank you--I have followed your posts for many years and have used bits & pieces as I was able to understand them.  Now I am eagerly intending to use this approach fully for my final student! 

[Ms.Ivy]

I started using Webster's Speller a few years ago based on your recommendation. I have been using it after Alpha Phonics. I'm definitely a fan! I do a pared down version of how you recommended to use it, and it works well. I think it gives kids the ability to properly read multisyllable words much earlier than what's usually expected nowadays.

 

My 3rd grader is currently working her way through it. She just reads out one page a day to me. It's such a boost for her reading skills.

[barnwife]

This is fabulous...I've been wanting to ask a question about Webster's.

I am using it with my 5.5 yo and a tag-along 4 yo. The 5.5 yo can sound out any syllable in the first 3 tables. Having the vowel first is tripping him up. He seems to do better if I teach a handful of syllables starting with the same short vowel (so ab, ad, af, am, an, at) rather than switching the vowel (so teaching ab, eb, ib, ob, ub). Is teaching them with the same vowel fine if we go back and read the tables once he's got them? 

Or should I stick to the ab, eb, ib, ob, ub pattern?

Whichever way we practice, he often hears a syllable and gives me a CVC word with it. For example, when we read "am" he immediately then said "ham." Obviously we still have a long way to go before CVC words are included in the tables. I've been responding to his CVC words by saying things like "what sound would we have to add to the beginning of 'am' to make it read 'ham'?" I 

I don't want to ignore his connections, but I don't want to rush ahead and cause problems later. Should I change how I respond to him?

Thanks so much for starting this thread and all of your help. 

[ElizabethB]

I started using Webster's Speller a few years ago based on your recommendation. I have been using it after Alpha Phonics. I'm definitely a fan! I do a pared down version of how you recommended to use it, and it works well. I think it gives kids the ability to properly read multisyllable words much earlier than what's usually expected nowadays.

 

My 3rd grader is currently working her way through it. She just reads out one page a day to me. It's such a boost for her reading skills.

One page a day, perfect! For the first year of my schedule they never do more than a half page a day, but the last year, many of the passages sorted out well to a page a day and I figured they should be capable of a page a day by then, that is great to know!!

[ElizabethB]

This is fabulous...I've been wanting to ask a question about Webster's.

 

I am using it with my 5.5 yo and a tag-along 4 yo. The 5.5 yo can sound out any syllable in the first 3 tables. Having the vowel first is tripping him up. He seems to do better if I teach a handful of syllables starting with the same short vowel (so ab, ad, af, am, an, at) rather than switching the vowel (so teaching ab, eb, ib, ob, ub). Is teaching them with the same vowel fine if we go back and read the tables once he's got them?

 

Or should I stick to the ab, eb, ib, ob, ub pattern?

 

Whichever way we practice, he often hears a syllable and gives me a CVC word with it. For example, when we read "am" he immediately then said "ham." Obviously we still have a long way to go before CVC words are included in the tables. I've been responding to his CVC words by saying things like "what sound would we have to add to the beginning of 'am' to make it read 'ham'?"

 

I don't want to ignore his connections, but I don't want to rush ahead and cause problems later. Should I change how I respond to him?

 

Thanks so much for starting this thread and all of your help.

The ab at am pattern is actually a bit tougher for older students, keep going with that!! Eventually you will want to learn the ab eb ib ob ub pattern but the goal is sounding out and spelling all the syllables, so I would keep doing what is working. Also, if he can handle CVC words, no problem adding them in as long as you are spelling them and sounding them out from left to right. If he is not yet caplable of sounding out a CVC word, just write out the CVC word he says and model blending it from left to right. I would say when he reads am and they adds ham, "yes, that rhymes with am, lets look at how it is spelled and how we can sound it out."

 

As long as you are sounding everything out from left to right, you can't go wrong, go with his interests and abilities to make it more fun.

[Ms.Ivy]

One page a day, perfect! For the first year of my schedule they never do more than a half page a day, but the last year, many of the passages sorted out well to a page a day and I figured they should be capable of a page a day by then, that is great to know!!

 

With my daughters, we started out with one column per day and ramped up to one page.  My son (now 10 yrs old) was a late reader and he never did more than a column a day.  We got through tables 1-12 and then this year I switched him over to Don Potter's Wise Owl Polysyllables.  Fewer "big" words and more context was crucial for him.  But now that his reading is taking off, I'll probably have him finish off the later tables in Webster this fall.  

Edited March 4, 2016 by Ms.Ivy

[Rosie_0801]

Well now. :)

 

We're up to vid 21 and the syllable work has been very useful for dd! She's getting over that hump now. :)

 

Though she did throw a tantrum over pterodactyl today. 

 

Pterodactyl is a pretty crazy word though. 

[barnwife]

I am glad this got bumped.

DS can sound out CVC words. He can do the 2 letter syllables. But...blends are a problem due to his speech issues. He drops at least one sound in a blend pretty much all the time. And when he doesn't, the sounds are distorted.

So basically "sled" might come out as "sed" or "swed" or something else. In context when speaking, I know his patterns and can understand him. But, how should I deal with this when it comes to reading? I don't want his speech to hinder his reading.

For now, I've set the blends tables aside for him. I choose one blend every few days and sound it out while he watches/listens. I point out how it's different from a 3 letter word ("sled" is different than "sed") and that when we read we need to get the right sounds in the right places so what we read makes sense.

Thoughts?

[Rosie_0801]

So basically "sled" might come out as "sed" or "swed" or something else. In context when speaking, I know his patterns and can understand him. But, how should I deal with this when it comes to reading? I don't want his speech to hinder his reading.

 

Dd has some problems like this, but I could almost always tell whether she was reading correctly but mispronouncing or whether she was reading incorrectly. I stop at the problematic word and have her practice until she gets it, then move on. Obviously you can't pick on them about every single word, but dd's problems were never that bad. I think if they had been, I would have continued drilling syllables until she could get most of them. Our speech therapist gave me a list of what order sounds are supposed to develop in. She said it is important to work through them in that order, so when I first started drilling dd with the syllabary for speech therapy purposes, I did them in that order instead of Webster's order. 

 

For all I know, though Webster's order is the right order for speakers of American English. Our speech therapist said it varies between dialects.

[MistyMountain]

Oh I will be starting this shortly once school lets out and hopefully I will be able to keep up with 15 minutes a day once school is back in session. I am deciding between getting the book from Amazon or using the Webster link from Don Potter and working from the iPad. I cannot print out that many pages because I am without a printer. I will probably have questions that come up as I did when I first looked it over a while back on why things made the sounds they did.

[ElizabethB]

Oh I will be starting this shortly once school lets out and hopefully I will be able to keep up with 15 minutes a day once school is back in session. I am deciding between getting the book from Amazon or using the Webster link from Don Potter and working from the iPad. I cannot print out that many pages because I am without a printer. I will probably have questions that come up as I did when I first looked it over a while back on why things made the sounds they did.

I find it really handy to be able to write on my copy to explain things, and to mark where we are, especially since I like to do just a few two syllable words and then finish the rest for a break when you hit 3+ syllable words, doing a few lines of hard words and a few lines of easier words a day.

[ElizabethB]

I am glad this got bumped.

 

DS can sound out CVC words. He can do the 2 letter syllables. But...blends are a problem due to his speech issues. He drops at least one sound in a blend pretty much all the time. And when he doesn't, the sounds are distorted.

 

So basically "sled" might come out as "sed" or "swed" or something else. In context when speaking, I know his patterns and can understand him. But, how should I deal with this when it comes to reading? I don't want his speech to hinder his reading.

 

For now, I've set the blends tables aside for him. I choose one blend every few days and sound it out while he watches/listens. I point out how it's different from a 3 letter word ("sled" is different than "sed") and that when we read we need to get the right sounds in the right places so what we read makes sense.

 

Thoughts?

I would work on non blends while modeling blends for a bit longer.  Then, try the blends in syllables so they are easier... and end ind ond und; bla ble bli blo blu, etc.  

 

You can move on to 2 syllable words after you run out of monosyllables without blends, you could do from table 26 lady and holy and bony but skip slimy until you have learned the sl syllables well.

 

It is difficult; the sound of consonants is different in a blend than alone, and they combine slightly differently for each syllable.  The syllables stick together exactly without distortion when you build syllables into words, but letter sounds said in isolation are approximations and they change when combined.  Even ones like vowels and n and m that do not change in sound type are changed in length when combined, shorter when combined than when said individually.

 

I like this website and app for individual sounds, but they change when combined as the mouth and lips and throat make different movements to change from one to another.

 

http://soundsofspeech.uiowa.edu/#

 

I like to explain it like lego blocks.  You snap them together and a bit of the sound that you hear in isolation is sucked up by the next block or sound.

[ElizabethB]

Well now. :)

 

We're up to vid 21 and the syllable work has been very useful for dd! She's getting over that hump now. :)

 

Though she did throw a tantrum over pterodactyl today. 

 

Pterodactyl is a pretty crazy word though. 

:)

 

Pterodactyl is tough.  I teach all the greek sound spelling patterns and make some greek words before tackling words like that with my remedial students.

[gypsymama]

I'd  love to hop in here. I have been browsing your site and Don Potter's for a long time now but always get overwhelmed. I have 3 students I want to use this with.

 

Oldest (10) reads well but needs help with reading multi-syllable words and also improving her spelling. I'm thinking your online lessons using the one month sample schedule would be best for her. Maybe follow up afterwards with Webster's for spelling.

 

Boy (8) can read but suffers from too much sight reading and not enough practice plus low level spelling. I'm thinking online lessons for him at a slower pace plus using Webster's for spelling. 

 

Baby (5) is a beginner and idk what to do with her... Alpha Phonics followed by the BP/Webster's progression? Review letters and sounds then do Webster's alone? I also considered doing the Webster's syllabary then moving on to reading from Webster's plus Word Mastery for spelling with the baby and boy. 

 

Anyways as you can see I'm clearly lost LOL. What would you suggest for these kids and situations? 

 

 

[ElizabethB]

I'd love to hop in here. I have been browsing your site and Don Potter's for a long time now but always get overwhelmed. I have 3 students I want to use this with.

 

Oldest (10) reads well but needs help with reading multi-syllable words and also improving her spelling. I'm thinking your online lessons using the one month sample schedule would be best for her. Maybe follow up afterwards with Webster's for spelling.

 

Boy (8) can read but suffers from too much sight reading and not enough practice plus low level spelling. I'm thinking online lessons for him at a slower pace plus using Webster's for spelling.

 

Baby (5) is a beginner and idk what to do with her... Alpha Phonics followed by the BP/Webster's progression? Review letters and sounds then do Webster's alone? I also considered doing the Webster's syllabary then moving on to reading from Webster's plus Word Mastery for spelling with the baby and boy.

 

Anyways as you can see I'm clearly lost LOL. What would you suggest for these kids and situations?

I would start with Webster's Syllables for them all. The youngest two can play my game together, this will be good nonsense word practice and a fun way to reinforce learning for the youngest. I like Blend Phonics better for monosyllables, and Alpha Phonics is also good if you use it across instead of down most of the time to prevent guessing from word families.

 

The online lessons will make it easier to use Webster with the oldest two, that sounds like a good plan!

Edited May 12, 2016 by ElizabethB

[gypsymama]

Great. Thanks! I love your site and was really excited to see the video lessons. I am sure they will love it. We'll likely be starting Monday :) 

[MistyMountain]

I got my copy of Webster's from Don Potter in the mail. I want to spend my time this summer wisely though. Ds knew his phonograms and has an instructional level of up to grade 3 when reading aloud to me but in his own he reads a little lower. His school test Lexile shows lower though. He can read easy chapter books to me and he knows what he is reading. He gets a few mistakes but within the amount for instructional level. Can I just work on the syllabary and the multi syllable words with him? Maybe I can have him read the first few words of the one syllable lessons just to make sure he has those down.

[ElizabethB]

I got my copy of Webster's from Don Potter in the mail. I want to spend my time this summer wisely though. Ds knew his phonograms and has an instructional level of up to grade 3 when reading aloud to me but in his own he reads a little lower. His school test Lexile shows lower though. He can read easy chapter books to me and he knows what he is reading. He gets a few mistakes but within the amount for instructional level. Can I just work on the syllabary and the multi syllable words with him? Maybe I can have him read the first few words of the one syllable lessons just to make sure he has those down.

That is what I would do. I would also save a fair amount of the 2 and 3 syllable words for when he gets to 4+ syllable words. I put pencil check marks and flags on earlier material, then go back and forth between 4 syllable words for a bit, then 2 syllable words for a bit. You could work the monosyllables in that way, too. After the syllabary, go straight to multisyllable words and when they get hard, go back to the monosyllables for a break.

Edited May 20, 2016 by ElizabethB