Moderately accelerated kid - looking for curriculum advice :)

[ondreeuh]

My youngest is in 2nd grade. We homeschool through our district's correspondence school, so he is enrolled in PS yet I choose curriculum and do all the teaching. We chose this option because we get a generous allotment, plus it's a great community with opportunities for field trips, classes, and clubs. We got a head start in academics and he is a fast learner, so he we have been able to accelerate pretty easily. Honestly the thing that does hold him back is his focus - he is VERY ADHD and keeps outgrowing his dosage of meds.

 

Anyway, our district has TAG summer day camps, so I referred him for testing to see if he qualifies. He did the MAP test and scored in the 99th percentile for reading and LA and 98th for math (while not surprising to me, it does feel nice to get external validation that he's mastered the material). So now he's on the list to get the Woodcock-Johnson test to determine eligibility for TAG and camp.

 

Looking at the MAP scoring info, it looks like he has the achievement score of students quite a few grades ahead. If I understand the MAP correctly, because it is adaptive, the same test is given to all kids so grade-level equivalents are easy to determine. His reading score was 228 which is higher than the score for on-level 11th graders - is that right? His LA test was done today and the teacher who oversaw it said she thought he got a 230, which is off the charts as well. Math was 213 which falls between 4th and 5th grade averages.

 

I could use some guidance on how this could direct our curriculum. It seems with these MAP scores I should be bumping up his levels next year. This year he has done Calvert 3 and done very well with the LA which is quite writing-heavy (lots of 5-paragraph essays). He is a natural speller and picks up grammar so easily, so that part has been extremely easy for him. For extra LA this year we have skimmed through most of Moving Beyond the Page's 7-9 level and I plan on using 8-10 next year which has some meaty writing. He reads a lot on his own and listens to tons of audiobooks.

 

If I did 4th grade stuff next year, 5th the next, etc. I think the progression may be too slow if he is the type to learn quickly (particularly in grammar). So it seems I should either compact the grade-level materials and move faster, or else choose ungraded, alternate materials that are more flexible for adding depth. I am definitely more comfortable with the former; I like to be thorough and not leave any gaps. However, if there are ungraded materials that are really worth using, I'd like to know. For example, I am looking into using the Scripps Word Club for spelling next year instead of a grade-level book. He can work through the lists at his own pace and prepare for the school spelling bee (assuming they let him enter - it's supposed to be grades 4-8). A friend of mine LOVES MCT LA and has offered to loan me Island and Town to try out (she did them both this year with her daughter who is very similar to my son). Any recommendations for levels and pacing for MCT?

 

I'm not worried about math and literature at this point, but what about science? He's done fine with the grade 3 Science: A Closer Look text this year but I'm ready to take a break from the textbooks next year since I think it will be largely a repeat. I have the human anatomy and simple machines kits from Science in a Nutshell (huge thrift store score!) as well as snap circuits, tinker crates, kitchen science books, etc. I am thinking of just working through kits and adding in trade books for the individual topics. And maybe a really nice reference book (not Usborne cartoons!). By 5th/6th grade I will use the Holt Science & Technology series which I already own.

 

I'm set with enrichments and social activities. He will do cub scouts, chess club, tech club, Battle of the Books, the spelling bee, and PE/sports lessons. 

 

Anyway, any advice and guidance you can give would be helpful. I don't want to bore the poor kid with slow materials, but I also don't want to be so loosy-goosy that he never knows what is expected either.

[wapiti]

Looking at the MAP scoring info, it looks like he has the achievement score of students quite a few grades ahead. If I understand the MAP correctly, because it is adaptive, the same test is given to all kids so grade-level equivalents are easy to determine. His reading score was 228 which is higher than the score for on-level 11th graders - is that right?

 

Even though average 11th graders may have the same RIT score, that doesn't mean it can be said he is achieving at an 11th grade level.  (In addition, note that there is more than one version of the MAP, and the grade 2-5 MAP seems to ceiling out much faster than the grade 6+ MAP.  But, that's a separate issue.)  For example, my 4th grader had a 232 math last fall, and the 50th percentile for 10th grade is 230, but my ds isn't even ready for prealgebra, let alone algebra.  The percentiles are more a reflection of the sorry state of education, I guess.

 

MAP RIT chart for math topics, I think for the 2-5 test:  https://docs.google.com/viewer?a=v&pid=sites&srcid=ZGNzZGsxMi5vcmd8dGVhbS1ibGF6ZXItaG9tZXBhZ2V8Z3g6NjZiZGEzMTA2NzhjYjNkNQ

 

FWIW, I would still place in a math program by the main topics that you know he knows, or by the program's placement test, rather than trying to get a grade level out of the RIT.  While I have always liked the MAP because we can see growth (or sometimes not) from year to year, and I think it's useful for getting a feel for comparison within the student's current grade level, I don't know that it's useful for placement within a particular program.  At least you have seen that your student is doing well and you can feel confident in decisions to continue on ahead and include acceleration as makes sense to you.

 

ETA, sorry I didn't include any actual curriculum advice, just my two cents on the map :)

Edited March 3, 2016 by wapiti

[ondreeuh]

Even though average 11th graders may have the same RIT score, that doesn't mean it can be said he is achieving at an 11th grade level.  (In addition, note that there is more than one version of the MAP, and the grade 2-5 MAP seems to ceiling out much faster than the grade 6+ MAP.  But, that's a separate issue.)  For example, my 4th grader had a 232 math last fall, and the 50th percentile for 10th grade is 230, but my ds isn't even ready for prealgebra, let alone algebra.  The percentiles are more a reflection of the sorry state of education, I guess.

 

MAP RIT chart for math topics, I think for the 2-5 test:  https://docs.google.com/viewer?a=v&pid=sites&srcid=ZGNzZGsxMi5vcmd8dGVhbS1ibGF6ZXItaG9tZXBhZ2V8Z3g6NjZiZGEzMTA2NzhjYjNkNQ

 

FWIW, I would still place in a math program by the main topics that you know he knows, or by the program's placement test, rather than trying to get a grade level out of the RIT.  While I have always liked the MAP because we can see growth (or sometimes not) from year to year, and I think it's useful for getting a feel for comparison within the student's current grade level, I don't know that it's useful for placement within a particular program.  At least you have seen that your student is doing well and you can feel confident in decisions to continue on ahead and include acceleration as makes sense to you.

 

ETA, sorry I didn't include any actual curriculum advice, just my two cents on the map :)

 

Oh, I totally agree - I am not changing math at all. Thank you for the MAP RIT chart. My son has done MIF 3 and BA 3A - looking at the chart I have to think he's a good guesser. :) He hasn't done any graphing or even decimals, for that matter. We will continue with MIF 4 and keep moving through BA.

 

 

[eternalsummer]

We like the TOPScience sets; they're very easy to use (instruction sheets are written to the student, with an additional sheet for the teacher to supplement and guide) and also very this then this then this, if that's your thing.  We do it with BFSU (we don't pair topics, just plod along in both concurrently); BFSU is kind of the opposite of TOPscience in that it's written exclusively to the teacher and you have to do a fair amount of reading ahead/prep work.  I only do it because I like the sort of thorough and interconnected base it establishes for a subject with which I'm not all that familiar personally.

 

For LA, I'm not much help - we've only tried WWE, WWS, and Bravewriter (we're doing Bravewriter now).  I let reading guide itself; I just occasionally find books I think he might like and strew them; occasionally I can press his reading skills by giving him one with a topic/setting that interests him at slightly above his ideal comfortable reading level (right now about 5th grade).  WWE and to some extrent WWS (for older DD) were busts because they were Just So Slow.    Bravewriter has been better because we can do this and that, here and there, and let skills develop naturally.

 

For math we do BA.  We got to grade 3 maths through Miquon and some Khan academy videos, and a bit of Math Mammoth.  Those skills are all pretty easy to teach so I mostly just taught them myself and used the curricula as practice problems.  I did occasionally let him test out of certain units by just giving unit tests, seeing what skills were there or missing, teaching the missing skills, and moving on.

 

We tried Saxon for K math (we did Saxon 1) and it was *terrible* for DS.  Math is pretty easy both to accelerate and to branch out - we like BA because it teaches the same concepts, but instead of present concept, do 50 problems that are more or less the same with different values, move on, it incorporates a fair number of puzzles and a kind of discovery (figure out how to apply the concept to this slightly new situation).  It is somewhat slower than he went through the more standard materials (Miquon and MM, etc.) but he is more engaged. 

 

The great things about having a kid that picks things up fastish is that you can use a lot more time to pursue interests; we're doing codebreaking (he wants to grow up to be a detective) and history is largely knights and castles (he also wants to grow up to be a knight).

[LisaKinVA]

One thing that I have learned over the years, is the level of understanding does not necessarily mean they are ready for the same level of output.

 

Bumping up LA a level or two may be fine from an input standpoint -- but way too much from an output standpoint.  My oldest is incredibly strong in Critical Reading/Grammar -- but at 8 could not really write any more (length of time/duration) than an average 8 year old.  Now, he could narrate at a much higher level, but when asked to put those words down on paper himself?  Nope.

 

Subjects I generally do not accelerate include:  Composition & Penmanship

 

Subjects I generally do not accelerate, but go wider/deeper: Literature/Grammar, History & Science.  Science, my caveat is that every one of my children thus far have been ready for high school level science by 6th or 7th grade.  I usually choose a lighter high school level for 6-8th, but still do labs, tests and quizzes, and then move into much more difficult or AP levels by 9th.  ETA: When I say "literature" I'm referring to the type of output expected, not the reading level.

 

Subjects I simply accelerate, and change curriculum to accomplish this based upon the child: Math, Spelling/Vocabulary.

 

I also don't require more time for school.  Simply because a gifted 8 year old can do more work, does not mean they should.  I have become very flexible on this point.  There is a standard day, if they wish to do more they can.  If they wish to play or explore something else, that is just as important to me that they have those opportunities.  For one child, this meant more time for LEGO, another wanted more time to draw, one wanted imaginative play with Barbies, ponies, Littlest pet Shops, one made up stories with their stuffed animals and wanted to act them out and video tape them... 

 

Math my kids have used successfully: Singapore and Math Mammoth, and Life of Fred (elementary levels).  My oldest three are too old for BA, and we haven't had the money to invest for #4 or #5 as yet.  But, Math Mammoth and LoF have been pretty good.  My oldest DD moved from Math Mammoth and LoF into AoPS without issues.  My second son is currently using Chalkdust, LoF, and AoPS as a follow-up.  My oldest is currently using Chal.kdust, LoF and AoPS.  Blondie is using Math Mammoth and LoF, Boo is using Abeka and Math Mammoth.

 

Science we've done both Apologia and Real Science for Kids.  My younger kids have really enjoyed Apologia, as well as the various science videos we have (Discovery Channel type things).  HIstory, we've mostly followed Veritas Press, but have also used SOTW.  

 

English -- FLL followed by MCT for all but the oldest.  Composition, WWE

Edited March 3, 2016 by LisaK in VA is in IT

[SanDiegoMom]

My son's last year for MAPS testing was second grade (when he was still in PS) and he got similar scores - 230 for LA and 256 for Math. But while I knew I would be accelerating Math, I haven't done anything special for LA other than reading lots of good books, introducing lit analysis (this year in 4th- he wasn't ready in 3rd) and using MCT for grammar, which he absolutely loves. MBTP was a fail for him. Well, not a complete fail - we'd have three awesome assignments out of 15. It was just too workbooky for him. We used WWE (which was extremely hard for him- excellent reader but narrating was extremely hard work) and now we are using a combination of WWS 1/2 time and Bravewriter.

 

Most everything else has been just input. Lots of books (my kids love OUP history and Hakim's books) lots of documentaries, and I can't forget he's taking a computer science class with ghf that he loves. So lots of Scratch programming. Just not a lot of output, except for writing and math.

Oh, and they loved Ellen Mchenry's botany and elements. The games! My ds lives for games, and she has lots of games. We are about to start a TOPs science unit. And I'm looking at a unit from Prufrock Press called the Stock Market Game for next year, as well as the Black Plague PBL unit from RFWP.

 

We've also been using Teach Your Kid Shakespeare and reading Garfield's Shakespeare stories and just watched Midsummer Night's Dream. That's been s big hit.

 

Math is Aops for one and BA for the other.

 

Sorry it's so disjointed. I edit horribly on my tiny phone screen.

[ondreeuh]

Great suggestions! I just looked through some of the Prufrock Press books and like the looks of Hot Fudge Monday and the Red Hot Root Words. He got the Lego Shakespeare books for Christmas and I like the idea of including him in his older brother's Shakespeare study next year. I'll look at the project based learning units and the Ellen McHenry stuff. I think I actually already bought botany a while ago and didn't use it. Maybe I can recruit a friend to do it with us?

[ondreeuh]

San Diego Mom, did you use MCT Island last year? What do you and your kids love so much about it?

[SanDiegoMom]

We did. We started with Grammarland first, however, to give them an introduction to the parts of speech. Then we just read through Grammar Town and Paragraph town- not really on a set schedule. We analyzed the practice sentence every day, and did the poetry book every now and then. We didn't use the vocab book - it was pretty light- but we love Ceaser's English this year. My kids went in knowing only nouns and verbs, and now even my dd, who is not nearly the grammar freak my son is, can pick out all the parts of speech, Objects, Subject Complements, and is now learning verbals. It became very intuitive and there is a great love of language that really permeates his books. The poetry books are wonderful, and we use them during our poetry teas. The biggest drawback is how hard they are to schedule. We just don't. But I really wish we could!

[Tumbatoo]

I don't know anything about test scores. But, I think the most important thing is to find what works for your kid. I would ditch grade levels and find the level he's comfortable and interested in working at in each subject and then go sideways. Advanced kids need depth,and exploration not necessarily speed.

 

I do like Beast Academy. I plan to do that next with my mathy girl. However, I'm sure she'll still want to do more math on the side. I have used it before and it does go slow as you work through the more challenging problems. She currently uses Singapore and Dreambox. Life of Fred was a hit for two of my kids, but my mathy girl hates it - go figure.

 

We tried MBtP and I did like it somewhat, it was just too worksheet based and seemed to move too slow, and was too light on literature for us. For Literature, we're really enjoying Sonlight. I also use their history in the lower grades. I like it because it lets the kids explore deeper instead of faster. It's the one thing they don't blow through. I'm also looking at the Aesop's' Fables books from RFP for my youngest, and VP Omnibus for my oldest.

 

For LA, MCT has been a hit for my older kids. It's challenging and fun. My younger has even learned some grammar by listening in here and there. I personally don't worry too much about formal writing lessons until middle school. But, we do writing for fun - unschooly I guess.

 

For science Sonlight's Science D was challenging and fun. We used it for 4th grade. Bookshark has a secular version. It used a combination of encyclopedias, textbooks, TOPS, and small, but fun books. We enjoy the variety of reading and sources. I've also looked at the NOEO science sets. You could also to TOPS on your own. There are several. Personally, I try to avoid textbooks in the younger years.  But, if you have time, taking a couple of years to dive into his interests instead of using a curriculum would be fun!

[EKS]

When using the MAP as an aid to determining placement, instead of looking at the grade level where the child's score is at the 50th percentile, you'll want to look at where it is at the 90th percentile (or slightly above).  The 90th percentile indicates mastery of that grade level's material.  Note that most students do not master grade level material while they are in that particular grade.

 

So when I did this with the 2015 norms using your son's scores, mastery of math was at the end of 2nd grade level and mastery of reading was at the end of 4th grade level.  And his language score indicates mastery of end of 5th grade material.  

 

For math, I'd take a look at both Singapore math and Beast Academy.  For language arts, I'd look at the MCT materials.  And I'd give him things to read at his level.  

 

 

[GeorgiaH]

Highly recommend you expose him to chess. You can get a membership for Chesskid.com for half price through Homeschoolbuyers Coop. There are video lessons to learn how to play the game, as well as puzzles he can solve. Chess has proved to be a fabulous elective for my son - and he loves it! Chess has been shown to help children with ADHD also. 

[kbutton]

MCT is great. I would look at your friend's materials and see where you want to place him. MCT recommends not skipping CE I and II, so consider that when you place him. If you think he needs to start at an earlier level in one area compared to another, you can just pick up the pace with the stuff that is coming quickly. You can't go wrong with borrowing it!  The RFWP website has a slide show discussing how to implement the curriculum.

 

Ellen McHenry is beloved in our house even when we don't get to all the activities.