help me buy a DSLR for my teen

[wapiti]

She is very into taking arty pictures and has done wonderfully with her phone.  Photography is one prong of her serious exploration of various artistic pursuits.  We are giving her half the cost of a camera (total cost in the $500 range) for a birthday present.  She's been researching and seems to be set on Nikon or Canon and we intend to look at them in a B&M store before probably buying online.

 

Here's what I need help with:

 

(1)  Any website recommendations for teaching a person DSLR who thinks she can teach herself :glare:?

 

(2)  Beyond the camera model itself, how do we decide on extras - is it generally better to buy a set with camera and lenses together, or to buy separately?  Dd is already talking about glass...

 

I know nothing and clearly need more coffee.  Much, much more coffee.

 

ETA, photo editing, does it matter Macbook vs Windows?

Edited March 2, 2016 by wapiti

[prairiewindmomma]

1. Nikon and Canon are comparable. They have different hand-feels and one prefers one or the other much like one might prefer a Toyota or a Honda.

2. I have no clue about online courses, but there are many out there and some are quite good.

3. Start with two good lenses, a decent bag, and work your way up.  I am currently lusting over Nikons f/1.8 so I could do bokeh photos.  

4. Get her started in portraiture if she is interested so she can do people's Christmas card photos and earn some money to buy her own lenses in the future because some are crazy expensive.

[UCF612]

Have her hold the cameras and decide which feels right to her. I went Nikon because it felt more natural in my hand. Others prefer Canon for the feel. She could also look at her favorite photographers and see if there is a majority of one brand. Both are great brands.

 

I would say no to the kit lens. Get a body and a lens. I'd recommend a 50mm cause they are relatively inexpensive but produce quality. Then she can decide if she'd prefer more prime lenses or zooms. I tend to stick with primes. A 35mm would be a good lens to start with as well. It is wider angle than the 50mm. Also keep in mind lenses on a crop sensor are going to be different than on a full frame camera. Chances are she'll get a crop camera because most entry level cameras are crop.

 

I like Lightroom for editing.

 

Not sure on classes. Clickin Moms has a lot of good info.

[Mama Geek]

I love my Nikon and package lenses are usually cheap lenses.  Look at buying from Ritz/Wolf Camera.  I had problems within a year of buying one where it was eating batteries.  I got a new one without a problem from them.  Buy a filter for the lens because they are much cheaper to replace than the lens is when it gets scratched.  You will also want some lens cleaning supplies.

 

The book that comes with the camera teaches you how to use the camera.

 

For learning how to take good pictures read everything you can on lighting, framing, posing, etc.  Read up on shutter speed, f stops, ISO speeds.  There are tons of things online and tons of books. that cover this stuff.

[Upptacka]

I am partial to Nikon, but you can't go wrong with Nikon or Canon. I would have her read a book like "Understaning Exposure" (Bryan Peterson), and really read through the camera manual before she starts playing with the camera. There are a lot of special settings she will never use, but really understand how to adjust ISO, aperture and shutter speed (and how they are all related).

 

If she is interested in portrait photography in particular, you can get a 50 mm 1.8 lens for around $100. This is a great lens to have! I have the 50 mm 1.4 (more expensive) and it is my favorite lens.....I rarely take it off my camera. But I take more close ups, portraits, etc rather than landscape or sports shots.

 

Let me know if you are interested in an older (7-8 years old) Nikon d90. I recently upgraded to a d750 and need to look into selling my d90.

 

For photo editing, Mac had some great programs (iPhoto, aperture), but they abandoned them. I now am paying for Lightroom on our Mac. Learning photo editing software is another challenge and time suck. I think something like photoshop would be more than she needs......it is a pretty complicated program to use, even for someone familiar with photo editing. I have been really happy with Lightroom, aside from the cost.

[Guest]

If you find out that Nikon or Canon is about to ship or has JUST shipped an incremental upgrade to a perfectly good camera (like when Nikon was getting ready to ship the 7200), the price of the 7100 dropped significantly.  I know this particular model is out of the price range, but the principle holds.  

 

I also bought one used at about half the price of new, because the owner of the 7100 just HAD TO HAVE the 7200, even though he had fewer than 100 shots taken on the 7100.  Brand new, really.  

 

As for learning on one's own, there is a lot available online...youtubes, little classlets from different vendors.  I have been *very* happy with classes on CreativeLive, especially those offered by John Greengo.  While they are broadcasting, the classes are free; you just sign in and take the class.  The classes may be purchased for use at your time-discretion, as well.  I have watched at least 6 of these courses, and have learned a ton.  This is a really good use of summer time, I'll tell you that for free.  :0)

 

John Greengo offers classes on the use of particular cameras via CreativeLive.com, as well.  They are like $25 and about 5 hours long and worth every penny.  

 

The Fundamentals of Photography class is a week long and very in depth for a beginner survey course.  He also has a shorter "quick start" class that is worth watching.  They rerun them from time to time, for free, so keep an eye on their website.  

 

Finally, don't forget that there will be some sort of post-processing software to learn as well.  I took a spendy Lightroom class because my brain is not as supple as it was and it was hard for me to get all the tricks.  Worth it.  But it is not just my brain--I have a young friend who is already an expert photographer, and he was using Photoshop for his post-processing.  I nagged him and nagged him to start using Lightroom and he wouldn't do it.  Until I sat down with him and taught him some of the features--and now he is a believer.  Lightroom is for photographers; Photoshop is for graphic designers.  They can BOTH be used for effects, but Lightroom is the Adobe product designed by and for photographers.  And it's rich, which means there is a lot to learn.  So be sure to peg into some of those online classes, free or otherwise, as well, at least over time.  You don't have to do this all at once.  :0)  My young friend told me that the biggest step he took in making better pictures this year was using Lightroom.  I was pleased that all my nagging had not been in vain.  :0)

 

Get the camera body and choose the lens you want.  Greengo recommends using a 35mm (for a crop frame) or at 50mm (for a full frame) for a full year before starting to get into other focal lengths.  He said it helps you because you pay more attention to the work you are doing and not to alllll the options.  It's sort of like the way I learned to golf:  the instructor didn't let me hit a ball for about 6 lessons.  If you get the swing right, the ball will go where you send it.  Beginners focus on the ball instead of the swing, so she took away the ball.  I have a perfect swing...as long as I'm using a 7-iron.  LOL.  Same with the camera.  Learn to use the features of the camera to get the shots you want, and save your money for good glass because it holds its value much longer than the camera body will.  Technology advances adn all that.  

 

I hope you and she have a lot of fun with this!  :0)

[Garga]

Have her google for aperture, ISO, and shutter speed. They are the reason people buy DSLRs. In order to make having a DSLR worth it, those are the settings on the camera you have to understand. There are more settings (like metering) she can get to later, but those are the big three.

 

Aperture:

 

Aperture is where you control how "dilated" the camera is. It works like an eyeball. If it's too sunny outside and the pictures are washed out, she can change the aperture to be smaller (less dilated) and so less light gets into the camera and the pictures aren't washed out. Vice versa for if she's in a dark room. She can dilate the eye so more light gets in and her pictures are brighter and not too dark.

 

Also, aperture is what makes it so you can have a picture where everything in the picture is crisp and clear (like for a landscape shot), or where only one part of the picture is clear and the rest is a soft blur, ike maybe a closeup of flower, where the other flowers around it are blurry, but just the center of the flower you're focused on is clear. (Note: how zoomed in or out you are can affect this effect as well.)

 

She can control both those things with aperture: light and clarity/blur

 

ISO:

 

ISO tells the camera how sensitive to be to light. Back in the olden days, you could buy film that was 200 speed or 800 speed.

 

If it's a sunny day, you want the lowest ISO. That way the camera won't be too sensitive to light and won't wash out your pictures. If you're in a dark room, you want the camera to be set to a nice high ISO so the camera will be more sensitive to light and will take nice bright pictures.

 

IMPORTANT: The higher the ISO, the grainer the pictures get. Photographers call this "noise." Grainy pictures are NOT good. When looking for a camera, you WILL want a camera that doesn't get too much noise at a high ISO. This will be something that will disappoint her if her pictures are grainy/noisy. Some cameras have terrible ISO and even when you're using a relatively low ISO, the pictures are grainy.

 

SHUTTER SPEED:

 

This tells the camera how fast to blink. It's sort of like a strobe light. In a strobe light, you catch an action and see just a quick flash of someone's movement. In regular light, you can see all their motions.

 

If the shutter is slow, it's like regular light. The shutter stays open for a long time and it catches all the movements that are made. This is fine if your subject is still. But if your subject is moving, then you get a big bad blur. Sometimes you want the blur: you can use a reeeeaally slow shutter speed to get those shots where the tail lights of cars are big long red lines across the picture.

 

On the other hand, if the shutter speed is fast, like a strobe light, you can catch race cars driving by without any blur. You catch them in a quick blink of time.

 

I've taken pictures in very, very dark rooms that come out as if there is normal light in there, as long as the shutter is being held open for a long time--like for a couple of minutes. This only works for still lifes. And I've taken pictures of things like cars whizzing by and they look crisp and clear--because the shutter opens and closes super fast.

 

The problem with shutter speed is light. If you're trying to catch an action in a dark room by having the shutter open and close super fast, then you will also not be allowing a lot of light to enter the camera and the picture will be too dark.

 

If you're outside and you want the water in a river to look misty and white, then you'll have a slooooow shutter speed and a LOT of light will enter your camera, and the picture might be completely white--washed out entirely.

 

 

Sooo, that leads to this: aperture, ISO, and shutter speed balance each other out:

 

Taking a picture of a car whizzing by? Fast shutter speed to capture the action, open aperture (dilated pupil) and high ISO (sensitivity) to capture the light.

 

Taking a picture of your (perfectly still) sleeping cat in a mostly dark room, but you want only his whiskers to be clear and everything else a little blurry? Tiny little aperture (pupil) to get your clear/blur effect, but slow shutter speed and high ISO to capture the light.

 

 

It's a lot, but those are the important things for DSLR. There is a ton of information about it online if she starts searching.

 

You'll want a lens that allows for a super small aperture (the lens is what controls aperture) and you'll want a camera body that doesn't get grainy with a high ISO. If your daughter does a ton of fast shots, she'll want a camera where you hold down the shutter release button and the camera click-click-click-click takes a bunch of pictures in a row. If that's not as important to her, then pay close attention to aperture and ISO.

 

Go to dpreview.com for in depth reviews of cameras and lenses.

 

 

The camera manual will tell her how to change the aperture, ISO, and shutter speed, but won't tell her when she'll want to. Once she finds out how to change each thing, she can practice so she knows when she needs to make changes to those three things. She can practice by doing this: set the ISO to 200 and take a picture. Then change it to 400 and take a picture. Then change it to 600 and take a picture, etc. She'll then be able to see the differences between her pictures. Same for aperture and shutter speed.

 

Note; it can be really frustrating at first to learn these things. Usually on a dial somewhere on the camera, you can put it to the green (arrow, dot, whatever) and the camera is on automatic. You just point and shoot and the camera decides which aperture, ISO, and speed to use.

 

On the dial are also little letters. For those letters, some of them are set up where you choose just the aperture and the camera chooses the ISO and shutter speed for you. Another letter lets you chose the shutter speed, and the camera chooses the aperture and ISO for you. Those are great settings to use to get started. And then there's the letter where you control all three. She can learn little by little, letting the camera make some of the choices for her until she's ready to go to full manual and make all the choices for herself.

 

She'll also need to figure out how to tell the camera where to focus--the auto settings are where the camera chooses what to focus on. The manual should tell her how to be able to tell the camera what to focus on--the flower right in front of her? Or the one waaay at the back of the garden?

 

 

Oooo. That's a lot of info. Stopping now!

[38carrots]

She is very into taking arty pictures and has done wonderfully with her phone.  Photography is one prong of her serious exploration of various artistic pursuits.  We are giving her half the cost of a camera (total cost in the $500 range) for a birthday present.  She's been researching and seems to be set on Nikon or Canon and we intend to look at them in a B&M store before probably buying online.

 

Here's what I need help with:

 

(1)  Any website recommendations for teaching a person DSLR who thinks she can teach herself :glare:?

 

(2)  Beyond the camera model itself, how do we decide on extras - is it generally better to buy a set with camera and lenses together, or to buy separately?  Dd is already talking about glass...

 

I know nothing and clearly need more coffee.  Much, much more coffee.

 

ETA, photo editing, does it matter Macbook vs Windows?

 

I don't have a camera recommendation, but for point (1) your emoji is  surely one of those, right? :hurray: :coolgleamA: :thumbup1: :001_tt1: :D

 

Of course she can teach herself, and how awesome that she is motivated. There are plenty of lessons, both on youtube and on websites, and I'm sure as a teen she'll find a resource that works for her. Best of luck on her artistic journey!

[wapiti]

Oooo. That's a lot of info. Stopping now!

 

Thank you so much for all that info!  I am printing it out for her!

[wapiti]

Get the camera body and choose the lens you want.  Greengo recommends using a 35mm (for a crop frame) or at 50mm (for a full frame) for a full year before starting to get into other focal lengths.  He said it helps you because you pay more attention to the work you are doing and not to alllll the options.  It's sort of like the way I learned to golf:  the instructor didn't let me hit a ball for about 6 lessons.  If you get the swing right, the ball will go where you send it.  Beginners focus on the ball instead of the swing, so she took away the ball.  I have a perfect swing...as long as I'm using a 7-iron.  LOL.  Same with the camera.  Learn to use the features of the camera to get the shots you want, and save your money for good glass because it holds its value much longer than the camera body will.  Technology advances adn all that.  

 

I am trying to help her decide which lens to buy first :)

[Forget-Me-Not]

Ditto to the 35mm on a crop or a 50mm on a full-frame. Buy the camera body on its own. Nikon or Canon--it's like Honda or Toyota. User preference. Either way you get a good product.

[Forget-Me-Not]

Creative Live has some good video tutorials (I don't have experience with their beginner stuff, but I watched a great one on shooting fireworks a while back).

 

There are a lot of free resources if she's willing to put in the legwork, HOWEVER, the instructor- and peer-review of a paid class can make it *well* worth spending a few hundred bucks.

Edited March 20, 2016 by Forget-me-not

[Spy Car]

For photo editing, after being a pretty serious Photoshop users for decades, I switched over to a competitor called Affinity Photo upon its release last summer. AP is brilliant, and deep. Being so new the developers are still rapidly adding features, but it is already a "professional" image editing program aimed directly at taking on Photoshop.

 

Unlike Photoshop, which Adobe now rents to users on a monthly basis (which chaps my hide after spending thousands of dollars on software licenses over the years) Affinity Photo is $49 to buy with years of free upgrades. It even goes on sale at times for $39. It is a "steal." The one caveat is that AP is a professional level program, so not a "lite" bit of software that takes no time to learn. There are excellent videos at the Affinity website that ease the transition.

 

Affinity Photo was Mac only until last week. The program was named the "app of the year" for the Mac by Apple. This week they announced the release of a beta version of AP for Windows.

 

If you want a serious image editor I love Affinity Photo. The price is unbelievable. An easier to use option for Mac is Pixelmator. Not bad for those intimidated by the complexity of a professional level program. For me, Affinity Photo has been a dream come true after feeling burned by Adobe's pricing scheme.

 

Good luck finding the right camera package.

 

Bill

[Lady Florida.]

For photo editing, after being a pretty serious Photoshop users for decades, I switched over to a competitor called Affinity Photo upon its release last summer. AP is brilliant, and deep. Being so new the developers are still rapidly adding features, but it is already a "professional" image editing program aimed directly at taking on Photoshop.

 

Unlike Photoshop, which Adobe now rents to users on a monthly basis (which chaps my hide after spending thousands of dollars on software licenses over the years) Affinity Photo is $49 to buy with years of free upgrades. It even goes on sale at times for $39. It is a "steal." The one caveat is that AP is a professional level program, so not a "lite" bit of software that takes no time to learn. There are excellent videos at the Affinity website that ease the transition.

 

Affinity Photo was Mac only until last week. The program was named the "app of the year" for the Mac by Apple. This week they announced the release of a beta version of AP for Windows.

 

If you want a serious image editor I love Affinity Photo. The price is unbelievable. An easier to use option for Mac is Pixelmator. Not bad for those intimidated by the complexity of a professional level program. For me, Affinity Photo has been a dream come true after feeling burned by Adobe's pricing scheme.

 

Good luck finding the right camera package.

 

Bill

 

Wow that looks fantastic. I signed up for the beta Windows version. 

[Lady Florida.]

double post

Edited March 20, 2016 by Lady Florida

[Spy Car]

Wow that looks fantastic. I signed up for the beta Windows version. 

 

The beta versions are free to try, so no risk. it may lack full implementation of some advanced features, but you should be able to get a very good sense the power of Affinity Photo.

 

When the beta launches (or even before) watch the tutorial videos on the Affinity website. They are outstanding!

 

As I've reiterated, this is a professional level program. Those who just want a near-automatic enhancement program might not appreciate the complexity. But for someone who always dreamed of owning Photoshop, but balked at the high price, AP is a dream-come-true. 

 

The back-end code is already written (and working on Mac, with new feature coming regularly.) Now the developers are working on the Windows front-end. The Mac beta (where I started) was awesome. I'm sure the Windows version will be great too.

 

Mac version is currently on sale. I'm a huge fan. No financial interest on my part. Just a great program for those looking to get deeply into image editing, at an unbelievable price. 

 

Bill

Edited March 21, 2016 by Spy Car

[Katy]

Have her save everything in jpeg + raw initially.  she'll be disappointed with Raw until she learns post-processing in photoshop or lightroom.

[Spy Car]

Affinity Photo has a Raw file developing component (they call it a Persona) built-in. Not sure if it will be in the Windows beta (or not), but one is not locked into Adobe products if one wants to develop raw pictures.

 

Bill

[Lady Florida.]

 

As I've reiterated, this is a professional level program. Those who just want a near-automatic enhancement program might not appreciate the complexity. But for someone who always dreamed of owning Photoshop, but balked at the high price, AP is a dream-come-true.

 

 

 

Bill

That would be me. I use Corel Paint Shop Pro, which is similar to Elements but have always wished I was willing to spend the money for full blown Photoshop.

[Spy Car]

That would be me. I use Corel Paint Shop Pro, which is similar to Elements but have always wished I was willing to spend the money for full blown Photoshop.

 

Then be prepared to be blown away! :D

 

Bill

[wapiti]

Thank you all!  We bought the Canon with a 50mm and I need to track down a 24mm per her request.  I still haven't decided on a new computer, but in the meantime she is going to try out the camera next week on a rare, quick mother-daughter trip to SF :)

[Mama Geek]

Thank you all!  We bought the Canon with a 50mm and I need to track down a 24mm per her request.  I still haven't decided on a new computer, but in the meantime she is going to try out the camera next week on a rare, quick mother-daughter trip to SF :)

 

Make sure she knows how to use it in it's basic settings, take pictures before she leaves and get used to it some.  Also take the book with you.  Nothing is more frustrating than wanting to take a picture and getting and error message that you don't understand or not being able to get something to work as expected.