"Do your best" vs. "Never good enough" How do you walk this line?

[Laurel-in-CA]

I am on my 4th jr. high kid. Sometimes it seems you only hear their real feelings when in the midst of PMS or testosterone-induced fury.  Sigh. Today it's PMS and never-good-enough.

 

I don't think I am really this way....but when dd gets a problem wrong in math I do ask her to rework it. I do ask her to aim for A's on her tests, but the only thing in which we test regularly is math. In the youth organization we participate in, I ask her to follow the leadership track....because that means the most learning for her and a model that's good for the younger girls as well. We aren't even in competitive sports.

 

But she seems to think I am impossible to satisfy. And she's not the first kiddo from whom I've heard that feedback. I am trying very hard to get this right myself, as this is my last time around the block.

 

How do you guys walk this line, between encouraging your kid to "be all that they can be" and loving them where they're at whether they want to move forward or not?

 

And some of this comes from a friendship that she thought she had that fell apart painfully, over a year ago, and she's still trying to figure out what she did wrong and how to fix it. (I am of the opinion that the friends she thought she had made were more bonded to each other and shut her out, partly deliberately and partly not. She should just move on....but it still clearly hurts a lot.)

 

Suggestions, ideas? Topics to keep open for discussion w/dd?

[PeterPan]

My mom never asked me to do anything like that.  I got As anyway.  Maybe just stop asking her for stuff and just let her choose?

 

Topics to keep open for discussion?  Nail polish color.  S*x.  Drugs.  Alcohol.  Politics.  

 

I talk consequences with my dd and goal setting.  I ask her if she has goals, and I tell her what she'll need and to what degree if she wants to attain those goals.  I show her paths.

 

I don't know.  If she's an A student, don't you think she'd get As without you telling her?  If she's not one for whom that's natural, maybe that's why there's pressure?  And what does it matter if she doesn't attain it?  It's inconvenient, but it's just a path.

 

I was just remembering, I did set minimum grades for her online classes.  But that was more a MINIMUM, not what I wanted.  ;)  I WANT As from her, but I told her minimum C, happy with a B, wow but unexpected with an A.  She got As for herself, because she wanted it.  I think if I had told her must be As, that would have been really frustrating, kwim?  On math I require As, but that's just because there's no point moving on till you have that knowledge, kwim?  In our house it's just self-monitoring.  You don't move on till you have A level knowledge.  But it's not like it's a matter of pleasing me.  It's just what it takes to move on.

Edited February 27, 2016 by OhElizabeth

[Jean in Newcastle]

Reworking a math problem should be about knowing how to do it correctly, so that you aren't learning it incorrectly.  I wouldn't tie it to a standard of "doing your best". 

 

I would allow my kids to determine their own level of effort in extracurricular sports. 

 

I don't always do my best.  That would be so tiring!  I do put my best effort into some things.

 

I try to praise my kids when I do see them giving their best effort (or even a good effort) no matter what the outcome. 

 

 

[bolt.]

I think you are frequently satisfied with her efforts... You are probably just in a bad habit of not saying it when it's true, or considering that to be 'normal' and so actually not noticing (which leads to not mentioning it).

 

If you correct problems (because they are unusual) and affirm significant accomplishments (because they are unusual): kids have to guess how you feel when you are not expressing anything about the in between space where their behaviour/accomplishments are average/satisfactory and everything is fine. Kids are just as likely to jump to the conclusion that you don't really approve of the middle ground, as they are to just guess that you spend most of your time satisfied.

 

The spectrum looks like this:

Impressed <-----------------> Disapproval

Some kids think this:

Impressed <--|---------------> Disapproval

Others think this:

Impressed <---------------|--> Disapproval

 

The fix is simply to say, "I'm fine/happy/satisfied that you did that normally and/or met the expectations for the situation." / "You're a good kid." / "I saw the effort you put in." -- and to say them reasonably often.

 

It's not like giving her a trophy for being average. It's just telling her clearly that 'meeting expectations' is a positive thing, and she doesn't always have to be 'impressive' to get some kind of positive feedback.

 

(And I don't usually tell my kids to 'do your best' unless it's a situation that actually warrants their truly maximum effort. There are plenty of situations where some more ordinary level of effort is appropriate. Nobody can do all their tasks at maximum effort, and such an approach to life should not be encouraged.)

[Critterfixer]

Agree with Jean on the math. The reason we rework problems is to figure out where we made our error, correct it and hopefully we won't do that more than six or seven times before we catch the error. 

I've been known to happily grade the boys papers and applaud them for their "B". I aim for "B". I grew up aiming for "A". I was very driven, very much convinced that if I put enough effort into anything that I could succeed at it. I found that life wasn't always so obliging. I like "B". It means that things are just about the right level to make you think and to keep you humble. 

So you may be putting undue pressure on---but you might also be just trying to make sure that she does venture outside her comfort zone, and that's okay, as long at her comfort zone is always there for her to retreat to. 

 

It sounds like she's having a tough time with the friendship that fell apart. So many things involving people just can't be solved like problems. It's sometimes easy for an observer to see what happened, but that doesn't really help with the pain. It's so hard for a "fix it" to come to terms with the notion that some things just aren't for "fixing." She's putting a lot of pressure on herself to solve the problem with the friendship, when it won't depend on her to resolve it. There is a time to fix, or move on. There is a time to learn to just "be" and let the process of grief take place without trying to force it. And it is very difficult to just let it be. 

[...................]

My son has said this to me a few times. It's usually when I am picking on too many things at once. I constantly give positive feedback and praise. Sometimes I will see several things that in my busy, mom mind are all connected and I will lecture about improving on several all at one time. That is when my son feels like he can never be good enough and gets pretty discouraged because he knows he is trying hard and he knows he is a good respectful hard working kid, and that he event stretches himself beyond his limits in several areas.

 

So, I don't know if this helps but I would examine if you are honing in on too many things at once.

 

Another thought is that I don't think any parent needs to tell their kid they want the kid to get an A. Everyone wants an A. There's not point in stating that except to add mounting pressure.

 

Imagine if your husband on the way to work regularly said "Do your absolute best with those kids today ok?"

 

😳😳 you would feel really pressured and really frustrated because of course we all want to do our best!

 

Where kids need help us learning how to make small daily habits that lead to an A, or other goals they have. :)

[PeterPan]

Supportive autonomy coaching is a worthwhile approach. It's from the field of Psychology, precisely Self Determination Theory and popular in training athletes. It's about genuinely providing positive feedback while cutting off criticism or instructions to follow. A coach can guide a student to personally strive out of their comfort zone while the student feels great about it.

 

That was really fascinating!  I don't know who you are, but thanks for sharing.  :)

[Targhee]

Perhaps if you expressed your expectations in ideas rather than concrete measurements? I gave my young kids (oldest is 13) a talk about education, and striving for quality. I compared it to shopping For a table - if you want a table that is long lasting and well designed would you get that at IKEA or at the Bargain Barn or from an experienced carpenter? Where would you pay the most? Your education is like that table - if you want excellence and for it to serve you your lifetime you will have to seek out quality opportunities and pay a higher price. Not a price in dollars, but in diligent effort. Do you want an IKEA education or a master-crafted education?

 

I also help them set their own goals, every week the short term ones and every 4 months or so the long term ones. They tell me what they want to achieve and I help them determine if it's attainable (sorry, we don't have a shoto khan gym near us so become the sword master isn't yet attainable, but you can read books about it for now), how to break it down into smaller steps, and how to measure if it's been achieved. We also work on evaluating goals achieved and when it's OK to abandon a goal and move on to something new.

 

Doing this, oldest decided her goal was fluency in Japanese. I helped her find resources, and an online class, and we talked about how will you know when you've mastered it and what are the smaller steps to getting there. She decided on 30 minutes of practice daily, and the smaller goal of achieving an A in her class. When this class is nearly done we'll discuss the next step (another class likely) and the measurement for it.

 

Some kids by nature put lots of pressure on themselves in a desire to please, and need much more encouraging so they can relax enough to be successful. Others need someone to light the fire under them because they are happy doing the bare minimum. When you involve them in the process you help both these types develop intrinsic motivation, which is the jet fuel they need to be successful.

[Eliz]

For me, it depends on the child and the subject.  Both my daughters are in high school now.  My younger daughter struggles with math.  We work through the text slowly with as much repetition as she needs.  If she's having difficulty, we work through the problem together.  Both my girls are strong in other subjects.  I expect them to study to learn the material; grades, hopefully, will show their diligence.

[lllll]

nm

Edited March 7, 2016 by _ oq?"

[EmilyGF]

I limit "do your best" to things that matter - school work, a musical instrument, maybe. Everything else can be fun. 
 

I sure don't do my best making dinner or housekeeping - I do "good enough" - reasonably healthy, reasonably cheap, clean enough to be healthy and conducive to work.

 

I try to only bring up the "do your best" line when my child says he can't do something. "That's OK, you don't have to be able to do it, you just have to give it your best, and I'll accept it."

 

I'm listening to a series on being a Suzuki parent right now, and yesterday's video was about the parent being introspective and figuring out her own motives. So when I'm being too critical (which I can tend to be), I need to figure out if I'm expecting something in order to puff myself up or because my child is capable and truly not trying. Have I given the structure the child needs to be successful? Am I making a big deal of a minor thing?

 

Emily

[J-rap]

I think it depends a little on the child.  I didn't usually say "Do your best" (or words to that extent) because I think they probably already thought they were.  But it was more in the context of helping them with their mistakes (if it was something like math) so that they'd better understand the concept.  

 

For extra curricular type things, we kind of let them steer it.  If it seems like they're in it just for fun, we let them be mediocre at it if they're satisfied with that.  If it seems like they are more competitive and want to do well, we help them come up with a strategy.

 

We do make sure they learn things like self-discipline, goal-setting and completing projects and chores, etc., so it's not like they grow up lazy when we decide "mediocre" is okay.

 

I also made a point of being more laid back about things because my dh is much more of a perfectionist, and I wanted my kids to see that you can function in life just fine even if you're not a perfectionist and super go-getter.  

 

Edited February 28, 2016 by J-rap

[Random]

Imagine if your husband on the way to work regularly said "Do your absolute best with those kids today ok?"

 

 

 

 

That puts it in perspective.  I think I'll stop saying that to my children immediately.

[Mrs. Tharp]

I don't say, "do your best". I say, "try to give 80%." Or I speak of it in terms of achieving a particular goal.