Good touch..Inappropriate touch..worst nightmare came true. help

[PinkyandtheBrains.]

One thing I keep coming back to is that in one of the OP's post she said that the MIL knows more history on the perpetrator and the way it was phrased sounded concerning.

 

She also said that her son feels sick about what happened. Tickling matches, harmless wrestling,...in the run of things there can be accidental touching, but it doesn't usually result in this level of upset.

 

The little boy needs to talk to a professional in order to sort out his feelings. I think that the red flags here are enough to warrant intervention.

 

Personally, I would move immediately. The end. For my son's safety and mental health it simply would not be an option to continue to rent from MIL who will continue to want to send this man to the home to visit and do repairs. While they can change the security code, I would imagine that as owner of the home MIL would have the right to call the company and reset it herself then turn that information over to him giving him access all over again. Staying in that home would not be an option for me.

 

I speak from experience having fostered my then suicidal niece whose parents would not keep the family perp away who groped her numerous times away because it would "cause problems in the family". Her resentment of her parents is huge, and she considers them now as an adult mother to be untrustworthy losers which causes them great pain.

 

Agreeing.

 

We would be out of there.

 

 

I had to say no to a close family member with a history of molestation from ever entering my house.  It wasn't easy. But the individual was never allowed in my house, and my children were never alone with them if we encountered them elsewhere.  My children weren't the victims, I wasn't willing to take the risk they would be knowing what I already knew.  

 

 

[gardenmom5]

"never allow my son to be alone with him, ever."

 

NEVER EVER NEVER EVER NEVER EVER   If he is in the same place with your son, you must be present, to protect your son, at all times.

 

I've a friend whose brother is a pedophile.  she has told her mother she didn't want to visit at the same time -  ( sometimes adult kids drop by at the same time by chance.  even mine have - not knowing another one would be here too.) . . . her children were taught to repeatedly yell "wolf" if they so much as saw him come into the room.  

 

eta: just wanted to add - her children were never harmed by him, but she wanted to keep it that way.

Edited February 25, 2016 by gardenmom5

[Lanny]

IMO, Pedophiles do not change. IMO, once a Pedophile, always a Pedophile. Keep your son away from that Pedophile.

[gardenmom5]

IMO, Pedophiles do not change. IMO, once a Pedophile, always a Pedophile. Keep your son away from that Pedophile.

 

they will usually escalate as well.

it will always stick in my mine, the words of one who killed a child he snatched off a playground.  the day it happned - he only went to the playground to see if it was *possible* to grab a child.  he hadn't expected it to be so easy, and hadn't planned to do it that day.  (he figured he'd do it later.)

 

incidently - he ASKED for the death penalty, because he knew if he ever got out, he'd do it again.  and he didn't want to, and he felt that was the only way to stop himself.  he made a bunch of lawyers mad becasue he kept firing them for fighting the death penalty.

 

[gardenmom5]

Angelica, not to add to your woes, but I'd be very leery to leave your MIL alone with your son either.  Who knows what she will say to him about this.  I would be afraid she would try and tell him it didn't happen, he doesn't remember, etc.

 

I'd be leery of her seeing him at all - you being in the room won't stop her from saying anything, and unless you can read her mind before she speaks - you don't know what she'll say.  and you'd have to be 100% watchful with her in the room, and there would be other people (and children) you'd have to ignore just to be able to concentrate on what she's saying with your son.

[angelica]

I want to make sure I understand something correctly.

 

2012 your son was 4/5, and the man in question touched him. He did not say thing 

20?? You read your children a book that talked about inappropriate touching and asked if anyone had everyone touched them. Your older son said, "yes, when I was around 4, that man touched me." When asked, he described the incident.

2016 The man is coming to town, and you ask son, who is 8 turning 9, if he remembers ?? And he says yes.

 

What year was it when your son first mentioned the incident? DON'T KNOW EXACT DATES/YEARS HE DOESN'T REMEMBER HOW OLD HE WAS BUT IF WE LOOK BACK IT WAS LIKELY 3/4 AND THEN NOW THAT MIL SAID WHAT SHE SAID, 5 AS WELL.

 

For what it is worth I have kids that lied/were confused about incidents at that age. One reported being punished at preschool for something he should not have done. I gave an additional punishment for it. He understood and accepted the punishment. When I asked the teacher about it, my son had not done anything wrong and was not punished at preschool. With a different child, when my husband died, our 4/5 year-old insisted I shot and killed Daddy even though he was in hospice care at the time of his death.

BOOK LIKELY READ IN 2011/2012. 

I wish the OP would clarify the time line.  

 

I understood it this way.  When he was 4 he told his mother that this man had touched his privates outside of his pants.  The parents didn't know what to do so they basically did nothing except to keep a close eye on him when he was near their children.  Recently, the OP was reading a book to her kids and asked them if they had ever been touched inappropriately and the boy (now  8 years old) repeated the story he had told his mother when he was 4.

 

Is that right OP?

 

Yes, to an extent. By the time he told me they were living out of state so there was no need to worry. Now that he's almost 9, and can recall the incident, I cant just do nothing anymore.

"never allow my son to be alone with him, ever."

 

NEVER EVER NEVER EVER NEVER EVER   If he is in the same place with your son, you must be present, to protect your son, at all times.

 

EXACTLY!!!! BUT I DON'T WANT HIM AROUND WITH US PRESENT IN GENERAL AND THAT IS THE HARD PART FOR MY HUSBAND TO HEAR. HE THINKS NOW I AM TAKING THIS TO THE 10TH DEGREE.

 

Angelica, not to add to your woes, but I'd be very leery to leave your MIL alone with your son either.  Who knows what she will say to him about this.  I would be afraid she would try and tell him it didn't happen, he doesn't remember, etc.

 

I will take that to heart and every time she visits she is never alone with him. I will also be telling her to not talk to him about it. I can imagine her wanting to reassure him that it was an accident, and that it won't happen again and that he loves him. So yeah, no alone time with grandma. No alone time with anyone really, except for my mom, dh and I. 

 

Oh dear.  If they insisted on the pedophile coming near the children I'd threaten them with the police and a restraining order.

 

Honestly I'd have reported already, but I understand the kind of animosity this would create.  You'd ultimately have to move. It wouldn't matter to me because kids come first, but it's a huge disaster.

 

This man has no idea that I don't want him spending time with my kids. It will hopefully be many more years until he comes to town again. This time around though, he's alone, so there's no reason in my brain for him to even want to see the kids. He might not care to for all I know, but I'm just going into hyper vigilant mode and just planning to not be around. I didn't like him before I knew this about him. I don't like him now. I don't want to see him ever again and my dh thinks that's extreme since it's near impossible to raise our kids with them never seeing him.

 

My 5 year old doesn't recognize the man, I would like to keep it that way. My 8 year old would recognize him, and I don't want him to have to see him again, and I will do what I can to make sure that happens, at the risk of upsetting my dh and mil. I know this will create animosity as time goes on and that my dh and his mom will want to make this situation better and get me to move past this. I can't move past this. He will always be on my bad side. 

 

And the child shouldn't have to be around the guy at all ever.

 

I agree. But by saying that I create drama...well oh well

Which is why never alone with + no physical contact is the boundary I would set--and not ever in the presence of the child who reported the abuse, inasmuch as that child would prefer it be so. I really fail to see why any of this necessitates moving out of her MIL's house, when her MIL and her MIL's husband live in ANOTHER STATE. I would, at this point, however, want to get a proper written lease in place if there isn't already. And having MIL's husband not allowed inside the house would probably be a lease term going forward. It's not his house, it's his wife's from before the marriage, so even in a community property state, it's her separate property unless she went to the trouble of adding him to the deed as co-owner and thereby gifted him shared ownership.

 

Only I am on the lease but it's probably old by now and there's no way MIL will be down with saying that he can't be allowed in the house. She really thinks it is a misunderstanding. WHat she doesn't know though is that is not the incident my son was referring to and he doesn't even remember the incident she referred to. She doesn't want me to think of him as a pedophile. I can't help how I feel though. 

[Scarlett]

BOOK LIKELY READ IN 2011/2012.

 

Yes, to an extent. By the time he told me they were living out of state so there was no need to worry. Now that he's almost 9, and can recall the incident, I cant just do nothing anymore.

 

EXACTLY!!!! BUT I DON'T WANT HIM AROUND WITH US PRESENT IN GENERAL AND THAT IS THE HARD PART FOR MY HUSBAND TO HEAR. HE THINKS NOW I AM TAKING THIS TO THE 10TH DEGREE.

 

 

I will take that to heart and every time she visits she is never alone with him. I will also be telling her to not talk to him about it. I can imagine her wanting to reassure him that it was an accident, and that it won't happen again and that he loves him. So yeah, no alone time with grandma. No alone time with anyone really, except for my mom, dh and I.

 

 

This man has no idea that I don't want him spending time with my kids. It will hopefully be many more years until he comes to town again. This time around though, he's alone, so there's no reason in my brain for him to even want to see the kids. He might not care to for all I know, but I'm just going into hyper vigilant mode and just planning to not be around. I didn't like him before I knew this about him. I don't like him now. I don't want to see him ever again and my dh thinks that's extreme since it's near impossible to raise our kids with them never seeing him.

 

My 5 year old doesn't recognize the man, I would like to keep it that way. My 8 year old would recognize him, and I don't want him to have to see him again, and I will do what I can to make sure that happens, at the risk of upsetting my dh and mil. I know this will create animosity as time goes on and that my dh and his mom will want to make this situation better and get me to move past this. I can't move past this. He will always be on my bad side.

 

 

I agree. But by saying that I create drama...well oh well

 

Only I am on the lease but it's probably old by now and there's no way MIL will be down with saying that he can't be allowed in the house. She really thinks it is a misunderstanding. WHat she doesn't know though is that is not the incident my son was referring to and he doesn't even remember the incident she referred to. She doesn't want me to think of him as a pedophile. I can't help how I feel though.

How do you know your son doesn't remember the incident MIL described? And why don't you tell MIL ther was a second incident?

[73349]

 

 

My 5 year old doesn't recognize the man, I would like to keep it that way. My 8 year old would recognize him, and I don't want him to have to see him again, and I will do what I can to make sure that happens, at the risk of upsetting my dh and mil....

 

Only I am on the lease but it's probably old by now and there's no way MIL will be down with saying that he can't be allowed in the house. She really thinks it is a misunderstanding. WHat she doesn't know though is that is not the incident my son was referring to and he doesn't even remember the incident she referred to. She doesn't want me to think of him as a pedophile. I can't help how I feel though. 

 

Two thoughts:

1) Just because the guy was a problem specifically for your older child in the past doesn't mean your younger child should be around him, either. Maybe you would like to have a picture he could see so that he can notify a parent right away if he ever does see this guy.

2) http://www.zillow.com/ is a great place to go from here.

 

[Lanny]

OP this is a very long thread and I've only read a few of the responses, but from what I know now,   i would keep the Pedophile, AND your MIL away from your children, at all times. I would not let them be near..  Years ago, we knew a man who had been in prison for molesting his very young daughter. He claimed his ex wife set him up and that he was innocent. However, his behavior indicated to us that he was a Pedophile.  I remember talking to him on the phone once and him telling me about a woman he'd met. But the majority of what he told me was about how incredibly smart her young kid was. After the conversation, I told my wife, "that was very very strange. He spent most of the time telling me about her young kid and almost nothing about her". I would have thought the comments of a "normal" man would have been about the woman, not her young child.   We kept him away from DD at all times.   I would suggest that you be prepared, if necessary, to call the Police to your home and that they bring CPS.  You are the Mother. You have the Mother Bear instinct. You must protect your children, above everything else, at all times.  

[TranquilMind]

BUT!! The alleged incidents happened with the her there!!!! Her presence doesn't protect him, there's s track record.

That's what I'm confused about. It read to me as if one incident happened in her presence and she subsequently felt uncomfortable around him and asked her husband to make the child sit near them, not the man. 

 

It is all a little confusing.

[TranquilMind]

 

 

 

Only I am on the lease but it's probably old by now and there's no way MIL will be down with saying that he can't be allowed in the house. She really thinks it is a misunderstanding. WHat she doesn't know though is that is not the incident my son was referring to and he doesn't even remember the incident she referred to. She doesn't want me to think of him as a pedophile. I can't help how I feel though. 

So there WERE two incidents.  That was unclear to me before. Yep, you need to draw a hard line here, and I would anticipate having to move.  Your husband can just suck it up.  Sometimes you have to man up (even as the wife) or, say, mother-bear up and say that this is the way it is going to be.  This is one of those times.   

[angelica]

How do you know your son doesn't remember the incident MIL described? And why don't you tell MIL ther was a second incident?

 Because when we last talked about it I asked him if he can recall any other times, and he said he can't remember but maybe. So now I am torn on whether or not to ask him if he can remember the rough housing incident that my mil told me about. I will likely email her this time and let her know that I thought about our conversation yesterday and that the incident my son recalls was not the incident she is thinking about. 

[angelica]

So there WERE two incidents.  That was unclear to me before. Yep, you need to draw a hard line here, and I would anticipate having to move.  Your husband can just suck it up.  Sometimes you have to man up (even as the wife) or, say, mother-bear up and say that this is the way it is going to be.  This is one of those times.   

 

Well he won't be happy to read this thread because he is not happy with me right now. He feels I am taking this to the 10th degree now and feels like this is going to split him away from his family more than he already is. He is an only child, his mom is not going to disown him because of this. It will however create an issue and we will work through it. 

[Ravin]

I think this thread makes it pretty clear that the boundaries you have set: you and your children don't have to see him ever again, end of story, and watching MIL and not letting her be alone with your DS lest she mess with his head, are, in the greater scheme of things, not taking it to the 10th degree.

 

Taking it to the 10th degree looks like immediately moving out of your home, calling the cops and giving them the full story including when he is going to be in the jurisdiction should they see fit to arrest him, and laying down the line that your DH can choose his step-father and mother or his wife and children.

 

I do think given the full picture you have given of your son's feelings and where he's at, a counselor for him might be a good idea.

[eternalsummer]

I don't understand why you think your DH will care more about upsetting his mother and his stepfather than about upsetting his son, who was molested by said stepfather.  I

[angelica]

That's what I'm confused about. It read to me as if one incident happened in her presence and she subsequently felt uncomfortable around him and asked her husband to make the child sit near them, not the man. 

 

It is all a little confusing.

 

Yes, he can only recall one incident. But when he was 2/3 we all lived together for a year and if anything else happened he might simply be too young to remember. However, every time we'd be watching tv, I was uncomfortable if my son was sitting near him, so when I told me husband he listened and we always took him away from him on the couch.

 

I even told my mil about how back then I didn't feel comfortable with him sitting next to him on the couch, but I wasn't going to make a scene about it, I just did what I could to keep them separated. But what sucked was when he would just go right back over. I said it made me sad to see him gravitate to him over her, and that it made more sense for him to cuddle next to her, or me or his dad, but not him. She understood and agreed.

 

So she said she will keep an eye out in the future for any weird cuddling. I told her, well we won't have to watch out for that because there won't be any of that. Of course though as a toddler he liked to cuddle, he still does, he's a touchy feely kid. Of course step grandpa is more fun and cool in his eyes, and i'm sure if he was around him again he'd still think that despite what's happened because the man appears likable. 

 

I remember tickling matches and the man rubbing his arm while on the couch as he had his arm draped around his tiny body. I don't approve of that either so back then when I saw that I did what I could to stop it quickly. But I know that's just the first step in the grooming process. Perhaps I have always been uncomfortable around him because I know his past, and despite not wanting to judge him, I can't help but feel the way I do, and dh knows that.

[purplejackmama]

What's "his past?" Do you know of other victims?

[angelica]

What's "his past?" Do you know of other victims?

 

No other victims as far as I know. But his past is the fact that he cheated on his wife and had a child. Didn't really pay child support the whole time. Weird thing is he is still friends with his ex wife and staying with her for the duration of his 2 wk visit. Mil says she isn't bothered by it. I

Edited March 10, 2016 by angelica

[Pen]

It seems to me that it would be best for everyone's safety if your FIL did not come to the house to oversee repairs at all.

 

Isn't your DH as a son of that family trusted to oversee repairs?  Or you? It sounds like while MIL has known FIL for a number of years, she has known your DH even longer.

 

This really makes no sense to me to have someone travel (by plane?) for this purpose. I would think that MIL would want to protect FIL from any possible, even accidental anything that could potentially occur by not having him go out to make or oversee repairs.

 

 

Failing that, it seems like you need to know the exact dates when FIL will be in your area and make plans to have yourself and your children be somewhere else.  IMO, not just for the hours he'd be there but for the whole time even if it is weeks.

 

Also, it sounds like you need to find your ds, the one who recalls an incident, a good therapist. It sounded like you suggested it, and he said, "yes," so you should follow through on that asap.

 

 

To me you just need to get through March without your dc and FIL being in proximity, and get your ds a therapist. I don't see that you need to make long term plans about moving or anything like that at this time. And I would hope that a good therapist could help with that sort of decision process.

[angelica]

It seems to me that it would be best for everyone's safety if your FIL did not come to the house to oversee repairs at all.

 

Isn't your DH as a son of that family trusted to oversee repairs?  Or you? It sounds like while MIL has known FIL for a number of years, she has known your DH even longer.

 

This really makes no sense to me to have someone travel (by plane?) for this purpose. I would think that MIL would want to protect FIL from any possible, even accidental anything that could potentially occur by not having him go out to make or oversee repairs.

 

 

Failing that, it seems like you need to know the exact dates when FIL will be in your area and make plans to have yourself and your children be somewhere else.  IMO, not just for the hours he'd be there but for the whole time even if it is weeks.

 

Also, it sounds like you need to find your ds, the one who recalls an incident, a good therapist. It sounded like you suggested it, and he said, "yes," so you should follow through on that asap.

 

 

To me you just need to get through March without your dc and FIL being in proximity, and get your ds a therapist. I don't see that  you need to make long term plans about moving or anything like that at this time. And I would hope that a good therapist could help with that sort of decision process.

 

He is flying and coming out to do house repairs for his ex, so he's probably just coming by as a courtesy to mil. The house is getting painted and the roof tile is getting fixed from what I understand and it's being done by a company, not him. My mom also mentioned asking for the time/days he'll be here so I am working on that and will ask her to have him call dh when hes coming by so he can be there too, so he knows whats going on. 

 

They also asked dh to ask my mom if he can use my grandpas old truck but that's not happening. It needs over $600 in work. With that off the table they asked to use moms suv that has been sitting, but that's now being used by her cousin. He has a truck though, so I said to mil why didn't he just drive and avoid the cost and hassle of getting a rental. It's a new truck so maybe he doesn't want to scratch it up with whatever work he's got planned to do. I also suggested that maybe his ex can pay for a rental, it makes sense since he's coming out to help her, and only seems fair. She agreed. 

 

But anyways, I do just need to get through march and find a therapist. Just being able to talk in general will be good for him. I have been carrying pain for my son and though he's never been emotional about this, and I don't think it's affecting him or that he thinks about it, but I could be wrong. I certainly have shed many tears for him.  

[Scarlett]

He is flying and coming out to do house repairs for his ex, so he's probably just coming by as a courtesy to mil. The house is getting painted and the roof tile is getting fixed from what I understand and it's being done by a company, not him. My mom also mentioned asking for the time/days he'll be here so I am working on that and will ask her to have him call dh when hes coming by so he can be there too, so he knows whats going on.

 

They also asked dh to ask my mom if he can use my grandpas old truck but that's not happening. It needs over $600 in work. With that off the table they asked to use moms suv that has been sitting, but that's now being used by her cousin. He has a truck though, so I said to mil why didn't he just drive and avoid the cost and hassle of getting a rental. It's a new truck so maybe he doesn't want to scratch it up with whatever work he's got planned to do. I also suggested that maybe his ex can pay for a rental, it makes sense since he's coming out to help her, and only seems fair. She agreed.

 

But anyways, I do just need to get through march and find a therapist. Just being able to talk in general will be good for him. I have been carrying pain for my son and though he's never been emotional about this, and I don't think it's affecting him or that he thinks about it, but I could be wrong. I certainly have shed many tears for him.

This sounds very balanced. Just stick to your guns.

[zoobie]

Good luck getting through it. They have a pair of brass ones to ask you to arrange transportation for the man you think molested your son! Really, that is NOT your problem to solve. No is a complete sentence.

Edited February 26, 2016 by zoobie

[MomatHWTK]

I'd be leery of her seeing him at all - you being in the room won't stop her from saying anything, and unless you can read her mind before she speaks - you don't know what she'll say.  and you'd have to be 100% watchful with her in the room, and there would be other people (and children) you'd have to ignore just to be able to concentrate on what she's saying with your son.

 

:iagree: We weren't dealing with molestation, but this inability to control hurtful words was the reason we had to cut off all contact with our relative. She could not bring herself to apologize and would escalate with passive aggressive hurtful comments. I couldn't trust her to speak to my children in a way that wouldn't do more damage than she had already done. 

[LibraryLover]

Oh dear g-d, I would never walk into that home again, ever, with him in it. I would not subject my child to having to lay eyes on him.  Dh upset? MIL upset? Do. not. care. One flip. If my dh insisted? I would choose my children over him. Period. 

[LibraryLover]

Understand there are other victims.  Your taking a stand protects/helps others. I would have an intense heart to heart with dh. Your children need to be protected. That above all else. You want to keep your family intact. Your childrens' needs are paramount. They love their father, and he needs to know its your job as parents to protect them.

 

Edited February 26, 2016 by LibraryLover

[meghan.mantz]

There are a lot of comments on this thread already but I will add my $.02 in:

 

Most abusers don't just up and abuse one day. They groom their victim. They show them attention and make them feel special. Often, the child will really like the abuser, which makes it much easier for the abuser to harm the child.

 

Often times, the abuse feels good (which not many people talk about). Yes, many child think it's gross/uncomfortable/etc., it can also feel good at the same time, which is VERY confusing for a child. "How can something that kind of feels okay be wrong? How can Grandpa Joe be hurting me if I might like it?" It's very normal for children to be confused and ashamed of how they feel, which makes it hard for them to pinpoint that what happened was, in fact, a bad touch.

 

Many child molesters will abuse right "under your nose". It's suspicious if you take a child into a back room for an hour. Cuddling with a child or wrestling with a child is seen as normal and acceptable. And if the child says something, it's easy to respond with something like, "Oh, I didn't mean to do that," or "Oh, we're just playing."

 

Many child abusers use things like cuddling and wrestling to acclimate the child to touching. It's just one more step in the grooming process.

 

The fact that your child jumped up and said, "That's my private part! It's not for touching," is a huge red flag to me, as is the fact that your MIL remembered that incident so clearly and never mentioned it to you at the time. Maybe if it happened shortly after reading the book, I can see your child being hypersensitive towards inappropriate touching, but in general, a child isn't going to give much thought to an accidental brush against their crotch. And regarding your MIL, any reasonable adult would have mentioned it to you at the time.

 

 

Without knowing you or the full situation, my gut says that this guy has probably been grooming your child for a while. He may not have progressed past groping over clothes, but I think he was probably testing what he could get away with, and your son probably became cognizant enough with the last time to realize something weird was going on (the incident with MIL.)

 

I also think multiple people in this guy's life have red flags going off and are choosing to ignore them. You've had a weird feeling about him for years....that's not something to shrug off. Just like animals, humans can have a "sixth sense" about danger, except humans are the only animals that will get that feeling about someone and then get into an elevator with the person, just to be polite. I would be your MIL has these feelings too, even if she can't put her finger on what exactly. There is a reason the incident stood out in her mind for years. There's a reason she doesn't want to tell him. There's a reason his son doesn't have contact. There's a reason your DH doesn't have much of a relationship with someone who thinks of as a father figure. There's a reason your DH is being weird about the whole situation.

 

I agree with PPs about therapy for your son, the sooner, the better. And I would not worry about starting "drama"- neither. You nor your child asked to be in this position, you're just dealing with it the best way you know how. In the end, worst case scenario, an adult chose to act imprudently with a child (having somewhat inappropriate physical interaction) that was he knew was misconstrued by a child, and chose not to say anything- best case, you are preventing a pedophile from having further access from your child.

 

 

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

Edited February 26, 2016 by meghan.mantz

[angelica]

.below 

 

Edited March 10, 2016 by angelica

[meghan.mantz]

They may be innocent encounters, but I think there is a reason they stand out. Honestly, it could all be a misunderstanding (I don't think it is, but it could be.) But something about all of those events has made you uneasy and I think you need to follow your gut.

 

The playing with the kids stands out to me- if he played for a little while, okay, but a normal adult doesn't prefer the company of children. It's a fine line, and certainly not everyone who plays with children is a pedophile, but the fact that it made you uneasy speaks volumes. And your MIL saying what a great guy he was for doing that could be a trivial comment, but it almost sounds like her justifying his close (and perhaps inappropriate) attention on your son.

[Joanne]

Thanks for chiming in with that! I was going to elaborate on the grooming comment but you did it way better than I could have. I remember watching the episode where oprah interviewed molsters and it really opened my eyes, and I think that aired before our son was even born. Anyways, I maybe should forward her a link to the oprah episode and tell her to watch the episode when he's out of town? Dh thinks that will insult her, because that's implying that he could be one, which in my eyes, he is one, but in her eyes, he's the farthest thing from one. But she may not even be aware of the grooming process and it may open her eyes as well. I am just glad I am aware because had I not known, I may have just viewed all these incidents as innocent

 

That special made me understand that there's people out there with motives that are not pure, but yet appear to be just a really great person. And as I said before, my boys would gravitate to him if they saw him because he'd make sure to act very likable and fun. So I am adamant that he does not see our boys while he's out here because I believe he could pick up where the grooming left off. Or he could choose my younger son as the new target since he is the quiet type, and if he tried to do anything with our oldest, he would speak up, like he did back in 2012 when he "accidentally" touched him while rough housing.

 

When we went to visit dh's family out of state years ago, he was down in the dirt playing cars with our son and building a roadway, while none of the blood relatives cared to even play with our kids, just hang out and talk to them. MIL thought that was so great of him to play with him and talked about how he's such a good guy for doing that, but I didn't think it was admirable of him at all. He didn't need a playmate, he had his little brother.

 

On that same trip they even went down the families zipline together, and he was behind my son. My dh went with our son as well, but that was after he first went. I remember feeling uncomfortable with that situation too and in hindsight, that wasn't necessary since he was old enough to go alone, and went many times alone. But groomers like to find ways to touch kids, so they get used to their touch eh.

 

He also showed him how to shoot a gun, which of course our son thought was so cool. And he was obviously in close contact for that too. And for what it's worth, that's the trip where MIL spanked our son.

 

And then there was a time when they were out on the lake and on the same raft (one of those junky dollar store types) and I'm literally begging my dh to go out there. I was too grossed out by the water to go in myself, there weren't enough rafts for all of us anyways. Really, I didn't want him out there in general because he was not a strong swimmer then, and I was worried about brain eating amoeba! But then seeing them on the same raft was also unsettling to me. They laughed when I mentioned the amoeba and I said it's not a joke, people die from it all the time. So eventually my dh did go out there.

 

Now i'm just recalling things that may or may not be innocent encounters, but they stand out in my mind.

Wait a red hot minute. AFTER your son reported this man molested him you and your husband allowed this man not only access to your family but physical proximity to his victim - your son?

 

Am I reading this right?!

 

And it is not your job to convince MIL or even DH. It is your job to protect your son and take steps to mitigate the impact of what has already happened.

[angelica]

For what its worth, when our son initially told me, I was very confused about the situation and I realized that my gut feelings were not off all along. However,since they were no longer living in the same state, I felt comfort in that and made the choice to not let it destroy our life, and so we dealt with that as best we knew how.There was no way back then that I had the voice to say NO we are not going to be around this person ever again. There is nothing I can do about that now. But again, he has not been around us. MIL has come out many times, but she has not been out here to our home with him since 2012.

 

....

 

Edited March 10, 2016 by angelica

[StephanieZ]

I haven't read all the replies . . .

 

It is theoretically possible that this man was "innocent" and misunderstood . . . Certainly possible. It is well past time for any helpful action by the police or CPS or whoever, especially given that the type of touching was the type that could be misconstrued.

 

A couple things stick out. You say you "can't" cut him out of your life. What the heck? Really??? If you believe this man touched your child inappropriately, you HAVE TO cut him out of your life. No debate. You have to. Or else, you are just as bad as the molester. WORSE, because you are betraying your child.

 

If I believed an adult had inappropriately touched my child, I would cut them out of my life, my family's life, and I'd similarly cut out anyone who stayed in relationship with the SOB. And, of course, I'd throw whatever legal bricks I could at him/her. Those things would be GIVENs. 

 

So, let's say you aren't sure, really if anything really inappropriate happened, but you do know your little child believes it to be the case. In that case, I'd think the reasonable option is to cut him out of my kids and my life 100% but not necessarily demand others do the same. My reasoning here is to protect my child from discomfort and eliminate ANY chance of continued abuse. I'm not throwing bricks or forcing everyone I know to make a choice (him or us) because I am not 100% sure he did anything bad. But, I AM 100% sure that I need to protect my own both from additional abuse and from the fear of abuse and from the devastation of betrayal of a parent not protecting and believing.

 

If for some reason you can't prohibit him from entering your property or coming near your family (say, you don't own your house and he does), then I'd take a trip with my kids far away, to visit relatives or just for fun. But, no way, no how, would I be there to see him for even one second.

 

When I got back from my trip, I'd get to work finding a new place to live that won't require me to allow a probable abuser from being anywhere near my family. 

 

You owe your child protection -- both actual and the SENSE of protection. 

 

 

 

 

[luckymom]

I do not understand what you are confused about.  Who gives a damn about your MIL, her husband, etc.?  And, frankly, if your DH is confused - he needs to get unconfused immediately.  Your SON is your priority.  NOT the thoughts/feelings of others over a matter like molestation.  If you can't stand up for your kid on this, what would it take for you to do hard things on his behalf???  

 

Move.  NEVER let these people around your children again.  Drama?  Seriously?  That accusation influences what you will do to protect your child?

 

Sexual Molestation hurts people deeply and permanently.  It's time to get DRAMATIC AND STAY DRAMATIC.

[Ausmumof3]

Honestly the more you post the worse it sounds. Please find your son a counsellor and possibly yourself just for advice for how to handle it. I think you are going to need all the help you can get. This is going to be hard and you need help to stay strong for your kids

[StephanieZ]

Oh dear g-d, I would never walk into that home again, ever, with him in it. I would not subject my child to having to lay eyes on him.  Dh upset? MIL upset? Do. not. care. One flip. If my dh insisted? I would choose my children over him. Period. 

 

Exactly. This.

 

!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

I needed to do more than like this post.

 

 

The parent's duty to protect their child comes above any other relationship, obligation, convenience, or anything else whatsoever. To me, that is the essence of parenthood. The core of my moral duty to the universe is to nurture and protect my children. Everything else is secondary. 

 

I wouldn't "choose my kid over my husband" if they just didn't get along or whatever . . . But, I would protect my child from ANYONE or ANYTHING and I would expect the same from my spouse. Period. I am sure he'd say the same thing. I could never love or even tolerate a spouse (or other family member for that matter) who didn't similarly choose to protect our children over any other priority. Thankfully, my spouse would be right with me on this . . . I am sure I never could have loved anyone who wouldn't be . . .

[Audrey]

I agree with everyone who has repeated that the child must be protected and kept away from the person in question.

 

It really is that simple an answer to the dilemma.  Children must always be protected, no matter what.  Full stop.

[GAPeachie]

Said gently, from an angle of watching a fallout from the outside: 

 

After seeing the CPS fallout of a mom that didn't report/get counseling for her minor children, I would be DARN SURE that I did everything I could for my children.  Now that you know, you have to make decisions that are above reproach, or YOU may find yourself in some hot water when it is addressed.

 

I understand not wanting to falsely accuse someone, but this is much bigger than an "I think" situation.  Your child has said that he would like to talk to someone.  THIS cannot be ignored.  

 

Edited to add: *I* would do everything I could, not just because of what I saw in the fallout.  But watching the fallout drove that point home, even harder.  EVERY person that knew but didn't do something actively, was called into question.  EV.ER.Y.ONE. 

Edited February 26, 2016 by GAPeachie

[Guest]

What does this mean?

 

I have no choice but to stay strong and live on, and do what I can NOW.

My skin has more cracks in it than it did when our son was born, and I can see that clear as day in pictures.

And as a side note, this whole situation has in my mind, made it near impossible to move forward with us getting even married.

I don't care about that right now, but I do..

but I care more about our kids and just getting through daily life with all of this weighing on us.

 

If he wasn't coming out, I wouldn't have posted this and life would have just gone on,

but he's coming out, and we need to face the storm, as hard as that is! Innocent until proven guilty makes no difference to me,

because I know, horrible things happen all the time, and a good example of that is Jerry Sandusky, who raped a 10 year old! And many others as well.

And I know of other pedos in the media...but that's media, and in real life I know it happens as well.

 

 

 

OP you're saying a lot of contradictory, and just plan non-nonsensical, things. You do not NEED to explain to us what the above means...but let me point something out here.

 

In your posts you have repeatedly made this about everything but your son. I'm reading a whole lotta you, your DH, your MIL...but very little about your victimized child.

 

.....and what you do write is extremely concerning. Not JUST because your son has had a terrible experience....but also because you keep aying things along the lines of "well since he remembers being molested, I guess I need to keep him away from his molester," and, "if my son's moleser weren't coming to visit (for nooo discernable reason, btw) we could all live happily ever after but since he is, we better do something about that...because Sandusky raped boys and I saw a show about grooming before I had kids."...

 

You're all over the place.

 

I think you need to laser-focus everything, EVERYTHING, on doing what is physically and psychologically appropriate for you child. Literally everything else is noise.

 

I am writing this knowing obviously that you can come back and say that this is just how you're writing bt irl you're doing XYZ, but c'mon man. Everything you write you remember another time this dude was probably being inappropriate with your baby. Action is not yet your forte.

 

It is time to change that. NOW. Right now.

 

 

[Annie Anne]

Well he won't be happy to read this thread because he is not happy with me right now. He feels I am taking this to the 10th degree now and feels like this is going to split him away from his family more than he already is. He is an only child, his mom is not going to disown him because of this. It will however create an issue and we will work through it. 

 

Your husband is an adult who is putting his comfort in front of his son's safety.

Your son is a child who is about to learn that his father's comfort is more important than his safety.

 

and, from the minimizing that is going to happen if you don't dealt with head on, he is going to learn that feeling bad about what happened to him makes him wrong.

 

Can you ask your husband if he was a victim of this man? Can it be that he has something to hide?

[Annie Anne]

Well he won't be happy to read this thread because he is not happy with me right now. He feels I am taking this to the 10th degree now and feels like this is going to split him away from his family more than he already is. He is an only child, his mom is not going to disown him because of this. It will however create an issue and we will work through it. 

 

d/p

Edited February 26, 2016 by Annie Anne

[luckymom]

You needed to "face the storm" the moment your son told you about the molestation.  You didn't.   It's time to stop weighing your son's well being against your husband's, MILS' and anyone else's comfort.  Parents who do not protect their children harm them for life.  Your son needs your mother instinct to kick in NOW.

[purplejackmama]

If for some reason you can't prohibit him from entering your property or coming near your family (say, you don't own your house and he does), then I'd take a trip with my kids far away, to visit relatives or just for fun. But, no way, no how, would I be there to see him for even one second.

 

When I got back from my trip, I'd get to work finding a new place to live that won't require me to allow a probable abuser from being anywhere near my family.

 

The man owns the house with her MIL. The OP husband isn't willing to move out. Edited February 27, 2016 by purplejackmama

[Pen]

 

NO. On that trip I am pretty sure I had no idea my son had ever been groped by him, but I always found him to be weird so I listened to my gut and handled things as well as I could at the time. Looking back, for all I know something happened on that trip as well, because I let my guard down in favor of pleasing family, and going out for girl time with my dh's cousins. I said I wanted to stay back and not go, but I was pretty much pressured to go by everyone, and reassured that my 2 boys would be fine. I was younger, not that it makes it matters, but I know myself then and I didn't have the courage to rock the boat. Quite honestly, I needed a break from my mommyhood duties though and being around girls somewhat in age to me was a breathe of fresh air, and considering I was nursing a toddler and felt very disconnected with peers in general I caved to pressure, and I had a good time! But when I came back and my son was crying because grandma spanked him for whatever reason, I was mad at dh for not being around to handle the situation himself. And I was furious for her spanking him to the extend that I basically shut down at that point.

 

And for what its worth, when my son initially told me, I was also very confused about the situation and just told myself from that point on that I had to be overly cautious. I realized in that moment that my gut feelings were not off all along, but since they were no longer living in the same state at that time, I felt comfortable, at least enough to not let it destroy our life, and so we dealt with that, and moved on.

 

Now, given the fact that my son is about to turn 9 and can recall what he initially told me, I can't stomache the thought of anything else happening. I am victim as well, not by this man, but in general so I know and I empathize with whatever emotions he may be experiencing.

 

There was no way back then that I had the voice to say NO we are not going. His mom was, and still is proud of her 2nd home in texas and wanted us to go see it. How on earth is her only child going to say no?! Especially when she was willing to pay for our trip out there and he happened to have the time away from work to go on vac. At the time, I didn't think it was something to rock the boat about.

 

But I know, GOD had a hand in this, I KNOW because I was not going to say anything to mil for fear of it rocking the boat and creating "drama". But the boats rocking now and as much as it sucks, it needed to be dealt with and better late than never. 

 

I still have yet to tell mil that now after our conversation, i have reason to believe it happened more than once, because our sons story does not match hers. That will be hard for her to hear. It's even hard for my dh to hear because in his mind, for all i know, he may be realizing that this is going to change EVERYTHING. And yes, of course it's going to change things. Nobody wants to deal with a situation like this, just like nobody wants to deal with their child being murdered or is dying of cancer.

 

So NO I did not allow him access to our family. But now, I am putting my foot down and expressing myself, mostly to dh which is so sad for him and I feel bad for him as well, but I am older now (31 if that makes a difference to any of you) and in the thick of motherhood. I know more, and so I have to do more, especially when it comes to protecting our boys from a man who I have never felt comfortable around.

 

We were only 22 when he was born, I was by all means "a baby". I graduated college pregnant with our son and I very well could have gotten pregnant while we were in hs, but thank GOD that didn't happen!

 

And I hate to use the word molest, because I don't know for 100% sure what happened, but on that note, I do believe my son 100%, and I view both the mil's recollection and my sons recollection as confirmation that he was FOR SURE GROOMING at bare minimum. BTW we have not seen him since 2012/2013! THANK GOD!! Had he been in town all these years, well, I don't even want to imagine how the dynamics would be.

 

And as I type this, the phillip phillips song  seems so appropriate "There’s a storm ahead. I see it all round me.I feel it in the air.Shake the ground beneath my feet.And I know it’s all a part of me.Did you make a plan.Just to watch it crumble

Now you see yourself. In a mirror that you cannot clean.And it’s all a part of you. Oh my friend. Look how time has changed. The cracks in our skin."

 

I have no choice but to stay strong and live on, and do what I can NOW. My skin has more cracks in it than it did when our son was born, and I can see that clear as day in pictures. And as a side note, this whole situation has in my mind, made it near impossible to move forward with us getting even married. I don't care about that right now, but I do.. but I care more about our kids and just getting through daily life with all of this weighing on us.

 

If he wasn't coming out, I wouldn't have posted this and life would have just gone on, but he's coming out, and we need to face the storm, as hard as that is! Innocent until proven guilty makes no difference to me, because I know, horrible things happen all the time, and a good example of that is Jerry Sandusky, who raped a 10 year old! And many others as well. And I know of other pedos in the media...but that's media, and in real life I know it happens as well.

 

These guys, and most are...didn't get to that point without grooming. It disgusts me, but if his mom and him watched any new programs about pedophiles and the grooming process in general, they would see what I have always seen in this man, who I have known since the age of 16! So I think I have a decent judge of his character, and I know enough now to know I am not wrong to do whatever I can to keep him out of our kids life as much as we possibly can. 

 

I can't just minimize the whole touching over pants thing, even if it was just rough housing, which I don't believe to be the case, but regardless, it stands out in our sons ind as "inappropriate touching" and I will be damned if i let my guard down so much to allow anything else to happen. I can't make my dh understand that or my mil and I don't expect them to really understand honestly, but I do expect them to hear me, and acknowledge what I say, what our son says, and not just brush it aside. 

 

 

I'm not sure what is going on for you. It sounds like maybe you are trying to talk yourself into standing up for your son, and that you find that very, very difficult to do. I am hoping that you are not in some sort of abusive or controlling (perhaps not physical, but maybe financial or emotional) relationship / situation yourself, but it sounds like you may be. And it sounds like you also have unfinished business over past personal events that stop you from really helping, standing up for, and getting help for your son.  At least one of these seems likely to be the case, and perhaps both. People who have been abused in some way are at  risk for further abuse. And that could apply not only to your son, but also to you. It may even be hard to recognize it, or even to be able to understand and recognize "normal."  I hope that you will make an appointment for yourself to get some counseling too.

 

 

What concrete steps have you taken so far to find you son a therapist and make an appointment for him?

 

If you haven't started taking action on that yet, please start in over the weekend asking people you know for referrals, and start making calls on Monday morning to find someone for your son to see and schedule an appointment for you son.  You may need to try a few therapists to find one who will be good for him. 

[JumpyTheFrog]

The comment about it being near impossible to move forward with getting married has confused me. Are you married to your son's father?

[zoobie]

The comment about it being near impossible to move forward with getting married has confused me. Are you married to your son's father?

And who's "DH" versus...I am lost too.

[hjffkj]

She refers to her boyfriend as her dh. He is her childrens father I believe

[zoobie]

If you're not on the lease and not married, I hope you have joint access to the family finances as a SAHM (it seems?) to 2 kids. If getting married has been dangled as a carrot for 9 years and is now being used as a threat to get you to drop what you believe to be the sexual abuse of your child, that is an unhealthy situation. Seeking necessary and requested help for your child should not put you in fear of security or safety.

 

You know that joke about the flood with the punchline of "I sent two boats and a helicopter! What more did you want?" I hope the red flags that pop up in an online summary are not true in reality, and you are okay and able to freely make decisions about your life and your children's lives. Your son's pediatrician should have recommendations for therapists who specialize in sexual abuse victims.

[Tsuga]

This thread is giving me chills.

 

There are two possibilities:

 

1. You are stirring the pot and your child did not actually specifically tell you what you told us he did. That's why you don't sense the urgency. I don't know you however, and I wouldn't jump to that conclusion. I just think it's the only other explanation for your feeling that you can talk your way out of this.

 

2. You are somehow overcome with fear of homelessness (understandable) because your husband pays the bills and is unwilling to give up the free living situation.

 

You have to get out and if you are homeless, SO BE IT. You won't be the first one.

 

Now, it doesn't have to happen this month. This month, you go visit your own people, your mom, whoever. Somehow. You find a way and you tell them. If my neighbor came to me and said what you told me, they'd have a week-long sleepover, no questions asked. You need to find someone for right now.

 

Then, you work on it with your husband.

 

If he is not willing to go within a set period of time with set milestones, like pay a deposit within X paychecks, you do the savings, then you need to leave. He might come to his senses eventually. Let's just hope for that. But you need to go. You WILL find a way. You would not be the first woman to take her children and drive off without anything more than a trunk with a week's worth of clothes and a couple hundred in cash. I promise you, if you even have that, it is a hell of a lot more than many women have left with. This doesn't mean leave your DH at the time. "Hon, I am doing what a mom has to do and we'll be waiting for you when you're ready to leave that house." Fine.

 

But leave. You can do it. Again, give it a bit of time. Solve the short-term problem first, but then move to the long-term issue. You can't just sit there, however, and wait for this guy to come back. He will know you're stuck.

 

This guy sounds like such a problem. I am sorry but I am also telling you that once you decide to act you will find the strength. I promise. So, so many women have. I haven't met a woman, who was not on drugs, who left abuse for her kids, who didn't make it. It was always hard but I haven't met one who didn't come through.

 

Many men couldn't handle the woman leaving, but the women? Yes, they all did it for the kids. My mom did for me, I did for my kids, my partner's mom did for her kids. You CAN do this. Do it.

Edited February 27, 2016 by Tsuga

[eternalsummer]

This thread is giving me chills.

 

There are two possibilities:

 

1. You are stirring the pot and your child did not actually specifically tell you what you told us he did. That's why you don't sense the urgency. I don't know you however, and I wouldn't jump to that conclusion. I just think it's the only other explanation for your feeling that you can talk your way out of this.

 

2. You are somehow overcome with fear of homelessness (understandable) because your husband pays the bills and is unwilling to give up the free living situation.

 

You have to get out and if you are homeless, SO BE IT. You won't be the first one.

 

Now, it doesn't have to happen this month. This month, you go visit your own people, your mom, whoever. Somehow. You find a way and you tell them. If my neighbor came to me and said what you told me, they'd have a week-long sleepover, no questions asked. You need to find someone for right now.

 

Then, you work on it with your husband.

 

If he is not willing to go within a set period of time with set milestones, like pay a deposit within X paychecks, you do the savings, then you need to leave. He might come to his senses eventually. Let's just hope for that. But you need to go. You WILL find a way. You would not be the first woman to take her children and drive off without anything more than a trunk with a week's worth of clothes and a couple hundred in cash. I promise you, if you even have that, it is a hell of a lot more than many women have left with. This doesn't mean leave your DH at the time. "Hon, I am doing what a mom has to do and we'll be waiting for you when you're ready to leave that house." Fine.

 

But leave. You can do it. Again, give it a bit of time. Solve the short-term problem first, but then move to the long-term issue. You can't just sit there, however, and wait for this guy to come back. He will know you're stuck.

 

This guy sounds like such a problem. I am sorry but I am also telling you that once you decide to act you will find the strength. I promise. So, so many women have. I haven't met a woman, who was not on drugs, who left abuse for her kids, who didn't make it. It was always hard but I haven't met one who didn't come through.

 

Many men couldn't handle the woman leaving, but the women? Yes, they all did it for the kids. My mom did for me, I did for my kids, my partner's mom did for her kids. You CAN do this. Do it.

 

 

Agreed, but I don't know that she will have to leave.  I think it is pretty likely (but I could totally be wrong) that the OP has not been completely straight and upfront with her husband about the totality of the situation as she sees it, and the absolute need for a change in living situation.  

 

Sometimes people will take the easy way out if you let them - this is a harder break for the OP's DH to make than it is for the OP, so it makes sense that he is more reluctant and she will have to push for the correct action to be taken.

 

However, it is completely possible that with that insistence and pushing, just saying to DH "I was uncomfortable with the situation before but my weakness allowed me behave incorrectly.  Now I know what has to be done and we must do it," will wake up his sense of parental responsibility as well.

 

I had an unrelated and much much much less dire situation with DS last month when I thought his current school might not be great for him, but I was really reluctant to make a change (the school is kind of in-groupish and had told me it was his only hope, etc.).  It was after getting great advice from this board supporting my DH's desire to withdraw DS from the school that I was able to separate my personal anxiety of social confrontation from the necessity of doing the right thing.

 

Maybe hearing the near-universal response on this board to at the very least never let this person see her son again will give the OP the courage to confront her DH, which may give *him* the courage to stand up to his mother.

Edited February 27, 2016 by ananemone

[StephanieZ]

The man owns the house with her MIL. The OP husband isn't willing to move out.

 

And so? OP needs to change this. 

[Harriet Vane]

I think you need to laser-focus everything, EVERYTHING, on doing what is physically and psychologically appropriate for you child. Literally everything else is noise.

 

 

 

:iagree:  :iagree:  :iagree: